MHS Jujutsu Kaisen should have never existed. (Staff Only)

[M3X_2.0]

A few Jujutsu Kaisen characters are rated as Massively Hypersonic because Hakari dodged a lightning bolt (lmao) at close range. The issue is that this feat is a massive outlier.

There's some arguments I want to make in order to prove that this is an outlier:

• God tier Sukuna uses Piercing Blood
• People think of piercing blood as fast when the reason why it's fast is that it's faster than sound
• Naobito is the second fastest sorcerer specifically with projection sorcery and he barely moves a meter in 1/24th of a second
• Conventional weapons like guns and snipers are smart to use against sorcerers
• Maki needed to be awakened like Toji to perceive a 1/24th time difference
• Choso needed a stacked version of his technique to amp his eyesight to perceive a 1/24th time difference
• Maki and Kamo get statued by Mach 1 stacked cursed womb Naoya
• Maki and Kamo get statued by Mach 3 stacked curse Naoya
• Naoya's faster than a lot of people and needs to stack Projection Sorcery to be subsonic
• Most people couldn't perceive a less than 0.01 time difference between Sukuna and Gojo's domains

Spoiler: arguments

God tier Sukuna uses Piercing Blood

Sukuna, a God Tier of the verse, is relying on a supersonic attack to harm Gojo.

People think of piercing blood as fast when the reason why it's fast is that it's faster than sound

Piercing Blood is a fast attack, as noted by everyone that was attacked by it. Piercing Blood is a constant attack usedin the manga, even by a God Tier, showing that Supersonic speeds are still something considerable.

Naobito is the second fastest sorcerer specifically with projection sorcery and he barely moves a meter in 1/24th of a second

1/24th of a second is 0.04166666667 seconds. Naobito can barely move a meter within this timeframe. 1/0.04166666667 = 24 m/s. He's known as the fastest because of this. In order to get Mach 1 speed with this technique, Naobito has to move about 14 meters, something he was never capable of.

Yuji (a pure physical fighter) and Choso were blitzed by Naoya with the same technique, and Naoya was praised because of his speed, and it wasn't even on its maximum.

Choso needed a stacked version of his technique to amp his eyesight to perceive a 1/24th time difference

Choso needs to use Flowing Red Scale, a technique to amplify his eyesight to notice Naoya moving. It was a stacked version of FRS, making him even faster than using a regular FRS.

Maki needed to be awakened like Toji to perceive a 1/24th time difference

"awakened like Toji" means you're faster than anyone and your speed is constantly praised. She needed to become this fast in order to see a 1/24th of a second.

Conventional weapons like guns and snipers are smart to use against sorcerers

And it was used.

Maki and Kamo get statued by Mach 1 stacked cursed womb Naoya

Naoya moved so fast that Kamo couldn't see anything, and Maki was statued by him here.

Maki and Kamo get statued by Mach 3 stacked curse Naoya

If they couldn't see Mach 1 Naoya, they obviously couldn't see Mach 3 Naoya.

Most people couldn't perceive a less than 0.01 time difference between Sukuna and Gojo's domains

Only Yuta and Higuruma noticed, and barely.

There is no reason to believe that Hakari is hundreds of times faster than all of these characters when there is one known as the fastest sorcerer, or characters that rely in pure speed to fight. Aside from one time that Kashimo said Hakari was getting faster and faster, his speed wasn't praised again in the series. In fact, he's not known to be an exceptionally fast character, like Toji is. Hakari is not an untouchable god like the profiles makes him to be. He's not a hundred times faster than characters that are constantly put on the same level as he is, such as Yuta. Currently, Uraume, a character that doesn't scale to MHS (but rather at Subsonic for fighting subsonic characters) is now facing Hakari and reacting to his attacks.

JJK is very consistent at around subsonic to supersonic, as feats and statements prove. There is no reason to ignore statements and feats about these levels of speed just to make the upper tiers MHS for the sake of wank.

Remove this feat from the scaling. It's wrong.

 

[KingTempest]

Gud job

 

[Duedate8898]

Why is this marked as Staff Only? There's no reason for that

 

[Dalesean027]

Ooop following this

 

[M3X_2.0]

"No reason for that"

Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

Thanks for @Amost6x calculations and got the permission to use this. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amost6x/Hakari_dodge_lightning Both @DemonGodMitchAubin and @Dark-Carioca said the mach 547 end is fine. Kashimo lightning works as how Real life lightining works and has same...

vsbattles.com

 

[Duedate8898]

"No reason for that"

Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

Thanks for @Amost6x calculations and got the permission to use this. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amost6x/Hakari_dodge_lightning Both @DemonGodMitchAubin and @Dark-Carioca said the mach 547 end is fine. Kashimo lightning works as how Real life lightining works and has same...

vsbattles.com

That's not at all a good reason to disbar all but staff from commenting on this thread. Nor in forcing users to constantly go to staff to voice their opinions.

