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Pretty straight forward, just adding Paraconsistent Physiology to profiles for MG characters.

Graham;

Probably the most blatant case. Able to exist as nothing, which is equivalent of nonexistence. So Graham can embody a state of both contradictory states of existing and not existing at the same time.
At the same time, the apocalyptic flames quietly extinguished. Graham’s body was limp around my hand. His source was destroyed—there was no magic left to be detected.
“See?” Graham croaked. His body, now an empty shell, moved to firmly grab my arms. “I cannot be destroyed. Don’t you see how similar we are?”
He shouldn’t have been able to move at all. He had taken a direct hit from an Egil Grone Angdroa that was powerful enough to destroy the world, but his source was still intact. No, it was completely powerless and hollow now, but it should have perished and faded away entirely.
Nuelien.
Graham’s body faded, eventually vanishing entirely. But there was no trace of magic in him. No matter how much I strained my Eyes, I couldn’t see any power.
I immediately made a large leap to the side.
“Hmm.”
I could no longer feel the fingertips of the hand I had plunged into his stomach. It seemed I had leaped away a tad too late, and whatever it was had shaved a millimeter or so off the ends of my fingers. Vebzud, Jirasd, and Aviasten Ziara had been concentrated at the tips of those exact fingers, yet he was able to erase them without any resistance.
Graham’s source had vanished during his battle with Aeges. When he regenerated afterwards, he was able to destroy the Crimson Blood Spear easily. If I hadn’t witnessed that firsthand, I could have been missing an entire arm instead.
I stared at the spot where he had been with my Magic Eyes. His source was gone, and his body was gone too. But there was no doubt he was still there.
“The existence of nothing, huh?”
What actively existed in his place was “nothing”—there was no other way of describing it.
“I’m surprised you noticed,” Graham said. His voice seemed to be coming out of nowhere and everywhere at once. “Indeed, just like how your source is one of destruction, mine is one of nihility. The closer I approach destruction, the more of that power is brought out, and the more I return to my original state of nothingness.”
-Vol 8, Chapter 45
In this state of both existing and not existing, he was still able to cast the spell "Nuelien" making it clear he can even perform actions while in this contradictory state of existence.

Anos;

Similarly to Graham, Anos' source is one that should be able to perform the same type of feats considering how similar their source are and have been stated to be. Anos' source is able to be destroyed and at the same time not be due to his unique source. So it should therefore embody being destroyed and not destroyed, as it overcomes the destruction.
Eventually, Nuelien’s nihility faded, and Graham stood there in his usual form.
Generally, it would be strange for ‘nothing’ to be ‘something.’ But your existence is quite similar, isn’t it?” he asked, flapping his tongue uselessly. “You were born with destruction.”
...
“Everything before the Divine Scythe of Disorder is chaos. Things that should happen do not happen. Things that shouldn’t happen do happen,” he said, as though he was stating the obvious—as though he was answering a question I hadn’t asked. “I know, I know. You won’t perish from this. The closer you get to destruction, the brighter that source of yours glows. Just like how I return from nothing, destruction is merely another thing you shall overcome.”
Considering both parties are misfits of the world, this shouldn't be a controversial topic as both of them out outside the reason of the world. Things such as contradictory logic should be easy for beings who are unbounded to the logic/reason of the world they are in.
“But I’m not talking philosophy,” Graham replied. “I’m speaking about the world. About order and magic. We are outside the bounds of reason. They do not apply to us. Why do you think we’ve been removed from the framework of this world’s order?
He used Ceris Voldigoad’s power to glare back at me with the same mauve Eyes.
“Isn’t it odd to you too?”
Graham swung Bephengzdogma. The chaotic power of the God of Frenzy in the blade activated, his own body being slashed and blood immediately seeping from the wound.
“Oh, it looks like I missed.”
“What dull things to think about,” I said, running to close the distance to him once again. When I thrust my Vebzud-stained fingers forwards, he blocked them with the blade of his scythe.
“Really? But have you thought about this?” he continued anyway. “The fact we’re outside the bounds of reason proves that there is a boundary to this world in the first place. It suggests that there may be higher orders past this boundary, and that, for some reason, our sources transcend these limitations.
And with the fact that his signature eye's is about causing contradictions, it should be a fair assessment that this is a consistent property of Anos and his Source.
I walked straight towards them. My left Eye was dyed mauve with a cross of darkness deep within its abyss—it was one of the Magic Eyes of Mayhem. I had used it to destroy the order of Verd Raze Fenblem.
“Everything before these Eyes will perish. Be it order, reason, or you, Equis.”
“No such order should exist,” they said with dumbfounded confusion. “There are no Magic Eyes you can use that can affect destiny. Verd Raze Fenblem should have activated before that and destroyed the Demon King Garden!”
“You’re not getting it. I’m saying I destroyed the reason of Verd Raze Fenblem itself.”
“That’s impossible. Fate has already been determined. It was only a matter of it happening sooner or later. Even if time could be rewound to before the creation of the Demon King’s Garden, the Cogs of Fate would have still destroyed it.”
“Bwa ha ha. Instead of blindly believing in order, why don’t you believe in what just happened before you? Aren’t the holes in those cogs Divine Eyes? Use them to look closer into the abyss.”
I came to a stop before them. “You decided fate, and I destroyed reason. These two powers contradict each other. Thus, it’s my win.
I lifted my foot and stomped on the ground. The bronze cogs buried in the surface all shattered at once.
After all, contradiction and chaos are my forte.
Between the Magic Eyes of Mayhem and a contradictory logic for its destruction, I was the one with an overwhelming advantage. The reasoning was simple: Against the power of a single fated event, the Magic Eyes of Mayhem merely had to prevent it from happening. The contradiction of preventing a predetermined incident then fueled the power of the Magic Eyes.

