Merlin ((BBC)) Downgrade

[Spider_Kaiju]

I am still suspicious at Merlin (BBC) being 6C
He may have used telekinesis to move a bunch of clouds into a thunderstorm but he only did that once.
Merlin used this weaponized thunderstorm in an area where magic was more powerful than usual.
"The Isle of the Blessed is thought to be the centre of the Old Religion and the focus of its power, though the sorcerer Taliesin claimed that magic came into existence in the Crystal Cave."
Therefore, Merlin's 6C feat is an outlier.

The Island of the Blessed is the only area in the whole of the Merlin BBC series where he ever uses 6C level telekinesis by moving the clouds. When he came into his full powers at the end of the series, he was only using lightning bolts to take out scores of enemies at once. Furthermore, the Merlin wiki seems to treat Merlin's army decimating lightning magic as more impressive. However, Merlin is canonically said to have the power to literally just get rid of mountains. I suggest that we reduce Merlin's 6C tier to High 7A, which is still very impressive.

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

@MrKingOfNegativity

What do you think about this?

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Ogbunabali @Moritzva @Everything12 @Duedate8898

What do you think about this?

 

[Ogbunabali]

I mean, I don't know anything about the show but I agree that scaling AP via storm feats is always bad unless it's specifically stated it'd scale to their normal AP.

As for the tier 7 stuff, you'd need to post some scans for that first.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. It is appreciated.

 

[Duedate8898]

Watched the show forever ago, but I'm in agreement with Ogbun on this. If Merlin was amped, storm's got to go unless we're giving him an amped key and for what his tier becomes, provide some scans and if needed a calc to see where he truly ends up.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. That makes sense, yes.

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

I'm having trouble finding the scans needed to properly place him, buuut his profile already states he can destroy mountains. That would put him at 7A or High 7A.
I will continue searching for scans.

 

[Antvasima]

No, our names for the tiers are just symbolic. See here:

Mountain and Island Level Requirements

We are going to figure out how much energy it really takes to bust mountains of different sizes. For a minimum size of a mountain to have Mountain level yield at minimum via: (4.184e17 Joules) / (8 Joules/cc) = 5.230e16 cm^3, or 5.230e10 m^3 destroyed. Assuming that a mountain is considered a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

So then he's uh. . . at least 7B, probably 7A at most. It is possible he's High 7A, I suppose, but I've never seen him reach his full powers. Even at the end of the series he's only destroying hundreds to thousands of soldiers.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Again, you'd need to post some scans for that first.

 

[DMUA]

Personally I'd prefer actual scans of that specific location amplifying his power as opposed to a meme being the only image in the OP.

 

[DMUA]

In fact, looking at the wiki page for the Isle of the bless that was linked on Discord...

The Isle of the Blessed is thought to be the centre of the Old Religion and the focus of its power, though the sorcerer Taliesin claimed that magic came into existence in the Crystal Cave.

It's the focus of the old religion, with a single claim that magic in general originated from there. Not that just, all magic gets amped mind you, but just, that old religion is focused there.

Now, that brought me to wonder what Old Religion was, and...

In the times of the Old Religion the High Priestesses would gather on Samhain Eve on the Isle of the Blessed where they could sacrifice a living human being to tear the veil between the worlds of the living and the dead. They also used dark magic to summon from the depths of the Underworld the Fomorroh, a creature they revered which would allow them to take over the minds of their enemies, binding them to their will.

... Now, with that in mind... What does blood magic and necromancy have to do with creating a storm?

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

Personally I'd prefer actual scans of that specific location amplifying his power as opposed to a meme being the only image in the OP.

The information I posted should at least point out that magic is empowered on the Island of the Blessed. There is no information point out how much stronger it is, but considering Merlin only uses the weaponized thunderstorm once in the entire series, at the end of Season 1 when he's still much weaker than at the end of Season 5, when he's only frying scores of soldiers per lightning strike, it should be obvious.

 

[DMUA]

Nothing... actually suggests that in particular, though, from what I can see on the pages you've linked on discord and not here for some reason.

Like, it mentions that it's the focus for the old religion, but not that stuff is more powerful on the isle, it seems to refer more to the fact that followers of it primarily used that location

And that said, nothing said on the wiki is backed up by citations of such a thing being mentioned at the show.

This is a sensitive case of specific statements, in fact, speaking of specifity...

when he's only frying scores of soldiers per lightning strike

is it actually "he's only" and there's a noticeable amount of effort put into it or is he just, not using 6-C power to oblitherate an army at every opportunity because that's incredibly inefficient? One anti-feat with no context to show that's their upper limit doesn't prove much.

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

Nothing... actually suggests that in particular, though, from what I can see on the pages you've linked on discord and not here for some reason.

Like, it mentions that it's the focus for the old religion, but not that stuff is more powerful on the isle, it seems to refer more to the fact that followers of it primarily used that location

And that said, nothing said on the wiki is backed up by citations of such a thing being mentioned at the show.

This is a sensitive case of specific statements, in fact, speaking of specifity...

is it actually "he's only" and there's a noticeable amount of effort put into it or is he just, not using 6-C power to oblitherate an army at every opportunity because that's incredibly inefficient? One anti-feat with no context to show that's their upper limit doesn't prove much.

