Mandrakk in The Unexpected

[Elizio33]

Since The Unexpected series is finished, should we add this version of Mandrakk? While apparently not as powerful as his previous version in Final Crisis, he could still devour the positice matter multiverse and has stated that Barbatos could hardly chain him. And since his change by Neon, he can no longer feed on the Bleed and positive matter only dark matter will sustain him. So, what would be the tier of this version of Mandrakk?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

2A

 

[Elizhaa]

I think it would be better if this another profile for Mandrakk since it is another series and the power difference is tremendous here.

A small part of wonder if it is an outlier that he so weaken.

 

[Elizio33]

Maybe another key for him?

 

[Elizhaa]

Maybe another key for him?

It is a continuity?

The previous version is Final Crisis; this version is Unexpected series. I think these differences warrant a new profile now since it is two different versions.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know. Here are some members that you can ask to comment here:

Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Reppuzan, Hykuu, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon.

 

[Hykuu]

I'm fine with that, he should be 2-A.

 

[Antvasima]

What should his profile say as a justification for the new statistics?

 

[Hykuu]

what Elizio said, also the fact he fought a multiversal being in the comic.

 

[Antvasima]

Devouring 52 universes is just 2-C, devouring the infinite universes in the Dark Multiverse is 2-A. If he stalemated Barbatos, that is also 2-A, but I don't remember such a confrontation.

 

[Hykuu]

"Devouring 52 universes is just 2-C"

 

[Antvasima]

The point is that you are scaling him from devouring the lower multiverse, not the higher degrees of reality.

 

[Hykuu]

"

The point is that you are scaling him from devouring the lower multiverse, not the higher degrees of reality."

Ant, you and matt have already argued over this a dozen times, 52 universes isn't the only thing threatened unless explicitly stated. "higher degrees" infinite realities are no different than the 52 ones here lol, just because they aren't mentioned doesn't automatically disclude them.

 

[Antvasima]

2-A specifically refers to infinite universes. We cannot assume that Mandrakk is capable of devouring them unless specifically stated.

We might be able to scale him from stating that Barbatos could barely chain him though, but even that is questionable given that low-scale characters such as Hawkman, Neon, and Bad Samaritan were explicitly shown as almost able to match him.

 

[Hykuu]

"

2-A specifically refers to infinite universes. We cannot assume that Mandrakk is capable of devouring them unless specifically stated."

>" 52 universes isn't the only thing threatened unless explicitly stated. "higher degrees" infinite realities are no different than the 52 ones here lol, just because they aren't mentioned doesn't automatically disclude them."

Ok and Superman was capable of making the spectre bleed, what is your point?

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure that we can assume that Grant Morrison intended the Monitor-sphere to be infinite-dimensional in the first place, just because J.M. DeMatteis has referenced infinite dimensions in his canon. They tend to contradict each other quite a lot. For example, DeMatteis also thinks that The Presence is the supreme being in DC, whereas Morrison think that it is the Overvoid.

 

[Antvasima]

The point is that if we are going to give Mandrakk new statistics based on this story, which I have read through, he did not seem portrayed at anywhere near a 2-A level within it. In fact, I don't know if his then current scale of power was ever referenced.

 

[Hykuu]

I am not sure that we can assume that Grant Morrison intended the Monitor-sphere to be infinite-dimensional in the first place, just because J.M. DeMatteis has referenced infinite dimensions in his canon. They tend to contradict each other quite a lot. For example, DeMatteis also thinks that The Presence is the supreme being in DC, whereas Morrison think that it is the Overvoid.

why does this matter lol


"he did not seem to be portrayed at a 2-A level"


>was going to devour every universe >a dozen feeding on all of creation statements >fighting multiversal beings >barbatos scaling

just because he was getting manhandled by solar system level characters doesn't mean much considering the hundrends of outliers which follow the logic of this feat.

 

[Antvasima]

Stop saying "lol" constantly. It makes you sound like a disrespectful immature troll.

Again, the point is that you want to insert new statistics based on this story, and we have nothing concrete to scale by here except getting manhandled by characters that are here portrayed at far below solar system level.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps we could simply insert a footnote saying: "This profile covers Mandrakk as he was presented during the "Final Crisis" event, not his enormously weaker representation in "The Unexpected" miniseries."

 

[Antvasima]

I have done so. Should we close this thread?

 

[Hykuu]

did anyone agree to you doing that?

 

[Antvasima]

It isn't a statistics change, just a footnote explanation, so it isn't really a big deal.

 

[Hykuu]

It isn't a statistics change, just a footnote explanation, so it isn't really a big deal.

the entire point of this thread is to make a entire key instead of a note.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if others disagree, we can change it later. However, as it is, I think that giving Mandrakk an extra key seems silly, given that we have nothing concrete to properly scale him from, other than being defeated by a bunch of relatively low-level superhumans, along with the Monitor sphere suddenly being treated as regular 3D space.

 

[AndrewBennet]

Mandrakk himself confirmed that they are infinite universes beyond 52

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but where is the evidence that he was presented as capable of destroying infinite universes in this comicbook story.

 

[AndrewBennet]

He is referred as a threat that could eradicate all the universes ( creation )

 

[Antvasima]

I would appreciate a scan please.

Also, the entire local cluster of 52 universes at once, one at a time, or the entire Dark Multiverse of infinite universes?

 

[Hykuu]

"or the entire Dark Multiverse of infinite universes?"

????????????????????

 

[Antvasima]

Wasn't the Dark Multiverse created by Barbatos referred to as containing infinite universes?

 

[Hykuu]

who said that statement andrew was talking about was referring to the dark multiverse and not the basic multiverse?

 

[Antvasima]

The basic multiverse is usually referred to as the 52 universe cluster.

The point is that without specifications we do not know how many universes that would be destroyed, how fast, or by what method. Meaning that an extra statistics key would be meaningless.

As such, I am getting very tired of this pointless argument, and would much prefer to close this thread.

 

[Hykuu]

Ant I've already told you, You and matt have already debated over this countless times and I am a bit confused as to why you are still using this argument, 52 Universes isn't even a thing anymore.

 

[Antvasima]

It is definitely a thing every time that Grant Morrison's Multiversity map of the 52 local cluster universes is used. There are an infinite number of clusters outside of that, yes, but only the local cluster was referenced during the Metal event, as a drop in the ocean compared to the Dark Multiverse, and in fact, in the latest version of DC continuity, it seems like the Dark Multiverse now is the actual greater multiverse.

 

[Antvasima]

In either case, we do not know for a fact what was referenced without further specifications, and Mandrakk in this story also had extremely unimpressive showings, so an extra statistics key has nothing concrete to be based on.

Anyway, I am extremely tired, busy, and stressed out, and do not have any more time to waste on this nonsense. I definitely want to close this thread as soon as possible.

 

[Hykuu]

Can you not even wait for others opinions?

And can you stop making double posts? just edit it into your previous comment

But really I am just neutral on this so i'll just go with what the others agree on

 

[Antvasima]

You are the only one commenting here, and the double posts are to ensure that others get update notifications about new content. They are not a big deal.

 

[Elizio33]

Since you are not sure about this version of Mandrakk being 2-A. Maybe "Likely 2-A for given a some trouble to Barbatos to chain him. Could work?

 

[Hykuu]

"

You are the only one commenting here,"

>nobody contacted the others, yet

"and the double posts are to ensure that others get update notifications about new content. They are not a big deal."

One is enough, I get 2 notifications instead which isn't needed for anyone.