- 2,667
- 775
After months, MONTHS in the works, the CRT is finally here.
Some of you may already know what this is going to be, but for those who haven't heard, here's a quick breakdown: The Metal Gear profiles are extremely lackluster, and I decided it was time to take a closer look at the whole verse, adding missing abilities, fixing scaling etc. It's going to be a LONG CRT, so bear with me.
For the sake of semplicity, I am going to devide the CRT in parts:
Part 1 will be dedicated to adding some non-controversial abilities. This will be the easiest part, since these abilities are either outright stated or shown to be present in the verse, so there won't be much to argue about.
Part 2 will be dedicated to controversial abilities, abilities that are either iffy, weird or require some consensus to be added. Both part 1 and 2 will be devided by character, since
Part 3 will cover some corrections to the existing profiles, such as fixing some justifications for abilities or weaknesses and adding weaponry.
Part 4 will be dedicated to 1 new feat that is going to severely impact the verse and needs to be debated.
Part 5 will be dedicated to proposing the creation of 2 new profiles for the verse.
Part 6 will be dedicated to a list of skill-feats i compiled, along with a skill-scaling-chain for most of the major characters in the verse.
Without further ado, let's do this.
PART 1
Big Boss: Minor death manipulation (via the fake death pill, he can fake his own death), Status Effect Inducement (via equip and CQC, he stuns his opponents), Healing (medium and heavy injuries, healing is a whole mechanic in MGS3, no need to explain this), Accelerated Development (Skill and Statistics; went from being severely less skilled than The Boss to being at least comparable to her in a short timeframe, with The Boss herself confirming that he had gotten both stronger and more skilled since their last fight), Perception Manipulation (via Reflex Mode), Camouflage (Don't think i need to explain this), Sound Manipulation (The Spirit camo makes his steps completely silent and the Sneaking Suit dampens sound all around), Extrasensory Perception (via Sonic Eye and much of his equipment), Non Physical Interaction (can harm The Sorrow's ghosts throughout the bossfight). Resistance to: Mind Manipulation (scaling from Solid Snake), Precognition (scaling from Solid Snake, I'll go into further detail about this ability when i talk about Snake's changes), Radiations (just like The Boss, he was an atomic-test subject, and as such, resistant to radiations), Sleep Inducement (resists The End's sleeping darts, which are even more powerful than his own, which are themselves capable of instantly putting people to sleep), Extrasensory Perception (the sneaking suit prevents him from being seen via thermal scanner).
Raiden: Accelerated Development (Skill, he became proficient with the HF Blade after a few minutes of using it, and we know from one of his Codec calls in MGR that he had never used a sword before), Air Manipulation (via Thunder Strike), Pseudo-Invulnerability (artillery fire bounces off his armour), Attack Reflection (can eject projectiles imbedded in his chest, also via Parry). Resistance to: Paralysis Inducement (can break free from Vamp's paralysis), Analytical Prediction (beat Vamp despite him being able to predict his movements by looking at his muscles)
The Boss: Minor Deconstruction (can disassemble any gun nigh-instantaneously without needing to disharm her opponent first), Resistance to: Radiations (she was the first person to be sent in space, because she could resist the cosmic rays without dying), Sleep Inducement (resists Naked's tranq gun), Status Effect Inducement (doesn't get stunned by Naked's CQC)
Solid Snake: Instinctive Reactions (dodged Sniper Wolf's surprise-bullet [sniper rounds are super-sonic, he couldn't have been warned by the gunshot], instinctively uses CQC when he's getting attacked, despite him actively trying not to use it), Status Effect Inducement (just like Big Boss, from CQC and much of his equipment such as the Stun Knife), Camouflage (self explanatory), Accelerated Development (Skill, scaling from Big Boss, went from being skill-stomped by Ocelot to being able to contend with him), Superhuman Willpower (Naomi states that Snake shouldn't even be able to stand due to the state of his body, his strength of will keeps him together), Fouth-Wall Awareness (displayed countless times throughout the series, such as when he nods at the player in Twin Snakes, or when he recalls his game-overs in MGS4), Self Sustenance (Type 2, Limited Type 3, Snake's nanomachines replenish adrenaline, nutrition and sugar in his bloodstream. He was also injected with benzedrine, which keep him operational without needing to sleep for at leas 12 hours), Resistance to: Sleep Inducement (scaling from Big Boss), Extrasensory Perception (his Octo-camo masks his thermal reading), Precognition (It's made quite clear through the fight that Psycho Mantis CAN read Snake's mind, he outright does it here, but he couldn't read his future. His explaination for why this happens is that "you are the same as us, we have no past, no future, we live in the moment", so from this we gather that Psycho Mantis can't read the future for someone who "lost his future", during her bossfight in MGS3, The Boss states "we're both slowly being eaten away by the karma of others, we'll never have the chance to die peacefully of old age, we have no tomorrow", which sounds ominously like what Psycho Mantis tells Snake, so Naked has this going for him beyond just scaling. Psycho Mantis saying "you are the same as us" also tells us that all the members of FOXHOUND would resist precognition)
Ocelot: Accelerated Development (Skill, became comparable to EG Naked skill-wise, though it's unclear whether this development accured during the Snake Eater Mission or if it began after tthe Virtuous Mission, a week before Snake Eater), Mind and Memory Manipulation (not combat applicable, but he can use it either on himself or others, as seen with Venom), Resistance to: Precognition (justified above).
Volgin: Danmaku (can shoot out many bullets simultaneously all around him), Resistance to: Sleep Inducement (resists Naked's tranq gun), Status Effect Inducement (doesn't get stunned by Naked's CQC), High Temperatures (he can tank his own electricity, tanked a lightning at the end of MGS3).
Psycho Mantis: Immortality (Type 6. His ghost can posses inanimate objects, possessed Screaming Mantis after his death), Intangibility (displayed many times throughout MGS5), Resistance to: High Temperatures (can stai right next to The Man on Fire without ripercussions), Precognition (justified above).
Vamp: Immortality (Type 2. He survives fatal injuries even before regenerating them, such as getting stabbed through the heart), Resistance to: Sleep Inducement (resists Raiden's tranq-gun in MGS2).
Venom Snake: Minor Body Control (due to his arm, which he can shoot out and move in unnatural ways), Status Effect Inducement (via CQC and equipment), BFR (via Fulton-portals), Healing (medium and heavy injuries, via various means), Extrasensory Perception (via sonar).
Liquid: Resistance to: Mind Manipulation (scaling from Solid), Radiations (scaling from big Boss), Sleep Inducement (scaling from Big Boss), Precognition (justified above).
Solidus: Resistance to: Mind Manipulation (scaling from Big Boss), Radiations (scaling from big Boss), Sleep Inducement (scaling from Big Boss)
Gray Fox: Resistance to Empathic Manipulation (will be justified below, but here it is )
All Modern-Nanomachines Users (MGS4-MGR): Resistance to: Empathic and Pain Manipulation (nanomachines can suppress hormones in order to suppress emotions, along with neutralizing pain), Self Sustenance (Type 2, limited 3; should scale above Snake's first-gen nanomachines), Nanotechnology (self explanatory I think).
The characters to get these abilities would be Vamp, Ocelot, and All MGR characters.
All MGR Characters (Cyborgs): Martial Arts Mastery (self explanatory), Immortality (Type 2. We are told by Raiden that the Gemini, 2 very low-tier cyborgs, survived their encounter with Sundowner, which left both of them cut into pieces, with one of the 2 being decapitated. Dok states that the Winds of Destruction can even survive complete physical destruction as long as the brain stays intact, which allows them to inhabit a spare body), Self Sustenance (Type 1. Cyborgs can operate for short periods of time without breathing, but in case they are unable to breathe for whatever reason, they are equipped with a supply of liquid oxygen in their bloodstream to keep them going. Likely Type 2 and Limited Type 3, their nanomachines should scale vastly above Snake's), At Least Partial Inorganic Physiology (Raiden, along with all of the WODs have a completely cybernetic body, whose only organic part is the brain. Blade Wolf should get fully inorganic physiology due to not having any organic parts).
This is it for Part 1, 5 more to go. Told ya this would be long
PART 2
Big Boss: BFR (with normal Fulton, it takes the opponent about 500 feet into the air, this could be considered a BFR, but it would be reinforced if my second "controversial ability" gets approved), He should get Venom's equipment (he was still in contact with the Mother Base crew, so it's not a stretch to say that he would have had access to their weapons and equipment).
Volgin: Immortality (Type 2. He has a gunshot wound in his forehead during his last fight, he also survived his "death" in MGS3 and got turned into The Man on Fire)
Man on Fire: Regeneration (Mid-High. Upon getting sprayed with water, his body is vaporized. The reason why I put it as "controversial" is that it's not made very clear whether this is regeneration or just him teleporting away, however, we can hear him scream in pain as he gets vaporized, so I don't think it's just him teleporting, especially when this effect never happens again despite him teleporting around a whole lot).
