MHA Possible Downgarde

[Dual_Binoculars]

Alright, the main point of this thread is to bring up the flawed assumptions with this calc.

Firstly scaling the Nomu to 1/10 of the missile yield doesn't make sense. This is due to the fact that we don't know how close the Nomu was to the epicenter of the explosion when it initially went off. If we look at the panels before it went off we can see the Nomu in the air and even high enough that it looks reasonably large compared to the planes in the foreground. These same planes are out of the explosion radius when the nukes go off on the very next page and you can even see them in the middle right of the this panel.

Secondly the Nomu if it was directly hit would have been forced down by the explosion, but instead is seen up in the air and even high enough to be within dozens of meters of the planes. This supports the fact that the Nomu was high in the air before the explosion as seen in the previous panels and was pushed back even farther by the explosion. And finally we have no confirmation that Star and Strip actually hit the Nomu Directly. While she was aiming for it we don't see much other than her giant slamming the missiles into the water and them going off.

With all this in mind I think we should find and use the surface area of the Nomu. Then find out how much of the explosion it took rather than assume it was hit point black and scale it to 1/10 of the total yield.

 

[King]

Yeah, I comfortable agree with this one. I even thought of making a CRT about this before. In fact, I think we should use the surface area method prescribed on the explosion page.

 

[Baken384]

following

 

[King]

I read the manga, and it's clearly visible in one of the panels that the Nomu is only a bit farther from Stars and Stripes herself, so no way it tanked 1/10th of the explosion. It should be far lower. Wait, I'll just make a blog to calculate it.

 

[Earthyboy]

I'll post my thoughts in a few minutes.

 

[King]

Yeah, I comfortable agree with this one. I even thought of making a CRT about this before. In fact, I think we should use the surface area method prescribed on the explosion page.

We can also scale Shigaraki via this method.

 

[Earthyboy]

Alright, let's get this over with. I'm pulling an all-nighter just for this.

Firstly scaling the Nomu to 1/10 of the missile yield doesn't make sense. This is due to the fact that we don't know how close the Nomu was to the epicenter of the explosion when it initially went off. If we look at the panels before it went off we can see the Nomu in the air and even high enough that it looks reasonably large compared to the planes in the foreground.

I disagree strongly with this part of your argument and think it's wrong. Why? Because Shigaraki used the Nomu as a decoy, to make Star and the others think that they were actually targetting Shigaraki himself, they even hit the Nomu with several lasers before detonating the nuke, confirming that they indeed locked onto it as a target before detonating the Tiamat missiles.

Unless the Nomu conveniently moved out of the way before the missiles hit, (and there's no evidence of this), we can assume that it was in the epicenter of the explosion, or at least close to it. And furthermore, consider this; it wouldn't make sense for Star to even miss the Nomu as a target given how easily the pilots were able to aim their lasers at it. Given how Star's giant Kaiju avatar was able to easily beat the living snot out of Shigaraki, it's incredibly likely that her chances of missing or being extremely inaccurate with her shot are extremely low.

The only possible and reasonable explanation would be that the Nomu was at or extremely close to the epicenter of the blast. That's all I'll say for this portion of your argument.

Secondly the Nomu if it was directly hit would have been forced down by the explosion, but instead is seen up in the air and even high enough to be within dozens of meters of the planes. This supports the fact that the Nomu was high in the air before the explosion as seen in the previous panels and was pushed back even farther by the explosion.

Literally, all of this is contradicted by the information we know in the scans I showed above. It wouldn't make any sense for Star's shot to be anything but accurate. So, did the Nomu magically travel dozens of meters into the air after being hit, or is this just an outlier? Surely, Star would've noticed (especially given her reaction time) if the Nomu wasn't in the epicenter of the blast.

And finally we have no confirmation that Star and Strip actually hit the Nomu Directly. While she was aiming for it we don't see much other than her giant slamming the missiles into the water and them going off.

Irrelevant, given the reasons provided above.

I read the manga, and it's clearly visible in one of the panels that the Nomu is only a bit farther from Stars and Stripes herself, so no way it tanked 1/10th of the explosion. It should be far lower. Wait, I'll just make a blog to calculate it.

And what evidence do you have of this? Especially given the argument that I posted above, nearly all of this wouldn't make sense even with some form of evidence.

 

[King]

Alright, let's get this over with. I'm pulling an all-nighter just for this.

