Object Show General Discussion Thread: New Friendly

[Psychomaster35]

I agree that Two was using their power in that scene since they literally had a “powering up” moment right before the punch. Saw would, at best, still downscale the feat by a lot (since Two was applying blunt force with the surface area of their fist while Saw was just cutting it using the much smaller area of their blade) and, at worse, it could be considered an outlier without more feats of scaling to the Algebralians’ powers’ strength.

You still have moments of the contestants being able to withstand hits from Four who is pretty much established to be >= Two in power, and while arguments could be made that he was potentially holding back, the fact that his power is infinite (4-D) means that even if he's holding back, he's still exerting 4-D levels of power, given that infinity divided by any finite number is still infinity. At worst, they would downscale assuming you do believe that he's holding back.

Also I don’t really get why you’re comparing Two and One’s level of exhaustion after using their powers, would you mind clarifying that for me?

One was hardly exhausted after doing the timeline restoration feat given how all she needed to do was do a casual kick, while Two started sweating after doing their physical feat implying that he exerted more power than One's casual feat.

Anyways, unrelated to this conversation, but new episode's out

 

[Axorandom0]

One was hardly exhausted after doing the timeline restoration feat given how all she needed to do was do a casual kick, while Two started sweating after doing their physical feat implying that he exerted more power than One's casual feat.

I mean, we already accept Two > base One. The plot of the show kinda hinges on that being the case since why else did she want their power. This is just an additional feat for it.

and while arguments could be made that he was potentially holding back, the fact that his power is infinite (4-D) means that even if he's holding back, he's still exerting 4-D levels of power, given that infinity divided by any finite number is still infinity. At worst, they would downscale assuming you do believe that he's holding back.

I’m pretty sure we accept infinite power characters being able to hold back enough to not instantly kill finite power characters. If not, then I think we need to start reanalyzing a certain comic character…

 

[Aperschmoo445]

Anyways, unrelated to this conversation, but new episode's out

Spoiler

I really like the new approach on what they’ve done with Paper and Looseleaf. Much better than the original season 1 altercation (even if I’m gonna miss the piano kill cause that was really funny) Also, Mephone can just snap away things instantly now (I forget if this is an ability he’s had before)

 

[Diamond_Drone]

That block Two punched still survived being hit by Two's amped power, and Saw's blade was still able to cut through it, meaning that scaling is still possible.

And we have examples of Objects getting one-shot by those with a fraction of the power Two had at the start of the season or just getting overpowered by those on the same level as Two when they're serious. Two probably just didn't use Multiversal levels of power on some random box, especially since it was part of an attraction that he needed to judge and approve of in his own theme park (Also One, despite being the more violent one when it comes to using the Yoylite power, is shown and stated by Two to be holding back her power in the most recent episode since she wanted the other numbers to know how she felt and she still retained that glow from being amped with power when she kicked a depowered Four into the moon).

You still have moments of the contestants being able to withstand hits from Four who is pretty much established to be >= Two in power, and while arguments could be made that he was potentially holding back, the fact that his power is infinite (4-D) means that even if he's holding back, he's still exerting 4-D levels of power, given that infinity divided by any finite number is still infinity. At worst, they would downscale assuming you do believe that he's holding back.

Yeah, that's technically mathematically correct... but then we have Thor from Marvel Comics and that whole Omega Flowey thing from Undertale, which reminds us that people creating these shows and stuff don't really care about math that much and can have infinite power characters only exert finite levels of power if they want (and if you have to rely on a technicality like THAT to get people downscaling from those way above their league, then every interaction they have that requires energy becomes problematic like Two making a crater in the earth when first arriving and with clearly no preperation to make sure he lands on the correct planet).

 

[Aperschmoo445]

Just to clarify, are we just basically discussing with the exact numbers of how far they scale into the 4 universes? I think the objects downscaling a bit lower from the “powerful” algebraliens (Four, Two, Amped One) is fine, as long as they’re still in that 2-C tier, all fine with me.

 

[Axorandom0]

Just to clarify, are we just basically discussing with the exact numbers of how far they scale into the 4 universes? I think the objects downscaling a bit lower from the “powerful” algebraliens (Four, Two, Amped One) is fine, as long as they’re still in that 2-C tier, all fine with me.

The general debate is on if the contestants should even downscale from the algebralians’ powers, not just how much they do downscale. They definitely scale to their physicals when their powers aren’t amping themselves (I mean, literally just look at the ending of TPOT 1), but there’s also enough showcases of the powers being absurdly more powerful than the contestants to warrant not scaling them at all to the powers’ AP in any way.

