Naruto, Hinata and Toneri upgrades

[Stryker861]

Should be Relativley simple

Base eos naruto is able to physcally match rinnegan sasuke in a clash. Naruto also shows relative speed to that sasuke when they jump away from each other and can also percive the speed of his fireball from relatively close range. The anime isent treated as canon as far as i know but it also depicts the same instances and more for what its worth.
So im proposing Base EOS Naruto to become 5b sol- FTL and the people who scale to that below

"The last" Base Hinata for reacting to, blitzing and manhandling Toneri's "Head Puppet" who was able to easily react to, and keep up with an enraged "The Last Base Naruto" in combat and even outsped him at some point(this is whats on her profile)
"The last" Base Naruto, higher with BSM
"The last" Base Toneri, higher with TCM


Agree: @Kidkinsey @Tdjwo @Nierre @Deagonx @Arc7Kuroi @Damage3245

Nuetral: @LordGriffin1000

Disagree:

 

[Kidkinsey]

Looks good. Base naruto a steppa

 

[Tdjwo]

Agreed without even reading the content.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Base eos naruto is able to physcally match rinnegan sasuke in a clash.

What feats does Sasuke have of physically being 5-B? Because tmk Sasuke is only competing with Juubidara and higher tier characters with his Chidori, Susanoo, and other amped attacks.

Naruto also shows relative speed to that sasuke when they jump away from each other and can also percive the speed of his fireball from relatively close range.

Naruto seeing an attack that is in his face =/= a speed feat lmao. This is by no means an FTL speed feat for base Naruto. Furthermore, both of them being knocked away by their clash isn't a speed feat either, it just means their clash exerted pretty even forces on each other.

 

[Tdjwo]

What feats does Sasuke have of physically being 5-B? Because tmk Sasuke is only competing with Juubidara and higher tier characters with his Chidori, Susanoo, and other amped attacks.

Sasuke tanked a hit to his arm from Juubidara's limbo

Furthermore, both of them being knocked away by their clash isn't a speed feat either, it just means their clash exerted pretty even forces on each other.

Base Naruto reacted and even clashed with Sasuke who tried to blitz him if I remembered correctly.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Sasuke tanked a hit to his arm from Juubidara's limbo

Durability feat ^, I'm asking for his striking strength tho.

Base Naruto reacted and even clashed with Sasuke who tried to blitz him if I remembered correctly.

I don't recall that, I recall them both deciding to journey on over to the VotE, stare at each other, and then clash.

 

[Tdjwo]

Durability feat ^, I'm asking for his striking strength tho.

Naruto's clash with him didn't make Naruto's body shatter from any recoil so Naruto's striking strength=Sasuke's durability.

I don't recall that, I recall them both deciding to journey on over to the VotE, stare at each other, and then clash.

So you know they clashed right? Sasuke had to move from his position to clash with Naruto. He didn't just stand there.

 

[Stryker861]

What feats does Sasuke have of physically being 5-B? Because tmk Sasuke is only competing with Juubidara and higher tier characters with his Chidori, Susanoo, and other amped attacks.

I dont see why sasukes stats would not be relative in some compacity when they both recieved "half of hags power" sasuke scaling higher with ninjustu like every charecter in ther verse doesent mean his physcals arent up there

Naruto seeing an attack that is in his face =/= a speed feat lmao. This is by no means an FTL speed feat for base Naruto.

this is speccifaclly a perception speed feat

Furthermore, both of them being knocked away by their clash isn't a speed feat either, it just means their clash exerted pretty even forces on each other.

they dident knock each other back here, they clashed and moved away

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Naruto's clash with him didn't make Naruto's body shatter from any recoil so Naruto's striking strength=Sasuke's durability.

No, for Naruto's SS to be ~ Sasuke's durability he'd have to harm Sasuke physically. Sasuke tanking the strike with 0 indication of there being any damage means his durability > Nard's SS.

So you know they clashed right? Sasuke had to move from his position to clash with Naruto. He didn't just stand there.

