My Hero Academia: FW Arc Possible Upgrades

[TheRustyOne]

Spoiler: Rejected Scaling

In My Hero Academia Chapter 422 and Season 8 Episode 8, there is a moment that I missed for some character scaling.

All For One launches an attack at Izuku, intending to crush him.

Kirishima, Mina, and Fat Gum work together to stop the attack and protect Izuku by holding it down. This is very clear scaling.

The entire point of this final moment in the war is that everyone is protecting Izuku and opening up a path for him, since he's the only one who can inflict real damage on All For One. The entire narrative breaks if you assume All For One is not strong enough to hurt Izuku, which means everything everyone is doing was pointless.

The heroes couldn't hold back All For One's attack by themselves. They needed to work together to even deal with a single attack. The point shows the power of teamwork. One person shouldn't hold the world up by themselves. Making it so that no one was actually helping and was just putting themselves in danger for no reason would be ignoring the message in the final battle.

No single person scales fully to Izuku at that point, excluding maybe Endeavor and Shoto, as All For One avoided their attacks, but that's irrelevant.

This means Kirishima with Hardening, Mina with Acid, and Fat Gum should be scaling to three times below Izuku's rating.

18.65/3 = 6.21 Teratons of TNT (Small Country level+)

Fat Gum's durability should upscale to baseline 6-B, which is 7 Teratons of TNT, as he's way more durable with fat than without. The difference is only 1.12x.

They should also scale to three times below All For One's Lifting Strength for continuing to hold and push this attack back.

165963555342544/3 = 55.32 Trillion Metric Tons (Class P)

They should also get Relativistic+ (0.77c) reactions and combat speed as well. All For One can still pressure other Relativistic+ heroes, like Burnin.

All For One also avoided a Flashfire Fist attack from Endeavor and Shoto as well.

They aren't the only ones. Toru Hagakure, Invisible Girl, should also get Relativistic+ reactions and combat speed for blocking All For One's Omni-Factor attack.

The manga is a bit iffy on where she was, but the anime makes it clear she intercepted the beam after it was fired and was only a few meters away from Izuku.

Toru should also get Limited Attack Reflection, as she can reflect light-based attacks at her opponent.

Characters Sandbox.

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What do you all think? Is this possible, or am I reaching?

Agree: Mazdoesstuff, Eseseso, Anonymous Learner, Therefir, (4)

Disagree: Damage3245, BiggestOpp, (2)

Neutral: Machmatej, (1)

You don't need to read the above. I'm leaving it there to avoid causing confusion for anyone who reads this thread.

All For One should be stronger than Quirkless Izuku, since he was about to kill him here with an attack. He wasn't even using his Omni-Factor Unleash.

Izuku scales to 3.63 Megatons of TNT because of this CRT. This feat occurred after Izuku lost his arms, and he was rewound to before he lost them. Izuku lost his arms in the vestige world before All For One took over, but Izuku didn't realize it affected him physically until later. The explosion happened when AFO kicked him out.

There's no doubt that Quirkless Izuku is this durable.

Kirishima, Mina, and Fat Gum work together to stop an attack from All For One to protect Izuku.

All For One was using his Omni-Factor Unleash here, which should be comparable to what he was about to kill Izuku with.

This means Kirishima with Hardening, Mina with Acid, and Fat Gum should likely scale three times below Base Izuku's durability.

3.63/3 = 1.21 Megatons of TNT (Small City level)

Their Speed and Lifting Strength remain unchanged.

Toru should also get Limited Attack Reflection, as she can reflect light-based attacks at her opponent.

Her AP should vary depending on the strength of the laser she reflects.

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Agree: Damage3245 (Likely rating), Raiden38 (Likely rating), BiggestOpp, Mazdoesstuff, Vietthai96 (Likely rating), Apex_Predator_GX, Apex_Predator_GX, GunshyFever, Dalesean027, (9)

Disagree: (0)

Neutral: (0)

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Seems straightforward so I agree

Kirishima should be listed as:

High Hypersonic (Should be faster than before) with Relativistic+ reactions and combat speed (Held off an attack from All For One alongside Pinky and Fat Gum)

 

[Machmatej]

i don't know how i feel about the sudden power creep where all of 1-A can scale to top tier speed feats. but this kind of makes sense, so ig i'll be neutral for now

Seems straightforward so I agree

Kirishima should be listed as:

that implies his travel speed is high hypersonic tho. rel+ could be noted to only scale to his reaction speed, and not combat speed as well.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Snip

That's not his travel speed. That's his reaction and combat speed.