 

[Aperschmoo445]

The general debate is on if the contestants should even downscale from the algebralians’ powers, not just how much they do downscale. They definitely scale to their physicals when their powers aren’t amping themselves (I mean, literally just look at the ending of TPOT 1), but there’s also enough showcases of the powers being absurdly more powerful than the contestants to warrant not scaling them at all to the powers’ AP in any way.

So then they’d be like…just baseline 4 universes then instead of 477.88x then?

 

[Axorandom0]

So then they’d be like…just baseline 4 universes then instead of 477.88x then?

Maybe not even that since they’d need to be shown scaling to One’s powers (not just her physicals) as well. The only “fight” I recall One being in before getting Two & Four’s powers was against Leafy, where Leafy harmed her with a book (twice), but was also needing to dodge her eye blasts with a somewhat scared expression during their confrontation. Also I just realized that she’s a bum at fighting here as well

 

[Aperschmoo445]

Maybe not even that since they’d need to be shown scaling to One’s powers (not just her physicals) as well. The only “fight” I recall One being in before getting Two & Four’s powers was against Leafy, where Leafy harmed her with a book (twice), but was also needing to dodge her eye blasts with a somewhat scared expression during their confrontation. Also I just realized that she’s a bum at fighting here as well

I mean, Snowball survived this, and this definitely was with X’s powers. X should scale to One as both absorbed one fragment of Yoyleite, and despite X’s calm nature I don’t think this is an occasion he’d hold back. So I think baseline 4 universes is fine. Maybe we should discuss this again after we get a CRT done from all the stuff we have at the moment? Also yea her combat/skill is not great. Weirdly aside from her Announcer chase.

 

[Psychomaster35]

And we have examples of Objects getting one-shot by those with a fraction of the power Two had at the start of the season or just getting overpowered by those on the same level as Two when they're serious.

For reference, the one-shot value can vary differently between verses with it not always being at 8x. As a matter of fact, we actually currently accept the one-shot gap in BFDI being 1.05882352941x based on Liy with 1/17 of Two's powers being able to one-shot a base Fanny.

Two probably just didn't use Multiversal levels of power on some random box, especially since it was part of an attraction that he needed to judge and approve of in his own theme park (Also One, despite being the more violent one when it comes to using the Yoylite power, is shown and stated by Two to be holding back her power in the most recent episode since she wanted the other numbers to know how she felt and she still retained that glow from being amped with power when she kicked a depowered Four into the moon).

Except they were still implied to be exerting more force than One's timeline restoration feat due to them noticeably sweating after doing the feat whereas One hardly sweated at all, so no matter what, even if they were holding back (Which is never implied because TSTOE called it a strength game which Two proceeded to destroy afterward the moment they punched the block off of the rope), they are still upscaling from One's timeline restoration feat.

Even if you somehow do not physically scale Two's amped punching feat from TPOT 3 to their durability, you still have this scene in TPOT 6 of an enraged Four hitting Two with a Zappy which they survive easily, and it's never really implied that Four was holding back in that scene given how he was mad that his food was being stolen in that context, especially given how Pillow just taunted him.

Yeah, that's technically mathematically correct... but then we have Thor from Marvel Comics and that whole Omega Flowey thing from Undertale, which reminds us that people creating these shows and stuff don't really care about math that much and can have infinite power characters only exert finite levels of power if they want (and if you have to rely on a technicality like THAT to get people downscaling from those way above their league, then every interaction they have that requires energy becomes problematic like Two making a crater in the earth when first arriving and with clearly no preperation to make sure he lands on the correct planet).

These must vary from verse to verse in that case, as well as the fact that some AoE fallacy is being involved. Two's crater, especially, was them not really trying to attack.

(Honestly, I'm not quite sure how some discussion about scaling Flipped Liy to post-power absorption One (Which I admittedly took back) somehow devolved into this stuff clarified in the profiles if you bother to read them...)

 

[Axorandom0]

I mean, Snowball survived this, and this definitely was with X’s powers. X should scale to One as both absorbed one fragment of Yoyleite, and despite X’s calm nature I don’t think this is an occasion he’d hold back. So I think baseline 4 universes is fine. Maybe we should discuss this again after we get a CRT done from all the stuff we have at the moment? Also yea her combat/skill is not great. Weirdly aside from her Announcer chase.

1. To my knowledge, Snowball isn’t seen for the rest of the episode after that, so we don’t know exactly how well he took it. Maybe a downscale can be argued, but I’d rather play it safe.
2. X already accepted to be stronger than base One, I’m not arguing against that lol