Tdjwo
He/Him- 2,962
- 1,176
Hello. Before anyone who saw the last CRT says anything, no, this is not like the last CRT. I'm not trying to make anything convoluted. This CRT is simply me trying to make the Root "key" more accurate than before.
Firstly, on this wiki, Swirl of The Root is given the same identity as 「 」.
In Fate Zero, it was stated that Swirl of The Root was the pinnacle of power in the entire Nasuverse. The "Throne of God."
However, it has also been directly implied that the Swirl of The Root is a part of 「 」.
The existence of Saber Shiki also proves this.
Saber Shiki has a connection to the Root. It's directly stated that she "was born of 「 」and would one day reach 「 」." In order words, unlike Void Shiki, who is 「 」, Saber Shiki is yet to become that. She hasn't reached 「 」. She's merely a dream, an illusion, a weaker version of Void. That is because the Root itself, which is what Saber Shiki is, was born out of 「 」.
As we commonly know, different people have attempted to reach the root. Araya, Aozaki, Norikata, etc. But while some of them failed and got erased into nothingness, some still managed actually to reach the Root. The general notion of this wiki is that the Swirl of The Root follows Negative Theology. Negative Theology is the act of trying to reach or describe God by what he's not. A phenomenon that embodies Negative Theology is, by default, unreachable and incomprehensible. So the mere fact that different people successfully reached the root, even if they untimely got erased, nonetheless already discredits the fact that the Root has Apophatic Theology.
Michael Roa's soul, for example, repeatedly survived passing through Akasha several times without getting erased permanently. So not only did he reach the root, but also survived it. That's another evidence that the root is not 「 」. The mere fact that another existence excluding Void Shiki or the root shares the same tiering in any way(1A soul for Roa) disproves the notion of Negative Theology for the root. And lastly, it's stated that concepts in their primordial forms trace on infinitely till they reach the Root.
And concepts with the relation to the root are already accepted as 1A on this site. If it were indeed following negative theology, concepts wouldn't be on the same tier as the root.
That's why 「 」is different from Swirl of The Root.
It follows Apophatic Theology without any contradictions.
The Spiral of Origin was somewhat a realm that was「 」, but because it had a name and comprehensibility, it became separate from「 」, and every description given only becomes one with Spiral of Origin and not「 」because it holds true for the Spiral of Origin but not for the incomprehensible「 」. That is supported by the fact different people can reach or touch the Root, but no one has ever been stated to reach 「 」. The only person that reached there was Shiki and that's because Shiki is the physical manifestation of Emptiness「 」. Just having a name is already enough for you not to reach. This supports the notion of Apophatic Theology for「 」.
This is why I'm suggesting the wiki creates a separate key for the apophatic/indescribable 「 」while the Swirl of The Root Key remains the same. Swirl of the Root would remain 1A for being completely transcendent of the rest of reality, transcending dimensional theories, and unrestrained in a domain free from binary opposition. So instead of this AP justification for the root;
Characters that scaled to 1A Root would remain 1A.
Please do not derail or bring in unrelated discussions to the thread. I don't want to go through what I went last night.
Agree
Disagree:
Neutral:
Firstly, on this wiki, Swirl of The Root is given the same identity as 「 」.
However, not only is this not completely correct, but it's also contradictory to the Nasuverse lore. I'm surprised no one has stated this here because even the Type moon wiki of all things implemented this idea already.Name: Akasha, Swirl of the Root, "The Root", "The Spiral of Origin", "Heaven", 「 」
In Fate Zero, it was stated that Swirl of The Root was the pinnacle of power in the entire Nasuverse. The "Throne of God."
However, it has also been directly implied that the Swirl of The Root is a part of 「 」.
「……そうね。式は、壊すことしかできないもの。あなたにとっては、やっぱりわたしは式なんだ わ」
「――式?」
「……わたしの起源は虚無だから、その肉体を持つ式は死が視える。二年間――昏睡状態で外界を見ることもで きず、ただ両儀式という虚無を見つめ続けてきた式は、死の手触りを知ってしまったから。
式はね、ずっと根源の渦と呼ばれる海に浮いていたのよ。ただひとり、「 」のなかで式というカタチをもっ て」
……たしかに虚無というものが起源であるのなら、彼女は全てのものを無に|帰《き》したいと思うのだろう 。
だから例外なく、式はあらゆるモノを殺せた。式という人格が否定しようと、それが彼女の魂の原型なのだか ら。虚無であるが故に、あらゆるものの死を望む方向性――。
「そう、それが式の能力よ。|浅上藤乃《あさがみ ふじの》と同じ、人とは違ったモノが見れる特殊なチャンネル。根源の渦という世界の縮図を|垣間《かいま》 見られる特別な眼。
けど、わたしはもっと深いところまで潜っていける。いえ――わたし自身が、その渦なのかもし れないわ」
Shiki repeatedly calls Spiral of Origin differently compared to 「Nothingness」or " ". And Spiral of Origin is located in 「Nothingness」yet far away from it. Described as a sea while 「 」is described as nothingess. Yet, Void Shiki is connected to both as she is both"...Indeed. Shiki is incapable of causing anything but destruction. And as far as you're concerned, I'm Shiki after all."