On The Old Religion" It is the magic of the earth itself, the essence which binds all things together, and maintains the balance of the world."

Magic of the Old Religion | Merlin Wiki | Fandom

"Though not nearly as drastic, the principle of balance can also be seen in the casting of spells. When a sorcerer uses magic, the strength and amount of magic that they used often appears to correspond to the amount of energy that they expend. For example, at the end of Merlin and Morgana's magical duel, Merlin summoned a powerful whirlwind that threw Morgana through the air. The effort of casting such a powerful spell took a toll on the warlock, who immediately collapsed from exhaustion (A Servant of Two Masters)."

Merlin himself is a creature of the Old Religion, and very few of his magic powers and spells have anything to do with necromancy.

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

Nothing... actually suggests that in particular, though, from what I can see on the pages you've linked on discord and not here for some reason.

Like, it mentions that it's the focus for the old religion, but not that stuff is more powerful on the isle, it seems to refer more to the fact that followers of it primarily used that location

And that said, nothing said on the wiki is backed up by citations of such a thing being mentioned at the show.

This is a sensitive case of specific statements, in fact, speaking of specifity...

is it actually "he's only" and there's a noticeable amount of effort put into it or is he just, not using 6-C power to oblitherate an army at every opportunity because that's incredibly inefficient? One anti-feat with no context to show that's their upper limit doesn't prove much.

I hate to double post, so I promise I will keep double posting to a minimum.

All Merlin does to fry hundreds of soldiers is pointing his staff or speaking magic spells. It takes no exhaustion or strength from him whatsoever.

 

[DMUA]

... So like

It does nothing to contradict him being vastly more powerful as the 6-C feat would suggest?

It's just, yes, a 6-C can in fact with ease kill hundreds of soldiers by pointing a stick at them.

And this is further backed up by statement of him being able to tear down a mountain if he so wished.

On The Old Religion" It is the magic of the earth itself, the essence which binds all things together, and maintains the balance of the world."

you quoted the wrong post here, but it is evident that the old religion is a little bit more than initial inspection proved to be

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

... So like

It does nothing to contradict him being vastly more powerful as the 6-C feat would suggest?

It's just, yes, a 6-C can in fact with ease kill hundreds of soldiers by pointing a stick at them.

And this is further backed up by statement of him being able to tear down a mountain if he so wished.


you quoted the wrong post here, but it is evident that the old religion is a little bit more than initial inspection proved to be

Okay, here's the thing though, even an 8B lightning strike could destroy a hundred or more soldiers. Why would it count as Merlin being 6C?
Also, what proves that Merlin is not Large Mountain level and is Island level? What level of destruction is Merlin's highest end?

 

[DMUA]

Because not every attack from a 6-C has to be 6-C. They can just, put less effort, and the fact that killing a few hundred men had no sign of actual strain on them backs that up far more than the feat merely existing proves that 6-C is a complete outlier.

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

Because not every attack from a 6-C has to be 6-C. They can just, put less effort, and the fact that killing a few hundred men had no sign of actual strain on them backs that up far more than the feat merely existing proves that 6-C is a complete outlier.

Okay I'm just confused what counts as proof Merlin is 6C and not something at least a little lower.

 

[DMUA]

The fact he has a direct feat to it, you have not shown any solid, actual evidence from the show that his power was in fact higher than normal, and that there are no true anti feats to actually contradict that 6-C is his upper limit.

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

The fact he has a direct feat to it, you have not shown any solid, actual evidence from the show that his power was in fact higher than normal, and that there are no true anti feats to actually contradict that 6-C is his upper limit.

Erm, we just interpret what the Island of the Blessed is differently. I see it as a place where the magic of the Old Religion is stronger.

 

[DMUA]

Okay, cool, have any actual evidence that solidifies it amplifies people's power while he's there beyond a single quote on a wiki that can be interpreted to not have anything to do with power amplification?

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

Okay, cool, have any actual evidence that solidifies it amplifies people's power while he's there beyond a single quote on a wiki that can be interpreted to not have anything to do with power amplification?

I would think that the language of this quote would point it out that way. That's why I see it that way.

 

[DMUA]

you "think"

not "I have this, this and this from the show to back it up"

just

you "think", based off of vague language where a specific form of magic is is "focused" on this one location.

which can be counteracted by me saying I don't think.

 

[Spider_Kaiju]

you "think"

not "I have this, this and this from the show to back it up"

just

you "think", based off of vague language where a specific form of magic is is "focused" on this one location.

which can be counteracted by me saying I don't think.

Just a little bit of real world research coming into this I had thought that when that phraseology is used it means someone is empowered magically.

 

[DMUA]

The real world is irrelevant to the nature of how magic works. All that is stated, not even in the show from anything you've pulled out, just on a wiki page that may or may not be legit, is that this one area is a focus of that specific form of magic.

It never specifies what a focus actually means

It never specifies that he was able to generate a massive storm he'd entirely be incapable of pulling off due to being at this specific location

It just says, focus, which can easily refer to the practice being based around that location and independent of power

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out DMUA.