Mass Effect calculations

[VersusJunkie54]

Presently I am occupied with Halo revisions, but I intend to tackle Mass Effect in good time. I went over the calcs and while some seemed to be legit, others had issues. This verse has a notable amount of uncalculated anti-feats but that's a discussion for a proper CRT. I am making this thread so I can get calc group opinions and make sense of some calculations, especially the ones that came from that external forum site.

1: Heavy Weapon Calculations. 8-B+

I have no idea what I am even looking at in this calculation. It seems like they were using some wanked/obsolete measure for human incineration and also an explosion radius? Worse, whatever scans or videos the calculations are linked to no longer function. I attempted to load them and after a full five minutes got only errors back. It also doesn't help that this external forum and the links inside constantly try to bounce me to some malicious website.

I am near-certain these calculations are wanked/obsolete. I have no idea how they even arrived at this result.

2: Massively Hypersonic Calculation.

Putting aside the fact that even if this is legit, it is likely an outlier, this external forum calc is busted for similar reasons. I cannot figure out what they were calculating as the links are busted, at least in my browser. I assume it is referring to this video, but I think it is pretty clear that this is blatant aim dodging. Vega clearly is not intercepting and evading these shots mid-stride, he is strafing and his enemy is missing him. We don't calculate characters strafing from oncoming gunfire as supersonic no? That's aim dodging. Honestly I have no idea why this was ever accepted.

3: Biotic power calc. High 8-C

The width of the wall is blatantly wanked. You can notice at the scan it for some reason measures this big gap all the way across when the actual wall panel is clearly much thinner. At best, you could say that it is hollow. Again, no idea why this was accepted. But I suppose it doesn't matter that much as biotics have another legit High 8-C feat. That too could have issues though.

4: Rock destruction calc. 9-A.

This blatantly should not have been accepted imo. It assumes rock when the entry provided stated that the rocks are "brittle obsidian".

Thoughts? Also, it may not be a bad idea to recalculate any feats from other verses that are presently hosted on that external forum.

 

[Stillwinston]

ME in general is needing more love tbh. While we're discussing possible AP issues I have had one with the fact that ME's kinetic barriers are supposedly tier 8 when really they seem to be not that, like heck I remember Garrus's shields getting overwhelmed in ME2 by that gunship iirc. There's also instances where we see shields take damage from gunfire, like in the bring down the sky mission too.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

ME in general is needing more love tbh.

Once I'm through with Halo, I intend to do just that.

While we're discussing possible AP issues I have had one with the fact that ME's kinetic barriers are supposedly tier 8 when really they seem to be not that, like heck I remember Garrus's shields getting overwhelmed in ME2 by that gunship iirc. There's also instances where we see shields take damage from gunfire, like in the bring down the sky mission too.

You are correct, but it actually gets worse.

I have seen Shepard in full armor get injured, and KO'ed by 9-B+ explosions, and that's even without considering the inverse square law.

There is a legit calc for Mass Effect small arms that places them at 9-B+, and those can quite easily and quickly wear down Kinetic barriers. Shepard even considered a bomb that generated an explosion the size of a prison cell a threat.

I remember a scripted event where a Brute pulverizes a Concrete wall, and those things can body Shepard, and Krogans in close quarters. There is certainly more to consider as well.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The OP looks pretty reasonable; and yeah. I knew a long time ago that the ME pages look rather messy.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

ose it doesn't matter that much as biotics have another legit High 8-C fe

Look like that calc hasn’t been accepted, but at least, it is usable

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Look like that calc hasn’t been accepted, but at least, it is usable

I'll submit it to the Calc Group along with other calculations I have planned for ME once I finish with a challenging Halo calc I'm doing right now.

The OP looks pretty reasonable; and yeah. I knew a long time ago that the ME pages look rather messy.

I cannot promise that Mass Effect will actually be downgraded after I investigate, and calculate, but the verse needs a revision bad.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will look into the calculations at first availability.