Psycho Mantis: Biological Manipulation: (Psycho Mantis seems to remove the Vocal Cord Parasite from inside Eli's lungs, Vocal Cord Parasites are impossible to surgically remove from the host, since they flawlessly mimick the host's membranes. This is a fairly clear cut feat, but i put it as "controversial" because it's from the "Kingdom of Flies" chapter, which is technically not in the finished version of MGS5; it's also not 100% clear that what Psycho Mantis removed was the Vocal Cord Parasite, since it's not textured)
Vamp: A "Possibly Higher" Key for his Regeneration (Snake implies that anything short of complete physical vaporization won't be enough to surpass Vamp's regeneration. Now, THIS is very iffy, but I decided to still present it just because if it was approved it would be huge. The statement is pretty clear really, it's just a matter of "is it enough to grant Vamp this ability?"
Armstrong: Resistance to: Mind Manipulation (politicians who know secret codes are given surgical implants that allow them to resist Psycho Mantis' mind-probe. Now, does Armstrong know some secret code? Maybe, he's a senator, he might very well be aware of something that would warrant a mental insulation, we simply don't have a canonical statement about it)
And part 2 is done, 4 more to go
PART 3
Ocelot: Extraordinary Genius Intellect: the justification for Extraordinary Genius on the wiki is "At this level, many are capable of creating futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, and potentially even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations, or outperforming supercomputers", as his profile itself states, Ocelot basically orchestrated most of the MGS plot, an unimmaginably complex plan, with an unbelievable amount of variables, that ended up working exactly as he had planned. He also outsmarted the Shadow Patriots, a group of Super AIs responsible for basically running every aspect of the modern world, along with being at least 2 steps ahead of every world government at any point in time. Along with this, he's also just about as skilled as Big Boss in h2h combat, he's quite possibly the best sharpshooter in the verse if we only consider skill and ignore physiological advantages; he's an expert in hypnosis, psychotherapy, drugs, espionage and interrogation, capable of doublethinking.
This same profile-change can be argued for The Boss. The Boss' leadership, good judgment and will were deemed sharp enough for her consciousness to be taken as model for an AI charged of singlehandedly managing the world's nuke deterrance. Big Boss could be argued aswell, but from what i know, he doesn't really have this kind of feat.
His justification for his enhanced senses is off: The ability is actually allright, it's just that he didn't smell that Tatyana was a spy, he just smelt the gasoline on her clothes
Big Boss: His weakness sections is completely off: I have no idea where "he tends to underestimate others" and "he's not academically smart" come from. If anything. both Big Boss and Venom, I'll talk about his weakness section being off later, have a tendency to NOT underestimate others, such as Naked being very much weary of EVA even after she helped him multiple times, or Venom dislocating Eli's arm, someone who was objectively not even close to being a threat to him, just to be sure that he wouldn't mess around anymore. I guess this concept of Big Boss "underestimating people" comes from him underestimating Snake in MG1, but for one, that's not enough to warrant a whole ass weakness, it only happened once and doesn't present itself as a negative trend he has, and 2, it wasn't even him who underestimated Snake, it was Venom, so this weakness makes absolutely no sense. Him not being academically smart just baffles me, most if not all of these scenes are for comic relief, and we have instances of him referencing Descartes, along with his creating and supervising multiple successfull military nations. At most he's not knowledgeable about pop culture, not knowing about any movie, and thinking that Strangelove had actually starred in the Strangelove movie.
Venom: His tier should be "Likely 8-B", not plain 8-B: The justification for his tiering right now is that he "briefly matched volgin and is a convincing doppelganger of Big Boss", there are a few problems here: 1- when did he "briefly match Volgin"? Because if you look at the game, The Man on Fire is mostly presented as an unwinnable bossfight, and he can insta-kill Venom if he gets to him, and they might be referring to this scene, but if that's the case, when did he "breifly match" him? All I see is Volgin pushing him to the ground and Venom getting overpowered, the only reason Volgin got off him is because he had realized that Venom was not Naked Snake. So no, there's no instance of Venom "matching" Volgin. Problem number 2 lies in "is a convincing doppelgange of Big Boss", the problem is that he's not convincing to anyone who's close enough to Big Boss to notice the difference, Ocelot was in on the whole thing and we are told in the Truth Tapes that so was Miller, nobody else in the crew would be close enough to Big Boss to notice the difference; he's convincing to normal soldiers, yes, but normal soldiers don't really know what Big Boss is fully capable of. This is at best a justification for a "Likely" rating, which is what i propose here, since he doesn't plainly scale to anyone we know for a fact is 8-B.
His weaknesses are completely off: He has the same weaknesses as Big Boss, which I've already debunked, but ironically enough, Venom's profile doesn't have ANY of Venom's huge, glaring and unique weaknesses: the Ground Zeroes accident left him filled with metallic shards near his heart and brain, the big shard on his forehead may cause permanent brain damage if moved. He suffered enough brain damage that he forgot how to speak russian and has hallucinations due to the shard pressing on his optic nerve. The current weakness section should be changed to reflect all of these elements, which would be extremely relevant in VS threads btw, since anyone who has metal manip can just instantly kill him by messing with his brain or heart shards.
Quiet: She should also get a "Likely 8-B" rating: Now let's look at Quiet, shall we? Her justification is "Overpowered Big Boss before she even received her Parasite, Revolver Ocelot stated that if Quiet wanted, she could have easily killed him, Venom Snake, and everyone on Mother Base", and i have issues with every one of these arguments: First off: She never overpowered Big Boss, this is the full extent of their battle, and at most, she threw him off her back, which doesn't classify as "overpowering" since it's not even like she broke his grip, she just torque her whole body and threw him away, that's it; Then, since I already went over Venom's "Likely" status, her scaling to him is not enough for a full blown tier. Ocelot's statement also has its problems, since he NEVER specifies that she's going to kill them via AP and not guns or even her hax, this is just too vague to be a justification for a full tier. She should get a "Likely 8-B" tier just like Venom.
Psycho Mantis: He actually can break the 4th wall on PS3: Very simple: Psycho Mantis' profile states that "his ability to break the fourth wall only works on the first generation Playstation's hardware", but this is simply incorrect, he CAN break the 4th wall in MGS4 (he talksa bout memory cards, controllers and hardware, which are all clearly 4th-wall-breaking elements), it's simply that he cannot EFFECT the 4th wall anymore, his weakness section should be updated accordingly.
Genius Level Intellect: The FOXHOUND unit along with the Genome Army is wholly composed of geniuses with IQs over 180, this would obviously include Psycho Mantis. This statement isn't the only supporting evidence for such a tier; he was the one who concucted the entirety of the Shadow Moses plot, which ended up working even after his death and the FOXDIE virus.
Vamp: Missing weakness: Vamp's profile should list the fact that he has a deathwish and seeks someone capable of ending his life for good. This is kind of the whole point of his character in MGS2 and 4, I have no idea how this was not already included
Liquid: His durability justification is completely off: The tiering is completely fine of course, but his justification is "Survived his Hind D crashing, multiple Stinger missiles to REX's cockpit, its subsequent destruction, which knocked out Snake, without issue, and similarly tanked a fall from the top of REX that would've killed Snake, making him more durable"; the part about the Hind D and Stinger missiles is fine (although I have a bone to pick with the concept of Snake's weaponry scaling to REX, but i'll get to that later), but the part about REX' destruction kncking Snake out is simply inaccurate, since we see that he got knocked out due to violently hitting his head, there were no signs of him getting knocked-out before that. The part about the fall is just dumb. We have no proof other than his word that Snake would die to that fall, and if he actually did, it would be complete and utter PIS, it's far more likely that Liquid's statement is simply a way to give the player a reason why Snake can't just jump down and run away. Liquid already has more than enough reasons to have that level of durability, these justifications are both inaccurate and superfluous.
Armstrong: His weakness is off: I'll cut straight to the chase: "His nanomachines can run out of power" should be removed. The aforementioned Kojima interview is nowhere to be found, it's never mentioned neither in-game nor on the strategy books and the concept of "nanomachines running out of power" was never a thing, since even obsolete Gen 1 nanomachines recharge via body-heat and don't run out of power; one could argue that Armstrong's nanomachines are more active than Snake's, but I could say that Vamp's are even more active (I think anyone would agree with me that regenerating a splattered brain is a much more complex a task than just "hardening"), and they were never even remotely implied to run out of power. This notion goes against every know property nanomachines have, is not present in any canon source and the interview can't be found anywhere, and even if it were, by virtue of contradicting the established canon of the verse, it couldn't be taken as valid.
The MGR Cast: An "At least Class G" Lifting strength instead of plain Class G: Raiden's Class G feat was performed by a fodder body with only one arm, his Patriots and Customized bodies scale massively above that, massively enough to warrant an "At Least" rating.
Their speed scaling is a mess: I'm responsible for this, and I'm sorry, but I don't know what I was thinking while I made those changes. The WODS scale to Raiden's Sub-Rel rating, which comes from Armstrong, who got this tier by blocking an attack from Raiden that is 10 times faster than base Raiden, which means that Base Raiden's current speed scales to an attack which is canonically ten times faster than Raiden by its very nature; this makes absolutely no sense, especially when we consider that Armstrong is supposed to be slower than Raiden and there is no canonical proof of Raiden going Ripper Mode in that fight. I propose that we at least revert their speed to "At least Missevely Hypersonic+" and then add the various keys for BM's multipliers. Now, since this CRT is going to propose a new speed-feat, this "Massively Hypersonic+" could become something else, but that's an argument for a later time.