 

[M3X_2.0]

That's not at all a good reason to disbar all but staff from commenting on this thread. Nor in forcing users to constantly go to staff to voice their opinions.

Sorry, but I don't want regular users spamming on this thread like all others. And yes, this is a good reason to do so.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sooo why didnt you make this in the staff thread category to begin with?

CRTs can be staff only without being in the staff discussion too. Actually it was automatic because I only post CRTs.

 

[KingTempest]

Unfortunately I am told that since this is intended to be staff only (idkytf it's in CRT), the regular member comments must be deleted. My apologies

 

[Duedate8898]

Sorry, but I don't want regular users spamming on this thread like all others. And yes, this is a good reason to do so.

Long discussions aren't a reason to keep members from participating. That's not users being disruptive or unruly, that's just a long back and forth. You not wanting it to be long is a personal problem that should not be used to disallow our community from properly participating in this discussion. It wasn't toxic or problematic last time around, so unless that becomes a problem this time. The full community should be allowed to participate

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

People can have faster combat and slower perception my good sir

I'm not saying they can't have different speed but nothing implies Higurama has higher perception speed. I gave my reasoning why Both Higurama and Yuta are the only ones notices that because of both having better understanding. Both are Prodigies of their own. Anyway that also should be noted that's the difference between domains clash difference speed not actual combat speed like m/s.

 

[Dalesean027]

Well M3X who among regular members would you want here anyways, I do feel like not letting at least some of the more productive members of its supporters here not having permission is a bit much.

I can be here for the staff part tho since it does involve calcs and such technically

 

[M3X_2.0]

Long discussions aren't a reason to keep members from participating. That's not users being disruptive or unruly, that's just a long back and forth. You not wanting it to be long is a personal problem that should not be used to disallow our community from properly participating in this discussion. It wasn't toxic or problematic last time around, so unless that becomes a problem this time. The full community should be allowed to participate

Let's stop pretending those were just long debates going back and fourth. Most of these threads are flooded with irrelevant arguments and derailment.

Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

Thanks for @Amost6x calculations and got the permission to use this. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amost6x/Hakari_dodge_lightning Both @DemonGodMitchAubin and @Dark-Carioca said the mach 547 end is fine. Kashimo lightning works as how Real life lightining works and has same...

vsbattles.com

JJK AP Downgrade

Now I know what everyone's thinking "another downgrade!!?" Yeah one that's been needed for close to a year, so lets get into it. (domain expansion is DE and curse energy is ce) - High Tier Ap - Right now on the pages we have characters like Yuta, Uro, and Yuki, Ryu all being rated as "Likely...

vsbattles.com

Jujutsu Kaisen Downgrade

The last chapter of Jujutsu Kaisen shows how Maki cannot react to Naoya's supersonic attack (Mach 3). The chapter has several mentions concerning the speed of sound.

vsbattles.com

JUJUTSU KAISEN SPEED DOWNGRADE CONT.

Continued from this thread There are quite a few problems on the speed pages aside from the value, we have a scaling that does not make sense, for example, this is Yuji's speed justification Massively Hypersonic (Could keep up with both Mahito and Kento. Comparable to Maki, who reacted to and...

vsbattles.com

Jujutsu Kaisen Hax & Addition Thread

OK! So for starters this thread will be for the addition of powers and abilities and also redoing certain abilities. I'll label what and who gets what. Agrees: @Theendzero13 , @Popted2 , @Outcast Disagrees: @ShadowWhoWalks (Empathic Manip Resist), @Nullflowerblush (Empathic Manip resist)...

vsbattles.com

These are all threads with derailment and useless argumentation.

Well M3X who among regular members would you want here anyways

@Dr._whiteee obviously and whoever else wants to argue here actively.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'm not saying they can't have different speed but nothing implies Higurama has higher perception speed. I gave my reasoning why Both Higurama and Yuta are the only ones notices that because of both having better understanding. Both are Prodigies of their own. Anyway that also should be noted that's the difference between domains clash difference speed not actual combat speed like m/s.

