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Lucario vs Monkey D. Luffy

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Well, as it was explained in the previous "Luffy vs a Pokemon" matches, Luffy's stronger in both forms, but the highest gap is from when he's G4 which is 2.5x baseline (which most Megas scale above anyway, making the difference almost meaningless in the fight).

To make this easier I'm going to list what can Luffy do against Lucario's moves and abilities:

  • Justified: Luffy has no attacks that are dark in nature, unless "playing dirty" is considered dark. This isn't his main in-character way to go anyway.
  • Adaptability: If he doesn't have a way to bypass Luffy's Blunt Force Resistance (and its enhanced version when using G4) this won't help much.
  • Force Palm: I'm not sure what's this, tbf. It feels more like muscular paralysis but Lucario shouldn't be able to tag Luffy's PP because his are made of rubber and as such should bounce back.
  • Copycat: Can't copy Gomu Gomu.
  • Focus Punch: Luffy won't wait for it, or he could just dodge.
  • Laser Focus: While might be able to bypass Haki's defenses, it won't bypass the BF Resistance because it's not a stat boost.
  • Foresight: Might be good against Logia users, but Luffy isn't one.
  • Detect: Precognition is good, but Luffy has a more consistent version which doesn't lower its effectiveness if used in a constant basis.
  • Metal Claw: This could damage Luffy, but Haki increase the Durability and he could block it with no repercussions.
  • Feint: Good method to bypass Luffy's Future Sight, but it's a one-move thing and can't be constantly spammed. Plus, bypassing Precognition doesn't mean Luffy can't dodge without it.
  • Quick Guard: Explain please.
  • Me First: Same with Copycat. Lucario could mimic the move, but not the attack itself like a Giant Pistol.
  • Against Stat amplifiers and debuffers: Luffy hasn't the same amount of buffs to compensate, but even if Lucario becomes faster his Haki will have him one step ahead. At worst Lucario end up being some stronger than Luffy.
  • Mind Reader: This is the best way to cancel Luffy.
These are the in my opinion more problematics moves Lucario has.

On the other side, Luffy resists most of Lucario's arsenal to a good degree and the part he doesn't (like claws and bites) can be no-sell with Haki, has some amps to compensate even if debuffed, a much better precognition, flight, and the potential to deal great damage with Red Hawk. I also think his stamina is much better than Lucario since his feats and scaling is more solid and impressive (judging by the profiles).

So Luffy 6-7/10. This isn't an easy fight, but Luffy's resistances, advantages and abilities should give him the win.
 
Actually Lucario matches in precog via being well...Lucario. Natural aura based precog exclusive to the species. Foresight can bypas the blunt force resistance of being non corporeal so Luffy's physiology shouldn't hold up. And what's stopping Lucario from using Gomu Gomu techniques? Pretty sure there's much more versatile and weird moves that can be copied by it.
 
@cal howard Because Lucario needs mimicry in a DNA scale for use Devil Fruits Abilities.
 
Luffy's precog is way better. He had it against Katakuri and in order to match him he needed to evolve his precog into Future Sight.

Non-corporeal isn't the same as Luffy's physiology. You could hit a Soul while being unable to touch an Elemental Intangibility user because the sources are different. Luffy's body isn't intangible in any way.
 
Calaca Vs said:
Luffy's precog is way better. He had it against Katakuri and in order to match him he needed to evolve his precog into Future Sight.
Click to expand...
Don't really see what makes it better...
 
Rei Rubro said:
@cal howard Because Lucario needs mimicry in a DNA scale for use Devil Fruits Abilities.
Click to expand...
Why's that? I don't think that translates nearly as well to other verses. Pretty sure stretching is much less difficult than copying spatial manipulation, mind manipulation, or power nullification.
 
If the source of the power is different then it doesn't matter.

With that being said, Lucario could copy that, but can he keep the move long enough to actually make a difference? IIRC Pokemon moves are one-time thing that is activated when they use them.
 
I thought we had the rule where if they haven't shown feats of being able to copy moves whose source is from genetics, then they can't copy it
 
Can Lucario gain resistance to blunt force due to being a steel type? Or is that that too much of a stretch? I am aware that Fighting is super effective against steel.
 
@Calaca. Scratch what I said about precog. The only precog comes from Detect. Lucario just has reeeeally good natural mind reading that works like precog.

But with what you said about copying, Me First is one-time, but as long as no other move interrupts it, Copycat can allow multiple steals of Luffy's moves.
 