Metal Gear REX: A separate MGS4 Key: Why would this be needed? because MGS4 REX is faster than his MGS1 version, fast enough to match RAY. But RAY is just as fast as MGS1 REX, right? Why would that be needed? Well, I'll talk about that later, but i think you can get a hint from the next change to REX' profile.
Missing Weaponry: Free Electron Laser: Otacon states that REX has a Free Electron Laser mounted on his belly, which is what it uses here, btw. Now, according to this, this laser's speed is 0.9999998c, which i don't know if we can round up to LS or we gotta keep at Relativistic+. The addition of this weapon also influences REX' combat speed, obviously, which would become "Likely Subsonic, Massively Hypersonic Attack Speed with Rail Gun, Relativistic+ (or LS, we'll see) with FEL".
Solid Snake and Raiden: Their weaponry shouldn't scale to neither REX nor RAY: I realize this is a big thing to say, but hear me out: Otacon outright states that none of Snake's weapons (this would include the Stinger, since he already had the at that point, he had used it to take down the Hind D) can pierce REX' armor. What Otacon proposes is too destroy the Radome, so that Liquid has to open the cockpit, and Snake can bypass the armor. But doesn't this mean that the Stinger can actually damage REX? Not really, Otacon himself admits that he had willingly given REX a weak spot (the Radome) as a way to make it "complete". Pretty lousy excuse, but that's what it is, and it makes sense, because if the Stinger can damage REX, and Liquid can canonically tank Stinger missiles in that same fight, it would mean that Liquid is just as durable as REX, which is stupid. So no, the Stinger doesn't scale to 8-A, and MGS1 Snake's weaponry doesn't quite reach that level of power. What about Raiden though? After all, he outright destroys several RAY units, right? Yeah, that's true, and my issue is not with the way in which he takes them down, my issue is that the RAY units Raiden fought don't really have a reason to be 8-A. The justification on the profile is that it's "Designed to destroy REX units and is comparable, if not superior to MGS4 Raiden", let's analyze this piece by piece. "Designed to destroy REX units"; this is true, but there's a huge but: this is only true of the original Marines model, which was stolen by Ocelot and later used in MGS4, the RAY units Raiden fought were yes based on the Marine's concept, but it was redesigned to guard Arsenal Gear, instead of fighting other Metal Gears; this means that they were redesigned with the idea of fighting normal human tech such as tanks, jets etc, the Patriots had no reason to optimize RAY against other Metal Gears, since there were no other operationa Metal Gears around during MGS2. TL;DR: There's no way to be certain that the version of RAY Raiden fought scales to REX. The problem with "comparable, if not superior to MGS4 Raiden" is quite evident: this is MGS2, MGS4 Raiden wasn't even a thing at that time. Add to all of this the fact that the Patriots had organized the whole thing so that Raiden would win, and you can easily see how it's not really possible to have those RAYs scale to REX.
So to sum this argument up: Snake only damaged REX via a weak spot, and the RAY units Raiden took down don't scale to 8-A.
Metal Gear RAY: New Keys: In light of the aforementioned changes, it's quite clear that some changes have to be made to RAY's keys. My proposal is that we remove the MGS2 key and only leave the MGS4 and MGR ones, with a note down below that specifies how the models that Raiden fought in MGS2 can't be properly tiered and that the unit that was stated to be made as an anti-REX weapon was the one used in MGS4.
This should be it for part 3, now let's get to the really saucy part.
PART 4
Metal Gear RAY dodges REX' Free Electron Laser: The feat doesn't happen in a cutscene, but in gameplay, you can see it happen right here. If we go frame-by-frame, which I did, we see that RAY only starts to move AFTER the beam is fired. I got this feat calc'd, but it still needs to be evaluated, here is the calc, and the result is 0,72c, Relativistic+.
Honestly, it kinda makes sense that RAY, which is designed to outmaneuver REX, would be able to dodge REX' most advanced and lethal weapon.
Now, I don't think this is considerable an outlier, for one, this is the ONLY speed feat we have for RAY, and we know for a fact that it's a speed-based Metal Gear, far faster than REX (that is, before Otacon came up with some bullshit mumbo jumbo to make REX faster, but tbh, this in itself is proof that REX wouldn't stand a change speed-wise without a significant boost). Secondly, it's worth noting that this feat doesn't hinder the scaling in any way, since only MGR characters (who are consistently shown to be bafflingly faster than anything else in the verse already, hell, even fodder cyborgs such as Gray Fox can completely FTE the fastest humans and be basically invisible to them. I'm not saying that Gray Fox scales to this feat, obviously, I'm just pointing out the fact that even fodder Cyborgs can run circles around the "Massively Hypersonic"s of the verse) and MGS4 REX scale to it, so the jump from Massively Hypersonic to Relativistic makes sense, especially when Raiden's speed rating comes from a feat he performed extremely casually, and even by taking that casual feat, he would be able to reac Sub-Relativistic speeds with Blade Mode (via its canon multipliers). Raiden's (and all of the MGR Cast's really) speed tier doesn't fully reflect what they are actually capable of, this feat would give us a tier to which Patriots Raiden scales equally, not casually.
If this feat is approved, it will scale to MGS4 and MGR RAY (MGR RAY is outright stated to be a superior model to the MGS4 one), MGS4 REX, Raiden in his Patriots and Custom Body (Patriots Body can fight RAY, Custom Body can fight Sam), Blade Wolf (scales to Raiden), Jetstream Sam (scales massively above the Patriots Body and fought RAY) , Sundowner (scales to Raiden), Mistral (scales to Raiden), Monsoon (scales to Raiden), Armstrong (scales to Raiden) and EXCELSUS (somewhat scales to Raiden).
This is it for part 4, i originally wanted to include another "feat", but then i realized that it involved way too much speculation involved and removed it.
PART 5
Peace Walker:
Abilities: Large size (type 0, it's 25 meters tall in his bipedal mode and around 16 meters when in its quadrupedal mode), Inorganic Physiology, Genius Intelligence (has an expert AI based on The Boss), Fire Manipulation (has a flamethrower), Explosion Manipulation (via missiles, rockets and mines), Electromagnetism Manipulation (it has a EM pulse field), Acrobatics (can jump very high), Sound Manipulation (can let out high pitched screams capable of stunning its opponents), Paralysis Inducement (has a paralysing beam), Self Destruction (Has a self-destruct function).
AP: At Least 8-B physically (can harm Big Boss with its leg-swipes), At Least Low 7-B with Intercontinental Missiles (Peace Walker's missiles have one-Megaton warheads, Missiles usually have more than 1 warhead on them, up to 14, hence the "at least" rating), At Least 7-B with Self-Destruction, likely far higher (Peace Walker has a Self-Destruct function with a massive Hydrogen Bomb that's more powerful than the Tsar Bomba, Real Life Hydrogen Bombs could pack anywhere from 100 Megatons all the way up to several Gigatons, hence the "likely far higher", especially since PW's Hydrogen Bomb is noted to be "massive").
Speed: Peak Human Travel Speed (Can reach 25 mph in running speed) With High Hypersonic+ Combat speed and Massively Hypersonic Reactions (Scaling from Big Boss).
Lifting Strength: Class 1 (Can support its own weight, which is 500 short tons).
Striking Strength: At Least City Block class (Can harm Big Boss)
Durability: At Least 8-B (Completely impervious to anything but Big Boss' best weaponry), Possibly 7-B for its Inner Barrier (Huey was extremely unsure whether a nuke could breach the inner barrier or not, stating that it was designed to be "as strong as a bomb shelter" and to "withstand a nuclear war", since MG is a more scientifically advanced setting, it would be fair to assume that nukes in MG woud be equivalent to our high-tier nukes).
Stamina: Unknown, possibly Infinite (It's completely mechanical and doesn't seem to need any fuel to operate).
Range: Tens of meters with melee attacks, hundreds of meters with rockets and weaponry, at least tens of kilometers with Hydrogen Bomb, hundreds of kilometers with Intercontinental missiles.
Standard Equipment: Missiles, S-mines, Flamethrower, EM pulse-field, Paralysis beam, Intercontinental Missiles, Hydrogen Bomb
Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius (PW is an Expert AI based on The Boss).
Weaknesses: Can only launch a nuclear missile or attack as self defense, shutting down the Mammal Pod will greatly hinder its thought pattern and combat capabilities
The Sorrow:
Abilities: Intangibility (Immaterial; he is a ghost), Invisibility (only visible by those he wishes to be seen by), Self Sustenance (1,2 and 3 due to being a ghost), Immortality (Type 1, 2, 7 and 6 scaling from Psycho Mantis), Death and Life Manipulation (Kills upon making contact with his corpse, brough Naked Snake back to life),BFR (Can take people into the "other side", the world of the dead), Summoning (He summons the ghosts of those killed by the target, but he can also summon his own ghosts), Power Absorption (Can channel the spirits of the dead and utilize their skills), Minor Reality Warping (Can crack and repair his glasses, as well as crying blood from his left eye and materializing flying clocks), True Flight (he flies around), Teleportation (He regularly appears from thin air), Weather Manipulation (It rains whenever he appears), Energy Projection (displayed here), Possession (Scaling from Psycho Mantis), 4th Wall Breaking (Displayed continuously throughout MGS3, such as him remarking "back again?" after the player dies and loads the game), Soul Manipulation (Vanquished Psycho Mantis' soul), Precognition (foretold Big Boss' fate of being killed by his son, scaling to Psucho Mantis).
