One-Punch Man: Beefcake's AP Calcs

[ZillertheBucko]

I know I sad this before, but I don't think any scaling crts really need to be held up due to the value of a calc, since the scaling will be there regardless of what value this is.
This technically isn't a crt either, so it's fine to just get on with other stuff.

 

[Kachon123]

Bumping this.

 

[Damage3245]

Bumping this.

Messaged M3X and he's said he'll take a look into this once he's free.

 

[Kachon123]

Great

 

[M3X_2.0]

Reading now

 

[M3X_2.0]

@Kachon123 and @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson may I ask why do you guys think your method is the best here?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

@Kachon123 and @Shmeatywerbenmanjenson may I ask why do you guys think your method is the best here?

I have a few reasons why I believe the building method is the best to go with here

First however I would like to point out how we treat canon on VSbattles Wiki
Primary canon > Secondary Canon, in cases of secondary canon contradicting what is shown or stated in the manga it is commonly disregarded
The Guidebook would fall under secondary canon

1. The stated height issue - Goes hand in hand with what I said above but the point I'm making is; In every panel we see Beefcake he is drawn differently in size that is true, however even in his smallest panels he fails to measure anywhere near the 240 meter stated size. This is further supported by two feats that are done and attributed to his utterly gargantuan size; That being him destroying an entire town with a swing of his arm and him causing the destruction of an entire city with him falling over. Not only do the two panels show a far greater size than the stated one, it'd be an extraordinary stretch to say that these feats are even possible with a size stated as small as in the guidebook.

2. Why it's the best option to scale - At first glance you'd probably believe that anything we scale in the panel is inconsistent and prone to error and that would be true. Put plainly this panel has many inconsistently sized roads and buildings that things wouldn't line up no matter what you get for the per pixel value, so why use one object over the other? Well quite frankly we should use buildings because Murata doesn't know how to draw roads, at least in the chapter this happens in. I've already shown above that even Murata's one-lane and two-lane roads result in dozens to 100+ meter results. That along with buildings being the primary focus of drawing cityscapes leads one to the conclusion that one should be used over the other. Even if you don't accept that, in the particular panel we are scaling the sizes of the roads vary far more than the buildings ever do with them being as large as or larger than the dozen story buildings themselves. This along with them being lower detail than the building as well as there being no set size for roads (3.7 meters is the lane size which does not account for any barriers or the shoulders) leads me to the conclusion that the building scaling is better (as the floor average is far more common than US specific lane sizes). I'm not saying the buildings don't vary in size as it's very apparent they do, however they don't do it nearly as much as the roads do. It is still an assumption to assume a height of a building on panel however it is an extremely founded one as we have numerous panels beforehand showing 10+ story buildings as well as two instances of broken 10+ story buildings in the direct vicinity of the crater.
It assumes that only the largest drawn building on panel meets this standard as a way further limit an size extrapolation whil also using the building directly adjacent to the hole as opposed to in the foreground or background which would alter size. And of course most importantly it results in a size consistent with the skyscraper dwarfing hole we see on panel.

 

[Damage3245]

1. The stated height issue - Goes hand in hand with what I said above but the point I'm making is; In every panel we see Beefcake he is drawn differently in size that is true, however even in his smallest panels he fails to measure anywhere near the 240 meter stated size. This is further supported by two feats that are done and attributed to his utterly gargantuan size; That being him destroying an entire town with a swing of his arm and him causing the destruction of an entire city with him falling over. Not only do the two panels show a far greater size than the stated one, it'd be an extraordinary stretch to say that these feats are even possible with a size stated as small as in the guidebook.

Why does artwork, which can vary depending on perspective and artistic embellishments, matter more to you than canonically stated information?

Are you arguing that Beefcake has a different canonical height to what has been supplied to us in the databook?

I feel like if we're going to go anywhere from here, we need to agree on the fundamentals. What do you think the accurate figure is for Beefcake's height? Once we can agree on what that should be, we can see where we stand.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Your version has much more assumptions than Damage's version though, how is it more accurate? I get that he doesn't look like a few hundred meters, in every panel we see he's like 1km+, but he's inconsistent. It's hard to assume that random building of yours has the same 13 storey size as the one you use to scale his size.