Not to mention, analytical and attention to detail is involved in noticing something like that. it just sounds like 2 dudes yelling domain expansion.

@M3X_2.0 may I participate? I also im not strongly against the result of the thread, just the arguments.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sure ig

 

[Arnoldstone18]

whoever else wants to argue here actively.

Oh okay
in that case

@LIFE_OF_KING repost the hypersonic calcs we could look at as potential alternatives. link them.

@SunDaGamer restate the problems with the MHS calc.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Oh okay
in that case

@SunDaGamer restate the problems with the MHS calc.

There's a few issues with the Mach 500 Hakari calc:

• The height used for Hakari is 171.8 cm even though he's taller than Yuji who's 173 cm
• The pixel scaling for the distance Hakari moves is wrong, likely due to the low quality scans, it should be like this
• It uses the distance Kashimo was away from Hakari instead of the distance the bolt was away from Hakari before he moves

I have my own version of the calc with those issues fixed and the same head scaling method to find the distance Hakari moves, it used the speed of electricity but I can substitute it with the speed of lightning:

• Reaction speed: (0.294*440000)/0.05501630434 = 2351302.97376 m/s, Mach 6855.11071 (Massively Hypersonic+) [Beyond the MHS+ cap set by Black Flash's 1 microsecond timeframe]
• Perception time: 0.721/440000 = 1.63863e-6 seconds, 1.63863 microseconds (Massively Hypersonic+)

Hakari ends up being x5.34 faster than lightning he was barely able to react to, this is the same issue that falls under the evading punches rules.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Replace that speed of electricity value with the speed of lightning since that electricity certainly reaches beyond the required voltage for the attack to qualify as lightning/

The rest of your arguments aren't bad, Im interested in White's response to them.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

@LIFE_OF_KING repost the hypersonic calcs we could look at as potential alternatives. link them.

Kenjaku reacting to Piercing Blood

• We have this calc, which is wrong due to the Piercing Blood value being from another calc, but the result isnt below mach 10
• We have this calc as well, which is wrong too, but the real result isnt far from the real one

The main problem here is that Uraume is basically blized by Piercing Blood, who isnt far from Kenjaku in the scaling chain, what creates a big problem. The only possible way to scale Kenjaku massively above Uraume in speed is if we assume that Yuta is as well massively above Hakari, since Yuta can bliz Kenjaku while Hakari is somehow comparable to Uraume. Despiste such logic being currently possible to apply, I dont believe this is gonna last for too long, so its up to you guys to take the risk
Either that or assume that the feat is a outlier and that Gege didnt thought that much about the scene. But to be honest, I dont think such thing makes sense, since Kenjaku dodged 3 Piercing Blood in a roll

Maki Blocking a lightning

• Here (I have seen some other offsite calcs way better that this one tho. The result is around Mach 6.5)

The only problem that I can see for this is the same thing. Maki being massively faster than Uraume doesnt make sense in my view, since she could stop both Itadori and Maki to fight without much trouble even at distance

 

[SunDaGamer]

We have this calc, which is wrong due to the Piercing Blood value being from another calc, but the result isnt far from the correct version

Part 1 of that calc already has an issue with distance scaling, Choso catches his Convergence orbs in his palms so Piercing Blood is fired from his palms (the anime makes this clear too), not his fingertip like the calc is using to get a distance of 0.00394137931m.
Part 2 of that calc uses a 252 degree rotation for Kenjaku spinning the top of his head which we can see isn't really the case in the panel where Piercing Blood hits him which ends up heavily inflating the results.

We have this calc as well, which is wrong too, but the real result isnt far from the real one

The main issues with this calc are the fact that the panels that show Kenjaku dodging Piercing Blood happen after Piercing Blood has already made it's way past him (1 2) the results that calc is getting are the speed Kenjaku has to move at to complete his movements before Piercing Blood closes the gap between them when he started to react. The distance scaling for Kenjaku's second dodge is also wrong as pointed out by Therefir in the comments (getting 1.8 cm away for this is definitely wrong because the angsizing done here isn't apropriate)

Maki Blocking a lightning

• Here (I have seen some other offsite calcs way better that this one tho. The result is around Mach 6.5)

I don't think Nue's attacks are called lightning and even the lowest end of this calc is already a highballed result (highballing from the fact that Nue's attacks start above the POV, making the distance they have to travel actually even longer than calced)

 

[KingTempest]

Kenjaku reacting to Piercing Blood

• We have this calc, which is wrong due to the Piercing Blood value being from another calc, but the result isnt below mach 10

Calc's based on the assumption that Kenjaku didn't start to move when Choso was taking forever to actually blast. Plus, Piercing blood doesn't start from the fingertips. It starts from the palms.

