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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

ArkhamDC06 said:
It's a matter of opinions but I think they're better as characters than Shiki in various ways. Shiki is actually very similar to a lot of them, notably Alice, Morgan and Senua due to their complexity, mental state and morality. Senua and Alice are a textbook example of a character with mental illness that are just perfectly represented an done for me. Their stories are some of the most beautiful, haunting and fascinating thematically with extremely strong themses everyone should embrace. Morgan is an incredibly well-done deconstruction of a villain, one buildt on horrifying tragedy, constant mistake at recognizing a harsh truth rarely seen in fiction (some people are just rotten beyond redemption and will outright shit on you for trying to help them) which instantly makes her beyond refreshing for me. Her design is excellent, her powerset is fantastic, so is the fact that you don't get to defeat her, she dies a humiliating death that ciments her tragic status even more, she's a superb counterpart to the classic idea of Morgana Le Fay. She's a textbook example of what a tragic villain should be, right up there with the likes of Magneto or Two-Face.

Maleficent is just perfect as an antagonist, one of the best villains in cinema, both animated and live-action, yes she's much less complex than Shiki since she's a card-carrying villain but she's perfect for her role. Her design is sinister and screams evil but also beautiful and elegant, she's vicious, sadistic and cruel while talking and behaving in manners that are both dignified and condescending at the same time without feeling forced, she's a beast of pure raw power but is immensly cunning and careful in her plans, she devours the scene everytime she's on screen, she's collected but her outbursts are memorably horrifying and destructive, her dialogue drips with delicious evilness that makes what should have been cheezy delightful to hear because it's precisely her saying those lines and the final battle against her is a testament of what a good, blood-chilling and exciting climax should be. She's much more than a good villain, she's an absolute standard of what a badass, proudly evil and sadistic villain should be in terms of power, presence in the story and on-screen, aura, elegance, cunning, strength and cruelty.

Aqua and Sypha are superbly-made good characters who do everything they can to bring hope and safety to others yet have flaws that makes them reliable for everyone, more than Shiki (mainly because Shiki is a very particular character). They face horrific situations, enemies and fates that shake them but never give up, they're utterly badass and prove it more and more yet they can also be put in difficulties not simply by utterly powerful foes but by the right amount of mid-level enemies who can put them on the ropes, showing they're not invincible and need help to go further, which again makes them particulary reliable in ways even totally mundane people can relate to (which is weird cause I'm a very cynical person so I tend to get annoyed by simple lessons like "be good" but both of them manage to be engaging thanks to how they're written both as characters and in their story and it makes them considerably good for me).

Maybe that's because I knew the above before her so I already had examples of broken, insane, ruthless and complex female characters but even after seeing how complex and well-written Shiki is (and she is FAR ABOVE so-called great characters like Ellie from The Last of Us, Aloy from Horizon or Wanda from the MCU) and she definitely should get more recognition (and not simply in the Nasuverse but as a character as a whole), she doesn't reach the same level for me, she's excellent but not mind-blowing. ALL the others above have left something much stronger on me. I honestly can say they basically created a standard for me for what strong female characters should be, because they were just that good, well-made and memorable.

As for Medea, I admit, it's just me. On an "objective" degree, Shiki is better but I can't not love her more, I love her design, her voice, her powers and I'm a sucker for Greek Mythology. Same for Rin, I just think the character is an excellent, complex and more subtle tsundere. There are other characters like those two I prefer compared to Shiki (like Aoko, Princess Leia, Artoria or Ellen Ripley) but Shiki is superior to them.
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All of these are great characters for sure. I find Shiki to be more interesting as I said. I think her whole journey of learning of her humanity and accepting it is beyond peak and the different dynamics she has and how that opens up her humanity is incredible. The philosophical aspects of KnK also do a great job at actually being very relevant to Shiki's psychological conflict, which is also a huge plus. And the way the worldbuilding plays into her characterization and writing is great. And beyond all of that, she's just a very impactful character for me. There are obviously characters that I value more (Ange, Kim Wexler, Laura Palmer, Morgana, Beatrice Ushiromiya, Arya Stark, etc.), but Shiki's still incredible for me.

For me, the best characters are the ones that intrigue me more. This can be through multiple ways obviously, but that intrigue is what puts a character higher than another for me. It's why I have someone like Walter White over Shirou or something. Cause fundamentally, I find him to be a far more interesting character.
 
Quick question. In Remake are Idea Bloods considered to be equivalent to the principles in sense of Principles>Concepts?

Because a Friend was arguing with me that the Idea Bloods were similar to LOTM’s Uniqueness which are the physical manifestations of the concepts and authority which the specific pathway embodies. For example the Error pathway’s uniqueness being the physical version of the pathway’s authority over errors in logic, time, theft, and etc.

My friend believes that Idea bloods are similar to being the embodiment of the specific principle. Can anyone provide an answer?
 
rogueprestonian said:
Quick question. In Remake are Idea Bloods considered to be equivalent to the principles in sense of Principles>Concepts?

