Medaka vs Kharn

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yup, that's right. Medaka Kurokami vs Kharn the Betrayer

Figured this would be an interesting fight, so let's get into the rules.

• Random encounter with no prior knowledge

• Both start fifty meters apart

• Battle takes place in the wreckage of a city

• Medaka is in End God Mode. Kharn is...uh...Kharn.

• Both in character

• Win by death

 

[KazarianFahs]

Kharn blitzes with plasma pistol

 

[Kami95]

I don't know Kharn, but looking at his profile, it may be inconclusive.

Kharn can't hurt Medaka (via Encounter), nor kill her (via All Fiction), but he's probably immune to All Fiction (via Collar), and Medaka shouldn't be able to kill him either (via immortality type 4).

However, since I don't know how exactly his immortality works, and I don't know if Collar just makes him immune to skills or completely negates them, of course it's just speculation.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Kami95

It's portrayed slightly differently in different stories, but it usually runs on certain criteria.

• If the technique will directly affect Kharn, it won't work.

• If the technique will affect the outcome of the fight with Kharn, it won't work.

• If the technique is considered to be magical, psychic, or reality warping, it will almost always be negated.

IIRC, the idea is Khorne is forcing Kharn's opponents to face him in honorable combat without cheap tricks.

 

[Kami95]

I see, so resurrecting and redirecting damage wouldn't work. Would Regenerationn work? Since Kharn has that too.

By phisical strenght they look similar (similar AP and durability, but Medaka is a little bit faster), but Kharn Regenerationn could be a problem.

How exacty does his immortality work? If Khorne just resurrects him endlessy, there's no way Medaka can defeat him without her skills.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Regen should be fine, as long as it's not regen from death. Though I don't even know if that matters here due to the daemonic properties of Gorechild (Kharn's axe).

The reason his immortality is listed as "Low 4" is due to the fact that after being killed, he will be resurrected endlessly by Khorne, but it is unlikely to happen within the same battle. It will be at a slightly later point in time, so the first death should count as a win against him for matches he's in.

 

[Kami95]

I see.

Probably Kharn wins mid diff. Medaka is a little bit faster, but she shoudn't be able to deal significant damage to him, and he can regenerate. Medaka can regenerate her body, but she shouldn't be able to regenerate her soul, and her stamina may be lower than Kharn's, so she will eventually be defeated.

Unless Kharn's Regenerationn is slower than I think (I'm assuming he can regenerate broken bones in few seconds or less, since Medaka can do that, and her Regenerationn should be pretty much on the same level).

 

[Kami95]

Oh wait, there's still Autopilot (since it's just enhanced reflexes, it shouldn't be negated). Since reflexes are faster than normal movements, and Medaka is already a bit faster than him, she should be able to dodge Kharn's attacks and counter attack easily.

Maybe she still has a chance.

(Of course, if Kharn's Regenerationn is too fast, that wouldn't work either.)

 

[QPower]

@Kami95
It's portrayed slightly differently in different stories, but it usually runs on certain criteria.

• If the technique will directly affect Kharn, it won't work.

• If the technique will affect the outcome of the fight with Kharn, it won't work.

• If the technique is considered to be magical, psychic, or reality warping, it will almost always be negated.

IIRC, the idea is Khorne is forcing Kharn's opponents to face him in honorable combat without cheap tricks.

So he is a TRUE warrior. Fighting without underheanded-broken-OP-hax techniques. A REAL fight as in 1 on 1, weapons to weapons, and man to man?

 

[Aurugermil]

I think you mean man to woman.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So he is a TRUE warrior. Fighting without underheanded-broken-OP-hax techniques. A REAL fight as in 1 on 1, weapons to weapons, and man to man?

Pretty much. Kharn despises stuff he views as "cheap tricks" and relies solely on his skills and raw power for battle, and his god is more than happy to help that goal be achieved.

 

[Aurugermil]

Medaka just needs to punch Kharn once since her AP is listed as Universe+ level and Kharn defense is listed at Moon level. The end.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Medaka just needs to punch Kharn once since her AP is listed as Universe+ level and Kharn defense is listed at Moon level. The end.

1. Medaka's Universe level+ AP is via skills, not her own power.

2. This is End God Mode Medaka, not EoS Medaka.

 

[Aurugermil]

So the 5C Medaka. What about Medaka Immortality and Regenerationn? Will Khorne rule out that?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So the 5C Medaka. What about Medaka Immortality and Regenerationn? Will Khorne rule out that?

I doubt he negates stuff like that, but Kharn's weapon itself can shred his opponent's soul, so that could be deadly.

 

[Aurugermil]

I don't know about which technique of Medaka that Khorne will rule out and which one won't so I will just put a likely scenario where Medaka could win.

Observation to instantly copy and perfected Kharn's physical feats if Medaka has a less overall stats and battle experience than Kharn (of course may or may not works since Medaka can't copy something that's beyond her physical limits since it will be detrimental to her body, and I don't really remember if this skill can be used to learn something like fighting experience).

