Mitsuri Dodges Lightning Calc Replacement

[Epyriel]

This calculation was recently criticized for using an assumption in its distance measurement, and so for the sake of optimal accuracy I have decided to quickly recalculate it using an apparent time approach to quantify a more precise timeframe.

In the course of doing so, I also noticed that the wrong pixel measurement for Mitsuri's pupillary distance got copy pasted into the arctan formula for the apparent angle.

As such, here is the recalculation that fixes both errors:

Demon Slayer - Mitsuri Dodges Lightning 2

vsbattles.fandom.com

The change from the existing accepted value is marginal (only about 3%), so no tiers get changed which should make this a pretty simple matter.

(2) Agree: Dark-Carioca, Floxy178
(0) Disagree:
(0) Neutral:

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Not a fan of how the calc uses the anime to gauge distance between the lightning and Mitsuri and then uses the manga for how much mitsuri jumps in relation to the lightning, esp cuz the manga shows the lightning crossing way more distance compared to her

Shoulda used one medium only tbh

 

[Epyriel]

Not a fan of how the calc uses the anime to gauge distance between the lightning and Mitsuri and then uses the manga for how much mitsuri jumps in relation to the lightning, esp cuz the manga shows the lightning crossing way more distance compared to her

Shoulda used one medium only tbh

The anime has the camera pan upwards as Mitsuri jumps which makes getting a jump distance a bit difficult. Also thought people would complain if I used the anime distance since Mitsuri jumps higher than the distance shown in the manga.

Not that this really has anything to do with swapping calcs as they both do that.

 

[NikHelton]

I have a slight issue with using lightning speed because in the anime and manga when the wood dragon attacks Mitsuri the shock waves move at the same time as the lightning, when they should be 400 times slower. Wouldn't it be better to use the speed of electricity which ranges from 560 m/sec to 4000 m/sec?

 

[Epyriel]

I have a slight issue with using lightning speed because in the anime and manga when the wood dragon attacks Mitsuri the shock waves move at the same time as the lightning, when they should be 400 times slower.

Zohakuten’s lightning has already been accepted as real lightning in a thread to prevent objections like this.

Not that this really has anything to do with swapping calcs as they both do that.

Wouldn't it be better to use the speed of electricity which ranges from 560 m/sec to 4000 m/sec?

I dislike this concept, as the ‘speed of electricity in air’ (more accurately called the speed of the stepped leader of an electric spark) can be literally anything beyond the parameter of the minimum voltage for the distance travelled.

Lightning itself is an example of this, just a particular phenomenon of an electric spark. The calc you are referring to is measurements taken from the electrical sparks of a Tesla coil of a certain voltage, but there is nothing special about it. You could take a completely different voltage with a different setup and get a completely different number.

 

[NikHelton]

Zohakuten’s lightning has already been accepted as real lightning in a thread to prevent objections like this.

Not that this really has anything to do with swapping calcs as they both do that.

The argument for lightning speed was to use the properties of electricity and the fact that Hantengu's lightning came from above. However, in Zohakuten's case, it comes from the dragon. The speed of electricity seems more logical to me, but if no one agrees with it, then I will not argue

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The anime has the camera pan upwards as Mitsuri jumps which makes getting a jump distance a bit difficult. Also thought people would complain if I used the anime distance since Mitsuri jumps more than her entire height in a single frame, which is greater than the distance shown in the manga.

Not that this really has anything to do with swapping calcs as they both do that.

Then use the anime for the jump distance too, that isn’t a contradiction since you don’t know at what point she jumped in relation to the lightning so it’s fine, calculating with values from two different values is a big red flag unless you’re extracting timeframe for KE calcs

 

[Epyriel]

The argument for lightning speed was to use the properties of electricity and the fact that Hantengu's lightning came from above. However, in Zohakuten's case, it comes from the dragon. The speed of electricity seems more logical to me, but if no one agrees with it, then I will not argue

It is the same attack and the thread covered both Sekido and Zohakuten. If you want to overturn this you will need your own thread.

Then use the anime for the jump distance too, that isn’t a contradiction since you don’t know at what point she jumped in relation to the lightning so it’s fine, calculating with values from two different values is a big red flag unless you’re extracting timeframe for KE calcs

I guess I can work on another end to add to the calc using the anime distance just for the sake of it.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

following

 

[Epyriel]

I guess I can work on another end to add to the calc using the anime distance just for the sake of it.

Done.

 

[Floxy178]

I prefer anime end. Just shouldn’t you use lower leg (39.2 cm) for arc instead of full leg length? Everything else seems good to me.

 

[Vzearr]

I prefer anime end. Just shouldn’t you use lower leg (39.2 cm) for arc instead of full leg length? Everything else seems good to me.