The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed.

Also, the feats justifying Kirishima's HHS rating are for his reactions and combat speed. Those aren't running speed.

 

[Eseseso]

I think this should be fine given the context, though I do feel like everyone currently downscaling from the 18 teraton value (like 45% Deku and Dragon Rykyku) should downscale to baseline 6-B (7 teratons) as well.

 

[TheRustyOne]

That can be dealt with in another thread if you want. That's not the purpose of this one.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Also, the feats justifying Kirishima's HHS rating are for his reactions and combat speed. Those aren't running speed.

He literally outran Gigantomachia’s arm though?

Though I’ll save my qualms for the travel speed thread

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Agreewit everything here

 

[Eseseso]

That can be dealt with in another thread if you want. That's not the purpose of this one.

Btw shouldn't Red Riot Unbreakable upscale to Baseline 6-B in AP as well? He was established in earlier arcs to be vastly stronger than his standard hardening.

 

[Therefir]

This makes sense, I agree with the changes.

Btw shouldn't Red Riot Unbreakable upscale to Baseline 6-B in AP as well? He was established in earlier arcs to be vastly stronger than his standard hardening.

Any scans for this? I know he has better feats with Red Riot Unbreakable, but I don't recall any specific statement about his strength. I'm neutral on upscaling him to 6-B.

@TheRustyOne Is it okay if I give AFO his Shigaraki-possessed key back, but scale him to 6-B Deku? Even if it isn't long-lasting, the key is an important story point and, more importantly, it has quantifiable feats.

I think this should be fine given the context, though I do feel like everyone currently downscaling from the 18 teraton value (like 45% Deku and Dragon Rykyku) should downscale to baseline 6-B (7 teratons) as well.

I disagree. The gap is too large for the scaling to be viable (over 2x). Plus, its more accurate to keep the downscaling note instead of arbitrarily treating them as baseline 6-B.

 

[TheRustyOne]

@TheRustyOne Is it okay if I give AFO his Shigaraki-possessed key back, but scale him to 6-B Deku? Even if it isn't long-lasting, the key is an important story point and, more importantly, it has quantifiable feats.

Considering we might be using it for scaling, it should be added if this thread is approved. It would be very confusing otherwise.

 

[Eseseso]

This makes sense, I agree with the changes.

Any scans for this? I know he has better feats with Red Riot Unbreakable, but I don't recall any specific statement about his strength. I'm neutral on upscaling him to 6-B.

In both his fights against that one amped stabby terrorist and Rappa, his RR Unbreakable proved to be much stronger than his standard Hardening

I disagree. The gap is too large for the scaling to be viable (over 2x). Plus, its more accurate to keep the downscaling note instead of arbitrarily treating them as baseline 6-B.

It's what we used to do for One Piece

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not sure about this; need to think about it a bit more.

The Toru Hagakure stuff is fine.

 

[Therefir]

It's what we used to do for One Piece

Yeah but our current One Piece scaling is widely seen as a joke everywhere outside this site even by some of the most biased fans.

 

[Eseseso]

That can be dealt with in another thread if you want. That's not the purpose of this one.

Yeah but our current One Piece scaling is widely seen as a joke everywhere outside this site even by some of the most biased fans.

So do you guys now agree with upscaling Red Riot to baseline 6-B?

In both his fights against that one amped stabby terrorist and Rappa, his RR Unbreakable proved to be much stronger than his standard Hardening

 

[Saqphire]

I agree

 

[Raiden38]

In My Hero Academia Chapter 422 and Season 8 Episode 8, there is a moment that I missed for some character scaling.

All For One launches an attack at Izuku, intending to crush him.

Kirishima, Mina, and Fat Gum work together to stop the attack and protect Izuku by holding it down. This is very clear scaling.

The entire point of this final moment in the war is that everyone is protecting Izuku and opening up a path for him, since he's the only one who can inflict real damage on All For One. The entire narrative breaks if you assume All For One is not strong enough to hurt Izuku, which means everything everyone is doing was pointless.