The Encounter if she will likely to get hit with Kharn's Gorechild (push any kind of damage away, something like soul attack is arguable but since it is stated that it can push even death so maybe it will be effective).

Kurokami Final to get close to Kharn with her clones and strike him in his blind spot.

Scar Dead.The ability to re-open any wounds ever inflicted on someone, no matter how old. While mental wounds might be useless against Kharn the Betrayer, reopening physical wounds mean insta-kill against batlle-monger such as Kharn.

Yeh, space marines are kool and definitely more experienced in battle, without her skill, Medaka would likely to lose.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Observation could definitely help, though I don't know if it'd be a game changer since a great majority of Kharn's techniques for battle are more power and skill than anything special.

The Encounter could be seriously detrimental, though I'd say there's a good chance it gets denied via the collar. Also not sure how it would interact with the properties of something tainted by the Warp.

Kurokami Final could likely be a viable technique, as it is technically skill instead of flat out hax.

Not sure if Scar Dead would get denied or not, though due to the nature of it, I'd say there's a good chance it doesn't get through. Though even if it did, not sure if it'd be an instant kill. The worst wound Kharn ever suffered was being impaled by blades on the front of a several hundred ton tank and having almost all of his torso and innards torn out, which only temporarily stopped him due to him being stuck. He was still struggling on the blades after this happened, and really quickly healed. That's not to say that slowing Kharn down isn't incredibly valuable in the fight.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Yeah I can't see her keeping any of her big minuses, but maybe some of her weaker abnormalities, if she has the end I can see her winning since she has copied the superior physical capabilities of someone before (specifically Koga's physical capabilities and regen), and she seems to have better regen. If she wouldn't have access to either her regen or The End thanks to Kharn's ability he may take this

 

[Aurugermil]

What? I thought Kharn is killed on the Battle of Tera event after Horus's defeat. Then his fellow World Eaters carried his corpse atop the mounds of Traitor Marines corpse towards the inside of Worlds Eater flagship and it took quite a long time and when one captain argue about Kharn's body and killed other captain or something like that, Kharn's body got revived. His Blood Brothers said that Khorne revived him using a dark miracle.

This is why if Scar Dead can get through, it would insta-kill Kharn.

or Medaka can repeatedly smash Collar of Khorne into oblivion first to ensure her big skills to be usable first.

 

[DarkLK]

Kharn would win if they will be fighting on the same side.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Kharn would win if they will be fighting on the same side.

lol

 

[DarkLK]

Kharn would win if they will be fighting on the same side.

lol

Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

What? I thought Kharn is killed on the Battle of Tera event after Horus's defeat. Then his fellow World Eaters carried his corpse atop the mounds of Traitor Marines corpse towards the inside of Worlds Eater flagship and it took quite a long time and when one captain argue about Kharn's body and killed other captain or something like that, Kharn's body got revived. His Blood Brothers said that Khorne revived him using a dark miracle.
This is why if Scar Dead can get through, it would insta-kill Kharn.

or Medaka can repeatedly smash Collar of Khorne into oblivion first to ensure her big skills to be usable first.

I was referring to single wounds as opposed to something culmulative. I also forgot if they confirmed he was actually dead and not just presumed dead (been a while).

I don't know how delicate the collar is, but considering it's seen almost as many battles as Kharn, I'd assume it's pretty tough. This would also assume Medaka knows the collar is what prevents her skills from being used, which she wouldn't in a random encounter.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!

Dark, you always make my day. Haha.

 

[Aurugermil]

So how strong is this Collar supposed to be?

Can it nullified something like Alpha Psykers in-series?

 

[Blahblah9755]

Also Medaka doesn't like using most of her big skills in the first place (at least not the minuses), so even if she did know, I doubt she would try to destroy Kharn's collar.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So how strong is this Collar supposed to be?
Can it nullified something like Alpha Psykers in-series?

Presumably it can negate anything Khorne can, as he specifically wants his champions to fight in honorable martial combat (and the collar itself was apparently forged at the foot of his throne or something).

Alpha would be extremely doubtful, as Kharn has no-sold stuff from incredibly high level Grey Knights, before. Powers specifically meant to destroy the forces of Chaos.

Not sure about Alpha-Plus, considering how few of those there are in the galaxy, though it probably would (unless you're like...the Emperor, and have a Warp presence equal to that of the Chaos Gods).

 

[Aurugermil]

I guess it is back to her Observation ability which I think is the game changer for this match. As I recall Medaka used this to learn how to play Baseball when she didn't even know what Baseball is so she can learn how Kharn fight and perfected his 10 million years of fighting skill and experience at a glance.

Next she either use her minus Raff-Rafflesia to corrode Kharn's armor and collar or simply honorably pound Kharn into death as the blood god wished since she has a superior 120% fighting ability against Kharn all around now due to her observation ability.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm not sure if the corrosion will work on ceramite or brass from the Warp, but it's worth a shot.

Medaka getting better fighting ability would be incredibly helpful, though I suppose it would be all a matter of if she could power up and finish the job before Kharn lands a hit with Gorechild (and Gorechild specifically).