"---Shiki?"
"...My Origin is Nothingness. As a result, Shiki, who is possessed of that body, can perceive death. Two years ago--- when she fell into a coma, the outside world was shut off to her. Her vision turned inward toward the nothingness called Ryougi Shiki, and she felt the touch of death.
Shiki floated on the sea known as the spiral of origin for a long, long time. A solitary form in the void of 「 」."
...With an Origin like "Nothingness" the girl would certainly feel compelled to return everything to nothing.
Therefore, she was able to kill all things without exception. Even if the personality of Shiki tried to deny it, her soul itself was oriented toward the death of everything.
"That is Shiki's ability. Just like Asagami Fujino, she has a unique channel that can see things normal humans can't. Eyes that can glimpse the spiral of origin, itself a microcosm of the greater world.
But, I can dive even deeper than she. Or rather... I suppose you could say that I myself am that spiral - Kara no Kyoukai (Original epilogue)
The existence of Saber Shiki also proves this.
Saber Shiki has a connection to the Root. It's directly stated that she "was born of 「 」and would one day reach 「 」." In order words, unlike Void Shiki, who is 「 」, Saber Shiki is yet to become that. She hasn't reached 「 」. She's merely a dream, an illusion, a weaker version of Void. That is because the Root itself, which is what Saber Shiki is, was born out of 「 」.
As we commonly know, different people have attempted to reach the root. Araya, Aozaki, Norikata, etc. But while some of them failed and got erased into nothingness, some still managed actually to reach the Root. The general notion of this wiki is that the Swirl of The Root follows Negative Theology. Negative Theology is the act of trying to reach or describe God by what he's not. A phenomenon that embodies Negative Theology is, by default, unreachable and incomprehensible. So the mere fact that different people successfully reached the root, even if they untimely got erased, nonetheless already discredits the fact that the Root has Apophatic Theology.
Michael Roa's soul, for example, repeatedly survived passing through Akasha several times without getting erased permanently. So not only did he reach the root, but also survived it. That's another evidence that the root is not 「 」. The mere fact that another existence excluding Void Shiki or the root shares the same tiering in any way(1A soul for Roa) disproves the notion of Negative Theology for the root. And lastly, it's stated that concepts in their primordial forms trace on infinitely till they reach the Root.
And concepts with the relation to the root are already accepted as 1A on this site. If it were indeed following negative theology, concepts wouldn't be on the same tier as the root.
That's why 「 」is different from Swirl of The Root.
It follows Apophatic Theology without any contradictions.
The Spiral of Origin was somewhat a realm that was「 」, but because it had a name and comprehensibility, it became separate from「 」, and every description given only becomes one with Spiral of Origin and not「 」because it holds true for the Spiral of Origin but not for the incomprehensible「 」. That is supported by the fact different people can reach or touch the Root, but no one has ever been stated to reach 「 」. The only person that reached there was Shiki and that's because Shiki is the physical manifestation of Emptiness「 」. Just having a name is already enough for you not to reach. This supports the notion of Apophatic Theology for「 」.
This is why I'm suggesting the wiki creates a separate key for the apophatic/indescribable 「 」while the Swirl of The Root Key remains the same. Swirl of the Root would remain 1A for being completely transcendent of the rest of reality, transcending dimensional theories, and unrestrained in a domain free from binary opposition. So instead of this AP justification for the root;
It should become;Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Is the "Spiral of Origin", the grand mass of nothingness that all concepts in existence sprang forth from, and is where everything returns when it is destroyed. Controls[2] and exists at the summit of all dimensional theories[3], existing independently of it's definitions. It is completely transcendent of the rest of reality, an unrestrained domain free from binary opposition[4]. While spoken of as the "Spiral of Origin", this term cannot be applied to its true essence as 「 」, and any possible description or definition one could try giving is immediately separated into its own idea unrelated to 「 」[5])
Apophatic Theology grants at the bare minimum 1A, but since the notions of 1A Root is completely below「 」, it would become High 1A.Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Is the "Spiral of Origin", the grand mass of nothingness that all concepts in existence sprang forth from, and is where everything returns when it is destroyed. Controls[2] and exists at the summit of all dimensional theories[3], existing independently of it's definitions. It is completely transcendent of the rest of reality, an unrestrained domain free from binary opposition[4]. High Outerversal (While spoken of as the "Spiral of Origin", this term cannot be applied to its true essence as 「 」, and any possible description or definition one could try giving is immediately separated into its own idea unrelated to 「 」because of its quintessence of Apophatic Theology, every existence derived from it would always be a part of it while never truly reaching or comprehending its ineffibility[5])
Characters that scaled to 1A Root would remain 1A.
- Swirl of The Root
- Ryougi Shiki (Saber)
- Roa's soul
- Shiki Tohno's MEoDP hax
- Ciel's 1A Holy Scripture hax
- True Emptiness 「 」
- Ryougi Shiki (Void)
Please do not derail or bring in unrelated discussions to the thread. I don't want to go through what I went last night.
Agree
Disagree:
Neutral:
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