The heroes couldn't hold back All For One's attack by themselves. They needed to work together to even deal with a single attack. The point shows the power of teamwork. One person shouldn't hold the world up by themselves. Making it so that no one was actually helping and was just putting themselves in danger for no reason would be ignoring the message in the final battle.

No single person scales fully to Izuku at that point, excluding maybe Endeavor and Shoto, as All For One avoided their attacks, but that's irrelevant.

This means Kirishima with Hardening, Mina with Acid, and Fat Gum should be scaling to three times below Izuku's rating.

18.65/3 = 6.21 Teratons of TNT (Small Country level+)

Fat Gum's durability should upscale to baseline 6-B, which is 7 Teratons of TNT, as he's way more durable with fat than without. The difference is only 1.12x.

They should also scale to three times below All For One's Lifting Strength for continuing to hold and push this attack back.

165963555342544/3 = 55.32 Trillion Metric Tons (Class P)

They should also get Relativistic+ (0.77c) reactions and combat speed as well. All For One can still pressure other Relativistic+ heroes, like Burnin.

All For One also avoided a Flashfire Fist attack from Endeavor and Shoto as well.

They aren't the only ones. Toru Hagakure, Invisible Girl, should also get Relativistic+ reactions and combat speed for blocking All For One's Omni-Factor attack.

The manga is a bit iffy on where she was, but the anime makes it clear she intercepted the beam after it was fired and was only a few meters away from Izuku.

Toru should also get Limited Attack Reflection, as she can reflect light-based attacks at her opponent.

Characters Sandbox.

Verse Page Sandbox.

What do you all think? Is this possible, or am I reaching?

Agree: Mazdoesstuff, Eseseso, Anonymous Learner, Therefir, (4)

Disagree: (0)

Neutral: Machmatej, (1)

on this line however we should scale taking a similar question from another verse always on the site Pri pri Prisoner should scale to Melzalgard because he manages to stop him and hold him still despite being much much weaker than the monster... or metal bat who manages to stop the charge of Elder Centipede but the character is technically not as strong as the monster on the site so for now for these examples I disagree with the AP upgrade I don't think it is enough to upgrade this 3 characters but I quite agree with giving him relativistic reactions at the moment to the characters...

 

[TheRustyOne]

on this line however we should scale taking a similar question from another verse always on the site Pri pri Prisoner should scale to Melzalgard because he manages to stop him and hold him still despite being much much weaker than the monster... or metal bat who manages to stop the charge of Elder Centipede but the character is technically not as strong as the monster on the site so for now for these examples I disagree with the AP upgrade I don't think it is enough to upgrade this 3 characters but I quite agree with giving him relativistic reactions at the moment to the characters...

I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to disregard Pri Pri Prisoner and Metal Bat's scaling. A clear contradiction, or something.

I don't know OPM that well, so I suggest you don't bring up other verses.

Can you provide contradictory scaling for these characters in the Final War Arc? Disregarding a feat based on personal feelings and nothing else is a fallacy.

If you have found something concerning or problematic about the scaling, it's best to reveal it instead of speaking cryptically like this.

 

[Reyne]

It happens. That much is true. Nothing substantiates growth to such a degree, but it happened. I'd have reckoned even this site would end up agreeing in it being an outlier for the sake of plot, but it is what it is.

 

[Eseseso]

I'm sure there are legitimate reasons to disregard Pri Pri Prisoner and Metal Bat's scaling. A clear contradiction, or something.

I don't know OPM that well, so I suggest you don't bring up other verses.

Can you provide contradictory scaling for these characters in the Final War Arc? Disregarding a feat based on personal feelings and nothing else is a fallacy.

If you have found something concerning or problematic about the scaling, it's best to reveal it instead of speaking cryptically like this.

So do you guys now agree with upscaling Red Riot to baseline 6-B?

 

[Therefir]

So do you guys now agree with upscaling Red Riot to baseline 6-B?

I think it's fine, it's very close to Baseline 6-B.

 

[Eseseso]

I think it's fine, it's very close to Baseline 6-B.

Yeah, like OP said it's only like 1.12x and we've seen that RRU repeatedly matches people that overpower his Hardening.

