Metal Gear: Raiden durability upgrade

[SheevShezarrine]

So I just checked some gameplay, and Ripper Mode (Raiden's version of a Berserk Mode) doesn't seem to harm him at all. Thus, Raiden's durability should be upgraded accordingly. In addition, anyone capable of harming him without durability negation (such as Armstrong) should be upgraded to Town level

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Bump

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Bump

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Bump

 

[KinkiestSins]

I think I am fine with a Possibly 7-C ranking for top tiers like Sam and Armstrong, considering they matched Raiden. Same thing for durability being 'Possibly Town Level' The only reason why it is possibly is simply no feats back up this narrative up other then power scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this seems to make sense.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I will keep this brief.

Armstron and Sam will get Likely/ Possibly 7-C in their profiles due to matching raiden, the former overpowering him completely in base to the point he could not damage him. Armstrong scales to Sam since the two are comparable, WOG apparently says Sam would have won against armstrong if the fight lasted longer, although I cant back up this claim.

Raiden honestly I think should have a small 'upgrade' to likely/possibly town level in durability and ap. Nothing against Blade mode, I am just somewhat skeptical of giving him a free pass because game mechanics power boost.

It isnt too much of a downgrade imo. I just dont see any feats that put him at this level and with all due respect, it is just one game mechanic/statement.

But all in all, mostly upgrades imo. (Not sure if that makes sense since I woke up)

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps you can check the Knowledgeable Members List, and inform the prople who have written their names under Metal Gear about this thread?

 

[KinkiestSins]

Perhaps you can check the Knowledgeable Members List, and inform the prople who have written their names under Metal Gear about this thread?

Sadly, only XCano is on the list, and he is retired. Maybe ARLF?

I can see who has commented on Metal Gear threads in the past and go from there.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Redgrave is listed as a supporter for the verse, I will ask him.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

honestly afaik raiden fought sam without ripper mode and won in the end and the mode enhances statistic so i guess it's fine considering that the only person to put him down in his place before murasama blade was nano machines president rekt house. But yes i feel like possibly town level should be fine as Raiden didn't outright die and was stronger in ripper mode

 

[KinkiestSins]

I will default to Redgrave. Forgot Sam was beaten by base raiden, Honestly, I like kojima, but WoG should be taken with a grain of salt since he lost to Armstrong and Raiden. I will say though he if does have a profile (Idk working off memory). Then he should be At Least Low 7-C. Raiden and Armstrong still scale, both ap and dura imo Edit: https://youtu.be/TTxAlkD-xDI Also, at 10:20 Armstrong took alot of physical attacks from Raiden, further supporting the ranking.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Jetstream Sam though idk if sam can really scale to ripper raiden and nano senator just saiyain

 

[KinkiestSins]

Jetstream Sam though idk if sam can really scale to ripper raiden and nano senator just saiyain

Well here is my reasoning.

A. Base Raiden is Low 7-C, Ripper mode goes 9x multiplier B. Armstrong is unable to damaged. C. Raiden gets Murasama, wins. This merits at least 7-C D. Sam fought both Raiden and Armstrong, although he lost he still seems comparable.

This translated to 7-C end of game MGS imo.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

hmmm maybe 7-C with murasama blade is my guess cause he did damage armstrong but later on lost of base raiden

 

[KinkiestSins]

I can concede there. What about 7-C Armstrong? (Btw, I think these should be new keys imo)

So far, Raiden is 7-C after armstrong with Murasama. Armstrong is 7-C for overpowering prior Jack the Ripper Mode. Sam is Possibly 7-C with Murasama via damaging armstrong.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i mean if he can overpower prior jack the ripper mode it's fine for 7-C then raiden gets full 7-C with murasama while sam gets that with his sword but is base raiden's level

 

[KinkiestSins]

Cool. Can I go through the revisions ant. It will look something like this.

Raiden: Small Town Level in Base, Town Level with Ripper Mode and Murasama (Fought and defeated Metal Gear Excelius in base. Ripper mode amplifies his power by nine and with Murasama, can kill an armored Anderson

Armstrong: Town Level (Tanked hits from Ripper mode raiden with very little damage. Defeated Sam in the past with Murasama.)

Sam: At Least Small Town Level in Base, Town Level with Murusama (Matched Armstrong and Raiden. Murasama damaged armored armstrong slightly and should be comparable to Raiden with the weapon.)

 

[KinkiestSins]

Durability, as you know will get a solid Town Level. Raiden with Ripper Mode, Armstrong because tanked hits from Raiden and Sam, Sam because he fought both Raiden and Sam, tanking hits from both.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that seems fine. I would prefer more community input, but if there are no other active members with sufficient knowledge, that may not be realistic.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Cool. Can I go through the revisions ant. It will look something like this.

Raiden: Small Town Level in Base, Town Level with Ripper Mode and Murasama (Fought and defeated Metal Gear Excelius in base. Ripper mode amplifies his power by nine and with Murasama, can kill an armored Anderson

Armstrong: Town Level (Tanked hits from Ripper mode raiden with very little damage. Defeated Sam in the past with Murasama.)

Sam: At Least Small Town Level in Base, Town Level with Murusama (Matched Armstrong and Raiden. Murasama damaged armored armstrong slightly and should be comparable to Raiden with the weapon.)

Giving an AP rating to a weapon which negates durability as its main motif seems kinda iffy. Plus, Sam didn't force his way through Armstrong's nanomachines, he used his quick draw to cut Armstrong faster than the nanomachines could activate to protect him. So Town level for Murasama is a no-go

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the information.

 

[KinkiestSins]

But Raiden with his previous HF blade could not damage Anderson. Even with ripper mode, he had to use Murasama to beat him. Which by the way, with the multiplier, he is still town level. If he requires to use a weapon to slice through someone, he is at least town level with this logic.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

So Low 7-c possibly 7-c? That seems fair.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Yeah.

