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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

This is why people complain about why Shigaraki during the War arc didn't just instantly stomp all the characters he was fighting. Not because he should have, but because these people's reading comprehension is so incredibly low that they don't understand why he isn't doing so.
 
Metalballrun said:
I'm simply recounting events that happened in the manga. Cold, hard facts don't change even when you cry nonsense with no viable counterargument whatsoever.

What's truly delusional is trying to deny canonical manga information.
Click to expand...
But your interpretation of the events is wrong.
The only "High-end", or strong Nomu we've seen contend with All Might was built to specifically counter him, with shock absorption.
Mirko being able to damage different High-ends, non of which had shock absorption doesn't make her "All Might tier".
It's established throughout the entire series that AM and AFO in their prime states were truly gods amongst men.

And finally, there's not a single piece of information or even small hints that OFA has some sort of wind manipulation, which means it's their power creating those winds.
 
Onelixy said:
But your interpretation of the events is wrong.
The only "High-end", or strong Nomu we've seen contend with All Might was built to specifically counter him, with shock absorption.
Mirko being able to damage different High-ends, non of which had shock absorption doesn't make her "All Might tier".
It's established throughout the entire series that AM and AFO in their prime states were truly gods amongst men.
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No "interpretations" here.

The USJ Nomu wasn't even classified as a High End.
High Ends are specifically described to be stronger than every other Nomu.
The USJ Nomu was more durable due to shock absorption, but the fact that the High Ends scale to the USJ Nomu in statistics except for the Shock Absorption is not only stated but is demonstrated by feats as well. And those who damaged these High Ends scale to them, obviously.

Literally nobody in this entire thread ever disputed that Prime All Might and AFO were the god tiers of the verse. Why even bring it up?
 
Metalballrun said:
No "interpretations" here.

The USJ Nomu wasn't even classified as a High End.
High Ends are specifically described to be stronger than every other Nomu.
The USJ Nomu was more durable due to shock absorption, but the fact that the High Ends scale to the USJ Nomu in statistics except for the Shock Absorption is not only stated but is demonstrated by feats as well. And those who damaged these High Ends scale to them, obviously.
Click to expand...
No "interpretation".
Goes on to interpret that High-ends should scale to the USJ durability, whom All Might couldn't deal real damage to due to a specific quirk designed to counter him.

Therefore, this is not "obvious". You are going out on a limb giving your interpretation. The USJ-Nomu possessed something that negated physical damage. There's no reason or evidence that other Nomus would fare as well against physical attacks without that quirk.
 
Onelixy said:
Mirko isn't remotely close to All Might. We're discussing real in-verse information and depictions. Not our own scaling-chains.
I understand what you're arguing, but it lacks any real or compelling substantiation.
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….?
Nomu is directly stated equal to All Might, HEN are stated to surpass the Nomu, Mirko can one shot the HEN…? All of this is shown and stated in series.
 
Onelixy said:
Goes on to interpret that High-ends should scale to the USJ
Click to expand...
Why do you keep insisting it's an interpretation when it's explicitly shown in the manga?
You're also just ignoring everything else I've said with regards to this topic. Why?

These are serious questions. Or else this is pretty much textbook stonewalling.
 
Metalballrun said:
Why do you keep insisting it's an interpretation when it's explicitly shown in the manga?
You're also just ignoring everything else I've said with regards to this topic. Why?
Click to expand...
Let's simplify this.

The USJ Nomu was specifically designed to deal with All Might.
It could handle several hundred of All Might's punches in his state at the time and would've handled single-digit punches in his prime.
This is due to his quirk, a quirk that absorbs impact. That's why he was incredibly durable against physical attacks, or rather, "shock".

There's no reason or evidence that nomu's (even superior ones) without this specific quirk have similar durability to physical attacks.
You're also just ignoring everything else I've said with regards to this topic. Why?

These are serious questions. Or else this is pretty much textbook stonewalling.
Click to expand...
If there is something specific you think I avoided or didn't answer that I should've, just restate and I'll address it.
 
Onelixy said:
Let's simplify this.

The USJ Nomu was specifically designed to deal with All Might.
It could handle several hundred of All Might's punches in his state at the time and would've handled single-digit punches in his prime.
This is due to his quirk, a quirk that absorbs impact. That's why he was incredibly durable against physical attacks, or rather, "shock".

There's no reason or evidence that nomu's (even superior ones) without this specific quirk have similar durability to physical attacks.

If there is something specific you think I avoided or didn't answer that I should've, just restate and I'll address it.
Click to expand...
Nobody is scaling off their durability though, their attack potency>the nomu which in return should scale to their durability. That’s just basic knowledge.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
Nobody is scaling off their durability though, their attack potency>the nomu which in return should scale to their durability. That’s just basic knowledge.
Click to expand...
We are and have been talking about their durability.
The current point is that Mirko damaged a Nomu who is stated to be superior to the USJ.

