MCU Ikaris tier and speed upgrade

[Ralp0054]

In Marvel Zombies Episode 1, we learned that Ikaris and Captain Marvel fought for years and couldn't defeat each other, I think ikaris should be made at least High 6-A and Relativistic+ speed, it would be nice for more knowledgeable people to check this out.

Ikaris (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Ikaris was the former tactical leader and most powerful member of the community of genetically-engineered Eternals. Created by the Celestials in the World Forge, Ikaris was sent to Earth in 5,000 BC to progress the planet's societal development, and protect it from the Deviants. Ikaris learned...

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Captain Marvel (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Captain Carol Susan Jane Danvers, also known as Captain Marvel, is a former United States Air Force pilot who, upon being exposed to the energy of the Tesseract, obtained cosmic powers. She was made into a Kree-Human hybrid via a blood transfusion from Yon-Rogg, while having her memories...

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Here the sandbox (needs a little more editing)

Ralp0054/Sandbox

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[GeneralSol16]

I think a possibly rating would fit the best here.
Since it's another universe, and even when its rules are that they're the same versions as the MCU counterparts, his level of power is too far from his canon counterpart to be a solid rating.

 

[Ralp0054]

I think a possibly rating would fit the best here.
Since it's another universe, and even when its rules are that they're the same versions as the MCU counterparts, his level of power is too far from his canon counterpart to be a solid rating.

fair enaugh, 'possible' sounds better, But even if it's another universe, it's not a way to give a tier to these characters that we haven't done before, we consider the same person with the same scale

 

[Ralp0054]

bump

 

[Excellence616]

Pretty sure we don't scale to main earth to alternate earths for MCU.

 

[Dinobot1996]

I think an argument could be made for a 'possibly' rating.

Eternals director Chloe Zhao stated years ago that Ikaris vs. Captain Marvel would be a tough fight:


Eternals producer Nate Moore also once made a similar statement on the potential matchup of Captain Marvel vs. Thena:

“I mean, when Captain Marvel goes binary, that is tough. But it will be as if Captain America, who I would argue is probably the best physical fighter, was powered by cosmic weapons. She’s going to be a problem, but again, Captain Marvel going binary, that’s tough.”

 

[Ralp0054]

Pretty sure we don't scale to main earth to alternate earths for MCU.

Does it seem absurd that an angel created by a godlike character who caused the Big Bang could take High 6-A like Captain Marvel who gained her powers from an infinity stone?

 

[Ptumri9]

Pretty sure we don't scale to main earth to alternate earths for MCU.

We don’t.

That said, as Dinobot mentioned, an argument could be made for a “possibly” rating.

It still feels like a bit of a stretch in my opinion, but given the limited number of appearances and the lack of detailed information on Ikaris, it shouldn’t be dismissed outright. We should check who scales to Ikaris and whether this would break any existing scaling. If it doesn’t, then I think it could work, but only if there’s a consensus that we should use it.

 

[Reyne]

The Chloe Zhao statement is why I think this is fair. I've said before that this universe deveated so recently that it should be usable. The only oddities are when Thanos got each stone, but the director (Bryan Andrews) said he would kind of take a peek at other creatives to get an idea of where characters are so he don't mess things up (which is why Blade is Moon Knight, as those guys couldn't come up with anything). They solved my two main issues from early on, Shang-Chi having the ten rings and Kamala having her bangle, so I don't see much to critique. It's about as consistent as the ST is with itself. 5 years time can justify Late having her suit, Banner not dying to a Wanda who should be on par with her "Thanos besting" Endgame emotional state (the virus overloads the limbic system), and Namor being a known figure. Granted, we can't just give Bucky feats he earned after 5 years of living in this apocalypse (Andrew's had plans for him that didn't fit within the runtime). As I mentioned before, Kamala's output in consistent with being a high tier (defending against and going all out to kill Namor, a Hulk level character who should be able to mess with Dar-Benn.

I get the strong apprehension to using alternate universes, but man if this isn't a duck that walks and quacks like a duck. (The best part is that 21 year old Peter, near Doomsday aged, still wasn't a high tier.)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Zombie characters don't fully control their powers duo to lack of reasoning like how Thanos was not using the infinity stones has he should be capable of, there is enough reason to believe Captain Marvel being affected by the virus could be weakened, as such there is no guarantee Ikarus would scale to full powered Captain Marvel.