Also, it does not need to rotate that damn much at all. All he had to do was line up the attack with his stitches so the attack could slip his head, and he could tilt it a little.

Also

For Part 2, we'll find the speed needed for Kenjaku to rotate his head for it to only skim the stiches on his head and not go through it. The head length of a man is 18cm. Now to find the distance his head would have rotate, we'll just need to find the arc length. According to this for the head to be inline with the shoulder it only needs 70% rotation on the low end.

Arc length: 0.2199115m

Divide that by 2. The radius of the head is needed, so half of that

• We have this calc as well, which is wrong too, but the real result isnt far from the real one

This is wrong. Kenjaku only needed to move his head out the way. He didn't move his head that much for the Piercing Blood to move a few cm, he just kept moving it after he narrowly dodged it. Also, the piercing blood covers a larger distance than him in the calced panel.

Maki Blocking lightning

• Here (I have seen some other offsite calcs way better that this one tho. The result is around Mach 6.5)

Massively increase the height of the lightning. One of the few things that makes this lightning speed is it being ctg. Use cloud height.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Massively increase the height of the lightning. One of the few things that makes this lightning speed is it being ctg. Use cloud height.

(0.69885454545*440000)/2000 = 153.748 m/s, Mach 0.45 (more Subsonic consistency )

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Use cloud height.

Agree with everything, but cloud height here doesnt make sense. Nue summon lightnins from its feathers

Rest makes sense

 

[Maitreya12]

Look….

JJK has a somewhat consistent speed increase so long as you remember the author is absolutely awful at any type of speed scaling pas sub-hypersonic ranges.

Piercing blood is considered fast at Mach 1

Cursed Naoya, who was previously having trouble against Choso as a human, gets an increase to Mach 3 which is seen as incredibly fast by top tiers in the verse.

Gojo’s 200% hollow purple went at a little over Mach 10 when he fired it based on the real life distances Gege both used and mentions. This makes sense because Gojo is seen as the pinnacle of the verse and his attack is sizably above Naoya’s Mach 3 type speed which he needed to become a cursed spirit to even be able to perform.

This is all a relatively consistent chain of becoming faster the stronger the characters are.

The cases in which we get massively hypersonic stuff are pretty big outliers that are based on very minute feats, along with the general inconsistency the author has shown in regards to how fast the attack he’s putting in moves and what that means for the character in question who dodged said moves.

Like for example, one of the more egregious examples which happened very recently mind you was Sukuna getting tagged by SONIC WAVES yet somehow, at the same time being perfectly capable of dodging ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES at point blank range, while extremely injured no less too.

Outside of the sheer and mind boggling inconstancy there is from the fact that Sukuna was somehow tagged at something that moved at the speed of sound but dodged something that moved at the speed of light the very next page after, the very fact that Sukuna is able to perform what is by en large, the best speed feat in the entire series by orders of magnitude, while being critically injured no less, suggests to me that the author didn’t understand the nature of the move he’s detailing, leading to incredibly high yielding results that are not intended to be interpreted with how the general narrative has portrayed the characters’ speeds in question.

That’s my two cents on the matter, take it how you will.

 

[KingTempest]

Agree with everything, but cloud height here doesnt make sense. Nue summon lightnins from its feathers

Rest makes sense

What makes Nue's lightning lightning speed then if it ain't ctg other than paralysis? If nothing, then... it can't even be used

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

What makes Nue's lightning lightning speed then if it ain't ctg other than paralysis? If nothing, then... it can't even be used

Nue is compared to Kashimo's lightning

Tbh, you could argue that she just have put her arms there to protect herself from further damage after alredy being hit, since if she could move at that speed she could have just dodged insted of blocking, especially considering her precog

 

[KingTempest]

Nue is compared to Kashimo's lightning

Your link is doodoo, but it just says that it's just like how Nue's always electrified and it has the same properties as electricity. Doesn't mean that it has the properties that Panda didn't know about, aka actual lightning properties.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Nue's power has always been referred to as electricity

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Your link is doodoo, but it just says that it's just like how Nue's always electrified and it has the same properties as electricity. Doesn't mean that it has the properties that Panda didn't know about, aka actual lightning properties.