Arcana;​

Can't talk about contradictory existences without the order of that very thing being brought up. Complicated argument, Arcana embodies the order that allows contradictory states of existences to occur. For example, a flower that burns and freezes at the same time. The property of cold/freeze is the absence of heat, while the property of hot/burn is the presence of it. So although it isn't like calling it hot or not hot, or burn and not burn, the fact these two states are polar opposites of themselves should still result in a paraconsistent state of logic, since the negation to one results in the presence of another.
Dancing flowers of ice appeared in her palms. Arcana slowly raised her hands, returning them to the skies.
“Snow falls in the spring sun; six flowers melt the world.”
Shining like the sun but with the cold radiance of the moon, the frozen flowers burned. More and more of these flowers gathered at Arcana’s back, creating something that resembled the sun and moon, yet wasn’t.
“Springtime Hexabloom.”
“What? Is this...order?” Andeluc murmured in confusion, staring at the object that was creating the Springtime Hexabloom. They were six petals, burning and freezing at the same time. It emitted divine authority, and in its presence was the order of a god. “This can’t be possible... This—!”
Her Divine Eyes widened and she shook her head. As one of the Four Principles, the foundation of all order, she couldn’t believe the divine power before her eyes.
“This has to be a mistake! Such an order couldn’t possibly exist!”
“Moon rises not; sun falls. Spring illuminates the godless world,” Arcana recited in a tranquil voice. “Levihelorta.”
The burning flowers of ice released cold air and hot steam simultaneously. The flowers possessed two elements coexisting with each other when they should have been in conflict, and it was the power of that contradiction—the power to both freeze and burn the sea of termination—that disturbed the order of the Mother Sea. The forbidden soldiers that had sunk helplessly into the ocean were now illuminated by Levihelorta, allowing them to move once again and resume rescuing their demon allies, one after another.
It would be the same as if you take light and darkness, comparing that to hot and cold. The presence of light, would be so, and the absence of light would be darkness. So not light = darkness, just as not hot = cold.

Of course the next problem would be that Hot and Cold aren't necessarily negations to themselves, since there is a spectrum of temperature concepts, the issue however with this is that we'd be speaking more on language instead of just logical truths such as a concept and it's negation. Calling something warm, is just a term to mean "less hot than really hot." So the terminology can be changed out with the key term and still mean the same thing, so trying to bring up the idea of multiple terms for different extremities for heat, doesn't negate the dual state of hot and cold. Which can equally be stated as hot and not hot.

But even despite that, the fact she is allowed to utilize any contradictory state should imply the ability to do so in a logical sense as well, considering her being the goddess of Absurdity was to distort logic equally as order. And Veneziara, was able to be stated to allow contradictions, so contradictions should include logical ones as well.

Now why does this matter? Gods embody their order and are their order. So if the order of Absurdity is able to exist in contradictions, then the god of said order should do the same.

(QUICK EDIT): Since this would also open up a new line of logic, something burning and freezing, or being hot and cold, at the same time, this could also qualify for many valued logic since it's beyond the typical 0, 1 dual logical state.