 

[Reyne]

Gra

Zombie characters don't fully control their powers duo to lack of reasoning like how Thanos was not using the infinity stones has he should be capable of, there is enough reason to believe Captain Marvel being affected by the virus could be weakened, as such there is no guarantee Ikarus would scale to full powered Captain Marvel.

Granted, the two had been fighting for so long that the place they were fighting over was named for it, so she might very well have realized her power AND Konshu believed they could not overcome one another.

With this train of logic, however, it would lean the cause of damage to Ikaris in Captain Marvel's favor. Still, the dude has a infinite reserve of energy, same as her.

 

[Ralp0054]

Zombie characters don't fully control their powers duo to lack of reasoning like how Thanos was not using the infinity stones has he should be capable of, there is enough reason to believe Captain Marvel being affected by the virus could be weakened, as such there is no guarantee Ikarus would scale to full powered Captain Marvel.

You're talking about characters using scripted power levels because of the plot, which happens in every fictional universe, and this is something that's always overlooked in scaling.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Gra
Granted, the two had been fighting for so long that the place they were fighting over was named for it, so she might very well have realized her power AND Konshu believed they could not overcome one another.

With this train of logic, however, it would lean the cause of damage to Ikaris in Captain Marvel's favor. Still, the dude has a infinite reserve of energy, same as her.

You're talking about characters using scripted power levels because of the plot, which happens in every fictional universe, and this is something that's always overlooked in scaling.

It was specifically states that Thanos had unlimited power but because of his lack of mental capabilities he couldn't focus his power which is how Spiderman and the others even had a chance, it's also very likely that Thanos managed to learn because he had the mind stone instead of Zombies actually being capable of learning.

 

[Reyne]

It was specifically states that Thanos had unlimited power but because of his lack of mental capabilities he couldn't focus his power which is how Spiderman and the others even had a chance, it's also very likely that Thanos managed to learn because he had the mind stone instead of Zombies actually being capable of learning.

I thought that was pretty clearly in reference to his skill with the stones. He started off with raw blasts from the power stone, demonstrated the stated learning with the reality stone, then made the ground float. The most relevant point is that Wanda got smarter in those five years, and zombies demonstrated varying levels of regaining their skills. As it stands for CM, she isn't presented as being any less capable as a fighter

 

[Celest_Void]

In Marvel Zombies Episode 1, we learned that Ikaris and Captain Marvel fought for years and couldn't defeat each other, I think ikaris should be made at least High 6-A and Relativistic+ speed, it would be nice for more knowledgeable people to check this out.

Ikaris (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Ikaris was the former tactical leader and most powerful member of the community of genetically-engineered Eternals. Created by the Celestials in the World Forge, Ikaris was sent to Earth in 5,000 BC to progress the planet's societal development, and protect it from the Deviants. Ikaris learned...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Captain Marvel (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Captain Carol Susan Jane Danvers, also known as Captain Marvel, is a former United States Air Force pilot who, upon being exposed to the energy of the Tesseract, obtained cosmic powers. She was made into a Kree-Human hybrid via a blood transfusion from Yon-Rogg, while having her memories...

vsbattles.fandom.com

We don't scale the movie characters to the characters from these series; they are given their own profiles.

Here the sandbox (needs a little more editing)

Ralp0054/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

You should change his AP section. Simply adjusting the tier isn't the right approach, since he appears to be High 6-A due to being comparable to Gilgamesh.

I think an argument could be made for a 'possibly' rating.

Eternals director Chloe Zhao stated years ago that Ikaris vs. Captain Marvel would be a tough fight:


Eternals producer Nate Moore also once made a similar statement on the potential matchup of Captain Marvel vs. Thena:

“I mean, when Captain Marvel goes binary, that is tough. But it will be as if Captain America, who I would argue is probably the best physical fighter, was powered by cosmic weapons. She’s going to be a problem, but again, Captain Marvel going binary, that’s tough.”

Do we use this?

 

[Ralp0054]

We don't scale the movie characters to the characters from these series; they are given their own profiles.


You should change his AP section. Simply adjusting the tier isn't the right approach, since he appears to be High 6-A due to being comparable to Gilgamesh.


Do we use this?