 

[Stillwinston]

Once I'm through with Halo, I intend to do just that.

You are correct, but it actually gets worse.

I have seen Shepard in full armor get injured, and KO'ed by 9-B+ explosions, and that's even without considering the inverse square law.

There is a legit calc for Mass Effect small arms that places them at 9-B+, and those can quite easily and quickly wear down Kinetic barriers. Shepard even considered a bomb that generated an explosion the size of a prison cell a threat.

I remember a scripted event where a Brute pulverizes a Concrete wall, and those things can body Shepard, and Krogans in close quarters. There is certainly more to consider as well.

While we're here what's the thoughts on the Drack calc?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Thoughts about Mass Effects Small Arms having Relativistic Muzzle Velocities?

Relativistic Mass Effect

So, I'm pretty sure that Mass Accelerator is is fired at relatively low relativistic, or at relativistic speeds. (See Mass Accelerator) Kai Leng can sorta dodge some incoming fire.

vsbattles.com

Glossary of Terms - Mass Effect: Legendary Edition Guide - IGN

This section of our Mass Effect Legendary Edition guide details the Codex Entries for the Glossary of Terms. This information is taken straight from the games,

www.ign.com

My concern is that the Glossary doesn't seem to discern whether it refers to Starship Grade Mass Accelerators or Infantry Grade Mass Accelerators

But I believe it should only apply to Starship Grade Mass Accelerators since the older Everest Class Dreadnought Main Guns are capable of Sub-Relativistic muzzle velocities

Mass Accelerators - Mass Effect: Legendary Edition Guide - IGN

This section of our Mass Effect Legendary Edition guide details the Codex Entries for Mass Accelerators. This information is taken straight from the games,

www.ign.com

Starships - Mass Effect: Legendary Edition Guide - IGN

This section of our Mass Effect Legendary Edition guide details the Codex Entries for Starships. This information is taken straight from the games, allowing

www.ign.com

So with that in mind, nothing should scale to Relativistic Speeds except Reaper Main Guns since they're the epitome of Mass Effect tech (and also described as "accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light"), and likely the Thanix Cannon since it's the reverse engineering of a Reaper's Main Gun , and possibly Kilimanjaro Class Dreadnought Main Guns and Council species' equivalent Dreadnoughts' Main Guns

 

[VersusJunkie54]

While we're here what's the thoughts on the Drack calc?

It seems alright, but it is a bit blurry and I intend to investigate the actual width, and material more closely.

Thoughts about Mass Effects Small Arms having Relativistic Muzzle Velocities?

Relativistic Mass Effect

So, I'm pretty sure that Mass Accelerator is is fired at relatively low relativistic, or at relativistic speeds. (See Mass Accelerator) Kai Leng can sorta dodge some incoming fire.

vsbattles.com

Glossary of Terms - Mass Effect: Legendary Edition Guide - IGN

This section of our Mass Effect Legendary Edition guide details the Codex Entries for the Glossary of Terms. This information is taken straight from the games,

www.ign.com

My concern is that the Glossary doesn't seem to discern whether it refers to Starship Grade Mass Accelerators or Infantry Grade Mass Accelerators

This is something to talk about. We know that Mass Effect Starships save the Reapers and Thanix Cannons. So Human, Turian, etc ships get Sub-Relativistic attack speed for firing at 0.013c, and Reaper weapons firing at a "fraction" of the speed of light. How fast exactly is hard to say, but I think Baseline Relativistic is a reasonable assumption.

I found this from the ME wiki regarding small arms.

"In Mass Effect, to generate ammunition a weapon shaves a projectile the size of a sand grain from a dense block of metal contained within the weapon's body. The projectile is launched at supersonic velocities by decreasing its mass in a mass effect field. Thousands of these tiny rounds can be produced from a single ammunition block. Ammunition is never a concern because of this, but managing the weapon's internal heat is; if a weapon is fired too rapidly, heat will build up inside of the weapon and it will overheat, forcing the operator to stop firing long enough for the weapon to disperse that heat buildup."