AP: Likely 8-B (can harm Big Boss with his Energy Projection), bypasses durability with many of his abilities.
Speed: Likely Supersonic+, with High Hypersonic+ combat speed and Massively Hypersonic reactions (likely scales to Big Boss).
Lifting Strength: Unknown.
Striking Strength: Unknown.
Durability: Unknown (Intangibility makes him hard to hit).
Stamina: Likely Infinite (His stamina bar is completely empty, just like his health bar).
Range: Extended melee range with Energy Projection.
Standard Equipment: His own corpse.
Intelligence: Genius (As a member of the Cobra Unit in life, he was an incredibly skilled soldier, capable of predicting the course of any battle by talking to the dead beforehand), in death, he seems to have acquired a sort of Omniscience, showing knowledge on things he would have no true way of knowing, such as perfectly knowing (down to the tens of seconds) the time it would take the C3 to detonate, or knowing the combination to Snake's cell-door before Snake had even been assigned to said cell.
Weaknesses: Consumed by sorrow, doesn't usually interfere with the material world.
Why should these profiles be added? Well, peace Walker has a whole game named after it, The Sorrow is just a very powerful and unique character that would bring a lot of value to the verse.
Now on to the last part (finally, jesus christ this took me a week to write down), unfortunately, the last one migh just be the longest.
PART 6
Skill Feats
- Naked Snake fodderized the Ocelot Unit along with Ocelot himself, the Ocelot unit being an elite group composed of the very best among the Spetznaz rank, with EVA stating that their skills with weapons is the stuff of legends and Ocelot of course being superior to them. This same Naked Snake would then go on to get absolutely stomped by The Boss
- Liquid Snake joined the SAS as an 18 year-old, the youngest in history, and excelled in everything
- Even as a 12 year-old, Liquid managed to organize a group of child soldiers into a fierce army capable of taking over settlements. Eli could even outmaneuver and overpower fully grown Diamond Dogs soldiers without any formal training, requiring the intervention of Ocelot in order to stop him.
- According to the official MGS' website's "Versus Battle" (which are now basically impossible to find, but are all listed in the MGS wiki) The Cobra Unit could have singlehandedly won WW2, their missions being so top secret that not even their corpse could be left
- The Boss is usually referred to as "The Mother of Special Forces", this is due to the fact that she either directly or indirectly laid the foundation for every form of special unit in the world, with Zero outright stating that she was the one who put together Rayforce and L Detachment, which laid the groundwork for today's SAS
- Volgin was a boxing champion as a young adult, despite this, he gets completely skill-stomped by Naked and he's terrified of The Boss' combat prowess
- The End invented sniping as a whole and all of its techniques, passing his knowledge onto The Boss. Naked Snake managed to outsnipe him while having a physiological (due to The End's parasite, he was naturally gifted as a sniper) and locational (The End could speak to the forest itself, Snake had never sniped in a forest before) disadvantage
- Venom Snake is merely the best MSF soldier, nothing implies that he's as skilled as Big Boss, as he was only hypnotized into thinking he had done what Big Boss had done. We know from Naomi that genes are the most important factor to a soldier's skill and Venom was only a normal human, as such automatically less skilled than those with Big Boss' genes. This is demonstrated by Eli being capable of outskilling and overpowering fully grown soldiers despite having no training and a rookie Solid Snake being able to beat Venom himself
- Venom Snake outsniped Quiet despite her having a physiological advantage over him and an advantage position
- Raiden had a record-breaking killcount at age 10, he became the leader of a personal unit at that same age. His effectiveness and ruthlessness got him the nickname "Ripper"
- Sundowner invented his own fighting style and is experienced in Chinese swordfighting
- CQC is composed of many martial arts, like Judo, Jujutsu, Aikido, Taekwondo, Muay Thai, Karate, Boxing, Kali, this video goes into detail into every martial art that CQC is shown to contain; on top of them, CQC would also include all of the martial arts used in the army and special forces, as most of them were created by The Boss, the co-creator of CQC.
Scaling Chain
Venom Snake<Rookie Solid<=Genome Soldiers<Solidus<Raiden<Liquid=FOXHOUND<=MGS1,2,Solid<MGS4 Solid<<MGS4 Ocelot=End of MGS3 Ocelot<=End of MGS4 Solid <The Boss<Big Boss
There are some points that are worth explaining here. First off, why did i put Venom at the bottom? Well, the first thing we gotta set is that Venom is not equal to Big Boss in terms of skills, nowhere is this stated in MGS5, Venom was merely the best MSF soldier and he was only hypnotized into thinking he had the same experiences as Big Boss, I don't think I need to tell you how being hypnotized into thinking you experienced something is not comparable to actually experiencing it. There's also the matter of the "soldier genes", which automatically make the "user" exponentially more skilled than anyone else, as displayed with Eli and a Rookie Solid Snake, who actually beat Venom Snake.
Why don't i automatically put Snake above Big Boss? After all, Snake beat him in MG2, right? Yeah, kinda, but let's keep in mind that in MG2 Snake fought a very old and washed Big Boss. The idea of MG2 Solid Snake being better than Big Boss is also pretty much completely debunked by what happens in MGS4.
Why the Genome Soldiers above rookie Snake? To be honest, they aren't really listed as "above" him, merely "possibly slightly better", mainly due to the Genome Soldiers having more training than Snake along with the Soldier Gene.
MGS4 Solid is listed as above MGS1,2 Solid because of the fact that in MGS1 and 2 he was willingly "nerfing" himself by not using CQC, which is a HUGE part of his combat arsenal, so despite being physically weaker, MGS4 Snake is significantly more skilled than his MGS1 and 2 self.
Ocelot skill-stomped Snake into the ground, and no, it wasn't due to Snake being weaker or anything of the sorts, because Ocelot had the same physical age as Snake, Snake had the muscle suit to boost his attributes and Ocelot straight up states "But when it comes to CQC, I've got the upper hand", so no, AP had nothing to do with it.
Why do I list MGS4 Ocelot as equal to EOMGS3 Ocelot? Well, it's because neither would really be "peak" Ocelot: In MGS4 Ocelot hadn't fought h2h in at least 20 years, so saying he was rusty is an understatement, whereas in MGS3 Ocelot had just learnt CQC, which means that he wouldn't logically be as good as his, let's say, MGS5 self. So yeah, I think it's reasonable to say that MGS4 Ocelot would be AT BEST equal to MGS3 Ocelot if not weaker; yeah, it's a speculation on my part, but an oculated one, I think.
Why do I put EOMGS4 Snake below The Boss and Big Boss? Due to Big Boss' substantially better performance against Ocelot. As I've said, I consider MGS3 and MGS4 Ocelot to be equal skill-wise, which, conveniently, is quite handy when it comes to comparing Snake and Big Boss. Snake Barely beat Ocelot, with their fight ending in a slug-fest and mainly due to Ocelot being effected by FOXDIE; while yes, this shows that Snake has become superior to Ocelot, it demonstrates that the gap isn't that big, they are more comparable than anything else. Big Boss on the other hand cleanly beat Ocelot, and he wasn't even fighting seriously, while yes, Ocelot does kinda hold his own, it's mostly due to Big Boss beng surprised by his usage of CQC, and even then, it's quite clear that Snake had the upper hand.
The Boss is above MGS4 Snake due to scaling to a serious Big Boss, making her scale significantly above MGS3 Ocelot and so on and so forth.
There are a few things I'd like to point out about some of the characters I left out: The Cobras would be above FOXHOUD IMO due to better statements and feats overall, whereas the WODs are a bit more tricky, since they are blade focussed and not h2h like every other quantifiable MG character, but I'll try nontheless. The starting point in regards to swordsmanship in MG is Solidus. We don't know much about his skills, what we know is that he was in the CIA, that he's the perfect clone of Big Boss and that he's very fond of blades; this is enough to place him around the level of the best swordsmen in the world, due to the Soldier Gene. MGS2 Raiden beat him quite cleanly. Now, MGS4 Raiden scales way, WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY above MGS2 Raiden in terms of swordsmanship, which is not only pretty evident from his fight scenes, but also by the fact that he had traveled all around the world to hone his skills. Patriots Body Raiden would be at least equal to that, if not superior. Sam absolutely fodderized him, and the WODs would be less skilled than Sam, but still comparable to him, which means that the WODs in general scale massively above Patriots Body Raiden. MGR Raiden then scales to Sam, and this closes the skill chain.
Solidus<MGS2 Raiden<MGS4 Raiden<=Patriots Raiden<<WODs<Sam<=MGR Raiden
Now, this scaling chain is not a gospel, there could be something wrong, and make your proposals if you want to.
Finally done.
I don't even know if anyone will be willing to read through ALL of this, but still, hope someone does.