Of course, the profiles are kept separate, but this is not a stretch as you claim, it is an effort to directly show us the power level of the character, and if this is tried to be said more than once in a significant way in different ways, we will focus on it as we are doing now.

 

[Celest_Void]

Of course, the profiles are kept separate, but this is not a stretch as you claim, it is an effort to directly show us the power level of the character, and if this is tried to be said more than once in a significant way in different ways, we will focus on it as we are doing now.

I'm not saying this is an stretch.

 

[Ralp0054]

I think an argument could be made for a 'possibly' rating.

Eternals director Chloe Zhao stated years ago that Ikaris vs. Captain Marvel would be a tough fight:


Eternals producer Nate Moore also once made a similar statement on the potential matchup of Captain Marvel vs. Thena:

“I mean, when Captain Marvel goes binary, that is tough. But it will be as if Captain America, who I would argue is probably the best physical fighter, was powered by cosmic weapons. She’s going to be a problem, but again, Captain Marvel going binary, that’s tough.”

Until now, we have always taken the verbal and written sources of directors and producers as evidence and used them as evidence in the profiles, There should be no obstacle to using these resources.

 

[Ralp0054]

I'm not saying this is an stretch.

To say that a character from a series cannot be scaled to the one in the movie would be to say that we are stretching it in a way, here we are talking with the same characters from the same multiverse, both of them have the same story, the reason why they are made this fight is an attempt to specifically show that they have the same power, the rivalry of these two characters has been discussed many times.

 

[Reyne]

Is someone working on calling the valley "entrance" the trio stumble upon? We don't know what caused, beyond being implied to be from the fight, but it would be good to know how much energy it would take given certain speeds.

 

[Celest_Void]

To say that a character from a series cannot be scaled to the one in the movie would be to say that we are stretching it in a way, here we are talking with the same characters from the same multiverse, both of them have the same story, the reason why they are made this fight is an attempt to specifically show that they have the same power, the rivalry of these two characters has been discussed many times.

I’m just saying we can’t scale the movie characters to the ones from the series, since the CRT is based on a feat from the show.

The director might simply be underestimating Captain Marvel’s strength. I might be sounding crazy here, but it would be like Murata saying Saitama beats Goku and someone using that as an argument to upgrade him. To give an example within Marvel, it would be like a writer who’s never written a Thor story claiming that he and Spider-Man would have a tough battle, but Thor would win.

 

[Ralp0054]

I’m just saying we can’t scale the movie characters to the ones from the series, since the CRT is based on a feat from the show.

The director might simply be underestimating Captain Marvel’s strength. I might be sounding crazy here, but it would be like Murata saying Saitama beats Goku and someone using that as an argument to upgrade him. To give an example within Marvel, it would be like a writer who’s never written a Thor story claiming that he and Spider-Man would have a tough battle, but Thor would win.

bro they literally fight, for years, you can't make goku and saitama fight, this isn't a theoretical revision, these are two characters who beat each other's asses without the other being defeated, it's not absurd to draw conclusions from this

 

[Celest_Void]

bro they literally fight, for years, you can't make goku and saitama fight, this isn't a theoretical revision, these are two characters who beat each other's asses without the other being defeated, it's not absurd to draw conclusions from this

Their movie versions don’t fight each other.

 

[Ralp0054]

Their movie versions don’t fight each other.

 

[darkphantom9805]

It was specifically states that Thanos had unlimited power but because of his lack of mental capabilities he couldn't focus his power which is how Spiderman and the others even had a chance, it's also very likely that Thanos managed to learn because he had the mind stone instead of Zombies actually being capable of learning.

I’m not sure you actually watched the show thanos was learning before he got the mind stone and showed all his growth and adaptation before getting it

also being able to use the stones is not the same as being able to use a persons super powers the stones require immense concentration and focus to be able to harness that’s different then like if thanos wanted to toss a regular punch at full strength

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

Following

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Following. Although, methinks that OP should add the interview stuff 'bout Ikaris and Cap. Marvel to use instead since it seems Marvel Zombies stuff might be a no-go.

 

[Ralp0054]

Following. Although, methinks that OP should add the interview stuff 'bout Ikaris and Cap. Marvel to use instead since it seems Marvel Zombies stuff might be a no-go.

Marvel zombies are just a confirmation here

 

[Ralp0054]

bump

 

[Excellence616]

bump

 

[Ralp0054]

bump