Sure, I guess thats fair. I would prefer to get rid of the feat via being uncertain about if Maki really blocked the lightning before hit her, but thats work

Other than that, I dont think that theres anything to bypass the Mach 3 cap for the top tiers

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

There is no reason to believe that Hakari is hundreds of times faster than all of these characters when there is one known as the fastest sorcerer,

There is no reason to believe it otherwise, but Hakari isn't even a Jujutsu Sorcerer anymore, he's just a curse user.

In fact, he's not known to be an exceptionally fast character, like Toji is

He's put in the same pedestal as awakened Maki, who is equal to Toji

 

[KingTempest]

There is no reason to believe it otherwise, but Hakari isn't even a Jujutsu Sorcerer anymore, he's just a curse user.

No he is not.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Dude’s reading Witchery Fuckery

 

[KingTempest]

Dude’s reading Witchery Fuckery

Wizard101

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

but Hakari isn't even a Jujutsu Sorcerer anymore, he's just a curse user.

Any curse user is automtically a sorcerer. The name "sorcerer" is given due to the different biology

Its basically the name of a specie

 

[PowerToScale]

Another case of not understand JJK.

God tier Sukuna uses Piercing Blood

Sukuna, a God Tier of the verse, is relying on a supersonic attack to harm Gojo.

People think of piercing blood as fast when the reason why it's fast is that it's faster than sound

Piercing Blood is a fast attack, as noted by everyone that was attacked by it. Piercing Blood is a constant attack usedin the manga, even by a God Tier, showing that Supersonic speeds are still something considerable.

This argument has a faulty understanding of how Piercing Blood works, particularly regarding its speed. Piercing Blood, involves compressing blood and propelling it in a laser-like beam, with it surpassing the speed of sound. The misconception lies in the notion that the attack's speed is limited by a numerical value or specific speed, which is not the case. Rather, the speed is intricately tied to the level of compression applied.

The OP claims are incorrect, they imply limitations on Piercing Blood's speed that are unfounded. Unlike being confined to a fixed supersonic speed, the attack's velocity can vary significantly based on the extent of compression. For instance, characters like Kamo achieve Mach 1.3, while those with greater compressive capabilities, such as Choso, can reach speeds between Mach 1.5 and Mach 2.5.

Sukuna's Piercing Blood is assumed to be limited to supersonic speeds, when we know that isn't the case as Sukuna is entire leagues above the aforementioned characters, we even see him dodge Electromagnetic waves and casually speed blitz Choso's Piercing Blood before it could reach his position and hit Choso. So there is no reason to assume they Sukuna's Piercing Blood was only supersonic unless you want to downplay.

Naobito is the second fastest sorcerer specifically with projection sorcery and he barely moves a meter in 1/24th of a second

1/24th of a second is 0.04166666667 seconds. Naobito can barely move a meter within this timeframe. 1/0.04166666667 = 24 m/s. He's known as the fastest because of this. In order to get Mach 1 speed with this technique, Naobito has to move about 14 meters, something he was never capable of.

Yuji (a pure physical fighter) and Choso were blitzed by Naoya with the same technique, and Naoya was praised because of his speed, and it wasn't even on its maximum.

To break it down for everyone, we never got to see Naobito's top speed or him being serious when health. This argument doesn't include that information in order to make it seem like Naobito speed is slower than it is. In fact Naoya, Naobito's son, who is a praised character for his speed isn't considered the second fastest or ever mentioned to be the fastest behind Gojo like his dad, breaks the sound barrier, which in turn means Naobito is faster. This means that Sound < Naoya Top Speed < Naobito Top Speed.

Naobito is know to be the fastest sorcerer behind Gojo in JJK society at the time. We assume they had knowledge on Hakari's speed at the time as well. This would mean that Naobito above Hakari, which isn't wrong. So in turn Naobito would be Massively Hypersonic as well.

Now the argument "How can he be faster than Hakari if he hasn't when feats" doesn't work for 1 main reason, we've never seen a health Naobito at his top speed, we see in the events of Shibuya that a Drunk Naobito was playing around with Dagon until he got caught in his domain and lost an arm, this lose of arm in turn lowered his speed significantly. He never displayed his level of speed because he never had a chance to.

"How can Naobito be so fast if Naoya could only break the sound barrier", Having the same technique doesn't mean having the same speed, this is why Naobito is considered the fastest every single time, not Naoya ignoring that difference not only breaks down canon speed scaling but goes in to downplay. Naoya who has the same technique as his dad is slower, he's fast, faster than the slowest of characters but when it cones to his dad and high-god tiers he's slow.