I disagree strongly with this part of your argument and think it's wrong. Why? Because Shigaraki used the Nomu as a decoy, to make Star and the others think that they were actually targetting Shigaraki himself, they even hit the Nomu with several lasers before detonating the nuke, confirming that they indeed locked onto it as a target before detonating the Tiamat missiles.

Unless the Nomu conveniently moved out of the way before the missiles hit, (and there's no evidence of this), we can assume that it was in the epicenter of the explosion, or at least close to it. And furthermore, consider this; it wouldn't make sense for Star to even miss the Nomu as a target given how easily the pilots were able to aim their lasers at it. Given how Star's giant Kaiju avatar was able to easily beat the living snot out of Shigaraki, it's incredibly likely that her chances of missing or being extremely inaccurate with her shot are extremely low.

The only possible and reasonable explanation would be that the Nomu was at or extremely close to the epicenter of the blast. That's all I'll say for this portion of your argument.


Literally, all of this is contradicted by the information we know in the scans I showed above. It wouldn't make any sense for Star's shot to be anything but accurate. So, did the Nomu magically travel dozens of meters into the air after being hit, or is this just an outlier? Surely, Star would've noticed (especially given her reaction time) if the Nomu wasn't in the epicenter of the blast.


Irrelevant, given the reasons provided above.


And what evidence do you have of this? Especially given the argument that I posted above, nearly all of this wouldn't make sense even with some form of evidence

. The Nomu was only hit by the lasers initially so that Shigaraki could escape downwards. It wasn't meant to take the impact of the nuke in place of Shigaraki.
Stars and Stripes is clearly looking down after the detonation of the nuke and the Nomu is literally flying beside her in one panel. Why would you assume it when all other panels show a clear contradiction. He even says "Explode" to the Nomu and it detonates in the air, damaging the nearby fighter jets, so it's literally not possible for it to be at the epicenter of the blast.

Shigaraki's explanation itself shows that majority of the impact happened downwards and that the Nomu wasn't even involved for the most part.

Here, counter check this argument.

 

[King]

. The Nomu was only hit by the lasers initially so that Shigaraki could escape downwards. It wasn't meant to take the impact of the nuke in place of Shigaraki.
Stars and Stripes is clearly looking down after the detonation of the nuke and the Nomu is literally flying beside her in one panel. Why would you assume it when all other panels show a clear contradiction. He even says "Explode" to the Nomu and it detonates in the air, damaging the nearby fighter jets, so it's literally not possible for it to be at the epicenter of the blast.

Shigaraki's explanation itself shows that majority of the impact happened downwards and that the Nomu wasn't even involved for the most part.

Here, counter check this argument.

Sadly for you, it's noon here.

 

[Duedate8898]

While I've yet to decide my feelings on all the points brought up here, I will say that I find it odd that we settled on scaling everyone to one of these nukes instead of calculating how much the nomu tanked in actuality using our normal standards for calculating durability from explosions then downscaling from there if it provided usable results.

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

I disagree strongly with this part of your argument and think it's wrong. Why? Because Shigaraki used the Nomu as a decoy, to make Star and the others think that they were actually targetting Shigaraki himself, they even hit the Nomu with several lasers before detonating the nuke, confirming that they indeed locked onto it as a target before detonating the Tiamat missiles.

Unless the Nomu conveniently moved out of the way before the missiles hit, (and there's no evidence of this), we can assume that it was in the epicenter of the explosion, or at least close to it. And furthermore, consider this; it wouldn't make sense for Star to even miss the Nomu as a target given how easily the pilots were able to aim their lasers at it. Given how Star's giant Kaiju avatar was able to easily beat the living snot out of Shigaraki, it's incredibly likely that her chances of missing or being extremely inaccurate with her shot are extremely low.

The only possible and reasonable explanation would be that the Nomu was at or extremely close to the epicenter of the blast. That's all I'll say for this portion of your argument.


Literally, all of this is contradicted by the information we know in the scans I showed above. It wouldn't make any sense for Star's shot to be anything but accurate. So, did the Nomu magically travel dozens of meters into the air after being hit, or is this just an outlier? Surely, Star would've noticed (especially given her reaction time) if the Nomu wasn't in the epicenter of the blast.


Irrelevant, given the reasons provided above.


And what evidence do you have of this? Especially given the argument that I posted above, nearly all of this wouldn't make sense even with some form of evidence.