Yeah okay and? He wasn't trying to blitz Naruto like you said lmao.

I dont see why sasukes stats would not be relative in some compacity when they both recieved "half of hags power" sasuke scaling higher with ninjustu like every charecter in ther verse doesent mean his physcals arent up there

That's nothing but incredulity. Naruto and Sasuke got very different power ups from Hag, there's no reason Naruto's feats are Sasuke's feats.

this is speccifaclly a perception speed feat

Alrighty, was a bit confused why you brought it up for his movement speed then.

they dident knock each other back here, they clashed and moved away

That doesn't mean they are moving with equal speed. That just means they both fell down back to ground after clashing. Nothing about them recoiling like that indicates they inherently matched each other's top speed.

 

[Tdjwo]

No, for Naruto's SS to be ~ Sasuke's durability he'd have to harm Sasuke physically. Sasuke tanking the strike with 0 indication of there being any damage means his durability > Nard's SS.

Not really. If I punched a concrete wall with all my might, I would shatter my fist from the recoil and the wall wouldn't have to move an inch to make me cry like a b**ch. Naruto equally clashing with Sasuke's 5B dura arm without any recoil makes him 5B.

Yeah okay and? He wasn't trying to blitz Naruto like you said lmao.

Prove that. This man jumped so fast in just 1 panel over to Naruto's side. And Naruto reacted to him.

 

[Stryker861]

That's nothing but incredulity. Naruto and Sasuke got very different power ups from Hag, there's no reason Naruto's feats are Sasuke's feats.

they both got six paths chakra from hagromo that can be used to amp them physcally and higher with ninjustu. theres quite litterally no reason to assume that sasukes physcals werent relatvive to the other six paths users like madara or nard. it amped all his stats and we dont need the series to hold our hand for us to know that "half" hags power = 5b and higher with ninjustu

That doesn't mean they are moving with equal speed. That just means they both fell down back to ground after clashing. Nothing about them recoiling like that indicates they inherently matched each other's top speed.

they arent falling goober they ran up to each other at similar speed and clashed, then jumped away from each other

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Sakura punched the Limbo clone without her body shattering with recoil lol

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

they both got six paths chakra from hagromo

Sasuke's six paths senjutsu doesnt passively run through him, which is why he has to add it after the fact

heres quite litterally no reason to assume that sasukes physcals werent relatvive to the other six paths users like madara or nard.

he has worse feats.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Not really. If I punched a concrete wall with all my might, I would shatter my fist from the recoil and the wall wouldn't have to move an inch to make me cry like a b**ch. Naruto punching Sasuke's 5B dura arm without any recoil makes him 5B.

You don't know how durability works huh... we do not scale characters to other characters durability for not harming them. I'm not gonna argue about that with you, I'll just let staff tell you what I already did. By your logic, Early ToP God Goku should scale to Jiren, because his fist didn't break when Jiren blocked it with his finger, just no. Reread our durability page to learn how to scale people to durability.

Prove that. This man jumped so fast in just 1 panel over to Naruto's side. And Naruto reacted to him.

I don't have to prove the negative lmao. You have to prove the positive, the onus is on you since y'all made the claim that Naruto kept up with Sasuke's blitz. Which isn't proveably true.

they both got six paths chakra from hagromo that can be used to amp them physcally and higher with ninjustu. theres quite litterally no reason to assume that sasukes physcals werent relatvive to the other six paths users like madara or nard. it amped all his stats and we dont need the series to hold our hand for us to know that "half" hags power = 5b and higher with ninjustu

I'm not contesting that they got amped. But none of what you said proves that Sasuke's physicals = Nard's physicals. I'm asking for evidence that Sasuke has striking strength feats at the 5-B level. Either show me that or just say he doesn't.

they arent falling goober they ran up to each other at similar speed and clashed, then jumped away from each other

Sasuke seems to jump back to the spiky hair of the statue in the same time Naruto just skids back on the head of the statue. Implying Sasuke jumped back a further distance than Naruto anyway.