If this is accurate, then MHS Mass Effect is for sure dead in the water.

Unfortunately the actual Codex is not giving specific information, it doesn't even specify the size of ME bullets aside from being "tiny".

So with that in mind, nothing should scale to Relativistic Speeds except Reaper Main Guns since they're the epitome of Mass Effect tech (and also described as "accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light"), and likely the Thanix Cannon since it's the reverse engineering of a Reaper's Main Gun , and possibly Kilimanjaro Class Dreadnought Main Guns and Council species' equivalent Dreadnoughts' Main Guns

I wouldn't go so far as saying the Kilimanjaro's gun is possibly Relativistic given we have a blatant statement for its speed, and nothing known that contradicts that.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I wouldn't go so far as saying the Kilimanjaro's gun is possibly Relativistic given we have a blatant statement for its speed, and nothing known that contradicts that.

What's the statement for the Kilimanjaro Class' Main Gun Muzzle Velocity?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

What's the statement for the Kilimanjaro Class' Main Gun Muzzle Velocity?

To be fair, I did wrongly assume it was the same as an Everest Class, but I think it is fair to say that the Thanix cannon is likely Relativistic.

Otherwise, if anyone knows some Mass Effect things that should be calculated, send them my way.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/s/3pJGKuryhu

Here is a respect thread for Commander Shepherd.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

"In Mass Effect, to generate ammunition a weapon shaves a projectile the size of a sand grain from a dense block of metal contained within the weapon's body. The projectile is launched at supersonic velocities by decreasing its mass in a mass effect field.

So is 377.3 or 857 meters per second (Supersonic) allowed to be used as assumed velocities?

Unfortunately the actual Codex is not giving specific information, it doesn't even specify the size of ME bullets aside from being "tiny".

At least it can't be literally "grain of sand" size, as 1 Grain or approximately 65 Milligrammes at 857 meters per second only generates 23.87 joules (10-CBelow Average Human Level)

 

[VersusJunkie54]

So is 377.3 or 857 meters per second (Supersonic) allowed to be used as assumed velocities?

I suppose? In the absence of any other information

At least it can't be literally "grain of sand" size, as 1 Grain or approximately 65 Milligrammes at 857 meters per second only generates 23.87 joules (10-CBelow Average Human Level)

For these projectiles to do damage comparable to even modern bullets (ME small arms are much more powerful as we know), they would need to be moving at 7881.82 meters per second, Hypersonic+ to even match 2019 joules which is the output of the AK-47 as I recall.

That figure is actually believable given what we know of ME small arms, but I am pretty sure this is against wiki rules, and obviously using the weapons' legit 9-B+ feat in Andromeda to scale the speed would be calc stacking.

 

[Stillwinston]

Bump?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

The blog is incomplete but I made some calcs here.

 

[Stillwinston]

Nice nice, while on the subject I was thinking about a change for Shep's profile. Mainly in regards to Stamina, which only has this vague reasoning

Stamina: Superhuman (Considering Shepard does countless missions to save the world and with only a few short periods of rest)

I would propose something like this perhaps

Stamina: Superhuman (Shepard is a graduate of the N7 Program, which included training periods that took over 20 hours per day with little rest and food in hostile territory. Is superior to Garrus, who spent over 24 hours in a one man siege against several mercenary bands without any signs of fatigue. Can take part in prolonged, intense firefights and missions without any showing of tiredness.)

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Nice nice, while on the subject I was thinking about a change for Shep's profile. Mainly in regards to Stamina, which only has this vague reasoning

Stamina: Superhuman (Considering Shepard does countless missions to save the world and with only a few short periods of rest)

I would propose something like this perhaps

Stamina: Superhuman (Shepard is a graduate of the N7 Program, which included training periods that took over 20 hours per day with little rest and food in hostile territory. Is superior to Garrus, who spent over 24 hours in a one man siege against several mercenary bands without any signs of fatigue. Can take part in prolonged, intense firefights and missions without any showing of tiredness.)

