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Where do you guys have the kage level fighters currently?
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Narutoverse Scaling: Kazekage Rescue Mission - Pain's Assault arcs
- Thread starter KingTempest
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Ok.
You forgot we're powerscalers.
Itachi said I'll show you the clan's true strength and used genjutsu.
Genjutsu = Physical strength then?
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Anyways, we have the sandboxes and such. I'll change the title for it to fit until Pain's Assault since we've been referring to that point in time of the series.
@LordTracer you need any help with the sandboxes?
@LordTracer you need any help with the sandboxes?
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Gotcha
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For Base guy, should he just scale above Neji?
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Is there an actual reason for him to?
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Would there be a reason for him not to be? I don't think it would make much sense for him to be ine shot by Neji. Also I don't really think Neji should scale to Kisames clone.
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Neji defies durability and hits chakra points which all ninja need. It makes perfect sense for Neji.
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For Neji to what? Be physically superior to guy, or scale to Kisames clone?
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Superior to guy. His hax is all he needs.
In all honesty, I would give Neji whatever basic Jonin tier we have and defies dura w/ Goken
In all honesty, I would give Neji whatever basic Jonin tier we have and defies dura w/ Goken
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Of course in hax, but in terms of physicals, Guy is superior.
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That’s not how it works lmao. You need to have a reason for Guy to scale to Neji in the first place, you can’t just say “Why shouldn’t he scale?”
Neji yeeted 30% Kisame with an Air Palm, broke out of his water prison and killed his clones. Base Guy got folded by 30% Kisame. There is no reason for Guy to scale to Neji.
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Base Guy should scale to 30% Kisame. He was able to block an attack, and survive a punch. I think the only reason he used the 6th gate is because he was underwater which puts him at a major disadvantage, he was also about to get attacked by 5 sharks.
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Neji air palm was a suprise attack the equivalent of lee kicking kisama hand to knock the sword out of his hand
Water clones had 10% chakra that the 30% kisama had
Neither are impressive
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“surprise attack”
Kisame was looking right at Neji before he used the Air Palm, so...
Kisame was looking right at Neji before he used the Air Palm, so...
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There's no way base Guy scales.
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He was looking at lee not neji why would he be looking at neji when lee kicked his hand??
Makes no sense for kisame not to look at lee especally when he doesn't know if lee was going to continue his attacks
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What are your reasons?
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Because he got easily overpowered by Kisame, and was forced into the 6th Gate?
If "surviving" attacks is enough to scale then Kisame should scale to KCM Naruto and 7th Gate Guy.
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He didn't overpower him at all. Guy blocked his sword, then Kisame punched him with his free hand. I already explained why he used his 6th gate.
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Said punch made him bleed and sent him flying deep into the lake, while Kisame wasn't even sweating.
And no, I don't think you have imo. If he was comparable to Kisame, he wouldn't have needed the 6th Gate, it's that simple. Even if you say being underwater is a disadvantage, why go to his second highest gate? (Obviously he wouldn't use the 8th).
He could've just used any of the first 5 instead, if the difference wasn't that large.
Also him saying "Got no choice" supports the fact that he had to use the 6th Gate.
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Guys, this might sound weird. If Rock Lee stated that 8th Gate Guy is a 100x multiplier which surpasses the 5 Kage, doesn't that mean that the Kage should be around Tier 6 since 8 Gates is required to surpass them all together?
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Throughout the entire series Guy has only used gates 6-8. Him being underwater with limited air is a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why he went to the 6th gate since he just oneshot him. Why would he try and struggle underwater while sharks are swimming at him?
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That's the thing though, if he was comparable in base, then he wouldn't struggle now would he? Even the 1st gate alone is a 5x multiplier, which means it would've been more than enough on it's own, let alone gates 2-5.
Not to mention that this would create many inconsistencies. If base Guy is = to 30% Kisame, then 1st Gate Guy would be a lot stronger than 100% Kisame. This doesn't make sense because in their fight on Turtle Island, Guy again went to the 6th Gate, and was even forced into the 7th in order to overpower Kisame with a Hirudora.
This would also make Guy A LOT stronger than Kakashi, who's supposedly his rival.
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We take the 5x multiplier and directly apply it to his 6th gate form since he hasn't shown using any of the lower gates. Guy used the 7th gate for AOE since there were too many sharks for him to stop all at once.
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Us applying it to 6th gate has no correlation with 1 gate being 5x stronger than his base, which would make him > 100% Kisame, so Guy saying "Got no other choice" makes little to no sense when even just 1 gate is plenty enough to destroy him.
Guy used the 7th gate in the Hirudora/Giant Water Shark "beam struggle", he used Asakujaku in 6th to destroy his shark spam.
While on topic of it, why do we even scale War Kisame to this Kisame? and why do we scale his AP to his physicals?
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Guy has never used the first gate in the entire series, we scale what his first gate wouod be to his 6th gate since it is far stronger. He says that because he has no other way to get out of that disadvantage other that completely blitzing and one shotting him like he does with his 6th gate.
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Him never visibly using it in the series is not relevant to the topic, as if he scaled in base, even 1 gate would be enough to blitz and one shot him, as such him saying he has no other choice in the context goes against the idea of him scaling in base.
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Him using the first gate still wouldn't give him the advantage of one shooting or blitzing going by vs matches.
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Depends on the verse as standards on the wiki vary, either way thats not very relevant as we arent trying to scale wiki's one shot standards, rather just trying to decide the scaling for naruto, anyways, 1 gate being 5x faster and stronger than him would be more than enough to at least handily defeat him, as such Guy's statement would make little to no sense if he scaled in base.
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Not really, since he went right into using the 6th gate, which would mean his other gates wouldn't have done the job. Also the standard doesn't vary, it's a 7.5x different for a one shot.
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Well, the water bubble jutsu probably wouldn't scale to his physicals.
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Well, yes that is exactly what im arguining, considering he instatntly went into 6th gate, and stated he had no other choice, it implies he needed it, however if he scaled in base that wouldnt be the case, as every single gate would be at the very least 5x stronger than the kisame.
Going directly from the wiki "one-shot page":
"This value is only an approximation, and the actual gap can be higher or lower depending on certain factors. As such, it should not be assumed that a gap of 7.5x will lead to a one-shot in every single situation without exception."
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Fair enough on the one shot thing. Guy not using the fist gate is just a plot hole in the story. His base should scale or the multipliers shouldn't be used.
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I do not see how it is a plot hole, all it means is he never really faced anyone who required him to go 1 gate or so. And yea, sure, not using the multipler at all would technically speaking "solve it".
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If guy was anywhere in the 7-C/Low 7-B range he would have been killed with that one punch from Kisame, which he survived. Unless we just downscale his base from 30% Kisame, I think that would solve it.
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Downscaling from multipliers should never be a thing, as it can be used to vastly inflate some of the ratings and brings upon topics of whether to use multipliers above scaling/feats or not at all.
Regardless of that, we cannot downscale him by 5x or whatever since it would imply 6th gate is roughly even to 1 gate, another bigger reason why we cant do it is because 30% kisame and 6th gate guy are not even at all.
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