Although it would probably be 'Likely'

Previous ripper mode jack couldnt damage armstrong, yet murasama did.

Which keep in mind Raiden also had a hf blade, didnt damage him.

Yet Murasama did.

Sounds like solidly 7-C to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's wait to see what Sheev thinks before we make any changes.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

As I said before, Murasama dealt damage through being faster than the nanomachines, or otherwise being where the nanomachines aren't. Sam cuts Armstrong's arm off? Quick draw, makes the cut before the nanomachines react. Raiden stabs Armstrong through the gut? Nanomachines aren't there to protect him. Plus, well into his fight with Raiden, Armstrong shows signs of fatigue and of losing power (heavy panting, leeching more power from the MG wreckage, etc.), which is another external factor that allowed Raiden to deal damage when he otherwise couldn't before. Thus, no 7-C Murasama. An attack speed upgrade with Murasama is perfectly acceptable, however.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so what changes do you all agree about?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

the thing is sam who lost to base raiden damaged armstrong while it does ignore dura to a certain extent he needed the power to slice that defense down really. I agree to kinkiest proposal really

 

[Antvasima]

I am not well-informed enough to make a reliable judgement call here. Sorry.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

the thing is sam who lost to base raiden damaged armstrong while it does ignore dura to a certain extent he needed the power to slice that defense down really. I agree to kinkiest proposal really

Read my earlier reply

 

[SheevShezarrine]

7:30 Sam only deals notable damage after making an attack before Armstrong's nanomachines can react

 

[KinkiestSins]

7:30 Sam only deals notable damage after making an attack before Armstrong's nanomachines can react

Again, he also scales to Raiden. Because Raiden with murasama couldnt damage armstrong even in ripper mode, and beat armstrong afterward.

So raiden and armstrong scale. And Sam scale to both Armstrong as he fought both Raiden and Armstrong.

I will say a good compromise if it still bugs you is we can have sam at Possibly instead of likely.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Also, attack speed upgrade to what? It is not like it is faster and even if it was, the weapon itself has no calcable feats. Trust me, I looked. MHS+ plus.

Also, keep in mind that when he recieved the Murasama, Raiden could not damage before and when he did get it and started fighting armstrong, he did more damage then when he was in ripper mode.

And sure, armstrong started to lose power. However this was midway through the fight.

He still damaged him more reliably then he did previously. Thus the town level rating. Also, for leeching the power point. Armstrong always leeches power, even in the clip you showed me. This is probably more of a fighting style quirk possibly.

-Heavy Panting? Could be because Raiden is finally damaging him. If you get punched, you started to pant as well if it hit you hard enough. Could be exhaustion too, but sure lets indulge that idea.

Raiden is 1.1 kilitons. Ripper mode buffs it up to 7-9, so lets round generously up to 9 Kilitons. 9 Kiliton blade did not damage him, yet Murasama did. He also broke raidens previous hf blade. This seems to me that the simplest assumption we can make he with Murasama he is beyond 9 Kilitons by an unknown factor. Even if you say armstrong was half as strong, he would still be Small Town Level+. In other words, an upgrade.

No matter how you look it, Raiden, Armstrong and Sam seem to have some scaling that justify a town level ranking. (Although sam is more dubious, I will give you that)

Also, I wanna add that Armstrong > Excelius, right? Saying he isnt town level because he is leeching power from a machine who is barely town level, despite the arguments above is just inconsistent. It seems more likely to me Armstrong, Sam and Raiden are more likely to be town level then not.

Plus. They will still keep their Low 7-C tiers, just with possibly/likely 7-C with Murasama. Edit: Except Armstrong, he is straight up 7-C now because he took Town Level punches like a champ. Edit 2: Even in the same fight you linked me, at 6:20, he damages armstrong in fullbody coat successfuly AFTER leeching for power.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

1) Murasama quick draw is fast enough to cut before nanomachines react, which other HF blades weren't able to do. That places it as being at least slightly faster.

2) Murasama is higher quality than other HF blades (as stated by Kevin), so it probably negates dura better and thus can do a better job at scratching up Armstrong.

3) Pretty sure Armstrong doesn't take any hits that wind him, so if he was panting from the hits, it was due to adrenaline.

4) see 2

5) Indeed Armstrong has scaling for a Town level rating (that's the second point of the post)

6) Power sources that can power multiple attacks of a certain AP should be able to power fewer attacks of a higher AP. Let's say EXCELSUS could power, say, 20 1 kiloton attacks. It should have enough juice to power a few Town level attacks. Thus, still perfectly acceptable to have Town level Armstrong.

7) Armstrong likely faked it. Sam did good in his "final interview", so Armstrong wanted to get a word in and recruit Sam by letting the situation cool off by playing possum for a couple seconds. And even when on the ground, he shows no damage aside from maybe a couple scratches. I didn't see any blood or lacerations.

 

[Antvasima]

Please avoid quoting long posts, as it spams the thread, and makes it harder to read.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Please avoid quoting long posts, as it spams the thread, and makes it harder to read.

Well? I can let you be the final judge.

What do you think? It is your call. I don't know anyone else who knows metal gear.

I think highlighting it is best so we can get more community input would be good.

I also am fine with just closing this for it being too controversial.

(Although I did agree to the change to armstrong being 7-C and raiden having Town Level durability as originally suggested.)

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that I could highlight the thread for a little while.

 

[KinkiestSins]

To summise so people dont have to scroll up too much.

Changes Agreed too: Raiden gets town level durability and Armstrong being upgraded to town level.

Changes being debated upon: Raiden being upgraded to 7-C with Murasama, same with Sam along with durability.