The whole crutch of your argument is the Nomu magically moved when the panels show it was in the air prior and that Star hit it dead center when we have next to no confirmation that she did. Even if she wanted to hit dead center we can see the nukes go off close or against the water when in fact the Nomu is seen far above the water in the panels leading up to the explosion meaning she likely missed dead or even close to center. Plus the fact that she was aiming for a moving target in the air from over a kilometer away with a giant that's separate from her body makes it not hard to believe that she was off the mark. Also the fact her and the pilots couldn't tell that the Nomu was switched out for Shigaraki makes this even worse. They were so focused on getting the nukes off they over looked who they were shooting at and then failed to notice the Nomu up in the air only dozens of meters from them after they hit it.

 

[King]

This is the calculation blog that I made right now regarding the Surface Area method. It also has scans to prove that the Nomu was not at the epicenter of the explosion.

 

[King]

The whole crutch of your argument is the Nomu magically moved when the panels show it was in the air prior and that Star hit it dead center when we have next to no confirmation that she did. Even if she wanted to hit dead center we can see the nukes go off close or against the water when in fact the Nomu is seen far above the water in the panels leading up to the explosion meaning she likely missed dead or even close to center. Plus the fact that she was aiming for a moving target in the air from over a kilometer away with a giant that's separate from her body makes it not hard to believe that she was off the mark. Also the fact her and the pilots couldn't tell that the Nomu was switched out for Shigaraki makes this even worse. They were so focused on getting the nukes off they over looked who they were shooting at and then failed to notice the Nomu up in the air only dozens of meters from them after they hit it.

Yeah, the explosion was literally on the ground and the Nomu is up in the air. It is literally impossible for it to be hit directly by the nuke. It is at least at the same height as the cloud giant itself.

 

[Baken384]

This is the calculation blog that I made right now regarding the Surface Area method. It also has scans to prove that the Nomu was not at the epicenter of the explosion.

lord does this mean 7-A MHA could be swiped again? I hope not..

 

[King]

lord does this mean 7-A MHA could be swiped again? I hope not..

I literally wrote the first line that it doesn't scale to Shigaraki.

 

[King]

I literally wrote the first line that it doesn't scale to Shigaraki.

We will have to use a separate surface area for Shigaraki as he was much closer to the point of impact.

 

[King]

We will have to use a separate surface area for Shigaraki as he was much closer to the point of impact.

I might calculate it later today if I get some time.

 

[King]

This is the calculation blog that I made right now regarding the Surface Area method. It also has scans to prove that the Nomu was not at the epicenter of the explosion.

I'll ask a calc member to evaluate this.

 

[Earthyboy]

Here, counter check this argument.

Oh, I will. To the best of my ability.

The Nomu was only hit by the lasers initially so that Shigaraki could escape downwards. It wasn't meant to take the impact of the nuke in place of Shigaraki.

But we literally see the pilots aiming their lasers at them. Do you really think Star would miss her shot, especially when you consider that her reaction time and accuracy are far greater than any of them? Ignoring how it's unlikely that the Nomu would be able to move a whole lot after getting hit by several of the lasers, you'd have to be doing EXTREME mental gymnastics to assume that Star missed her shot.

And you lack evidence of what you claim. What position do you think that places you in? Provide some evidence or scans for your claims and maybe I'll take you seriously. It's called "The Sagan Standard" if my memory serves me correctly. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Case closed on this one.

Stars and Stripes is clearly looking down after the detonation of the nuke and the Nomu is literally flying beside her in one panel. Why would you assume it when all other panels show a clear contradiction. He even says "Explode" to the Nomu and it detonates in the air, damaging the nearby fighter jets, so it's literally not possible for it to be at the epicenter of the blast.

Everything here is completely false.

1. The perspective here is wonky, but if anything, it looks as if the Nomu is closer to the ground, or where Shigaraki dug the whole than Star herself. And even then, discounting how the perspective of the scan I linked, since everything is wonky (that would discredit both of our arguments) we never see it directly next to Star. Hell, we never even see them in the same panel after the nuke is detonated I believe.
2. We're actually shown in one panel that the pilots move into a formation and encircle the Nomu. So from there, we can assume that they flew directly over to the Nomu itself to were ground zero of the crater was. Or at least close to it.
3. Even if the Nomu was close to the fighter jets, why did the Nomu take damage, but not the fighter jets? After all, they were far away from the nuke to the point that it seemingly didn't damage any of them. Unless the fighter jets are far more durable than anything the Nomu can tank, to the point that they're several times more durable, this makes little to no sense.
4. Your argument still has zero evidence. Outside of a blog that you posted in another message after your initial post, (which contains one picture that I explained why it doesn't back up your argument), you still have yet to prove any of your claims with any irrefutable evidence. I am not content with doing a dance for several hours with someone who doesn't know what the **** providing evidence in a debate means. Either provide proof or concede. Pick one.