Did we forget everything we learned in powerscaling school? (/Joke).

Manga distance is a highball. To put it simply, this calculation operates under the basis of a false assumption, that the lightning had just made contact with the ground at the exact moment Mitsuri moved 1.51 Meters. In reality, the timeframe is flawed, the lightning clearly struck prior to her motion being completed.

To illustrate this more clearly:

I punch a wall.
You calculate it and say I just touched the wall.
The wall has a deep crater.
I did not just touch the wall, I moved more distance because my fist is inside of the crater.

On the opposite side of the spectrum we come to find that the distance moved by the lightning is also wrong. However, I won't go into that as the feat is already unusable on the basis of my previous debunk.

Edit: Forgot about the anime distance, that's also wrong, I'll get into it later.

 

[Floxy178]

Did we forget everything we learned in powerscaling school? (/Joke).

Manga distance is a highball. To put it simply, this calculation operates under the basis of a false assumption, that the lightning had just made contact with the ground at the exact moment Mitsuri moved 1.51 Meters. In reality, the timeframe is flawed, the lightning clearly struck prior to her motion being completed.

To illustrate this more clearly:

I punch a wall.
You calculate it and say I just touched the wall.
The wall has a deep crater.
I did not just touch the wall, I moved more distance because my fist is inside of the crater.

This is correct. Either minimum escape distance for Mitsuri or distance moved while still traveling for lightning should be used for such feats.

 

[Epyriel]

Did we forget everything we learned in powerscaling school? (/Joke).

Manga distance is a highball. To put it simply, this calculation operates under the basis of a false assumption, that the lightning had just made contact with the ground at the exact moment Mitsuri moved 1.51 Meters. In reality, the timeframe is flawed, the lightning clearly struck prior to her motion being completed.

To illustrate this more clearly:

I punch a wall.
You calculate it and say I just touched the wall.
The wall has a deep crater.
I did not just touch the wall, I moved more distance because my fist is inside of the crater.

On the opposite side of the spectrum we come to find that the distance moved by the lightning is also wrong. However, I won't go into that as the feat is already unusable on the basis of my previous debunk.

Edit: Forgot about the anime distance, that's also wrong, I'll get into it later.

We see the anime show that Mitsuri travelled that distance nigh instantaneously in that timeframe well before the lightning would have a chance to even reach her face (let alone the ground) at the rate it was going. The only reason I used the manga distance at all was for the sake of a lowballed distance, but sure, I can just stick with what we actually see played out in detail in the anime.

 

[Epyriel]

Just shouldn’t you use lower leg (39.2 cm) for arc instead of full leg length? Everything else seems good to me.

I just used half the length of her leg (which is why the /2 is in there). In reality the motion is a partial contribution from your lower leg and upper leg but the net result is the same.

 

[Floxy178]

I just used half the length of her leg (which is why the /2 is in there). In reality the motion is a partial contribution from your lower leg and upper leg but the net result is the same.

Oh, I see. I missed /2 part.

By the way, did Dark give his evaluation when there was only manga version? If so we probably need to tag him.

Edit: nvm

 

[Epyriel]

Oh, I see. I missed /2 part.

By the way, did Dark give his evaluation when there was only manga version? If so we probably need to tag him.

He gave it when I had both options up but didn’t specify which he preferred.

 

[Arsuzz]

Did we forget everything we learned in powerscaling school? (/Joke).

Manga distance is a highball. To put it simply, this calculation operates under the basis of a false assumption, that the lightning had just made contact with the ground at the exact moment Mitsuri moved 1.51 Meters. In reality, the timeframe is flawed, the lightning clearly struck prior to her motion being completed.

To illustrate this more clearly:

I punch a wall.
You calculate it and say I just touched the wall.
The wall has a deep crater.
I did not just touch the wall, I moved more distance because my fist is inside of the crater.

On the opposite side of the spectrum we come to find that the distance moved by the lightning is also wrong. However, I won't go into that as the feat is already unusable on the basis of my previous debunk.

Edit: Forgot about the anime distance, that's also wrong, I'll get into it later.

Oh, I see. I missed /2 part.

By the way, did Dark give his evaluation when there was only manga version? If so we probably need to tag him.

Edit: nvm

Does this mean that the calculation will be rejected/downgraded?

 

[Epyriel]

Does this mean that the calculation will be rejected/downgraded?

Unless the popular verses rule applies to CGM threads I believe 2 are enough to say this is concluded.

 

[Floxy178]

Does this mean that the calculation will be rejected/downgraded?

That only affects manga version if I'm not missing anything.

 

[Epyriel]

That only affects manga version if I'm not missing anything.

Yep.