In case you have any doubts or you don't agree with something, we can debate this.
Some of you may already know what this is going to be, but for those who haven't heard, here's a quick breakdown: The Metal Gear profiles are extremely lackluster, and I decided it was time to take a closer look at the whole verse, adding missing abilities, fixing scaling etc. It's going to be a LONG CRT, so bear with me.
For the sake of semplicity, I am going to devide the CRT in parts:
Part 1 will be dedicated to adding some non-controversial abilities. This will be the easiest part, since these abilities are either outright stated or shown to be present in the verse, so there won't be much to argue about.
Part 2 will be dedicated to controversial abilities, abilities that are either iffy, weird or require some consensus to be added. Both part 1 and 2 will be devided by character, since
Part 3 will cover some corrections to the existing profiles, such as fixing some justifications for abilities or weaknesses and adding weaponry.
Part 4 will be dedicated to 1 new feat that is going to severely impact the verse and needs to be debated.
Part 5 will be dedicated to proposing the creation of 2 new profiles for the verse.
Part 6 will be dedicated to a list of skill-feats i compiled, along with a skill-scaling-chain for most of the major characters in the verse.
Without further ado, let's do this.
PART 1
Big Boss: Minor death manipulation (via the fake death pill, he can fake his own death), Status Effect Inducement (via equip and CQC, he stuns his opponents), Healing (medium and heavy injuries, healing is a whole mechanic in MGS3, no need to explain this), Accelerated Development (Skill and Statistics; went from being severely less skilled than The Boss to being at least comparable to her in a short timeframe, with The Boss herself confirming that he had gotten both stronger and more skilled since their last fight), Perception Manipulation (via Reflex Mode), Camouflage (Don't think i need to explain this), Sound Manipulation (The Spirit camo makes his steps completely silent and the Sneaking Suit dampens sound all around), Extrasensory Perception (via Sonic Eye and much of his equipment), Non Physical Interaction (can harm The Sorrow's ghosts throughout the bossfight). Resistance to: Mind Manipulation (scaling from Solid Snake), Precognition (scaling from Solid Snake, I'll go into further detail about this ability when i talk about Snake's changes), Radiations (just like The Boss, he was an atomic-test subject, and as such, resistant to radiations), Sleep Inducement (resists The End's sleeping darts, which are even more powerful than his own, which are themselves capable of instantly putting people to sleep), Extrasensory Perception (the sneaking suit prevents him from being seen via thermal scanner).
Raiden: Accelerated Development (Skill, he became proficient with the HF Blade after a few minutes of using it, and we know from one of his Codec calls in MGR that he had never used a sword before), Air Manipulation (via Thunder Strike), Pseudo-Invulnerability (artillery fire bounces off his armour), Attack Reflection (can eject projectiles imbedded in his chest, also via Parry). Resistance to: Paralysis Inducement (can break free from Vamp's paralysis), Analytical Prediction (beat Vamp despite him being able to predict his movements by looking at his muscles)
The Boss: Minor Deconstruction (can disassemble any gun nigh-instantaneously without needing to disharm her opponent first), Resistance to: Radiations (she was the first person to be sent in space, because she could resist the cosmic rays without dying), Sleep Inducement (resists Naked's tranq gun), Status Effect Inducement (doesn't get stunned by Naked's CQC)
Solid Snake: Instinctive Reactions (dodged Sniper Wolf's surprise-bullet [sniper rounds are super-sonic, he couldn't have been warned by the gunshot], instinctively uses CQC when he's getting attacked, despite him actively trying not to use it), Status Effect Inducement (just like Big Boss, from CQC and much of his equipment such as the Stun Knife), Camouflage (self explanatory), Accelerated Development (Skill, scaling from Big Boss, went from being skill-stomped by Ocelot to being able to contend with him), Superhuman Willpower (Naomi states that Snake shouldn't even be able to stand due to the state of his body, his strength of will keeps him together), Fouth-Wall Awareness (displayed countless times throughout the series, such as when he nods at the player in Twin Snakes, or when he recalls his game-overs in MGS4), Self Sustenance (Type 2, Limited Type 3, Snake's nanomachines replenish adrenaline, nutrition and sugar in his bloodstream. He was also injected with benzedrine, which keep him operational without needing to sleep for at leas 12 hours), Resistance to: Sleep Inducement (scaling from Big Boss), Extrasensory Perception (his Octo-camo masks his thermal reading), Precognition (It's made quite clear through the fight that Psycho Mantis CAN read Snake's mind, he outright does it here, but he couldn't read his future. His explaination for why this happens is that "you are the same as us, we have no past, no future, we live in the moment", so from this we gather that Psycho Mantis can't read the future for someone who "lost his future", during her bossfight in MGS3, The Boss states "we're both slowly being eaten away by the karma of others, we'll never have the chance to die peacefully of old age, we have no tomorrow", which sounds ominously like what Psycho Mantis tells Snake, so Naked has this going for him beyond just scaling. Psycho Mantis saying "you are the same as us" also tells us that all the members of FOXHOUND would resist precognition)
Ocelot: Accelerated Development (Skill, became comparable to EG Naked skill-wise, though it's unclear whether this development accured during the Snake Eater Mission or if it began after tthe Virtuous Mission, a week before Snake Eater), Mind and Memory Manipulation (not combat applicable, but he can use it either on himself or others, as seen with Venom), Resistance to: Precognition (justified above).
Volgin: Danmaku (can shoot out many bullets simultaneously all around him), Resistance to: Sleep Inducement (resists Naked's tranq gun), Status Effect Inducement (doesn't get stunned by Naked's CQC), High Temperatures (he can tank his own electricity, tanked a lightning at the end of MGS3).
Psycho Mantis: Immortality (Type 6. His ghost can posses inanimate objects, possessed Screaming Mantis after his death), Intangibility (displayed many times throughout MGS5), Resistance to: High Temperatures (can stai right next to The Man on Fire without ripercussions), Precognition (justified above).
Vamp: Immortality (Type 2. He survives fatal injuries even before regenerating them, such as getting stabbed through the heart), Resistance to: Sleep Inducement (resists Raiden's tranq-gun in MGS2).
Venom Snake: Minor Body Control (due to his arm, which he can shoot out and move in unnatural ways), Status Effect Inducement (via CQC and equipment), BFR (via Fulton-portals), Healing (medium and heavy injuries, via various means), Extrasensory Perception (via sonar).
Liquid: Resistance to: Mind Manipulation (scaling from Solid), Radiations (scaling from big Boss), Sleep Inducement (scaling from Big Boss), Precognition (justified above).
Solidus: Resistance to: Mind Manipulation (scaling from Big Boss), Radiations (scaling from big Boss), Sleep Inducement (scaling from Big Boss)
Gray Fox: Resistance to Empathic Manipulation (will be justified below, but here it is )
All Modern-Nanomachines Users (MGS4-MGR): Resistance to: Empathic and Pain Manipulation (nanomachines can suppress hormones in order to suppress emotions, along with neutralizing pain), Self Sustenance (Type 2, limited 3; should scale above Snake's first-gen nanomachines), Nanotechnology (self explanatory I think).
The characters to get these abilities would be Vamp, Ocelot, and All MGR characters.
All MGR Characters (Cyborgs): Martial Arts Mastery (self explanatory), Immortality (Type 2. We are told by Raiden that the Gemini, 2 very low-tier cyborgs, survived their encounter with Sundowner, which left both of them cut into pieces, with one of the 2 being decapitated. Dok states that the Winds of Destruction can even survive complete physical destruction as long as the brain stays intact, which allows them to inhabit a spare body), Self Sustenance (Type 1. Cyborgs can operate for short periods of time without breathing, but in case they are unable to breathe for whatever reason, they are equipped with a supply of liquid oxygen in their bloodstream to keep them going. Likely Type 2 and Limited Type 3, their nanomachines should scale vastly above Snake's), At Least Partial Inorganic Physiology (Raiden, along with all of the WODs have a completely cybernetic body, whose only organic part is the brain. Blade Wolf should get fully inorganic physiology due to not having any organic parts).
This is it for Part 1, 5 more to go. Told ya this would be long
PART 2
Big Boss: BFR (with normal Fulton, it takes the opponent about 500 feet into the air, this could be considered a BFR, but it would be reinforced if my second "controversial ability" gets approved), He should get Venom's equipment (he was still in contact with the Mother Base crew, so it's not a stretch to say that he would have had access to their weapons and equipment).
Volgin: Immortality (Type 2. He has a gunshot wound in his forehead during his last fight, he also survived his "death" in MGS3 and got turned into The Man on Fire)
Man on Fire: Regeneration (Mid-High. Upon getting sprayed with water, his body is vaporized. The reason why I put it as "controversial" is that it's not made very clear whether this is regeneration or just him teleporting away, however, we can hear him scream in pain as he gets vaporized, so I don't think it's just him teleporting, especially when this effect never happens again despite him teleporting around a whole lot).