Also the whole Naoya blitzing Yuji is a big yike for everyone, as yuji who has a canon reaction time faster than Todo whole can react in 0.01 seconds, implementing that would result the feats in low supersonic, so you'd probabaly want to remove that from your arguement to make it stronger lmao.

In this discussion, we will examine more closely at the subtleties of Naobito's speed and the comparisons that are made. First and first, it's important to acknowledge that we haven't seen Naobito perform to his maximum speed when in healthy condition. The argument seems to attempt to reduce his speed by omitting out these essential details. During the events of Shibuya, we see a drunk and non-serious Naobito fight Dagon while messing around with him, he proceeds to casually blitz him and as well as Maki and Nanami. unexpectedly Naobito loses his arm after getting trapped in Dagon's domain which in turn lowers his over capabilities, including his speed.

The argument made here is that since we never seen him perform feats of moving

Conventional weapons like guns and snipers are smart to use against sorcerers

And it was used.

Yeah because guns don't have cursed energy and therefore can't be sensed, hence why Toji could sneak in and Shoot Riko since both him and the gun have no cursed energy.

Choso needed a stacked version of his technique to amp his eyesight to perceive a 1/24th time difference

Choso needs to use Flowing Red Scale, a technique to amplify his eyesight to notice Naoya moving. It was a stacked version of FRS, making him even faster than using a regular FRS.

Maki needed to be awakened like Toji to perceive a 1/24th time difference

"awakened like Toji" means you're faster than anyone and your speed is constantly praised. She needed to become this fast in order to see a 1/24th of a second.

Yeah...? Ah yes Maki who wouldn't perceive the casual drunk Naobito now can see Top Speed naoya who breaks the sound barrier after getting a amp? Same with Choso he amps his eyes to see Naoya's speed. What's your point here because you are arguing that Massively hypersonic speeds are invalid yet you bring up characters who at the time were not even close to that level of speed.

Ah yes the subsonic guy is slower than the speed sound of girl, so guy C who is faster than them can't be massively hypersonic lmao.

Maki and Kamo get statued by Mach 1 stacked cursed womb Naoya

Naoya moved so fast that Kamo couldn't see anything, and Maki was statued by him here.

Maki and Kamo get statued by Mach 3 stacked curse Naoya

If they couldn't see Mach 1 Naoya, they obviously couldn't see Mach 3 Naoya.

Because Kamo is slower? This is leaving out important information. Maki at the time was on partially awakened, hence here only being able to intercept supersonic Cursed womb Naoya, after that Naoya transforms anfde becomes a full curse. Hence reaching Mach 3 speeds now, Maki isn't able to keep up and struggles to understand why. She then fights the Sumo dude who awakens here to her fullest self and then proceeds to dodge everything that Naoya throws at here and becomes agree that she is faster than him as he proclaims to be the fastest there.

Fun fact: Kamo being statued comes out to hypersonic speeds. Gege was never consistent

Most people couldn't perceive a less than 0.01 time difference between Sukuna and Gojo's domains
Only Yuta and Higuruma noticed, and barely.

There is a difference between a domain clash and and actual combat speed. Not only that but A large portion of the the crown watching have true understanding of how a domain works. Hakari himself also gets told that his domain functions differently and not something he complete understood. Higuruma and Yuta prodigies who have a strong understanding on cursed energy and domains.

There is no reason to believe that Hakari is hundreds of times faster than all of these characters when there is one known as the fastest sorcerer, or characters that rely in pure speed to fight. Aside from one time that Kashimo said Hakari was getting faster and faster, his speed wasn't praised again in the series. In fact, he's not known to be an exceptionally fast character, like Toji is. Hakari is not an untouchable god like the profiles makes him to be. He's not a hundred times faster than characters that are constantly put on the same level as he is, such as Yuta. Currently, Uraume, a character that doesn't scale to MHS (but rather at Subsonic for fighting subsonic characters) is now facing Hakari and reacting to his attacks.

JJK is very consistent at around subsonic to supersonic, as feats and statements prove. There is no reason to ignore statements and feats about these levels of speed just to make the upper tiers MHS for the sake of wank.

Remove this feat from the scaling. It's wrong.

Again He isn't, Naobito is faster than Hakari, this doesn't mean he isn't Massively Hypersonic. Not everything is going to be spoon-fed, narrative context is something the is prevalent in jjk. The fact the author acknowledges that its lightning and Hakari dodges it showcases a high level of speed in the story, its not something that needs to be said. It quite simple to pick up on. It simple: Naobito is the fastest which means he faster than Hakari who has combat speeds of reactign and dodging lightning.