 

[MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden]

Not a fan of how the calc uses the anime to gauge distance between the lightning and Mitsuri and then uses the manga for how much mitsuri jumps in relation to the lightning, esp cuz the manga shows the lightning crossing way more distance compared to her

Shoulda used one medium only tbh

Anime is canon and gives a clearer shot, not really seeing the issue here..

reading conprehension devil strikes, ignore this

this calculation operates under the basis of a false assumption, that the lightning had just made contact with the ground at the exact moment Mitsuri moved 1.51 Meters. In reality, the timeframe is flawed, the lightning clearly struck prior to her motion being completed.

We see the lightning visibly moving in slow motion in comparison to her own movements and slashes, while she jumped and covered the distance to the air nigh instantly in the episode this is from.



She is at the very least, very clearly portrayed to be quite a bit faster than the lightning bolts here.

 

[Floxy178]

Unless the popular verses rule applies to CGM threads I believe 2 are enough to say this is concluded.

Vzearr said he's gonna post something so it'll be safer to wait for it.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I have a slight issue with using lightning speed because in the anime and manga when the wood dragon attacks Mitsuri the shock waves move at the same time as the lightning, when they should be 400 times slower.

About this, I find it rather unreliable to determine if the lightning bolts were moving at the same speed as the sound waves using only static images (the manga). On the other hand, this is not the case anyways, it's pretty clear the lightning bolts reached the ground before the sound waves, as the manga shows these bolts striking the ground even though the sound waves were still mid-way towards it (that's before and after Mitsuri dodged the attack). The anime makes this even clearer as it shows the bolts tossing away some of the ground while the sound waves still were far away from it again.

Wouldn't it be better to use the speed of electricity which ranges from 560 m/sec to 4000 m/sec?

Not really because, to begin with, that's not even an accepted standard in the wiki. And secondly, those speed ends come from this calculation where they used this video as a reference, and as such the calculation has a major flaw since it calculates the speed from tiny bolts coming from a puny coil gun that's totally harmless for regular humans, so you can't really compare that to large lightning bolts that can completely paralyze or knockout superhumans.

 

[Floxy178]

I mean it's not an anti-feat, shockwaves are at least supersonic yeah, but nothing stops them being higher than that, even relativistic. So if anything we'll take those shockwave attack as lightning speed (which could've help us with manga version, but anyway), not other way around.

 

[Vzearr]

Sorry but you use the first frame and the last frame to calculate the distance the lightning moved when the lightning is not touching the pov, making the number just that, a number. Let's also not forget she moved back so is the calc really all that solid?

 

[NikHelton]

I mean it's not an anti-feat, shockwaves are at least supersonic yeah, but nothing stops them being higher than that, even relativistic. So if anything we'll take those shockwave attack as lightning speed (which could've help us with manga version, but anyway), not other way around.

Sorry but you use the first frame and the last frame to calculate the distance the lightning moved when the lightning is not touching the pov, making the number just that, a number. Let's also not forget she moved back so is the calc really all that solid?

Since when have we been leaning toward high-end without compelling evidence?
The proof of lightning's speed is the properties of electricity and the fact that in the anime it fell from above. It's much more logical and safer to assume that lightning is electricity and travels close to the speed of sound, which corresponds to the speed of electricity, than to assume that the shock wave is a thousand times faster than sound.

 

[Epyriel]

Sorry but you use the first frame and the last frame to calculate the distance the lightning moved when the lightning is not touching the pov, making the number just that, a number. Let's also not forget she moved back so is the calc really all that solid?

Huh? The entire sequence is a following shot right behind the lead lightning bolt. None of the frames show a variable distance from POV. And her jump is straight up.

 

[Epyriel]

Since when have we been leaning toward high-end without compelling evidence?
The proof of lightning's speed is the properties of electricity and the fact that in the anime it fell from above. It's much more logical and safer to assume that lightning is electricity and travels close to the speed of sound, which corresponds to the speed of electricity, than to assume that the shock wave is a thousand times faster than sound.

Seriously, get your own thread if you wish to contest this and stop clogging up a calc swap thread. This is an already accepted mattered and both calcs operate on that same accepted assumption.

 

[Floxy178]

Since when have we been leaning toward high-end without compelling evidence?
The proof of lightning's speed is the properties of electricity and the fact that in the anime it fell from above. It's much more logical and safer to assume that lightning is electricity and travels close to the speed of sound, which corresponds to the speed of electricity, than to assume that the shock wave is a thousand times faster than sound.

That's not how it works? If you don't have proof for that shockwave moves exactly at speed of sound, these cases aren't equally likely. We know lightning speed, we know shockwave's speed is >= mach 1. They don't contradict each other, therefore we simply don't have reason to deny lightning speed.

If you had proof for shockwave's speed, that'd be a different situation, and we'd choose low end over high end.