Rappa send Hardening flying with a single punch, yet RRU is >= Rappa's punches in AP, and he went from being overpowered by that stabby terrorist to shattering his best attack (all his blades combined into a single drill) with a punch.

 

[Damage3245]

The entire point of this final moment in the war is that everyone is protecting Izuku and opening up a path for him, since he's the only one who can inflict real damage on All For One. The entire narrative breaks if you assume All For One is not strong enough to hurt Izuku, which means everything everyone is doing was pointless.

I've been thinking about it, and I don't think the "narrative" reasoning is necessarily enough for this. Firstly, an attack from All For One doesn't necessarily have to be on par with Izuku for his allies to want to save him from an attack. The point of the scene is that Izuku is conserving strength and trying to get close to All For One to land to final blow; which is also why we have characters literally carrying Izuku closer to the action. It's not because they're faster or they're more agile then him as they say, but because they're helping him conserve strength. If Izuku gets hit by a giant tentacle and sent flying away from All For One, then he's not getting closer to accomplish his goal, and expending further strength to block or destroy the attack himself wastes his stamina.

Secondly, there is an issue in that Deku's 18.65 Teratons punches were capable of destroying All For One's body. In the two cases that we witness of him hitting All For One, he was able to drive back All For One's entire body and caused him to fracture with the first hit, and the second hit completely shattered All For One's body.

For the proposal to be correct, All For One is unleashing 18.65 Teratons strikes with countless tentacles / limbs and having no issues enduring that which runs contrary to him being practically one-shot by an 18.65 Teratons attack.

All For One reiterates that the numerous heroes in front of him are a feeble threat, and the other heroes acknowledge it takes dozens of them to deal with one of his moves. All For One's statement wouldn't make sense if there were numerous heroes on the battlefield that were just a third as strong as he was, and it wouldn't make a lot sense for the sole chance of victory to be riding on Izuku delivering a punch to him if there were multiple characters pretty close in strength to him. All of these other students also block attacks meant for Deku, yet they make it clear that they're nowhere close to Deku in strength.

 

[TheRustyOne]

For the proposal to be correct, All For One is unleashing 18.65 Teratons strikes with countless tentacles / limbs and having no issues enduring that which runs contrary to him being practically one-shot by an 18.65 Teratons attack.

That's not what happened. I think you misunderstood something.

He was destroyed by OFA's stockpiled power, which is a little bit stronger than Prime All Might. We're shown a flashback to what All Might told Izuku. Tomura's body cannot handle OFA + AFO anymore. The surgery was designed to improve his hardware, so he can handle the software.

Izuku's transferred ruined Tomura Shigaraki's body. Izuku's embers also resonated with the OFA inside of All For One.

AFO wasn't one shotted by 18.65 Teratons.

 

[Damage3245]

He was destroyed by OFA's stockpiled power, which is a little bit stronger than Prime All Might. We're shown a flashback to what All Might told Izuku. Tomura's body cannot handle OFA + AFO anymore. The surgery was designed to improve his hardware, so he can handle the software.

OFA's stockpiled power did cripple his body, yes, but Izuku's punch is still what sent him flying backwards and started shattering him when combo attacks from multiple other heroes on the battlefield didn't do squat against him.

 

[TheRustyOne]

OFA's stockpiled power did cripple his body, yes, but Izuku's punch is still what sent him flying backwards and started shattering him when combo attacks from multiple other heroes on the battlefield didn't do squat against him.

No, the stockpiled power is what shattered his body. Did you notice All Might's flashback? That's the reason why it was shown. An unprepared body cannot inherit it. Their limbs would shoot off if they tried. All of that stockpile energy was inside of him, and burst out when he resonated with the Embers inside Izuku.

I'm sorry I didn't explain that properly. Izuku's attack, being 18.65 Teratons, isn't what shattered him; the manga showed what caused that damage. Izuku was the spark.

This also isn't some super heavily planned assault. Fat Gum, Mina, and Kirishima couldn't beat AFO. They're 3x inferior and cannot do anything. They could cause skin damage with an attack, but they wouldn't do anything superficial. Also, the value doesn't apply to every single person there.