That is much better, save it for the future CRT.

 

[Stillwinston]

Yeah I got like a giant ass skill feat list for Shepard in the past gonna need to bring it over lmao

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Yeah I got like a giant ass skill feat list for Shepard in the past gonna need to bring it over lmao

Noice

 

[Stillwinston]

Yeah Shep's got some cracked feats and scales above others who got some. Garrus doing that 24hr siege and managing to 1v1 a gunship during that, Thane having a list of ways to 1v1 people in cqc including Krogans. Shep and co being superior to Asari Commandos that have decades of combat experience at least etc

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Yeah Shep's got some cracked feats and scales above others who got some. Garrus doing that 24hr siege and managing to 1v1 a gunship during that, Thane having a list of ways to 1v1 people in cqc including Krogans. Shep and co being superior to Asari Commandos that have decades of combat experience at least etc

I will be frank that I am not as knowledgeable about Mass Effect as I am about Halo, so I will need help to source feats to be quantified, and calculated. Respect threads only index so much.

 

[Stillwinston]

I'll take a look around, we might be able to procure some feats from the comics and audio books they are regarded as canon last I checked (The first novel is actually highkey good as a prequel to 1)

 

[Tomfer]

I will be frank that I am not as knowledgeable about Mass Effect as I am about Halo, so I will need help to source feats to be quantified, and calculated. Respect threads only index so much.

Yeah, I can help you with that. And your blog seems fine for now.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I have no idea what I am even looking at in this calculation. It seems like they were using some wanked/obsolete measure for human incineration and also an explosion radius? Worse, whatever scans or videos the calculations are linked to no longer function. I attempted to load them and after a full five minutes got only errors back. It also doesn't help that this external forum and the links inside constantly try to bounce me to some malicious website.

I am near-certain these calculations are wanked/obsolete. I have no idea how they even arrived at this result.

I would agree that these don't abide by our standards. Visually, the explosives don't appear to actually generate an explosion if they strike a target. I would interpret this as "they explode inside the target, leading to their vaporization". This is most definitely still 9-A, however- the baseline value for vaporizing a human being. I believe the evidence provided in that calc blog satisfies this.

2: Massively Hypersonic Calculation.

Putting aside the fact that even if this is legit, it is likely an outlier, this external forum calc is busted for similar reasons. I cannot figure out what they were calculating as the links are busted, at least in my browser. I assume it is referring to this video, but I think it is pretty clear that this is blatant aim dodging. Vega clearly is not intercepting and evading these shots mid-stride, he is strafing and his enemy is missing him. We don't calculate characters strafing from oncoming gunfire as supersonic no? That's aim dodging. Honestly I have no idea why this was ever accepted.

I can only work from implication, because these are accessed via Web Archive, but it appears that the old calc is an instance of calc stacking, wherein it gains the speed of a Mass Accelerator round via calculating that separately. I'm not sure, because most of the links don't work. If this is the case, then yes, it cannot be used. If it doesn't, then your other concerns at the very least make it questionable, sure.

3: Biotic power calc. High 8-C

The width of the wall is blatantly wanked. You can notice at the scan it for some reason measures this big gap all the way across when the actual wall panel is clearly much thinner. At best, you could say that it is hollow. Again, no idea why this was accepted. But I suppose it doesn't matter that much as biotics have another legit High 8-C feat. That too could have issues though.

I must be honest, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this first bit. I believe you're referencing the second scan.

Is it that you're saying that because the ends of the walls are tilted somewhat outwards, they achieve a higher result? I think the calc would probably still be very close to its current value if you did account for that, but it would be lower, I suppose, if you could do it more reliably. How would you do that more reliably, if this is your meaning?