Shigaraki's explanation itself shows that majority of the impact happened downwards and that the Nomu wasn't even involved for the most part.

Really? My argument suggests otherwise. And again, you still have zero evidence/proof.

Yeah, the explosion was literally on the ground and the Nomu is up in the air. It is literally impossible for it to be hit directly by the nuke. It is at least at the same height as the cloud giant itself.

Once again, this is either something that I've refuted already, and to a thorough extent at that, or something which has zero evidence. This is completely irrelevant.

The whole crutch of your argument is the Nomu magically moved when the panels show it was in the air prior and that Star hit it dead center when we have next to no confirmation that she did.

I've also refuted this above. No need to respond to this at all.

Even if she wanted to hit dead center we can see the nukes go off close or against the water when in fact the Nomu is seen far above the water in the panels leading up to the explosion meaning she likely missed dead or even close to center.

How close are we talking here? You don't have any estimates. This is thing is several kilometers in radius, and the only thing we have to discern the distance the Nomu is away from the epicenter is a scan that has a wonky perspective. And as I've said before, the Nomu is not that far above the water if the pilot's dialogue is anything to go by.

Plus the fact that she was aiming for a moving target in the air from over a kilometer away with a giant that's separate from her body makes it not hard to believe that she was off the mark.

Star literally punched Shigaraki fast enough to the point that he had little time to react. I doubt that a Nomu of all things would be hard for her to hit. Especially with her kaiju form, which is flat-out shown to be quite a bit faster than Shigaraki to some degree.

Also the fact her and the pilots couldn't tell that the Nomu was switched out for Shigaraki makes this even worse. They were so focused on getting the nukes off they over looked who they were shooting at and then failed to notice the Nomu up in the air only dozens of meters from them after they hit it.

And yet the pilots, despite supposedly being "unable to discern between the Nomu and Shigaraki" were still able to hit the Nomu dead-on, DIRECTLY in the face with their lasers. Do you honestly think that the pilots and their reaction times are so much greater than that of Star's to the point that their attacks are far more accurate than anything Star can dish out? What, do they have reactions comparable to that of Weakened All Might now? I literally can't take you seriously at this point. Especially if you're not bothering with showing me any evidence to back up your claims.

Sadly for you, it's noon here.

That's my line, actually.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Interesting

 

[Spinoirr]

That nomu was hit dead on as they thought it was shigraki getting out of the hole so they lasered the nomu and then start threw all the missiles at the what they were lazering (the nomu) and it was still alive enough to fallow afos order to blow up

Also the jets were farther away from the blast and not in the dead center like the nomu and have forcefields so they aren't normal jets

 

[Earthyboy]

That nomu was hit dead on as they thought it was shigraki getting out of the hole so they lasered the nomu and then start threw all the missiles at the what they were lazering (the nomu) and it was still alive enough to fallow afos order to blow up

Also the jets were farther away from the blast and not in the dead center like the nomu and have forcefields so they aren't normal jets

They could've easily crossed a dozen kilometers between them and the Nomu. They're fighter jets. They move faster than sound, and in some cases, achieve speeds within the excess of Mach 5.

 

[Damage3245]

Secondly the Nomu if it was directly hit would have been forced down by the explosion, but instead is seen up in the air and even high enough to be within dozens of meters of the planes. This supports the fact that the Nomu was high in the air before the explosion as seen in the previous panels and was pushed back even farther by the explosion. And finally we have no confirmation that Star and Strip actually hit the Nomu Directly. While she was aiming for it we don't see much other than her giant slamming the missiles into the water and them going off.

I do have to admit that these thoughts crossed my mind as well.

 

[Earthyboy]

I do have to admit that these thoughts crossed my mind as well.

I've already thoroughly debunked this point. No use in trying to justify it.

 

[Damage3245]

I've already thoroughly debunked this point. No use in trying to justify it.

Oh, I'm not agreeing with the downgrade right away. Personally I think the better option is to wait for the anime depiction to see if it can provide some clarification.

 

[Earthyboy]

Oh, I'm not agreeing with the downgrade right away. Personally I think the better option is to wait for the anime depiction to see if it can provide some clarification.

It's gonna take two seasons to probably get to that point, but you do you I guess.