Psycho Mantis: Biological Manipulation: (Psycho Mantis seems to remove the Vocal Cord Parasite from inside Eli's lungs, Vocal Cord Parasites are impossible to surgically remove from the host, since they flawlessly mimick the host's membranes. This is a fairly clear cut feat, but i put it as "controversial" because it's from the "Kingdom of Flies" chapter, which is technically not in the finished version of MGS5; it's also not 100% clear that what Psycho Mantis removed was the Vocal Cord Parasite, since it's not textured)
Vamp: A "Possibly Higher" Key for his Regeneration (Snake implies that anything short of complete physical vaporization won't be enough to surpass Vamp's regeneration. Now, THIS is very iffy, but I decided to still present it just because if it was approved it would be huge. The statement is pretty clear really, it's just a matter of "is it enough to grant Vamp this ability?"
Armstrong: Resistance to: Mind Manipulation (politicians who know secret codes are given surgical implants that allow them to resist Psycho Mantis' mind-probe. Now, does Armstrong know some secret code? Maybe, he's a senator, he might very well be aware of something that would warrant a mental insulation, we simply don't have a canonical statement about it)
And part 2 is done, 4 more to go
PART 3
Ocelot: Extraordinary Genius Intellect: the justification for Extraordinary Genius on the wiki is "At this level, many are capable of creating futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, and potentially even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations, or outperforming supercomputers", as his profile itself states, Ocelot basically orchestrated most of the MGS plot, an unimmaginably complex plan, with an unbelievable amount of variables, that ended up working exactly as he had planned. He also outsmarted the Shadow Patriots, a group of Super AIs responsible for basically running every aspect of the modern world, along with being at least 2 steps ahead of every world government at any point in time. Along with this, he's also just about as skilled as Big Boss in h2h combat, he's quite possibly the best sharpshooter in the verse if we only consider skill and ignore physiological advantages; he's an expert in hypnosis, psychotherapy, drugs, espionage and interrogation, capable of doublethinking.
This same profile-change can be argued for The Boss. The Boss' leadership, good judgment and will were deemed sharp enough for her consciousness to be taken as model for an AI charged of singlehandedly managing the world's nuke deterrance. Big Boss could be argued aswell, but from what i know, he doesn't really have this kind of feat.
His justification for his enhanced senses is off: The ability is actually allright, it's just that he didn't smell that Tatyana was a spy, he just smelt the gasoline on her clothes
Big Boss: His weakness sections is completely off: I have no idea where "he tends to underestimate others" and "he's not academically smart" come from. If anything. both Big Boss and Venom, I'll talk about his weakness section being off later, have a tendency to NOT underestimate others, such as Naked being very much weary of EVA even after she helped him multiple times, or Venom dislocating Eli's arm, someone who was objectively not even close to being a threat to him, just to be sure that he wouldn't mess around anymore. I guess this concept of Big Boss "underestimating people" comes from him underestimating Snake in MG1, but for one, that's not enough to warrant a whole ass weakness, it only happened once and doesn't present itself as a negative trend he has, and 2, it wasn't even him who underestimated Snake, it was Venom, so this weakness makes absolutely no sense. Him not being academically smart just baffles me, most if not all of these scenes are for comic relief, and we have instances of him referencing Descartes, along with his creating and supervising multiple successfull military nations. At most he's not knowledgeable about pop culture, not knowing about any movie, and thinking that Strangelove had actually starred in the Strangelove movie.
Venom: His tier should be "Likely 8-B", not plain 8-B: The justification for his tiering right now is that he "briefly matched volgin and is a convincing doppelganger of Big Boss", there are a few problems here: 1- when did he "briefly match Volgin"? Because if you look at the game, The Man on Fire is mostly presented as an unwinnable bossfight, and he can insta-kill Venom if he gets to him, and they might be referring to this scene, but if that's the case, when did he "breifly match" him? All I see is Volgin pushing him to the ground and Venom getting overpowered, the only reason Volgin got off him is because he had realized that Venom was not Naked Snake. So no, there's no instance of Venom "matching" Volgin. Problem number 2 lies in "is a convincing doppelgange of Big Boss", the problem is that he's not convincing to anyone who's close enough to Big Boss to notice the difference, Ocelot was in on the whole thing and we are told in the Truth Tapes that so was Miller, nobody else in the crew would be close enough to Big Boss to notice the difference; he's convincing to normal soldiers, yes, but normal soldiers don't really know what Big Boss is fully capable of. This is at best a justification for a "Likely" rating, which is what i propose here, since he doesn't plainly scale to anyone we know for a fact is 8-B.
His weaknesses are completely off: He has the same weaknesses as Big Boss, which I've already debunked, but ironically enough, Venom's profile doesn't have ANY of Venom's huge, glaring and unique weaknesses: the Ground Zeroes accident left him filled with metallic shards near his heart and brain, the big shard on his forehead may cause permanent brain damage if moved. He suffered enough brain damage that he forgot how to speak russian and has hallucinations due to the shard pressing on his optic nerve. The current weakness section should be changed to reflect all of these elements, which would be extremely relevant in VS threads btw, since anyone who has metal manip can just instantly kill him by messing with his brain or heart shards.
Quiet: She should also get a "Likely 8-B" rating: Now let's look at Quiet, shall we? Her justification is "Overpowered Big Boss before she even received her Parasite, Revolver Ocelot stated that if Quiet wanted, she could have easily killed him, Venom Snake, and everyone on Mother Base", and i have issues with every one of these arguments: First off: She never overpowered Big Boss, this is the full extent of their battle, and at most, she threw him off her back, which doesn't classify as "overpowering" since it's not even like she broke his grip, she just torque her whole body and threw him away, that's it; Then, since I already went over Venom's "Likely" status, her scaling to him is not enough for a full blown tier. Ocelot's statement also has its problems, since he NEVER specifies that she's going to kill them via AP and not guns or even her hax, this is just too vague to be a justification for a full tier. She should get a "Likely 8-B" tier just like Venom.
Psycho Mantis: He actually can break the 4th wall on PS3: Very simple: Psycho Mantis' profile states that "his ability to break the fourth wall only works on the first generation Playstation's hardware", but this is simply incorrect, he CAN break the 4th wall in MGS4 (he talksa bout memory cards, controllers and hardware, which are all clearly 4th-wall-breaking elements), it's simply that he cannot EFFECT the 4th wall anymore, his weakness section should be updated accordingly.
Genius Level Intellect: The FOXHOUND unit along with the Genome Army is wholly composed of geniuses with IQs over 180, this would obviously include Psycho Mantis. This statement isn't the only supporting evidence for such a tier; he was the one who concucted the entirety of the Shadow Moses plot, which ended up working even after his death and the FOXDIE virus.
Vamp: Missing weakness: Vamp's profile should list the fact that he has a deathwish and seeks someone capable of ending his life for good. This is kind of the whole point of his character in MGS2 and 4, I have no idea how this was not already included
Liquid: His durability justification is completely off: The tiering is completely fine of course, but his justification is "Survived his Hind D crashing, multiple Stinger missiles to REX's cockpit, its subsequent destruction, which knocked out Snake, without issue, and similarly tanked a fall from the top of REX that would've killed Snake, making him more durable"; the part about the Hind D and Stinger missiles is fine (although I have a bone to pick with the concept of Snake's weaponry scaling to REX, but i'll get to that later), but the part about REX' destruction kncking Snake out is simply inaccurate, since we see that he got knocked out due to violently hitting his head, there were no signs of him getting knocked-out before that. The part about the fall is just dumb. We have no proof other than his word that Snake would die to that fall, and if he actually did, it would be complete and utter PIS, it's far more likely that Liquid's statement is simply a way to give the player a reason why Snake can't just jump down and run away. Liquid already has more than enough reasons to have that level of durability, these justifications are both inaccurate and superfluous.
Armstrong: His weakness is off: I'll cut straight to the chase: "His nanomachines can run out of power" should be removed. The aforementioned Kojima interview is nowhere to be found, it's never mentioned neither in-game nor on the strategy books and the concept of "nanomachines running out of power" was never a thing, since even obsolete Gen 1 nanomachines recharge via body-heat and don't run out of power; one could argue that Armstrong's nanomachines are more active than Snake's, but I could say that Vamp's are even more active (I think anyone would agree with me that regenerating a splattered brain is a much more complex a task than just "hardening"), and they were never even remotely implied to run out of power. This notion goes against every know property nanomachines have, is not present in any canon source and the interview can't be found anywhere, and even if it were, by virtue of contradicting the established canon of the verse, it couldn't be taken as valid.
The MGR Cast: An "At least Class G" Lifting strength instead of plain Class G: Raiden's Class G feat was performed by a fodder body with only one arm, his Patriots and Customized bodies scale massively above that, massively enough to warrant an "At Least" rating.
Their speed scaling is a mess: I'm responsible for this, and I'm sorry, but I don't know what I was thinking while I made those changes. The WODS scale to Raiden's Sub-Rel rating, which comes from Armstrong, who got this tier by blocking an attack from Raiden that is 10 times faster than base Raiden, which means that Base Raiden's current speed scales to an attack which is canonically ten times faster than Raiden by its very nature; this makes absolutely no sense, especially when we consider that Armstrong is supposed to be slower than Raiden and there is no canonical proof of Raiden going Ripper Mode in that fight. I propose that we at least revert their speed to "At least Missevely Hypersonic+" and then add the various keys for BM's multipliers. Now, since this CRT is going to propose a new speed-feat, this "Massively Hypersonic+" could become something else, but that's an argument for a later time.