 

[Tdjwo]

Sakura punched the Limbo clone without her body shattering with recoil lol

Sakura "tapped" a limbo that didn't even move an inch

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Sakura "tapped" a limbo that didn't even move an inch

just like fishcake and sausage

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with Arc7Kuroi here.


Why are people trying to make base Naruto = Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto?

 

[Tdjwo]

I agree with Arc7Kuroi here.


Why are people trying to make base Naruto = Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto?

Isn't base adult Naruto=SPSM Naruto?

 

[Tdjwo]

just like fishcake and sausage

Never said they did.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Isn't base adult Naruto=SPSM Naruto?

No... base adult Naruto downscales. The chain rn is SPSM adult Nard > base adult Nard ~< Fused Momo > Kinshiki ~ 5-B. Also, Naruto got way stronger from teen to adult, so using adult Nard's base being strong isn't valid at all. Especially, when Last BSM Naruto is performing Teen SPSM Naruto level feats.

 

[Tdjwo]

No... base adult Naruto downscales. The chain rn is SPSM adult Nard > base adult Nard ~< Fused Momo > Kinshiki ~ 5-B. Also, Naruto got way stronger from teen to adult, so using adult Nard's base being strong isn't valid at all. Especially, when Last BSM Naruto is performing Teen SPSM Naruto level feats.

Using this, base EOS Naruto could look downstate from SPSM Naruto. SPSM Naruto>base Naruto~<Sasuke~5B.

 

[BlackeJan]

Isn't base adult Naruto=SPSM Naruto?

Ok but where is the evidence for this?

 

[Stryker861]

Sasuke's six paths senjutsu doesnt passively run through him, which is why he has to add it after the fact

Is that stated?

he has worse feats.

You can have worst feats and be realative

I'm not contesting that they got amped. But none of what you said proves that Sasuke's physicals = Nard's physicals. I'm asking for evidence that Sasuke has striking strength feats at the 5-B level. Either show me that or just say he doesn't.

im willing to concede on this

Sasuke seems to jump back to the spiky hair of the statue in the same time Naruto just skids back on the head of the statue. Implying Sasuke jumped back a further distance than Naruto anyway.

they both jump back at the same time and are a similar distance away during the panel and are portrayed that they did so, same for them running up to each other to clash

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ima eat and respond to thing 1 and thing 2 after

 

[Stryker861]

Using this, base EOS Naruto could look downstate from SPSM Naruto. SPSM Naruto>base Naruto~<Sasuke~5B.

I don't see why teen naruto should downscale like his adult version does just because it's the same character and form

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Using this, base EOS Naruto could look downstate from SPSM Naruto. SPSM Naruto>base Naruto~<Sasuke~5B.

No? We haven’t established Sasuke has 5-B striking strength.

they both jump back at the same time and are a similar distance away during the panel and are portrayed that they did so, same for them running up to each other to clash

Look again, Sasuke jumps back further than Naruto.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Is that stated?

Didn't Sasuke lose his six paths chakra once his eye got destroyed? Indicating it isn't naturally flowing through him but resides in his eye.

 

[Stryker861]

Look again, Sasuke jumps back further than Naruto.

Doesn't really look that way to me. Naruto still moved relative to sasuke during their clash

Didn't Sasuke lose his six paths chakra once his eye got destroyed? Indicating it isn't naturally flowing through him but resides in his eye.

The rinnegan is probably just the source of it just like loosing kuruma no longer let's Naruto use six Paths stuff I'd imagine

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Doesn't really look that way to me. Naruto still moved relative to sasuke during their clash

He didn’t lol Sasuke moving more means it’s not relative

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The rinnegan is probably just the source of it just like loosing kuruma no longer let's Naruto use six Paths stuff I'd imagine

Yeah but since that's where it starts from, it doesn't naturally flow throughout the body like his normal chakra would unless he channels it through it? Not saying that's how it is, but it's how I interpreted it.