Hakari is not an untouchable god like the profiles makes him to be

Beefing with fictional characters is crazy.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Friendly reminder that this is a Staff Discussion thread, so non-staff need to get permission from a Thread Mod, Admin, or Bureaucrat to make a post here

 

[PowerToScale]

Friendly reminder that this is a Staff Discussion thread, so non-staff need to get permission from a Thread Mod, Admin, or Bureaucrat to make a post here

The post was in the content revision thread at the time I responded

 

[KingTempest]

The post was in the content revision thread at the time I responded

No it was not. You just didn't refresh the page. It said staff only from creation and it was put in staff discussion hours ago

 

[Dalesean027]

Electromagnetic waves

Bro actually shooting for the FTL

 

[KingTempest]

Why do I always gotta tackle the research papers

Another case of not understand JJK.

This argument has a faulty understanding of how Piercing Blood works, particularly regarding its speed. Piercing Blood, involves compressing blood and propelling it in a laser-like beam, with it surpassing the speed of sound. The misconception lies in the notion that the attack's speed is limited by a numerical value or specific speed, which is not the case. Rather, the speed is intricately tied to the level of compression applied.

The OP claims are incorrect, they imply limitations on Piercing Blood's speed that are unfounded. Unlike being confined to a fixed supersonic speed, the attack's velocity can vary significantly based on the extent of compression. For instance, characters like Kamo achieve Mach 1.3, while those with greater compressive capabilities, such as Choso, can reach speeds between Mach 1.5 and Mach 2.5.

Sukuna's Piercing Blood is assumed to be limited to supersonic speeds, when we know that isn't the case as Sukuna is entire leagues above the aforementioned characters, we even see him dodge Electromagnetic waves and casually speed blitz Choso's Piercing Blood before it could reach his position and hit Choso. So there is no reason to assume they Sukuna's Piercing Blood was only supersonic unless you want to downplay.

This could've been said in a much shorter essay.
Piercing Blood's initial speed is supersonic. That means that the later part that people end up dodging and blocking isn't.
There are limitations, due to it being known as supersonic in its initial speed, implying that the rest of it isn't, and people get tagged by the slower portion.

To break it down for everyone, we never got to see Naobito's top speed or him being serious when health. This argument doesn't include that information in order to make it seem like Naobito speed is slower than it is. In fact Naoya, Naobito's son, who is a praised character for his speed isn't considered the second fastest or ever mentioned to be the fastest behind Gojo like his dad, breaks the sound barrier, which in turn means Naobito is faster. This means that Sound < Naoya Top Speed < Naobito Top Speed.

Naobito is know to be the fastest sorcerer behind Gojo in JJK society at the time. We assume they had knowledge on Hakari's speed at the time as well. This would mean that Naobito above Hakari, which isn't wrong. So in turn Naobito would be Massively Hypersonic as well.

Now the argument "How can he be faster than Hakari if he hasn't when feats" doesn't work for 1 main reason, we've never seen a health Naobito at his top speed, we see in the events of Shibuya that a Drunk Naobito was playing around with Dagon until he got caught in his domain and lost an arm, this lose of arm in turn lowered his speed significantly. He never displayed his level of speed because he never had a chance to.

"How can Naobito be so fast if Naoya could only break the sound barrier", Having the same technique doesn't mean having the same speed, this is why Naobito is considered the fastest every single time, not Naoya ignoring that difference not only breaks down canon speed scaling but goes in to downplay. Naoya who has the same technique as his dad is slower, he's fast, faster than the slowest of characters but when it cones to his dad and high-god tiers he's slow.

Also the whole Naoya blitzing Yuji is a big yike for everyone, as yuji who has a canon reaction time faster than Todo whole can react in 0.01 seconds, implementing that would result the feats in low supersonic, so you'd probabaly want to remove that from your arguement to make it stronger lmao.

In this discussion, we will examine more closely at the subtleties of Naobito's speed and the comparisons that are made. First and first, it's important to acknowledge that we haven't seen Naobito perform to his maximum speed when in healthy condition. The argument seems to attempt to reduce his speed by omitting out these essential details. During the events of Shibuya, we see a drunk and non-serious Naobito fight Dagon while messing around with him, he proceeds to casually blitz him and as well as Maki and Nanami. unexpectedly Naobito loses his arm after getting trapped in Dagon's domain which in turn lowers his over capabilities, including his speed.