My argument is that it's not the case in durability, as the USJ possessed a unique quirk absorbing All Might's physical attacks, and is therefore not comparable to Mirko's physical attacks against Nomus without this quirk. The HEN could be superior in every other regard, as in more quirks, intelligence, and so on. But for the scaling chain we're discussing to make sense, durability is key.
 
Onelixy said:
We are and have been talking about their durability.
The current point is that Mirko damaged a Nomu who is stated to be superior to the USJ.

My argument is that it's not the case in durability, as the USJ possessed a unique quirk absorbing All Might's physical attacks, and is therefore not comparable to Mirko's physical attacks against Nomus without this quirk. The HEN could be superior in every other regard, as in more quirks, intelligence, and so on. But for the scaling chain we're discussing to make sense, durability is key.
Click to expand...
No we haven’t, we been talking about their general strength.
Mirko damaged a Nomu who is superior than the USJ Nomu. For them to attack without blowing their arms apart their body needs similar durability, i.e. newtons laws.
Hell even Horikoshi emphasizes this idea constantly, if you’re not strong enough to endure your own quirk you damage yourself.
Didn’t Dabi arm just explode?
 
TimmyTurnero said:
No we haven’t, we been talking about their general strength.
Mirko damaged a Nomu who is superior than the USJ Nomu. For them to attack without blowing their arms apart their body needs similar durability, i.e. newtons laws.
Hell even Horikoshi emphasizes this idea constantly, if you’re not strong enough to endure your own quirk you damage yourself.
Didn’t Dabi arm just explode?
Click to expand...
My first comment was that Mirko wasn't close to All Might.
Someone responded "High Ends are the strongest Nomus and Mirko is capable of harming them. That proves she's All Might level".

But All Might has never fought a High End. He fought the USJ Nomu, who had a unique circumstance making him extra durable against All Might (even Shoto at the time could severely damage the USJ). No other Nomu that we've been introduced to has this specific quirk, and therefore there's no connection between them.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
Nobody is scaling off their durability though, their attack potency>the nomu which in return should scale to their durability. That’s just basic knowledge.
Click to expand...
Exactly this.


No one else ever brought up Shock Absorption because it wasn't even a factor in the scaling. Even the wiki profiles denote the Shock Absorption separately. It's a strawman.

The USJ Nomu was stated to be as powerful as All Might, and has been shown harming All Might. Doctor Garaki himself, the creator of the Nomus, scales the High Ends to the Nomu. High Ends having comparable durability to their own attack power is common sense. Mirko has both harmed and has taken attacks from High Ends.

As if that's not enough, we've seen Near High Ends take as much damage as Shigaraki did side-by-side during the Star and Stripe fight. That's just among other feats demonstrating what the High Ends are capable of.

Not even gonna elaborate on Mirko's other feats.

It's bizarre how this is even a discussion.
 
Onelixy said:
My first comment was that Mirko wasn't close to All Might.
Someone responded "High Ends are the strongest Nomus and Mirko is capable of harming them. That proves she's All Might level".

But All Might has never fought a High End. He fought the USJ Nomu, who had a unique circumstance making him extra durable against All Might (even Shoto at the time could severely damage the USJ). No other Nomu that we've been introduced to has this specific quirk, and therefore there's no connection between them.
Click to expand...
Did you even read my reply…?
 
Metalballrun said:
The USJ Nomu was stated to be as powerful as All Might, and has been shown harming All Might. Doctor Garaki himself, the creator of the Nomus, scales the High Ends to the Nomu. High Ends having comparable durability to their own attack power is common sense. Mirko has both harmed and has taken attacks from High Ends.
Click to expand...
To be clear, the same panel that talks about the different Nomus calls the upper-tier (USJ) at least as strong as 10 average people. But both it and All Might are moving faster than anyone can see, including Shigaraki, and are creating devastating effects with their attacks. Featwise, they're faster and physically stronger than any other Nomu. However, he's limited to a few quirks relevant to defeating All Might.

As if that's not enough, we've seen Near High Ends take as much damage as Shigaraki did side-by-side during the Star and Stripe fight. That's just among other feats demonstrating what the High Ends are capable of.
Click to expand...
Shigaraki was stated to be the perfect Nomu and therefore should be superior to other Nomu. (He is treated as such both here and on the wiki).
However, he specifically stated that if he didn't use the Nomu as bait to take the missiles, he would've died. He can't scale to that Nomu, while the Nomu is taking something that would've killed him. Meaning it's pis, and one of the reasons why I think your scaling chains are off.
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Do people seriously not think Mirko is on par with Weakened AM?
Click to expand...
And I think this is evidence of what happens with communities like this. It's why you folks were shocked that Iida was transonic, while I thought it made sense.