 

[Stryker861]

Yeah but since that's where it starts from, it doesn't naturally flow throughout the body like his normal chakra would unless he channels it through it? Not saying that's how it is, but it's how I interpreted it.

When he has the rinnegan it should naturally flow like regular chakra as far as I'm aware anyway. If your asking does his body naturally produce six paths chakra without it then probably not although he does have hashi cells from kabuto so idk. Regarding the speed part what's your thoughts

 

[Stryker861]

He didn’t lol Sasuke moving more means it’s not relative

Sasukes not moving any astronomical distance farther than Naruto here. It's not like Naruto got outsped or anything of the sort. They run at each other at relative speed

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Sasukes not moving any astronomical distance farther than Naruto here. It's not like Naruto got outsped or anything of the sort. They run at each other at relative speed

It’s not enough for them to be the same value. And you can’t calc it or it’d be calc stacking.

 

[Stryker861]

It’s not enough for them to be the same value. And you can’t calc it or it’d be calc stacking.

Downscaling exists, they don't gotta be the same value to the decimal point lol. I'm just saying that it's not enough of a difference to really matter in the grand scheme of things

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Downscaling exists, they don't gotta be the same value to the decimal point lol. I'm just saying that it's not enough of a difference to really matter in the grand scheme of things

I’d disagree Sasuke went all the way to the spiky hair while Naruto stopped on the head, that’s a lot

 

[Stryker861]

I’d disagree Sasuke went all the way to the spiky hair while Naruto stopped on the head, that’s a lot

The hashirama statues only has head for naruto to stand on. Is the mf just supposed to go flying off the end of the statue lol. This doesn't even matter, in both the manga and anime naruto can clearly move at similar speeds as seen as when they run at each other. Sasuke is in no way blitzing narutos movement. I refuse to believe that you read chapter 694 and 695 as well as the anime of ep 476 and think that's not relativity

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Regarding the speed part what's your thoughts

Well I've never read the fight but if they properly leaped at each other and clashed without Sasuke putting hands on Naruto, and Naruto could perceive sasuke and his attacks then scaling could be valid in the speed department to at least some degree but again I didn't read that fight.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The hashirama statues only has head for naruto to stand on. Is the mf just supposed to go flying off the end of the statue lol. This doesn't even matter, in both the manga and anime naruto can clearly move at similar speeds as seen as when they run at each other. Sasuke is in no way blitzing narutos movement. I refuse to believe that you read chapter 694 and 695 as well as the anime of ep 476 and think that's not relativity

Bro the spiked hair is definitely further away than the flat part of his head idk how else to explain it to you, Sasuke jumped further back than Naruto. That means he’s faster… If you wanna scale base EoShip Naruto above adult no chakra Naruto to relativistic, I think that’s fine, but I disagree with the FTL stuff.

 

[Stryker861]

Bro the spiked hair is definitely further away than the flat part of his head idk how else to explain it to you, Sasuke jumped further back than Naruto. That means he’s faster… If you wanna scale base EoShip Naruto above adult no chakra Naruto to relativistic, I think that’s fine, but I disagree with the FTL stuff.

Idk how else to explain this to you but I'm not saying that Sasuke isn't faster I'm saying the difference is not big enough to warrent Naruto not being FTL when he clearly can perceive, move relative to on panel and screen, and match an attack that's in front of his face from Sasuke. There no way around it. I asked slayer about this before I posted this and he also thinks it's plenty enough, don't take my word for it though you can ask him

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Idk how else to explain this to you but I'm not saying that Sasuke isn't faster I'm saying the difference is not big enough to warrent Naruto not being FTL when he clearly can perceive, move relative to on panel and screen, and match an attack that's in front of his face from Sasuke. There no way around it. I asked slayer about this before I posted this and he also thinks it's plenty enough, don't take my word for it though you can ask him

We can agree to disagree but if staff agree I’ll concede