The argument made here is that since we never seen him perform feats of moving

First of all, nothing makes that a sonic boom.

Second of all, you missed the entire point. The point is that he needed to repeatedly stack his PS to reach that, implying he's far slower than sound at his non/maximum speed, and he's faster than a lot of people.

Saying that Naobito needs to stack his damn projection sorcery to the absolute limit to be the fastest sorcerer diminishes Naobito's entire showings, as his showings make him seem faster than most characters without it.

That's like saying Gojo's only the strongest sorcerer with his domain, or that Tengen is the most powerful barrier user solely with his strongest barrier, or that Sukuna's only the strongest with his dimension slash, or that Mahoraga is the strongest shikigami from the 10 shadows only after he's adapted to its peak capabilities..

Jackpot Hakari (the one who did the feat) is relative to Uraume, who sees Piercing Blood, the technique with the initial velocity of > mach 1 and the final velocity of < mach 1, as fast. Scaling them to thousands of times the value you state is Mach 2.5 makes little sense.

Yuji has no reason to have a larger reaction time than Todo. Also, that isn't a reaction time. It's a time of thought. On top of that, this isn't a Mach 1 wall. it's a wall to shit on MHS.

Your whole argument is tackling an OP of "they're slower than sound" when the OP shows "they're slower than MHS"

Yeah because guns don't have cursed energy and therefore can't be sensed, hence why Toji could sneak in and Shoot Riko since both him and the gun have no cursed energy.

Headcanon. Toji doesn't have CE and can't be sensed yet he uses guns against sorcerers. He could easily just run up and stab whoever since with your logic he's faster than bullets by running alone.

Also, that's bullshit. Kenjaku was saying that to Mai, who specifically reinforces her bullets with cursed energy.
It's cause they're quick and they ******* hurt.

Yeah...? Ah yes Maki who wouldn't perceive the casual drunk Naobito now can see Top Speed naoya who breaks the sound barrier after getting a amp? Same with Choso he amps his eyes to see Naoya's speed. What's your point here because you are arguing that Massively hypersonic speeds are invalid yet you bring up characters who at the time were not even close to that level of speed.

Ah yes the subsonic guy is slower than the speed sound of girl, so guy C who is faster than them can't be massively hypersonic lmao.

Implying those who Maki can track prior fall under that limit with the 1/24th timeframe movement.

Because Kamo is slower? This is leaving out important information. Maki at the time was on partially awakened, hence here only being able to intercept supersonic Cursed womb Naoya, after that Naoya transforms and becomes a full curse. Hence reaching Mach 3 speeds now, Maki isn't able to keep up and struggles to understand why. She then fights the Sumo dude who awakens here to her fullest self and then proceeds to dodge everything that Naoya throws at here and becomes agree that she is faster than him as he proclaims to be the fastest there.

Maki was not "partially awakened". The only time she was partially awakened was before Mai's death. She just didn't have his senses. She was the same speed the entire time, known to be equal to Toji before Mai's death and after Mai's death.
When she said "what makes me different from Toji", she ain't say "speed".

You don't understand anything the OP is referencing. Most of these characters can combat or track each other, yet they can't track speeds easily trackable by those under supersonic speeds.

Fun fact: Kamo being statued comes out to hypersonic speeds. Gege was never consistent

When you calc it, probably with wanked values.

There is a difference between a domain clash and and actual combat speed. Not only that but A large portion of the the crown watching have true understanding of how a domain works. Hakari himself also gets told that his domain functions differently and not something he complete understood. Higuruma and Yuta prodigies who have a strong understanding on cursed energy and domains.

Means nothing at all. I don't need to know how a jet works to see a jet and an arrow fly at the same time and see which one crosses a line first.

Again He isn't, Naobito is faster than Hakari, this doesn't mean he isn't Massively Hypersonic. Not everything is going to be spoon-fed, narrative context is something the is prevalent in jjk. The fact the author acknowledges that its lightning and Hakari dodges it showcases a high level of speed in the story, its not something that needs to be said. It quite simple to pick up on. It simple: Naobito is the fastest which means he faster than Hakari who has combat speeds of reactign and dodging lightning.

You can't say narrative context then in the same breath talk about how the author "isn't consistent".
You use a few outlier feats to go against the grain and say that those few feats are what the author really intended.
If Gege intended high speeds, the highest speed he would've said wouldn't be damn Mach 3.