Metal Gear REX: A separate MGS4 Key: Why would this be needed? because MGS4 REX is faster than his MGS1 version, fast enough to match RAY. But RAY is just as fast as MGS1 REX, right? Why would that be needed? Well, I'll talk about that later, but i think you can get a hint from the next change to REX' profile.
Missing Weaponry: Free Electron Laser: Otacon states that REX has a Free Electron Laser mounted on his belly, which is what it uses here, btw. Now, according to this, this laser's speed is 0.9999998c, which i don't know if we can round up to LS or we gotta keep at Relativistic+. The addition of this weapon also influences REX' combat speed, obviously, which would become "Likely Subsonic, Massively Hypersonic Attack Speed with Rail Gun, Relativistic+ (or LS, we'll see) with FEL".
Solid Snake and Raiden: Their weaponry shouldn't scale to neither REX nor RAY: I realize this is a big thing to say, but hear me out: Otacon outright states that none of Snake's weapons (this would include the Stinger, since he already had the at that point, he had used it to take down the Hind D) can pierce REX' armor. What Otacon proposes is too destroy the Radome, so that Liquid has to open the cockpit, and Snake can bypass the armor. But doesn't this mean that the Stinger can actually damage REX? Not really, Otacon himself admits that he had willingly given REX a weak spot (the Radome) as a way to make it "complete". Pretty lousy excuse, but that's what it is, and it makes sense, because if the Stinger can damage REX, and Liquid can canonically tank Stinger missiles in that same fight, it would mean that Liquid is just as durable as REX, which is stupid. So no, the Stinger doesn't scale to 8-A, and MGS1 Snake's weaponry doesn't quite reach that level of power. What about Raiden though? After all, he outright destroys several RAY units, right? Yeah, that's true, and my issue is not with the way in which he takes them down, my issue is that the RAY units Raiden fought don't really have a reason to be 8-A. The justification on the profile is that it's "Designed to destroy REX units and is comparable, if not superior to MGS4 Raiden", let's analyze this piece by piece. "Designed to destroy REX units"; this is true, but there's a huge but: this is only true of the original Marines model, which was stolen by Ocelot and later used in MGS4, the RAY units Raiden fought were yes based on the Marine's concept, but it was redesigned to guard Arsenal Gear, instead of fighting other Metal Gears; this means that they were redesigned with the idea of fighting normal human tech such as tanks, jets etc, the Patriots had no reason to optimize RAY against other Metal Gears, since there were no other operationa Metal Gears around during MGS2. TL;DR: There's no way to be certain that the version of RAY Raiden fought scales to REX. The problem with "comparable, if not superior to MGS4 Raiden" is quite evident: this is MGS2, MGS4 Raiden wasn't even a thing at that time. Add to all of this the fact that the Patriots had organized the whole thing so that Raiden would win, and you can easily see how it's not really possible to have those RAYs scale to REX.
So to sum this argument up: Snake only damaged REX via a weak spot, and the RAY units Raiden took down don't scale to 8-A.
Metal Gear RAY: New Keys: In light of the aforementioned changes, it's quite clear that some changes have to be made to RAY's keys. My proposal is that we remove the MGS2 key and only leave the MGS4 and MGR ones, with a note down below that specifies how the models that Raiden fought in MGS2 can't be properly tiered and that the unit that was stated to be made as an anti-REX weapon was the one used in MGS4.
This should be it for part 3, now let's get to the really saucy part.
PART 4
Metal Gear RAY dodges REX' Free Electron Laser: The feat doesn't happen in a cutscene, but in gameplay, you can see it happen right here. If we go frame-by-frame, which I did, we see that RAY only starts to move AFTER the beam is fired. I got this feat calc'd, but it still needs to be evaluated, here is the calc, and the result is 0,72c, Relativistic+.
Honestly, it kinda makes sense that RAY, which is designed to outmaneuver REX, would be able to dodge REX' most advanced and lethal weapon.
Now, I don't think this is considerable an outlier, for one, this is the ONLY speed feat we have for RAY, and we know for a fact that it's a speed-based Metal Gear, far faster than REX (that is, before Otacon came up with some bullshit mumbo jumbo to make REX faster, but tbh, this in itself is proof that REX wouldn't stand a change speed-wise without a significant boost). Secondly, it's worth noting that this feat doesn't hinder the scaling in any way, since only MGR characters (who are consistently shown to be bafflingly faster than anything else in the verse already, hell, even fodder cyborgs such as Gray Fox can completely FTE the fastest humans and be basically invisible to them. I'm not saying that Gray Fox scales to this feat, obviously, I'm just pointing out the fact that even fodder Cyborgs can run circles around the "Massively Hypersonic"s of the verse) and MGS4 REX scale to it, so the jump from Massively Hypersonic to Relativistic makes sense, especially when Raiden's speed rating comes from a feat he performed extremely casually, and even by taking that casual feat, he would be able to reac Sub-Relativistic speeds with Blade Mode (via its canon multipliers). Raiden's (and all of the MGR Cast's really) speed tier doesn't fully reflect what they are actually capable of, this feat would give us a tier to which Patriots Raiden scales equally, not casually.
If this feat is approved, it will scale to MGS4 and MGR RAY (MGR RAY is outright stated to be a superior model to the MGS4 one), MGS4 REX, Raiden in his Patriots and Custom Body (Patriots Body can fight RAY, Custom Body can fight Sam), Blade Wolf (scales to Raiden), Jetstream Sam (scales massively above the Patriots Body and fought RAY) , Sundowner (scales to Raiden), Mistral (scales to Raiden), Monsoon (scales to Raiden), Armstrong (scales to Raiden) and EXCELSUS (somewhat scales to Raiden).
This is it for part 4, i originally wanted to include another "feat", but then i realized that it involved way too much speculation involved and removed it.
PART 5
Peace Walker:
Abilities: Large size (type 0, it's 25 meters tall in his bipedal mode and around 16 meters when in its quadrupedal mode), Inorganic Physiology, Genius Intelligence (has an expert AI based on The Boss), Fire Manipulation (has a flamethrower), Explosion Manipulation (via missiles, rockets and mines), Electromagnetism Manipulation (it has a EM pulse field), Acrobatics (can jump very high), Sound Manipulation (can let out high pitched screams capable of stunning its opponents), Paralysis Inducement (has a paralysing beam), Self Destruction (Has a self-destruct function).
AP: At Least 8-B physically (can harm Big Boss with its leg-swipes), At Least Low 7-B with Intercontinental Missiles (Peace Walker's missiles have one-Megaton warheads, Missiles usually have more than 1 warhead on them, up to 14, hence the "at least" rating), At Least 7-B with Self-Destruction, likely far higher (Peace Walker has a Self-Destruct function with a massive Hydrogen Bomb that's more powerful than the Tsar Bomba, Real Life Hydrogen Bombs could pack anywhere from 100 Megatons all the way up to several Gigatons, hence the "likely far higher", especially since PW's Hydrogen Bomb is noted to be "massive").
Speed: Peak Human Travel Speed (Can reach 25 mph in running speed) With High Hypersonic+ Combat speed and Massively Hypersonic Reactions (Scaling from Big Boss).
Lifting Strength: Class 1 (Can support its own weight, which is 500 short tons).
Striking Strength: At Least City Block class (Can harm Big Boss)
Durability: At Least 8-B (Completely impervious to anything but Big Boss' best weaponry), Possibly 7-B for its Inner Barrier (Huey was extremely unsure whether a nuke could breach the inner barrier or not, stating that it was designed to be "as strong as a bomb shelter" and to "withstand a nuclear war", since MG is a more scientifically advanced setting, it would be fair to assume that nukes in MG woud be equivalent to our high-tier nukes).
Stamina: Unknown, possibly Infinite (It's completely mechanical and doesn't seem to need any fuel to operate).
Range: Tens of meters with melee attacks, hundreds of meters with rockets and weaponry, at least tens of kilometers with Hydrogen Bomb, hundreds of kilometers with Intercontinental missiles.
Standard Equipment: Missiles, S-mines, Flamethrower, EM pulse-field, Paralysis beam, Intercontinental Missiles, Hydrogen Bomb
Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius (PW is an Expert AI based on The Boss).
Weaknesses: Can only launch a nuclear missile or attack as self defense, shutting down the Mammal Pod will greatly hinder its thought pattern and combat capabilities
The Sorrow:
Abilities: Intangibility (Immaterial; he is a ghost), Invisibility (only visible by those he wishes to be seen by), Self Sustenance (1,2 and 3 due to being a ghost), Immortality (Type 1, 2, 7 and 6 scaling from Psycho Mantis), Death and Life Manipulation (Kills upon making contact with his corpse, brough Naked Snake back to life),BFR (Can take people into the "other side", the world of the dead), Summoning (He summons the ghosts of those killed by the target, but he can also summon his own ghosts), Power Absorption (Can channel the spirits of the dead and utilize their skills), Minor Reality Warping (Can crack and repair his glasses, as well as crying blood from his left eye and materializing flying clocks), True Flight (he flies around), Teleportation (He regularly appears from thin air), Weather Manipulation (It rains whenever he appears), Energy Projection (displayed here), Possession (Scaling from Psycho Mantis), 4th Wall Breaking (Displayed continuously throughout MGS3, such as him remarking "back again?" after the player dies and loads the game), Soul Manipulation (Vanquished Psycho Mantis' soul), Precognition (foretold Big Boss' fate of being killed by his son, scaling to Psucho Mantis).