@Cal I didn't get the "no other moves interrupt it" part. Luffy's moves or Lucario's moves?
 
Copycat works so that it copies the last move used, whether it's Luffy or Lucario.
 
So... Lucario could copy his move. Precious.

I'm still doubtful about Lucario being able to copy a DNA based move.
 
Similar moves (Mimic in particular) have canonically worked on Darkrai's Dark Void, which is both intrinsic to Darkrai only and tier 2.

It also allows Lucario to grow things like vines and gears and copy Conversion which changes its biology.
 
Canonically in what way? Anime? Manga? A movie?

At the same time, Mimic can't copy moves like Transform or Metronome, with the former being directly related to genetic for obvious reasons. Sketch is another move it can't copy. The same goes for Copycat that can't copy those moves.

Shell Trap which is obviously a move that requires having a shell can't be copied. The shell is similar to Luffy's physiology.

And he couldn't copy Observation Haki since it can't copy detect.

So I don't think he's able to copy every move, and some of them are directly related to DNA.
 
In a manga. Darkrai rages and spams DV. Mime Jr. uses Mimic. Mime Jr. throws it back and Darkrai. Darkrai goes night-night.

But it can copy every wing move. Or again, Gear Grind. Or Peck. Heck, it works on Minimize and Bulk Up and Mind Blown, all of which are size changing body control like Luffy.

Lucario doesn't really need to copy OH when he has several counters.
 
How is that not an outlier?

For some reason Mew can use wing moves as well, but knowing the ability of most Pokemon to project energy and shape it I wouldn't be surprised. The other moves are strange cases, but we'd need feats outside the game mechanics, because in the games Doduo can no-sell an earthquake because he can "fly".

He has one or two moves that can counter it, yes, but it's not consistent.
 
Lucario's existence in general counters it given with aura he knows everything Luffy's thinking and every move he's gonna make. Plus Lucario's debatably more combat savvy than Luffy, given the prestige of the Lucario Rank (even a master Alakazam isn't there yet), train literally out of the egg, and the Pokémon being regularly able to keep up with Machamp. I don't doubt exploitation, especially when it's main attack is homing balls of doom.
 
Fair enough. I still think Luffy should win for the reasons I gave. Future Sight is what's countering Telepathy and not the opposite. Plus, Luffy knows how to prevent that by attacking without him knowing where his attacks will go.
 
Doesn't Luffy have to concentrate on order to get the full benefits of OH's future sight though? Also doesn't help as it doesn't counter aura. Not only are stray hits a flawed strategy, it won't matter because Lucario will still know where they go. Everything has aura. Ghosts, logs, robots, gods, etc.
 
"Every attack has (Word I can't remember), Luffy" were Rayleigh's words. He attacking without knowing literally pummeled Enel who was able to overcome the same Type of precognition. He can't know where Luffy attacks if Luffy just ricochets his arms without him knowing.

Yes, he has to be concentrated, but it's not like its hard for him.
 
Luffy's arms still have aura. This is the same Pokémon that can sense dead logs falling at him with his eyes closed and dodges them.
 
Just to clarify things here in case something was missed. Is this a Luffy key that can use Fire attacks? If so, that's a problem.
 
Lucario is weak to Fire-type attacks due to being a Steel-type. That's problematic unless Lucario can knock Luffy out early on, which I kinda doubt he can.
 
Luffy doesn't start with Red Hawk thought and Lucario can see the attack coming since it's not instantaneous.
 
I see. I'm still indecisive here...I'll just wait for more input, since I'm not exactly familiar with OP power levels and ability mechanics.
 
Luffy leads with Red Hawk pretty often and it seems like Red Hawk is Luffy's go to attack in Gear 2nd nowadays. Basically whenever Luffy knows that an opponent is strong, he'll lead with Red Hawk.
 
Both sides will likely be reading each other's opening moves, so I think it's more of how each side will respond after the first strikes.
 
Luffy has dealt with precognition before Time-skip, that's nothing new for him. Take Enel vs Luffy for example: Luffy completely outsmarted him and Observation Haki has been stated many times to be able to read your Mind (Sarotobi aka big dango guy displayed this). Furthermore, DF cannot be copied perfectly since they're considered as "Curse", and even if Lucario copies it, Gum Gum no mi needs 10 years of training and Gear techniques require you to have "Ruber body"; Otherwise you just kills yourself with it. Luffy should take this via Luffy always passively using Future Sight, Red Hawk, and he can still use Haki to defend himself if necessary
 
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