Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,412
- 11,002
yippee i love self harming
Concept Manipulation (Type 2)
Sources in Maou Gakuin are conceptual in nature, existing deeper than the body, mind, and soul, and acting as the fundamental concept of existence all beings possess. It's definitely a concept, but the reason it's treated as type 2 is based on two scans used to claim that the source exists in the past, present, and future, therefore defining a concept across an entire timeline (in other words, "all of reality" according to our CM page).
There's one glaringly obvious problem here, which is that both scans only refer to a person's future lives; Nothing about their past is mentioned at all, so we can't say sources determine anything about a person's past. That already would debunk type 2 CM, but the future lives bit is odd as well; As a person is reliant on their source to reincarnate, it is likely that someone losing their future lives after source destruction would just be a byproduct of losing the thing that grants them those reincarnations to begin with.
TL;DR: Sources don't govern the past of their owners, and thus do not control a concept over all of reality, disqualifying it from type 2.
EDIT: To address this scan, it is not saying that the source getting erased will erase the past and future of the owner. Just that the source itself will be erased across time.
Information Manipulation (Type 2)
The scans for sources qualifying as type 2 information strike me as odd, to say the least. For starters, the first one just reiterates what already makes sources conceptual; They they're the fundamental concept of existence, which doesn't do anything for type 2 info. The second scan is about sources making someone who they are and magic being born from sources; Again, nothing about information, just more conceptual stuff. The third one is interesting though, as it states that the source "remembers" the outline of the body, which is why it can regenerate the physical body after death. Fair enough, but that's just type 1 information; Nothing is really "fundamental" here, as something akin to a blueprint or memory would fall under knowledge (which is what type 1 info is).
TL;DR: All of the evidence for type 2 info is just more evidence of conceptual manipulation, and maybe type 1 info.
High-Godly Regeneration/NEP/Everything Else
Now, if all of this were to go through, what would the consequences be? To start, the reason most characters possess high-godly regeneration (or negation of it) is because they can recover from source destruction (or kill those who can do so). However, the entry for HGR clearly states that type 3 concepts cannot qualify for HGR if regenerated, so that would disqualify source regeneration by extension. If there are any feats of HGR not reliant on sources, then those can stay, but characters like Anos or the gods would go back down to mid-godly.
As an aside, Anos and Graham would lose their aspect type 4 NEP, as that's reliant on fundamental information. Characters who have type 2 information/concept hax from messing with sources would lose these abilities as well.
Staff Votes:
Agree: @Theglassman12, @Planck69, @Maverick_Zero_X (leaning agree), @Qawsedf234, @DarkGrath
Disagree: @Dereck03, @DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral:
Concept Manipulation (Type 2)
Sources in Maou Gakuin are conceptual in nature, existing deeper than the body, mind, and soul, and acting as the fundamental concept of existence all beings possess. It's definitely a concept, but the reason it's treated as type 2 is based on two scans used to claim that the source exists in the past, present, and future, therefore defining a concept across an entire timeline (in other words, "all of reality" according to our CM page).
There's one glaringly obvious problem here, which is that both scans only refer to a person's future lives; Nothing about their past is mentioned at all, so we can't say sources determine anything about a person's past. That already would debunk type 2 CM, but the future lives bit is odd as well; As a person is reliant on their source to reincarnate, it is likely that someone losing their future lives after source destruction would just be a byproduct of losing the thing that grants them those reincarnations to begin with.
TL;DR: Sources don't govern the past of their owners, and thus do not control a concept over all of reality, disqualifying it from type 2.
EDIT: To address this scan, it is not saying that the source getting erased will erase the past and future of the owner. Just that the source itself will be erased across time.
Information Manipulation (Type 2)
The scans for sources qualifying as type 2 information strike me as odd, to say the least. For starters, the first one just reiterates what already makes sources conceptual; They they're the fundamental concept of existence, which doesn't do anything for type 2 info. The second scan is about sources making someone who they are and magic being born from sources; Again, nothing about information, just more conceptual stuff. The third one is interesting though, as it states that the source "remembers" the outline of the body, which is why it can regenerate the physical body after death. Fair enough, but that's just type 1 information; Nothing is really "fundamental" here, as something akin to a blueprint or memory would fall under knowledge (which is what type 1 info is).
TL;DR: All of the evidence for type 2 info is just more evidence of conceptual manipulation, and maybe type 1 info.
High-Godly Regeneration/NEP/Everything Else
Now, if all of this were to go through, what would the consequences be? To start, the reason most characters possess high-godly regeneration (or negation of it) is because they can recover from source destruction (or kill those who can do so). However, the entry for HGR clearly states that type 3 concepts cannot qualify for HGR if regenerated, so that would disqualify source regeneration by extension. If there are any feats of HGR not reliant on sources, then those can stay, but characters like Anos or the gods would go back down to mid-godly.
As an aside, Anos and Graham would lose their aspect type 4 NEP, as that's reliant on fundamental information. Characters who have type 2 information/concept hax from messing with sources would lose these abilities as well.
Staff Votes:
Agree: @Theglassman12, @Planck69, @Maverick_Zero_X (leaning agree), @Qawsedf234, @DarkGrath
Disagree: @Dereck03, @DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral:
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