Because a Friend was arguing with me that the Idea Bloods were similar to LOTM’s Uniqueness which are the physical manifestations of the concepts and authority which the specific pathway embodies. For example the Error pathway’s uniqueness being the physical version of the pathway’s authority over errors in logic, time, theft, and etc.

My friend believes that Idea bloods are similar to being the embodiment of the specific principle. Can anyone provide an answer?
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AFAIK, Nasu has never written anything to do with hierachy of "Principles" vs "Concepts", but if there would be any, I don't think Principles would be above Concepts, mainly for the fact that Gods/Authority would be the representation of the Concepts, and they would clearly outmatch (at least, when properly functioning) any of the processes that use a principle/logic, such as Skills.

Going by what you wrote, Uniqueness seems to be more similar to Gods/Authority than to Idea Blood.
 
Out of curiosity since many people here don't like using Nasu WoG, would anyone here agree with rejecting them if a CRT were made saying scaling shouldn't be justified using them
(Don't plan on doing this myself since I already have a thread still ongoing but I'm curious since WoG is used to scale Tsukihime and FSN to each other, even though that's not backed up in lore at all. Just WoG)
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
they're incompatble worlds, but da scaling to servants is supported by jester being able to fight against a few in sf
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I'm aware, but the DAAs in Tsukihime and Melty are far above you're average DAA is the thing since they're actually comparable to Arcueid, and other DAAs are a non threat to Arcueid in lore. If anything, that'd mean they'd upscale.
Jester isn't even a DAA either, which justifies upscaling, ergo Servants still wouldn't scale to Tsukihime.
 
Violatas said:
I'm aware, but the DAAs in Tsukihime and Melty are far above you're average DAA is the thing since they're actually comparable to Arcueid, and other DAAs are a non threat to Arcueid in lore. If anything, that'd mean they'd upscale.
Jester isn't even a DAA either, which justifies upscaling, ergo Servants still wouldn't scale to Tsukihime.
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OG vampire hierarchy

Demon Lords > True Ancestors > DAAs > DAs

Arcueid while still holding back could stomp out Demon Lords, but DAAs like Roa, Wallachia, and Nero Chaos are shown to be actual threats to her, which puts them massively above your average DAA and no name True Ancestors and Demon Lords. The cross scaling really doesn't make sense honestly.
 
Violatas said:
OG vampire hierarchy

Demon Lords > True Ancestors > DAAs > DAs

Arcueid while still holding back could stomp out Demon Lords, but DAAs like Roa, Wallachia, and Nero Chaos are shown to be actual threats to her, which puts them massively above your average DAA and no name True Ancestors and Demon Lords. The cross scaling really doesn't make sense honestly.
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That arcueid was still heavily weakened by shiki killing her and such.
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
That arcueid was still heavily weakened by shiki killing her and such.
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She says she'd need her full power to beat Nero Chaos.

Roa at his prime stomped Altrouge and killed off a lot of True Ancestors

Wallachia is somewhat comparable to Melty Blood Arcueid, and was gonna damage her in the Melty manga, hence why Sion intervenes to redirect his attack since Arcueid herself couldn't move due to maintaining the moon she summons from the future.
None of these 3 are "normal" DAA level
 
LehenDuo said:
Not only that - she was weakened by Altrouge's episode (hair), weakened by having to keep her bloodthirst in check after Roa's episode and weakened by Shiki "killing" her.
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Everything I said isn't referring to a weakened Arcueid either

And Altrouge taking her hair didn't weaken her? I'm not sure where that comes from
 
I don’t know the next time someone’s gonna make a general tension thread but when they do.

Manaka should have this Brynhild feat removed from her profile.
Stopped Brynhildr's spear with a finger
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It’s explained she only stopped her noble phantasm because Bryn had no love for her in her heart, making it effectively unable to hurt her.
If she did that then, ah, Saber, I won’t have to kill you!
The Gnome instantaneously called out to Caster who was just with his dangerous Master, as she severed the magical shield and its physics which boasted the strength of a diamond without mistakenly aiming twice.
Severing roughly everything the huge lance which had now reached 3000 kilograms, had continued to complete its transformation, enlarging itself while working together with her flames of love that had risen in heat by getting excited about her chances,.

But.
But.

The huge blade of the Noble Phantasm wielded by Lancer, couldn’t take the girl’s life.

Girl: “Too bad, it looks like it’s a little too light.”

It was just one fingertip.
The girl’s white finger, stopped, the tip of the lance.
If she shook it at an opponent that she deeply loved, her lance of destiny would give off a shot similar to a disintegration ray, her Noble Phantasm would also show its effectiveness as a super heavy armament to an opponent that she shallowly loved, but, there was nothing but the soul of a silver devil there in this place!

Girl: “Is it possible…….that you don‘t like me?”

