- 15,700
- 12,022
Lucifer profile kinda stinky. Gonna rework its statistics and add some abilities
Addressing the former is easy: Satan has many avatars and names (forgive the various pics, just look at the one named "Multiple Selves") so minor differences in personality and big ones in appearance don't really matter. Hell, even "Satan" is just a name he picked up.
As for the latter, that statement comes from an old Defenders run (Defenders Vol 1 Ch 111) that has had various bits retconned afterwards. Namely, the fact that Mephisto and other Hell Lords are just avatars of the real Satan (First scan). That clearly doesn't work with modern lore which sees them as equals. I'm not saying that everything from that issue is useless but that bit certainly is considering that in more recent times he has indeed claimed to be the Lucifer cast down from heaven and all that jazz. His statement was even confirmed by an archangel, although I'd wager some other lore negates that (As additional proof, Lucifer is also semi-confirmed to be that Lucifer in GR Vol 6). Either way, whether he actually is or isn't doesn't actually matter here, just that he's claimed it.
So, with Marduk = Lucifer (Not necessarily the angel cast down from heaven, just the demon who goes by Lucifer in Ghost Rider Vol 6) hopefully confirmed, what does this mean for the profile?
Currently our H.L. profiles are formatted pretty weirdly, some have their Earth and Hell stats in the same key without distinction, some split it in two keys. Personally I think it should be one key (since it's not two different states of the character at different points in time, just a variation of power, and there's no variation in abilities), but one like this:
"Tier: Varies. At least 4-B, up to 2-C. at least 2-C, possibly 2-A in Hell" is what I'm proposing. Keep in mind I'm not making any actual changes, this is all using already accepted statistics, just organizing them a little better. There is one fairly minor upgrade though.
Likely Infinite Stamina in Hell, based off Daimon stating that, in his own realm, he could literally fight forever, before confirming that he'd be just fine after years of fighting. Keep in mind Daimon is incredibly knowledgeable on demonic stuff to Dr. Strange levels, he would know. And at the same time he isn't even a Hell Lord here, he's weaker and rules over a much smaller amount of land so actual Hell Lords should be superior to this.
The Devil's in the Details
First off though, Marvel Database splits Lucifer and Satan/Marduk Kurios, and I don't agree with that. MD might be the only source of information some people have on these guys since I'd wager Son of Satan runs are relatively obscure, so I'll explain. As I understand it, the reason they believe that they're split is, first off, the different names, and secondly, the fact that Satan has once stated he is not the fallen angel, while Lucifer does claim the opposite.Addressing the former is easy: Satan has many avatars and names (forgive the various pics, just look at the one named "Multiple Selves") so minor differences in personality and big ones in appearance don't really matter. Hell, even "Satan" is just a name he picked up.
As for the latter, that statement comes from an old Defenders run (Defenders Vol 1 Ch 111) that has had various bits retconned afterwards. Namely, the fact that Mephisto and other Hell Lords are just avatars of the real Satan (First scan). That clearly doesn't work with modern lore which sees them as equals. I'm not saying that everything from that issue is useless but that bit certainly is considering that in more recent times he has indeed claimed to be the Lucifer cast down from heaven and all that jazz. His statement was even confirmed by an archangel, although I'd wager some other lore negates that (As additional proof, Lucifer is also semi-confirmed to be that Lucifer in GR Vol 6). Either way, whether he actually is or isn't doesn't actually matter here, just that he's claimed it.
So, with Marduk = Lucifer (Not necessarily the angel cast down from heaven, just the demon who goes by Lucifer in Ghost Rider Vol 6) hopefully confirmed, what does this mean for the profile?
Statistics
Now I know I've been talking about the fusion until now, but the stats here don't actually have anything to do with it. Simply put, the statistics on our profile are... bad. Like, deletion-worthy bad. From the top:- Undead Host
- Fine for the most part, I'm not a Ghost Rider guy so idk if he's actually 4-B in this issue but I'm not putting it into question.
- True Form
- This key should not exist at all. The "true form" that Earth's reality could not handle is really just his form in Hell, Hell Lords become weaker on Earth, that's a universal thing among them. So this key's statistics should just be in the "In Hell" key, but I'm gonna address them here.
- 2-C: No. The universe being unable to handle his body is not a matter of sheer AP but even if it was it wouldn't be a 2-C feat at all. The "nobody else could destroy him" thing makes no sense considering the sheer amount of people stronger than Ghost Rider in 616 Earth. He should be comparable to other Hell Lords tho so 2-C stays anyway.
- 2-A: Not superior to other Hell Lords since the whole "Earth can't handle him" thing is universal. Should be comparable though so again, no actual drop in statistics, albeit he'll be a bit lower in scaling than he is now.
- Immeasurable LS: "The Universe couldn't host him due to how powerful he was" what? I don't see the relation. Should be Unknown.
- Immeasurable Speed: "Completely transcends the Space-Time continuum of Earth-616" where are you even getting that? Just scale him to Mephisto and the gang again.
- Hell Form
- Already addressed that so I'll just say that his on Earth statistics (cause he can appear on Earth just like all other Hell Lords, he'll just be weaker, the AP scans on this profile basically say that already) should be 4-B/2-C, again scaling off the Lords of Hell.
- He also should have an "avatars" key that's 4-B for being able to fight Daimon Hellstrom. As for why that key should exist...
Powers and Abilities
Well I'm not gonna talk about every single abiity I wanna say this guy's got like 50 appearances. So here you go here's the sandbox, Satan P&A on top (That's where his Avatar Creation is detailed), mostly finalized profiles for his kids under that if you're curious, they're not part of this CRT but I don't feel like moving them.Hell Lords
Now I promise this isn't a stealthy attempt at passing some huge upgrade, it's some very minor stuff.Currently our H.L. profiles are formatted pretty weirdly, some have their Earth and Hell stats in the same key without distinction, some split it in two keys. Personally I think it should be one key (since it's not two different states of the character at different points in time, just a variation of power, and there's no variation in abilities), but one like this:
"Tier: Varies. At least 4-B, up to 2-C. at least 2-C, possibly 2-A in Hell" is what I'm proposing. Keep in mind I'm not making any actual changes, this is all using already accepted statistics, just organizing them a little better. There is one fairly minor upgrade though.
Likely Infinite Stamina in Hell, based off Daimon stating that, in his own realm, he could literally fight forever, before confirming that he'd be just fine after years of fighting. Keep in mind Daimon is incredibly knowledgeable on demonic stuff to Dr. Strange levels, he would know. And at the same time he isn't even a Hell Lord here, he's weaker and rules over a much smaller amount of land so actual Hell Lords should be superior to this.
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