 

[King]

Oh, I will. To the best of my ability.


But we literally see the pilots aiming their lasers at them. Do you really think Star would miss her shot, especially when you consider that her reaction time and accuracy are far greater than any of them? Ignoring how it's unlikely that the Nomu would be able to move a whole lot after getting hit by several of the lasers, you'd have to be doing EXTREME mental gymnastics to assume that Star missed her shot.

And you lack evidence of what you claim. What position do you think that places you in? Provide some evidence or scans for your claims and maybe I'll take you seriously. It's called "The Sagan Standard" if my memory serves me correctly. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Case closed on this one.


Everything here is completely false.

1. The perspective here is wonky, but if anything, it looks as if the Nomu is closer to the ground, or where Shigaraki dug the whole than Star herself. And even then, discounting how the perspective of the scan I linked, since everything is wonky (that would discredit both of our arguments) we never see it directly next to Star. Hell, we never even see them in the same panel after the nuke is detonated I believe.
2. We're actually shown in one panel that the pilots move into a formation and encircle the Nomu. So from there, we can assume that they flew directly over to the Nomu itself to were ground zero of the crater was. Or at least close to it.
3. Even if the Nomu was close to the fighter jets, why did the Nomu take damage, but not the fighter jets? After all, they were far away from the nuke to the point that it seemingly didn't damage any of them. Unless the fighter jets are far more durable than anything the Nomu can tank, to the point that they're several times more durable, this makes little to no sense.
4. Your argument still has zero evidence. Outside of a blog that you posted in another message after your initial post, (which contains one picture that I explained why it doesn't back up your argument), you still have yet to prove any of your claims with any irrefutable evidence. I am not content with doing a dance for several hours with someone who doesn't know what the **** providing evidence in a debate means. Either provide proof or concede. Pick one.

Really? My argument suggests otherwise. And again, you still have zero evidence/proof.


Once again, this is either something that I've refuted already, and to a thorough extent at that, or something which has zero evidence. This is completely irrelevant.


I've also refuted this above. No need to respond to this at all.


How close are we talking here? You don't have any estimates. This is thing is several kilometers in radius, and the only thing we have to discern the distance the Nomu is away from the epicenter is a scan that has a wonky perspective. And as I've said before, the Nomu is not that far above the water if the pilot's dialogue is anything to go by.


Star literally punched Shigaraki fast enough to the point that he had little time to react. I doubt that a Nomu of all things would be hard for her to hit. Especially with her kaiju form, which is flat-out shown to be quite a bit faster than Shigaraki to some degree.


And yet the pilots, despite supposedly being "unable to discern between the Nomu and Shigaraki" were still able to hit the Nomu dead-on, DIRECTLY in the face with their lasers. Do you honestly think that the pilots and their reaction times are so much greater than that of Star's to the point that their attacks are far more accurate than anything Star can dish out? What, do they have reactions comparable to that of Weakened All Might now? I literally can't take you seriously at this point. Especially if you're not bothering with showing me any evidence to back up your claims.


That's my line, actually.

A debunk for a debunk I guess. And why exactly can't she miss the shot? Because you said so? The Nomu was in the air the whole time and you have no scans to prove that it was remotely close to Shigaraki.

1. Perspective is wonky? We literally see multiple shots of the aftermath crater and in none of them the Nomu is even remotely close to the ground. In fact Shigaraki has to jump upwards in order to reach their height. I would take an estimate and say that the Nomu was somewhere between SS and Shigaraki and that's still multiple kilometers.
2. Encircle the Nomu? That's Stars and Stripes in the panel? What are you talking about? They were moving towards stars and stripes to provide her place to stand. Did you even read it properly or are just providing scans without thinking?

3. When did I say that the Nomu was close to the jets. It was only some what similar in elevation. They were similar in height but the horizontal distance of the jets was much greater and that's why they didn't take any damage but the Nomu did. If you don't know, an explosion causes less damage the farther it is from an object.

4. Zero evidence? At least I don't provide WRONG evidence. Gonna curse now because you wanna look cool and can't come up with a better argument?

I will assume you don't have eyes from now. The impact crater was literally on the ground, what are you talking about?

Here, take your L.

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

How close are we talking here? You don't have any estimates. This is thing is several kilometers in radius, and the only thing we have to discern the distance the Nomu is away from the epicenter is a scan that has a wonky perspective. And as I've said before, the Nomu is not that far above the water if the pilot's dialogue is anything to go by.