Veneziara;

Even if all that isn't enough proof for the things needed, the spell Veneziara should be enough to prove the idea that contradictory existences can occur simultaneously without issues. It was already proven to be logic manipulation and it was already proven that the spell allows for contradictory possibilities to exist at one time.
Veneziara is a spell that realizes possibilities.
“Realizes possibilities? What are you saying?”
“Don’t you understand? When Levyngilma is in its sheath, there is a possibility for it to be drawn and a possibility for it not to be drawn. Using Veneziara, I made both of those possibilities come to be at once.”
I held the Sword of the Almighty up so that Ahid could see it. It was still in its sheath.
As long as Levyngilma remains in its sheath, I haven’t drawn the sword. As long as the sword is in the sheath, I will not perish. To think of it another way, the fact I haven’t perished proves this sword hasn’t been drawn.”
...
“The answer is this: the almighty one can and cannot draw the sword at the same time. The sword that cannot be drawn by anyone can be drawn without being drawn. It’s simple, no? If one is almighty, then they must be able to draw and not draw the sword at the same time.”
“What... What nonsense is this? Such a thing isn’t possible. It’s a contradiction!”
I grinned at Ahid’s bewilderment. “That is what Veneziara for you. Whether it be sheathed or unsheathed, both possibilities exist at the same time.”
I might draw the sword, and I might not draw the sword. It was only natural for both possibilities to exist at the same time
.
“And so, I realized both possibilities at once. Contradicting forms of Veneziara can exist concurrently because they are only possibilities.
-Volume 5, Chapter 42
“Veneziara, huh?” I muttered.
At that moment, Graham had used Veneziara to create multiple possibilities of himself. Thus, even though I had successfully stabbed his heart and source, Graham had been able to maintain himself through the possible version of him that had not been destroyed.
-Volume 8, Chapter 46

Both Graham and Anos are able to utilize this spell in order to make logically contradictory things possible, therefore what one can do the other could as well as they are both misfits whose sources come from beyond their world. So using Veneziara in order to exist in a contradictory state of destruction and not destruction, allowing a source to not be destroyed and be destroyed at the same time, this means that anyone who can utilize the spell (Anos, Ceris and Graham currently) would therefore have the ability to exist in a paraconsistent state of contradiction.

We should also note that it can be layered as well, which may lead to layered forms of this ability as the layers stack.
“Huh... Was that the Veneziara you used earlier, perhaps?” he asked.
“Well spotted. I cast Veneziara on the Veneziara you deflected earlier.”
Ceris had used the possibilities of the Sword of a Thousand Bolts to repel me and seal Leviangilma. But to think of this another way, in contrast to the reality in which I was right beside him, there was a possibility that I had been repelled and moved a short distance away. That possibility normally would have disappeared, but I had used Veneziara on it to turn it into reality.
This was how I had caught Ceris—who fully believed Leviangilma couldn’t be drawn—off guard, allowing me to slash the spherical magic circle and Sword of a Thousand Bolts at the same time.
“Good grief. Casting Veneziara on Veneziara? I’m speechless, but I suppose I should have expected that much from my son.” -Volume 7, Chapter 30
The voice that spoke came from behind me. There was nobody to be seen, but the Divine Scythe of Disorder was floating in the air as though someone was holding it. It wasn’t the same as the nothingness from before. It was the spell he had used after Galvedul—
“Veneziara, huh?” I muttered.
At that moment, Graham had used Veneziara to create multiple possibilities of himself. Thus, even though I had successfully stabbed his heart and source, Graham had been able to maintain himself through the possible version of him that had not been destroyed.
“That’s right.”
Before I could erase his Veneziara form with my Magic Eyes of Destruction, the silencing blade of the scythe flashed. The floor and walls of the room were sliced apart, and cuts were sliced across my body. The moment my Eyes destroyed the multiple layers of Veneziara, the body skewered on the Abolisher of Reason split horizontally across the middle.
...
“The true lonely monster was you... Anos...”
The layers of reinforced Veneziara turned into particles of light that rose into the sky. I returned the Abolisher of Reason to its shadow form and looked up, watching the particles rise. Soon after I turned my gaze to the Sword of a Thousand Bolts. -Volume 8, Chapter 46

I don't think anyone else would qualify for this ability as of now, so this would have to do.

So there we have it.

Agree; @Vietthai96 (Graham; Type 1 | Veneziara; Type 1), @Dalesean027 (Agrees w/ Vietthai)​

Neutral;​

Disagree;

 
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Wankers are wanking. Looks okay to me but couldn't the Order of Absurdity be described as just Order Manipulation or even Logic?
 
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Wankers are wanking. Looks okay to me but couldn't the Order of Absurdity be described as just Order Manipulation or even Logic?
Considering the very Order is to contradict, I think the idea could extend to paraconsistent Physiology. Considering if Arcana can utilize this to cause a contradictory existence to exist, she should be able to make that also apply to herself being that she is that order. I wouldn't be on the scale of Graham or Anos, but it should still count for many-valued logic.
 
Considering the very Order is to contradict, I think the idea could extend to paraconsistent Physiology. Considering if Arcana can utilize this to cause a contradictory existence to exist, she should be able to make that also apply to herself being that she is that order. I wouldn't be on the scale of Graham or Anos, but it should still count for many-valued logic.
Ok I understand thanks
 
Agree with Arcana. Her order is special but that state of contradiction is only active when she uses Levihelorta. Would be better a CRT about Order being dual.