The alternative thing you might be saying that I can think of is that there's two very thin wall panels, not one wide one, and each of those two wall panels are in fact very thin, but I don't think this is definitely the case. The background of that second image shows a wall that indeed extends across the entire width of the pixelscaled area- I believe we're just seeing a hollow space in the wall, not that the walls are not generally solid.

Either way, I guess it doesn't matter much, if you have a separate High 8-C calc you hold no issue with.

4: Rock destruction calc. 9-A.

This blatantly should not have been accepted imo. It assumes rock when the entry provided stated that the rocks are "brittle obsidian".

Yeah, this scooting by via a technicality on obsidian being rock sucks.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I would agree that these don't abide by our standards. Visually, the explosives don't appear to actually generate an explosion if they strike a target. I would interpret this as "they explode inside the target, leading to their vaporization". This is most definitely still 9-A, however- the baseline value for vaporizing a human being. I believe the evidence provided in that calc blog satisfies this.

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to evaluate these.

This is as I suspected. If the more knowledgeable ME members can uncover the scans originally used to calc these heavy weapons, I can recalculate them more accurately.

I can only work from implication, because these are accessed via Web Archive, but it appears that the old calc is an instance of calc stacking, wherein it gains the speed of a Mass Accelerator round via calculating that separately. I'm not sure, because most of the links don't work. If this is the case, then yes, it cannot be used. If it doesn't, then your other concerns at the very least make it questionable, sure.

As I suspected. Hopefully ME has some other speed feats.

I must be honest, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this first bit. I believe you're referencing the second scan.

Is it that you're saying that because the ends of the walls are tilted somewhat outwards, they achieve a higher result? I think the calc would probably still be very close to its current value if you did account for that, but it would be lower, I suppose, if you could do it more reliably. How would you do that more reliably, if this is your meaning?

The alternative thing you might be saying that I can think of is that there's two very thin wall panels, not one wide one, and each of those two wall panels are in fact very thin, but I don't think this is definitely the case. The background of that second image shows a wall that indeed extends across the entire width of the pixelscaled area- I believe we're just seeing a hollow space in the wall, not that the walls are not generally solid.

Either way, I guess it doesn't matter much, if you have a separate High 8-C calc you hold no issue with.

I recalculated it here, though my blog is incomplete. I cannot really go all into ME until I am through with Halo.

My reasoning is that I think the space that was believed to be destroyed was hollow, and the thinner panels I measured show a more accurate figure. I could be wrong though. After seeing the awful Narutofourms calcs, I took on a skeptical mindset in regards to the existing calcs.

Also Bambu, do you believe this is Vfrag or Pulverization? I did not see any pebbles or tiny fragments but they could also easily have been scattered out of sight.

The other High 8-C calc was never evaluated by the Calc Group as I recall. I will submit it to the Calc Group when I begin tackling ME revisions full on.

Yeah, this scooting by via a technicality on obsidian being rock sucks.

I cannot imagine that "Brittle" Obsidian takes much energy to shatter at all, certainly not nearly as much as ordinary rock.

 

[Stefano4444]

ME in general is needing more love tbh. While we're discussing possible AP issues I have had one with the fact that ME's kinetic barriers are supposedly tier 8 when really they seem to be not that, like heck I remember Garrus's shields getting overwhelmed in ME2 by that gunship iirc. There's also instances where we see shields take damage from gunfire, like in the bring down the sky mission too.

That its just your typical inconsistencies that we kinda have to expect due of either gameplay or plot, since Shepard its still suppost to just a peak human character instead of a superpowered begin like Homelander.

Like we have other characters like Geralt of Rivia, Rick Sanchez or Kazuma Kiryu who are supposedly buildings levels and yet they get hurt by things like bullets or pitchfork.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

That its just your typical inconsistencies that we kinda have to expect due of either gameplay or plot, since Shepard its still suppost to just a peak human character instead of a superpowered begin like Homelander.

Like we have other characters like Geralt of Rivia, Rick Sanchez or Kazuma Kiryu who are supposedly buildings levels and yet they get hurt by things like bullets or pitchfork.