Based off the scan you posted the Nomu is at least a dozen or two dozen meters to the left of Shigaraki who jumped out of a hole from the center of the crater and that's not counting the distance the Nomu is above the crater itself in the air.

Star literally punched Shigaraki fast enough to the point that he had little time to react. I doubt that a Nomu of all things would be hard for her to hit. Especially with her kaiju form, which is flat-out shown to be quite a bit faster than Shigaraki to some degree.

And yet the pilots, despite supposedly being "unable to discern between the Nomu and Shigaraki" were still able to hit the Nomu dead-on, DIRECTLY in the face with their lasers. Do you honestly think that the pilots and their reaction times are so much greater than that of Star's to the point that their attacks are far more accurate than anything Star can dish out? What, do they have reactions comparable to that of Weakened All Might now? I literally can't take you seriously at this point. Especially if you're not bothering with showing me any evidence to back up your claims.

Yeah that's how the whole thing played out they literally couldn't tell the Nomu and Shigaraki apart at just shot at it assuming it was Shigaraki. Star was under pressure to finish the fight with the missiles in bound. She had to catch the incoming missiles then use them to punch a moving target in the air while she was kilometers in the air with the giant's height around 2200 meters. Star herself must have been at least 3-4 kilometers away from the Nomu since she wasn't caught in the blast. In all the instances prior that Star hit Shigaraki with the giant he was much closer to Star. Is it really hard to believe she didn't hit it dead center? Even if the Nomu was hit dead center I still don't agree with using 1/10 that seems incredibly arbitrary compared to the sites standards. It should either be the Nomu was hit dead on so it fully scales or the Nomu was close to the blast and only took a fraction ie use surface area not something in the middle like 1/10.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Please someone tell me how in the living hell does Star EVER miss an immobile, locked down target that’s nearly the same size of the jets she’s been fighting with, when she has been consistently, perfectly hitting every single other attack in the entire fight?

Literally HOW would she miss the Nomu AT ALL. She has lasers literally pointing at the target and keeping it still for her to hit it, and even just her Stands fingers are bigger than it is.

If the main argument here for her NOT hitting it dead on is “well it’s not on the ground, it’s still in the air, so she missed,” then I’m calling absolute cap.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also, just from re-reading the chapter, that Nomu is NOT high into the sky like some people are claiming.

Just from the initial shot of Shigaraki jumping out of the crater, you can see that the Nomu isn’t very high off the ground. Beyond that, when it explodes, we just get a wide shot of the explosion. The Nomu seems closer to the pilots later on because they are flying towards Shigaraki. They are getting closer to the ground, so therefore, the Nomu is closer to them.

The explosion and after effects of it took a while to settle. We can tell because the water has already nearly closed the crater and push back that Star’s missiles did. So time passed after the Nomu was hit by the missiles. The jets were flying closer that whole time, which is why Shigaraki could even jump onto them to reach Star. So the Nomu’s position after the explosion is either inconsistent or it falling is slower than the jets flying after it.

 

[King]

Please someone tell me how in the living hell does Star EVER miss an immobile, locked down target that’s nearly the same size of the jets she’s been fighting with, when she has been consistently, perfectly hitting every single other attack in the entire fight?

Literally HOW would she miss the Nomu AT ALL. She has lasers literally pointing at the target and keeping it still for her to hit it, and even just her Stands fingers are bigger than it is.

If the main argument here for her NOT hitting it dead on is “well it’s not on the ground, it’s still in the air, so she missed,” then I’m calling absolute cap.

And your whole argument is that Stars and Stripes can't miss while she is handling ten missiles in one hand, piloting a huge cloud monster and floating 2 kilometers in the sky. She is not infallible like Snipe or Lady Nagant . Your whole argument is "But she can't miss!".
That is nothing different from personal bias.

 

[King]

Also, just from re-reading the chapter, that Nomu is NOT high into the sky like some people are claiming.

Just from the initial shot of Shigaraki jumping out of the crater, you can see that the Nomu isn’t very high off the ground. Beyond that, when it explodes, we just get a wide shot of the explosion. The Nomu seems closer to the pilots later on because they are flying towards Shigaraki. They are getting closer to the ground, so therefore, the Nomu is closer to them.

The explosion and after effects of it took a while to settle. We can tell because the water has already nearly closed the crater and push back that Star’s missiles did. So time passed after the Nomu was hit by the missiles. The jets were flying closer that whole time, which is why Shigaraki could even jump onto them to reach Star. So the Nomu’s position after the explosion is either inconsistent or it falling is slower than the jets flying after it.