 

[Blahblah9755]

Raff-rafflesia should work as it is supposed to peed up an objects time till it breaks, via rust, corrosion, rotting, etc. But it would likely count as a cheap trick and would be unusable

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I more meant because I don't know the aging process of Ceramite (Ceramite from tens of thousands of years ago is still completely fine) and I don't know if Warp brass "ages" due to time not being a thing, there.

 

[Aurugermil]

Yes. I don't really remember how fast Observation/The End supposed to procc in her series. All I remember is that it is a perfected ability from Maguro Kurokami Analysis which is the ability to identify skills, abilities, and physical condition instantly.

By definition of her skill, it should be 120% faster than an instant (1/1000000000000000 of a second) and Medaka has at least FTL speed too (End God Mode and its phantom implied to be higher than Altered God Mode which is already FTL) meanwhile Kharn has FTL attack and reaction speed. I think EGM Medaka has a slight edge regarding speed compared to Kharn.

What is this "Faster than Eye in short bursts" supposed to mean from Kharn's profile?

Also Raff-Rafflesia can corrode objects, air, etc with varying controllable area and intensity (of course I don't know if it can corrode those kind of ultra sturdy materials, well probably not unless this skill can evolve further since we already knew that some of the skills can evolve like Hundred Gauntlets become All Fiction but that's beside the point).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

What is this "Faster than Eye in short bursts" supposed to mean from Kharn's profile?

Running/travel speed.

 

[Kami95]

Personally, I think it would go like this:

1. Medaka blitzes with Kurokami Final.

2. Kharn blocks (since his reaction speed is the same as Medaka's move speed), taking little damage.

3. Kharn counterattacks.

4. Medaka reflexively dodges and counterattacks (thanks to Auto Pilot).

5. Return to point 2.

Basically, Medaka should be able to dodge Kharn's attack (since their speed is almost the same, but with Auto Pilot she doesn't have to think before acting), but Kharn takes little damage from her attacks. If Kharn can regenerate from that damage fast enough, Medaka will eventually go out of stamina (since looking at Kharn's profile he seems to have more stamina then her), her body can't keep up with her reflexes anymore and Kharn defeats her with Gorechild. If his Regenerationn is too slow, the damage will keep accumulating and Medaka wins.

Of course I'm assuming that almost all of Medaka's skills are negated by the Collar.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I actually really like this thread, and I don't even know who Kharn is. Good job, Azzy. By the way, leaning towards the Betrayer due to regen and collar. Most minuses are cancelled due to their level of hax (this is like the only time hax is a detriment), and Kharn has better skill.

TBH, I don't know what Gorechild is yet...

EDIT: Just found out. Soul Reaping destroys some of the doubt I had. Slightly more skewed to Kharn's side in my opinion, like went from 5.5/10 to 6.5/10.

 

[Plyen]

I guess it is back to her Observation ability which I think is the game changer for this match. As I recall Medaka used this to learn how to play Baseball when she didn't even know what Baseball is so she can learn how Kharn fight and perfected his 10 million years of fighting skill and experience at a glance.
Next she either use her minus Raff-Rafflesia to corrode Kharn's armor and collar or simply honorably pound Kharn into death as the blood god wished since she has a superior 120% fighting ability against Kharn all around now due to her observation ability.

Now that I think about it, wouldn't Observation count as a particularly cheap form of cheating that goes as far as demeaning the training and experience of a warrior in the eyes of Khorne?

It seems to me to be the kind of thing the Collar was made to stop in the first place.

 

[KazarianFahs]

Kharn's collar was basically made to negate all the kind of stuff medaka uses,on her own pure physical might,she isn't beating kharn.

 

[Plyen]

Well, after reading the arguments here and taking a good look at both of the characters' profile pages, I am giving my vote to Kharn.

 

[Aurugermil]

I am trying to make a new points from what I just read. Feel free to correct me to discuss this further.

The source of the so-called magic and sorcery in Warhammer 40K is the dimensional realm called Immaterium/Warpspace that underlies four-dimensional realspace and is the source of all psychic energy in the universe. Those psykers access this realm and use in the form of psychic energy.

While the Abnormalities in Medaka Box are more like an innate talent, an aspect of themselves. Minuses are obtained through further deterioration of their minds from hardship and trauma, it is a result of the individual's environment. (I think Khorne collar is more likely to affect Minuses rather than Abnormalitites)

Khorne brass collar is usually located on the wearer's neck but Kharn's collar is not located in his neck. (I think I read somewhere that it is kind of immaterial in Kharn's case, so Medaka may not be able to find and destroy it pin-point)

Kharn can still be affected by Psykers in one of the short story, The Wrath of Kharn, by William King. A Slaanesh worshiper was able to cloud his mind, giving him a feeling of intense pleasure and showing him happy visions, in attempt to get him to defect to Slaanesh. This managed to turn his berzerkers against him, but he resisted. When that failed, the Slaanesh worshiper managed to curb his rage and make him tired to make him more vulnerable in a fight, but Kharn still had enough energy to kill the worshiper.

 

[Promestein]

It is likely that the collar not protecting him in that instance was an inconsistency or an oversight.