Let me ask you this. How do you think Mirko would do if she replaced All Might against the USJ Nomu? :)
 
Onelixy said:
To be clear, the same panel that talks about the different Nomus calls the upper-tier (USJ) at least as strong as 10 average people. But both it and All Might are moving faster than anyone can see, including Shigaraki, and are creating devastating effects with their attacks. Featwise, they're faster and physically stronger than any other Nomu. However, he's limited to a few quirks relevant to defeating All Might
Click to expand...
There’s different tiers of the upper tier, he said “those”, plural, in it are “at least” (meaning at the bare minimum) 10x your average person. People the weakest upper tier is 10x the average person.
This doesn’t reference any of the higher variants or even the strongest, the USJ Nomu who is already stated on par with All Might. What point are you trying to make?
 
TimmyTurnero said:
She can one shot and rip apart people stronger than All Might, so she’d do the same to him in a less amount of time.
Click to expand...
And there we have my point, ladies and gentlemen!

Through this "scaling chain", people now think Mirko would rip apart All Might in no time. The same All Might from USJ, and Kamino.
Too bad Mirko didn't just take out AFO herself, right?
 
Onelixy said:
Nice contribution, again (from both you and Timmy). But yeah, English is my second language.
If he thinks Mirko is on par with weakened All Might, I wonder what he thinks about them in a similar scenario.
Click to expand...
She would destroy USJ Nomu, the same way she did against the High Ends, who are stronger than the USJ Nomu.
 
Onelixy said:
To be clear, the same panel that talks about the different Nomus calls the upper-tier (USJ) at least as strong as 10 average people. But both it and All Might are moving faster than anyone can see, including Shigaraki, and are creating devastating effects with their attacks. Featwise, they're faster and physically stronger than any other Nomu. However, he's limited to a few quirks relevant to defeating All Might.
Click to expand...
  1. It says there itself. "At least as strong as 10 average people." It's talking about the bare minimum level of an Upper Tier Nomu. What's your point?
  2. Even a low-tier Nomu is relatively unharmed after crashing into a building, which is far above the capability of a hypothetical creature that has the strength of 10 people combined. So this is pretty much flowery language. Not that it is relevant anyways.
  3. The USJ Nomu belongs to the Upper-Tier. Not only that, but it's literally shown in the panel as a point of comparison. If that's not obvious, I don't know what is.
Onelixy said:
Shigaraki was stated to be the perfect Nomu and therefore should be superior to other Nomu. (He is treated as such both here and on the wiki).
However, he specifically stated that if he didn't use the Nomu as bait to take the missiles, he would've died. He can't scale to that Nomu, while the Nomu is taking something that would've killed him.
Click to expand...
We're not even talking about the same feat.
 
Onelixy said:
Through this "scaling chain",
Click to expand...
You mean the one presented in the manga? Where it literally stated they’re All Might level and show Mirko tearing them apart?
16-1.png

Onelixy said:
people now think Mirko would rip apart All Might in no time. The same All Might from USJ, and Kamino.
Click to expand...
Yeah I honestly do.
Onelixy said:
Too bad Mirko didn't just take out AFO herself, right?
Click to expand...
Was she there at the time? I doubt it.
 
↑ I just want to be clear, do other people in this thread actually believe this? ↑
That if Mirko showed up at Kamino, she'd rip AFO apart?

Might have to reconsider where I spend my time, Jesus
 
Onelixy said:
↑ I just want to be clear, do other people in this thread actually believe this? ↑
That if Mirko showed up at Kamino, she'd rip AFO apart?

Might have to reconsider where I spend my time, Jesus
Click to expand...
Are u aware that Mirko literally ripped a HEN head’s off?
 
Onelixy said:
↑ I just want to be clear, do other people in this thread actually believe this? ↑
That if Mirko showed up at Kamino, she'd rip AFO apart?

Might have to reconsider where I spend my time, Jesus
Click to expand...
Let me ask you this, do you have ANY arguments/evidence to your point besides Headcanon?
 
Yeah even Hawks who is noted to have a lower attack power amongst the top heroes was a threat to All For One.
It's been repeatedly noted that All For One is more vulnerable because he doesn't have the same type of physical enhancement as Shigaraki. And the High Ends, which are again comparable to Shigaraki.

Like, heck do we even have to go as far as to show the performance of different characters against High Ends?
How Mirko and Endeavor have comparable performance against High Ends?
How Mirko is demonstrably stronger physically than Endeavor, based on comparing the damage they caused against High Ends?
And how Endeavor was able to take attacks from Shigaraki?

Like, Horikoshi mentioning numbers might be wack, but him potraying how characters fair against each other is as consistent as it gets.
You'd need to have the media literacy of a spoon to not understand this. It's neither deep nor complicated.
 
@Metalballrun So you also think Mirko would rip apart Kamino All Might and AFO?
At this point, this is what I'm curious about. If this is the consensus on the site, I'm clearly in the wrong place.
 
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