The girl smiled.

Girl: “You love heroes. The water, the earth, you love Tokyo too. But you don’t like me. If that’s the case, then it’s no use. I can’t even feel the weight, of your Noble Phantasm.”
Click to expand...
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Brynhildr's love thing just a matter of power augmentation? Like, the dialogue says if she had loved Manaka, she would have launch a disintegration-like attack but it's never stated she can't hurt people. From what I understand, she can still harm others even without loving them, she just can't use the full power of Brynhildr Komedia against someone she doesn't love
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Brynhildr's love thing just a matter of power augmentation? Like, the dialogue says if she had loved Manaka, she would have launch a disintegration-like attack but it's never stated she can't hurt people. From what I understand, she can still harm others even without loving them, she just can't use the full power of Brynhildr Komedia against someone she doesn't love
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For it to work at all she has to love the target in some way, and it helps that she basically loves everything at the very least a little, well everything but Manaka, who she just deeply hates, which makes it so she can’t feel the NP’s “weight” and its ineffective against her.
 
Alsotime said:
For it to work at all she has to love the target in some way, and it helps that she basically loves everything at the very least a little, well everything but Manaka, who she just deeply hates, which makes it so she can’t feel the NP’s “weight” and its ineffective against her.
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Mmh true I was under the impression she was using normal attacks but judging by the dialogue she's using her NP so that doesn't work
 
ArkhamDC06 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Brynhildr's love thing just a matter of power augmentation? Like, the dialogue says if she had loved Manaka, she would have launch a disintegration-like attack but it's never stated she can't hurt people. From what I understand, she can still harm others even without loving them, she just can't use the full power of Brynhildr Komedia against someone she doesn't love
Click to expand...

Combining Passionlip & Bryn's descriptions of NPs, I understood the scene as yeah, it is a power augmentation, but the weapon itself, the spear, being the manifestation of the love and hatred (that is derived from said love, from the betrayal of her "doomed lover" Sigurd, not hatred in itself/by itself) being used as a weapon/attack, it literally didn't recognized Manaka - it's not that it wasn't effective, but it literally didn't interacted with her in no way whatsoever, given "If that’s the case, then it’s no use. I can’t even feel the weight, of your Noble Phantasm.". Not so different from the concept of Tradition Protection, maybe? (aka "rules that things follow for there being interactions between them", referenced in Ploys and in Wandering Sea/Baldaders.)
 
So I saw that Site Standards say that you can make profiles for Tier 1 as long as they scale to someone who already has that scaling. So I didn't even need to make a thread.
Planning on publishing the Ibuki-Douji and Ashiya Douman profiles. Does anyone have any qualms about the profiles before I publish them?
 
BreezeHM said:
So I saw that Site Standards say that you can make profiles for Tier 1 as long as they scale to someone who already has that scaling. So I didn't even need to make a thread.
Planning on publishing the Ibuki-Douji and Ashiya Douman profiles. Does anyone have any qualms about the profiles before I publish them?
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In the quote section, can you take the name of Ibuki Douji from the start?
Like, the profile is like this:
Ibuki-douji: Hear my name, creatures of this world. Gaze upon my form, creatures who slumber in the great beyond.
I am Ibuki-Douji...
the dragon god of disaster.
I am the mountains and water.
I am the earth and steel.
I am the heavens and storms.
I am fire and war.
I am the first of Yamata-no-Orochi's eight heads and tails.
I come to you now from the mountain, and calamity follows in my wake.
To all living things...
I am disaster made manifest.
Click to expand...
And i think is kinda unescessary to put her Name at the beggining.
 
vsbattles.com

White Woman slasher vs Goku??? (7-2-0)

Since EE can be equated to AP in certain circumstances as of a recent thread, Shiki Tohno is now one of the biggest glass cannons on the wiki. But can he beat Goku? Shiki Tohno : 7 Son Goku (DBS_Anime) : 2 Incon: 0 Tohno in his Nanaya (Tsukihime) key Goku in his Super Hero key Starts with...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

am i cooking?
 
vsbattles.com

Shiki Ryougi vs Yhwach (2-6-0)

It's time to put another one of the Shiki's vs fodder. SBA Literal Emptiness: 2 Anime Hitler: Yhwach uses Schrifts Speed Equalized. 20m range Ryougi is using her melty blood key. Yhwach is using Soul King Absorbed https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ryougi_Shiki...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Oh I never realized Tohno Shiki got upgraded to 1A. I thought we never used hax to determine profiles tiering. If this is the case, shouldn't Gilgamesh get 1A via holy scriptures?
 
Tdjwo said:
Oh I never realized Tohno Shiki got upgraded to 1A. I thought we never used hax to determine profiles tiering. If this is the case, shouldn't Gilgamesh get 1A via holy scriptures?
Click to expand...
You can use existence erase as AP if...

The potency is tier 2 and above
and if its used like a normal attack.
 
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