It's extremely unreasonable to use them to fight AFO, when they cannot one-shot him. Izuku is their best chance. They never attacked AFO; they know it's not something they can deal with by themselves. It's far more efficient and smart to help Izuku than to waste time.

However, that might be irrelevant to your actual argument.

Let me ask you just to make this clear, are you suggesting there is nothing that places All For One at 18.65 Teratons?

Izuku cannot be injured by AFO, but he can launch him back, which is the issue?

 

[Apotheosis69]

Shouldn't Mina's Acid just be hax? And not actual physical stats?

 

[Damage3245]

Let me ask you just to make this clear, are you suggesting there is nothing that places All For One at 18.65 Teratons?

Izuku cannot be injured by AFO, but he can launch him back, which is the issue?

I'm not saying that AFO can't be 18.65 Teratons through some way, but I'm just saying that not every individual attack he's unleashing is necessarily as strong as this 18.65 Teratons punch from Izuku.

Izuku's allies would move to intercept an attack from AFO for Izuku regardless of whether or not it would hurt Izuku. They're not going to look at an attack and think "Well, that probably won't hurt Izuku so it's fine to let that giant tentacle smack him".

I wouldn't say that Ibara or Ojiro are as strong as Izuku is because they destoyed an attack that was meant to hit Izuku.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Shouldn't Mina's Acid just be hax? And not actual physical stats?

Acid just melts. She physically pushed the tentacle alongside them. That's no hax.

Snip

That's not what I meant. My bad, I speak in absolutes by default. I'm sorry for confusing you, but thank you for confirming.

We have no idea what that moment was. I saw it as Izuku jumping in to defend them, that's why he's about to punch, but they showed they were alright, and he doesn't have to protect them. I'm only considering attacks aimed at Izuku as being 18.65 Teratons. After all, even characters like Burnin cannot deal with AFO's attacks by themself. And he wasn't even attacking Izuku at that time.

I agree that not all attacks are 18.65 Teratons, but I disagree that AFO wouldn't throw an attack as powerful as he could in that moment when directly aimed at Izuku.

 

[Eseseso]

Shouldn't Mina's Acid just be hax? And not actual physical stats?

I mean, at the very least it's durability. Like how she used an acid wall to block Gigantomachia's attack.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Bump.

 

[Eseseso]

Bump.

Since Therefir agreed with RRU upscaling from standard Hardening to baseline 6-B, do you now agree? It's only a 1.12x gap and RRU is consistently shown as notably stronger than standard hardening.

 

[TheRustyOne]

No.

It doesn't matter, my opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Therefir]

Since Therefir agreed with RRU upscaling from standard Hardening to baseline 6-B, do you now agree? It's only a 1.12x gap and RRU is consistently shown as notably stronger than standard hardening.

Mine doesn't matter as well btw, you need Thread Mods to agree with it.

 

[Eseseso]

Mine doesn't matter as well btw, you need Thread Mods to agree with it.

No.

It doesn't matter, my opinion is irrelevant.

Since no staff seem to have agreed yet, you can just change it in the OP until then

 

[Therefir]

@Dalesean027 @LordTracer @Godernet @Random-Helper323 Apologize for bothering you, could you take a look a these changes? (And Eseseso's suggestion of making Kirishima's Red Riot Unbreakable 6-B instead of just higher).

 

[Damage3245]

To clarify my voting stance, I am currently in disagreement with the OP (except for the Toru additions). I'll be able to resume discussing it further in the next day or two if need be.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

@Dalesean027 @LordTracer @Godernet Apologize for bothering you, could you take a look a these changes? (And Eseseso's suggestion of making Kirishima's Red Riot Unbreakable 6-B instead of just higher).

@Random-Helper323 reads the manga btw

 

[Random-Helper323]

@Random-Helper323 reads the manga btw

Not for a long while, and I zoned out after being disappointed with the ending.

I do think it's fair to at least say AFO was attacking with his own level of AP. He was way weaker than Izuku though, so I don't know how it applies to Izuku, unless by AFO you mean Shigaraki.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Not for a long while, and I zoned out after being disappointed with the ending.

I do think it's fair to at least say AFO was attacking with his own level of AP. He was way weaker than Izuku though, so I don't know how it applies to Izuku, unless by AFO you mean Shigaraki.

AFO possessed Shigaraki’s body during the final battle