It will definitely fall slower because it's not accelerating itself. Plus, Shigaraki can cover hundreds of meters in a second. It is quite likely that he jumped up to a great height.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

And your whole argument is that Stars and Stripes can't miss while she is handling ten missiles in one hand, piloting a huge cloud monster and floating 2 kilometers in the sky. She is not infallible like Snipe or Lady Nagant . Your whole argument is "But she can't miss!".
That is nothing different from personal bias.

She has never struggled with aiming her Fist Bump to the Earth, so citing that is just attempting to make the feat sound more ridiculous than it is. The ONLY thing that could’ve possibly thrown her aim off were the missiles somehow making her aim off due to the force behind them, but that has no basis whatsoever because she never remarks on them messing up her aim, and even performs a perfect spin with them before landing her punch, in which she is looking directly at the Nomu and just has to aim her hand, which is bigger than the Nomu, in that direction.

It is FAR more personal bias to imply she misses there than it is to believe she didn’t. Just based on what is happening on panel, there is no reasoning at all that she could have missed or that she did miss. No evidence is given for how or why she could have missed, just speculative statements as if her missing was obvious and no one commented on it because of unknown reasons.

It will definitely fall slower because it's not accelerating itself. Plus, Shigaraki can cover hundreds of meters in a second. It is quite likely that he jumped up to a great height.

So the jets just caught up to it while it was falling from whatever height it was at, which no one knows because time moved forward after the explosion. And how high and fast he can jump is irrelevant when the initial shot of him jumping, right before the shot of his back, has him only JUST getting out of the crater, meaning the Nomu and jets also can’t be that far up from it.

 

[Earthyboy]

A debunk for a debunk I guess. And why exactly can't she miss the shot? Because you said so? The Nomu was in the air the whole time and you have no scans to prove that it was remotely close to Shigaraki.

I literally just explained why she couldn't miss her shot. It'd be illogical for her to do so. It's not because I said it myself, it's because I used evidence, scans, and common sense. This isn't WOG.

1. Perspective is wonky? We literally see multiple shots of the aftermath crater and in none of them the Nomu is even remotely close to the ground.

Would you mind showing me those shots? Really, I'm curious, especially after rereading the chapter in which this was in several times over and inspecting each and every panel. Do you honestly think I'm going to take your word for this simply because you said so? This is literally what you said to me a few sentences ago. Your comment is extremely hypocritical.

In fact Shigaraki has to jump upwards in order to reach their height. I would take an estimate and say that the Nomu was somewhere between SS and Shigaraki and that's still multiple kilometers.

But you don't know the exact distance. You're just guessing at this point, with no evidence to even back up your hypothesis. This is silly and immature.

2. Encircle the Nomu? That's Stars and Stripes in the panel? What are you talking about? They were moving towards stars and stripes to provide her place to stand. Did you even read it properly or are just providing scans without thinking?

Okay. Prove it then. Prove to me that the person that I encircled in the scan you saw is Star and Stripes. Because it literally has the same shape as the Nomu in the panel that's left to it. Take a look for yourself if it wasn't already obvious.

Try and tell me that these two shapes aren't similar.

3. When did I say that the Nomu was close to the jets. It was only some what similar in elevation. They were similar in height but the horizontal distance of the jets was much greater and that's why they didn't take any damage but the Nomu did. If you don't know, an explosion causes less damage the farther it is from an object.

My point still stands. The jets could've easily flown down to the Nomu's elevation and targetted it. In fact, the pilots confirm this themselves. They state this in the most obvious possible to the point that it'd be impossible to not consider their word. You can even SEE them flying towards the Nomu.

4. Zero evidence? At least I don't provide WRONG evidence. Gonna curse now because you wanna look cool and can't come up with a better argument?

I'm gonna have to take a giant swig of ******* vodka after this, I swear.

If you have zero evidence, that means you're argument has nothing backing it up. That means that anything you claim or state has nothing supporting it, suggesting that it is correct, or even anything information or evidence to go with it. That is, by all means, an invalid argument. And you have the NERVE to act as if that's better than having an incorrect argument with evidence? You haven't even proved me wrong, you have no right to say that. I cannot take you seriously at this point. I really can't. It's impossible for me to do so with this much incompetence present in your paragraphs.

I'm not even saying this to be condescending. This is just pure and utter incompetence and neglect of your debating position.

I will assume you don't have eyes from now. The impact crater was literally on the ground, what are you talking about?