And Halo Spartans being hurt by terminal velocity falls despite consistently withstanding energy magnitudes higher than said falls.

I get what you mean, but we need ample feats and in all frankness, Mass Effect presently is kind of anemic when it comes to quantified showings.

 

[Stefano4444]

Speaking about ME calcs, years ago i did made two Speed calcs that we could use.

Shepard's dodging a bullet and Aria dodging Praetorian's Beam, while i think Aria calc could still be correct (unless it can be proven that it isn't aim dodging) i'm not sure about the first one since the speed of the bullet its based on a quote from a novel which may and may not be official/canon.

Another feats that we could try to calculate are this damaged mech destroying massive blocks of rock and Wrex surviving a massive explosion that he caused in the comics.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Speaking about ME calcs, years ago i did made two Speed calcs that we could use.

Shepard's dodging a bullet and Aria dodging Praetorian's Beam, while i think Aria calc could still be correct (unless it can be proven that it isn't aim dodging) i'm not sure about the first one since the speed of the bullet its based on a quote from a novel which may and may not be official/canon.

What novel is the statement from? Otherwise those calcs seem legit and were accepted.

Another feats that we could try to calculate are this damaged mech destroying massive blocks of rock and Wrex surviving a massive explosion that he caused in the comics.

When linking to a YouTube video, make sure to right click "Copy URL at current time." As for the comic scan, I need more context. Where exactly was Rex relative to the explosion? I am confused as to where exactly he was? This is important because we must consider the inverse square law.

 

[Stillwinston]

That its just your typical inconsistencies that we kinda have to expect due of either gameplay or plot, since Shepard its still suppost to just a peak human character instead of a superpowered begin like Homelander.

Like we have other characters like Geralt of Rivia, Rick Sanchez or Kazuma Kiryu who are supposedly buildings levels and yet they get hurt by things like bullets or pitchfork.

Fair fair, I mean its not just the fact that shields can get damaged in cut-scenes but they also often get depleted by rapid fire rounds in gameplay too and in the lore do bugger all against melee attacks due to not activating fast enough. The tier 8 feat for shields is prolly an outlier imo

 

[Stefano4444]

in the lore do bugger all against melee attacks due to not activating fast enough.

I mean the kinetic barriers in lore are only meant to shield the user again firearms and explosions, not melee combat.

Anyway i can see why Tier 8 for kinetic barriers may be an outlier, still i do think they should be to at least 9-A since they would upscale to the characters's own durability.

 

[Stefano4444]

What novel is the statement from? Otherwise those calcs seem legit and were accepted.

The quote come from the novel Mass Effect: Deception, at least supposedly.

As for the comic scan, I need more context. Where exactly was Rex relative to the explosion? I am confused as to where exactly he was? This is important because we must consider the inverse square law.

The feat happen in chapter 2 of Mass Effect Foundation, and context wise we don't actually see how close he was in the explosion but before the fight he did go to arm himself in an arsenal where he acquired a rocket laucher which he likely used to blow up warehouses, and he was probably in the middle of the blast so its likely he did took a portion of the explosion, thought how much i don't know.

Still, if we can't scale Wrex, we can use it as support feat for high end explosives/missiles to remain Tier 8.

 

[Stillwinston]

The quote come from the novel Mass Effect: Deception, at least supposedly.

I'm not sure if we count Deception as canon, mostly due to errors made in regards to prior lore from what I heard. Though if Bioware did say it was then we can use feats from it I guess

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

I'm not sure if we count Deception as canon, mostly due to errors made in regards to prior lore from what I heard. Though if Bioware did say it was then we can use feats from it I guess

Deception is notable for the negative reception from fans of the Mass Effect series, which prompted significant coverage from media outlets. In response to the negative reception, BioWare announced in February 2012 that they intended to revise the novel's content for future editions of Deception. No rewrite has been announced or published ever since. (Source)

Its not canon

 

[Stefano4444]

bump