I don't remember well vol 8 but ...

"Nuelien" magic can be used by Anos or just Graham when he is non-existent? If it's the first then agree with Graham being non existent but using magic and body that requires existence via root. If that's not the case then neutral.

Rest neutral.
 
"Nuelien" magic can be used by Anos or just Graham when he is non-existent? If it's the first then agree with Graham being non existent but using magic and body that requires existence via root. If that's not the case then neutral.
The reason I brought Nuelien in, is do demonstrate that Graham can actively do things while his source is nothing/nonexistent. Which should obviously add validity to this being a physiology feat, or nature of being that can be achieved.

So that's more or less supporting evidence, no really needing to be a forefront of the arguments.
 
The reason I brought Nuelien in, is do demonstrate that Graham can actively do things while his source is nothing/nonexistent. Which should obviously add validity to this being a physiology feat, or nature of being that can be achieved.

So that's more or less supporting evidence, no really needing to be a forefront of the arguments.
Also his body still moving and existing even he is non-existent. Should got destroyed like Diego.

Wait, IIRC in vol 7 his body was existent after his root was destroyed after the decapitation magic?🤔
 
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This crt died rather quickly; it would probably have been better if you had included the duality of order in general (orders being opposites), Eques as the aggregation/union of all orders, etc.
The only reason I didn't was because I believed they changed the standard to be logical dualities, like Hot/not hot. Cause Orders don't have that situation. They just have opposing orders. I thought that that didn't qualify anymore
 
The only reason I didn't was because I believed they changed the standard to be logical dualities, like Hot/not hot. Cause Orders don't have that situation. They just have opposing orders. I thought that that didn't qualify anymore
Fire and ice, which are hot and cold at the same time, represent the order of destruction and creation. That's why we see both orders when Arcana opens her eyes, and soon after, it's explained how these things are contradictory and shouldn't be able to coexist.

So I'm sure they count as logical contradictions.
 
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The only reason I didn't was because I believed they changed the standard to be logical dualities, like Hot/not hot. Cause Orders don't have that situation. They just have opposing orders. I thought that that didn't qualify anymore
Really? Even they don't have fire and no fire, ice still having the properties of classical logic IIRC.

The scans about being parts of the same coin, only one can exist at the same time, both are destroyed if you destroy only one. Are useless to prove dualities?
 
Fire and ice, which are hot and cold at the same time, represent the order of destruction and creation. That's why we see both orders when Arcana opens her eyes, and soon after, it's explained how these things are contradictory and shouldn't be able to coexist.

So I'm sure they count as logical contradictions.
It doesn't. It needs to be strictly negations. Even if a verse says fire and ice exist in contradiction it still doesn't count.
 
I think a CRT about trying to prove orders being a dualities was the Best option. Only required vol 9 and 10. Without that Arcana's feats looks baseless.
 
It doesn't. It needs to be strictly negations. Even if a verse says fire and ice exist in contradiction it still doesn't count.
As far as I remember, hashing was already about logical negation back when hashing was called transduality, and orders had been accepted as logical negation/transduality.
 
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Instead of [fire and water], it has to be [fire and non-fire].
Something like "x" and "not-x"
I know about THAT part; it's worked that way since the hax was called transduality. My question is:

If a cosmology portrays death and life as dualities, contradictory/opposite things that cannot be "together," would that qualify as "duality"?

Basically: It follows everything that duality demands, but it involves concepts like "death and life," "light and darkness," etc.

Edit: No need to reply, one of the characters in the examples from the hax literally has "life and death" as a duality.
 
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Don’t see negations here ngl
Existing and not existing (the existence of nothing), as nothing is the absence of something. Considering something and not something can be still equate to something and nothing, as those two are distinct logical negations. As I've explained, the lack of one means the presence of the other.

Also, being destroyed and not being destoryed via Veneziara. Since the spell itself already deals with logical negations, such as pulling out a sword and not pulling out a sword, the effect of the spell is not debatable in regards to that.
 
I could see PP1 from Existence and Nonexistence, other than that is a no

Fire and ice, which are hot and cold at the same time, represent the order of destruction and creation. That's why we see both orders when Arcana opens her eyes, and soon after, it's explained how these things are contradictory and shouldn't be able to coexist.

So I'm sure they count as logical contradictions.
No, they aren't contradictories but contraries


If a cosmology portrays death and life as dualities, contradictory/opposite things that cannot be "together," would that qualify as "duality"?
No, they need to portrays death and life stuff as logical negation, as death is false state of life (which make death being non-life)
 
No, they need to portrays death and life stuff as logical negation, as death is false state of life (which make death being non-life)
So what exactly qualifies as a logical negation? I thought that two things that cannot coexist and that are opposites would be a logical negation.
 
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