And the Nomu couldn't have been pushed up? Hell, it is literally stated by Shigaraki himself to have a flying quirk.

You wanna know what that means? It means it can fly. And if it can fly, it can be assumed that it traveled from the impact crater to whatever distance that can be assumed. To put it in simple words, this means that the Nomu could've been at the epic center of the explosion, and then flew up after the fireball dispersed and into where Shigaraki or Star was (assuming that it was even on their same elevation, which I doubt that it is).

Here, take your L.

I think you have the definitions for an L and a W backward. There's no way in hell that anything I just took from you was an L.

Based off the scan you posted the Nomu is at least a dozen or two dozen meters to the left of Shigaraki who jumped out of a hole from the center of the crater and that's not counting the distance the Nomu is above the crater itself in the air.

What makes you think it's a few meters from the epicenter. Do you have any way to confirm this yourself instead of eyeballing it? And this is discounting the idea that the Nomu flew away from the epicenter itself since it was instructed by Shigaraki to detonate near the pilots and damage their aircraft. It was likely traveling towards said aircraft.

Yeah that's how the whole thing played out they literally couldn't tell the Nomu and Shigaraki apart at just shot at it assuming it was Shigaraki. Star was under pressure to finish the fight with the missiles in bound. She had to catch the incoming missiles then use them to punch a moving target in the air while she was kilometers in the air with the giant's height around 2200 meters. Star herself must have been at least 3-4 kilometers away from the Nomu since she wasn't caught in the blast. In all the instances prior that Star hit Shigaraki with the giant he was much closer to Star. Is it really hard to believe she didn't hit it dead center? Even if the Nomu was hit dead center I still don't agree with using 1/10 that seems incredibly arbitrary compared to the sites standards. It should either be the Nomu was hit dead on so it fully scales or the Nomu was close to the blast and only took a fraction ie use surface area not something in the middle like 1/10.

So you mean to tell me after a dozen fighters jet held the Nomu in place with several lasers (which are potent enough to be fatal towards Shigaraki if left unchecked by his quirks) and after the Nomu was specifically designed to be a decoy deployed to fool Star and the pilots into thinking that they hit Shigaraki, that Star and Stripes would have a hard time aiming at the Nomu? She's essentially striking an immobile target at speeds that even Shigaraki could not escape from most likely. How in the seven hells would she miss her shot?

The Nomu scaling to 1/10th of the blast makes sense considering how it wasn't even killed by the missiles. It would scale to at least a portion of the bomb's energy. And that would make it 7-A.

And your whole argument is that Stars and Stripes can't miss while she is handling ten missiles in one hand, piloting a huge cloud monster and floating 2 kilometers in the sky. She is not infallible like Snipe or Lady Nagant . Your whole argument is "But she can't miss!".
That is nothing different from personal bias.

All the more reason as to why she wouldn't miss. She's many times bigger than the Nomu. It'd be hard for her to not hit that shit dead on.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Implying a number one hero— possibly the strongest hero of all time, only below All Might— missed a punch on a stationary target literally right in front of her? Lol.

If she missed, what did she hit to make the explosion go off? Are the missiles timed or contact based?? Where’s her fist imprint in the ground if she missed??

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I disagree with the downgrade for Earthyboy‘s reasons. And the “she missed” argument is insanely silly

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Imagine punching an ant and missing.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Oh, I'm not agreeing with the downgrade right away. Personally I think the better option is to wait for the anime depiction to see if it can provide some clarification.

I basically share Damage's thoughts about waiting for the anime depiction. Because the Nomu being in the air after the blast ended isn't proof it wasn't hit directly on. But right now we can't really prove that it wasn't or was directly hit with 100% certainty, so waiting for the anime version is our best bet.

However to me it seems like the manga is heavily implying she directly punched the missiles into the Nomu. Right now we'll stick with the current calculation, unless someone has another problem with the calc?

 

[Metalballrun]

While surface area-related calculations is fine and all, and the 1/10 scaling indeed seemed like an arbitrary value agreed on the previous CRT...

Concluding that Star somehow missed a stationary target, which was used specifically as a decoy, is very absurd in all accounts.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

The Nomu is still in the air after being hit for the same reason Deku could wallop Shigaraki with SOOO many 100% punches without his blackwhip just snapping from the force and Shigaraki being sent flying into the next city over: Horikoshi no want to draw that + artistic liberty + artists don’t usually think of physics when drawing cool scenes.