AP: Likely 8-B (can harm Big Boss with his Energy Projection), bypasses durability with many of his abilities.
Speed: Likely Supersonic+, with High Hypersonic+ combat speed and Massively Hypersonic reactions (likely scales to Big Boss).
Lifting Strength: Unknown.
Striking Strength: Unknown.
Durability: Unknown (Intangibility makes him hard to hit).
Stamina: Likely Infinite (His stamina bar is completely empty, just like his health bar).
Range: Extended melee range with Energy Projection.
Standard Equipment: His own corpse.
Intelligence: Genius (As a member of the Cobra Unit in life, he was an incredibly skilled soldier, capable of predicting the course of any battle by talking to the dead beforehand), in death, he seems to have acquired a sort of Omniscience, showing knowledge on things he would have no true way of knowing, such as perfectly knowing (down to the tens of seconds) the time it would take the C3 to detonate, or knowing the combination to Snake's cell-door before Snake had even been assigned to said cell.
Weaknesses: Consumed by sorrow, doesn't usually interfere with the material world.
Why should these profiles be added? Well, peace Walker has a whole game named after it, The Sorrow is just a very powerful and unique character that would bring a lot of value to the verse.
Now on to the last part (finally, jesus christ this took me a week to write down), unfortunately, the last one migh just be the longest.
PART 6
Skill Feats
- Naked Snake fodderized the Ocelot Unit along with Ocelot himself, the Ocelot unit being an elite group composed of the very best among the Spetznaz rank, with EVA stating that their skills with weapons is the stuff of legends and Ocelot of course being superior to them. This same Naked Snake would then go on to get absolutely stomped by The Boss
- Liquid Snake joined the SAS as an 18 year-old, the youngest in history, and excelled in everything
- Even as a 12 year-old, Liquid managed to organize a group of child soldiers into a fierce army capable of taking over settlements. Eli could even outmaneuver and overpower fully grown Diamond Dogs soldiers without any formal training, requiring the intervention of Ocelot in order to stop him.
- According to the official MGS' website's "Versus Battle" (which are now basically impossible to find, but are all listed in the MGS wiki) The Cobra Unit could have singlehandedly won WW2, their missions being so top secret that not even their corpse could be left
- The Boss is usually referred to as "The Mother of Special Forces", this is due to the fact that she either directly or indirectly laid the foundation for every form of special unit in the world, with Zero outright stating that she was the one who put together Rayforce and L Detachment, which laid the groundwork for today's SAS
- Volgin was a boxing champion as a young adult, despite this, he gets completely skill-stomped by Naked and he's terrified of The Boss' combat prowess
- The End invented sniping as a whole and all of its techniques, passing his knowledge onto The Boss. Naked Snake managed to outsnipe him while having a physiological (due to The End's parasite, he was naturally gifted as a sniper) and locational (The End could speak to the forest itself, Snake had never sniped in a forest before) disadvantage
- Venom Snake is merely the best MSF soldier, nothing implies that he's as skilled as Big Boss, as he was only hypnotized into thinking he had done what Big Boss had done. We know from Naomi that genes are the most important factor to a soldier's skill and Venom was only a normal human, as such automatically less skilled than those with Big Boss' genes. This is demonstrated by Eli being capable of outskilling and overpowering fully grown soldiers despite having no training and a rookie Solid Snake being able to beat Venom himself
- Venom Snake outsniped Quiet despite her having a physiological advantage over him and an advantage position
- Raiden had a record-breaking killcount at age 10, he became the leader of a personal unit at that same age. His effectiveness and ruthlessness got him the nickname "Ripper"
- Sundowner invented his own fighting style and is experienced in Chinese swordfighting
- CQC is composed of many martial arts, like Judo, Jujutsu, Aikido, Taekwondo, Muay Thai, Karate, Boxing, Kali, this video goes into detail into every martial art that CQC is shown to contain; on top of them, CQC would also include all of the martial arts used in the army and special forces, as most of them were created by The Boss, the co-creator of CQC.
Scaling Chain
Venom Snake<Rookie Solid<=Genome Soldiers<Solidus<Raiden<Liquid=FOXHOUND<=MGS1,2,Solid<MGS4 Solid<<MGS4 Ocelot=End of MGS3 Ocelot<=End of MGS4 Solid <The Boss<Big Boss
There are some points that are worth explaining here. First off, why did i put Venom at the bottom? Well, the first thing we gotta set is that Venom is not equal to Big Boss in terms of skills, nowhere is this stated in MGS5, Venom was merely the best MSF soldier and he was only hypnotized into thinking he had the same experiences as Big Boss, I don't think I need to tell you how being hypnotized into thinking you experienced something is not comparable to actually experiencing it. There's also the matter of the "soldier genes", which automatically make the "user" exponentially more skilled than anyone else, as displayed with Eli and a Rookie Solid Snake, who actually beat Venom Snake.
Why don't i automatically put Snake above Big Boss? After all, Snake beat him in MG2, right? Yeah, kinda, but let's keep in mind that in MG2 Snake fought a very old and washed Big Boss. The idea of MG2 Solid Snake being better than Big Boss is also pretty much completely debunked by what happens in MGS4.
Why the Genome Soldiers above rookie Snake? To be honest, they aren't really listed as "above" him, merely "possibly slightly better", mainly due to the Genome Soldiers having more training than Snake along with the Soldier Gene.
MGS4 Solid is listed as above MGS1,2 Solid because of the fact that in MGS1 and 2 he was willingly "nerfing" himself by not using CQC, which is a HUGE part of his combat arsenal, so despite being physically weaker, MGS4 Snake is significantly more skilled than his MGS1 and 2 self.
Ocelot skill-stomped Snake into the ground, and no, it wasn't due to Snake being weaker or anything of the sorts, because Ocelot had the same physical age as Snake, Snake had the muscle suit to boost his attributes and Ocelot straight up states "But when it comes to CQC, I've got the upper hand", so no, AP had nothing to do with it.
Why do I list MGS4 Ocelot as equal to EOMGS3 Ocelot? Well, it's because neither would really be "peak" Ocelot: In MGS4 Ocelot hadn't fought h2h in at least 20 years, so saying he was rusty is an understatement, whereas in MGS3 Ocelot had just learnt CQC, which means that he wouldn't logically be as good as his, let's say, MGS5 self. So yeah, I think it's reasonable to say that MGS4 Ocelot would be AT BEST equal to MGS3 Ocelot if not weaker; yeah, it's a speculation on my part, but an oculated one, I think.
Why do I put EOMGS4 Snake below The Boss and Big Boss? Due to Big Boss' substantially better performance against Ocelot. As I've said, I consider MGS3 and MGS4 Ocelot to be equal skill-wise, which, conveniently, is quite handy when it comes to comparing Snake and Big Boss. Snake Barely beat Ocelot, with their fight ending in a slug-fest and mainly due to Ocelot being effected by FOXDIE; while yes, this shows that Snake has become superior to Ocelot, it demonstrates that the gap isn't that big, they are more comparable than anything else. Big Boss on the other hand cleanly beat Ocelot, and he wasn't even fighting seriously, while yes, Ocelot does kinda hold his own, it's mostly due to Big Boss beng surprised by his usage of CQC, and even then, it's quite clear that Snake had the upper hand.
The Boss is above MGS4 Snake due to scaling to a serious Big Boss, making her scale significantly above MGS3 Ocelot and so on and so forth.
There are a few things I'd like to point out about some of the characters I left out: The Cobras would be above FOXHOUD IMO due to better statements and feats overall, whereas the WODs are a bit more tricky, since they are blade focussed and not h2h like every other quantifiable MG character, but I'll try nontheless. The starting point in regards to swordsmanship in MG is Solidus. We don't know much about his skills, what we know is that he was in the CIA, that he's the perfect clone of Big Boss and that he's very fond of blades; this is enough to place him around the level of the best swordsmen in the world, due to the Soldier Gene. MGS2 Raiden beat him quite cleanly. Now, MGS4 Raiden scales way, WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY above MGS2 Raiden in terms of swordsmanship, which is not only pretty evident from his fight scenes, but also by the fact that he had traveled all around the world to hone his skills. Patriots Body Raiden would be at least equal to that, if not superior. Sam absolutely fodderized him, and the WODs would be less skilled than Sam, but still comparable to him, which means that the WODs in general scale massively above Patriots Body Raiden. MGR Raiden then scales to Sam, and this closes the skill chain.
Solidus<MGS2 Raiden<MGS4 Raiden<=Patriots Raiden<<WODs<Sam<=MGR Raiden
Now, this scaling chain is not a gospel, there could be something wrong, and make your proposals if you want to.
Finally done.
I don't even know if anyone will be willing to read through ALL of this, but still, hope someone does.
In case you have any doubts or you don't agree with something, we can debate this.