Honestly, as much as I think the official statement sucks, I can't just throw away how inconsistent he is, and how hard it is to choose a method that relies on buildings.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Why does artwork, which can vary depending on perspective and artistic embellishments, matter more to you than canonically stated information?

Are you arguing that Beefcake has a different canonical height to what has been supplied to us in the databook?

I feel like if we're going to go anywhere from here, we need to agree on the fundamentals. What do you think the accurate figure is for Beefcake's height? Once we can agree on what that should be, we can see where we stand.

Yes I'm arguing that the databooks take the backstage to what is shown in the manga due to the enormous disparity

This is not some never before done thing as many verses do this (Think Marvel or DC)

Primary canon will always be above secondary canon so I don't see why your so anal about using the secondary canon size

 

[Damage3245]

Yes I'm arguing that the databooks take the backstage to what is shown in the manga due to the enormous disparity

This is not some never before done thing as well

Primary canon will always be above secondary canon so I don't see why your so anal about using the canon size

So what is the correct figure for Beefcake's height, do you think?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

So what is the correct figure for Beefcake's height, do you think?

We don't know

But were not focusing on Beefcake's height we're focusing on the giant hole he made

 

[Damage3245]

We don't know

But were not focusing on Beefcake's height we're focusing on the giant hole he made

So I'm saying "Beefcake's height is 270 m, let's use that", and you're saying "Beefcake's height isn't 270 m... We don't know what it is, but it isn't 270 m..."

I'd argue that to assert that Beefcake's height isn't 270 meters requires you to make your own assumptions. You're assuming the height of other objects in the panels and comparing them to Beefcake to argue against the stated height. If you're going to argue that it is a fact that Beefcake's height isn't 270 m, then you have to know what his actual height is.

It's also true that characters are never going to be perfectly consistent across all shots, but that doesn't mean we can't use characters for pixelscaling.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It's also true that characters are never going to be perfectly consistent across all shots, but that doesn't mean we can't use characters for pixelscaling.

"not perfectly consistent" he goes from like large building sized to goddamn godzilla earth

 

[Damage3245]

"not perfectly consistent" he goes from like large building sized to goddamn godzilla earth

Yes, so that means we just ignore the panels where he is drawn incorrectly. It hasn't been proven that the crater panel is one of those images.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

So I'm saying "Beefcake's height is 270 m, let's use that", and you're saying "Beefcake's height isn't 270 m... We don't know what it is, but it isn't 270 m..."

I'd argue that to assert that Beefcake's height isn't 270 meters requires you to make your own assumptions. You're assuming the height of other objects in the panels and comparing them to Beefcake to argue against the stated height. If you're going to argue that it is a fact that Beefcake's height isn't 270 m, then you have to know what his actual height is.

Assuming is a strong word considering we have verifiable average's for the objects he's standing by

A simple comparison using said objects disproves his stated size in nearly every panel

Also no, I don't have to know or think I know his height in order to call his stated height bullshit, It's literally just as simple as looking how he compares to other object near him and thinking "Yeah that's bigger than 270 meters"

It's also true that characters are never going to be perfectly consistent across all shots, but that doesn't mean we can't use characters for pixelscaling.

No it doesn't but when said characters height results in all the objects around him being way smaller then what they usually are then that's a good sign to use something else

Yes, so that means we just ignore the panels where he is drawn incorrectly. It hasn't been proven that the crater panel is one of those images.

It quite literally all but has been proven that this panel is one where he is drawn incorrectly

He literally steps on skyscrapers in said panel

 

[Recon1511]

I mean this perfectly encapsulates the issue with using Beefcake size for anything, in one panel his entire hand can rest on top of a building and in the other that building isn't even as big as his pinky finger

 

[Damage3245]

@Recon1511 So, again, we ignore those panels where Beefcake's size is depicted incorrectly and we just use the crater one. Twice Beefcake is drawn to be of comparable size to the crater.

There's no panel where he is a vastly different size to the crater.


EDIT: Where the hell were all these people concerned with visuals when I was debating against Bleach.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The very basis of this reasoning is pretty non credible, and I’m sure you should agree as well to at least some degree as well
beefcake has a ridiculously massive margin of error with his size, so there is absolutely no reason why we should be relying on his size when it is unreliable
this is literally just saying “well his size was complete bullshit every other time but this MUST be the panel where he got it right, right? Wrong, the chances of beefcake actually being the right size in that panel is nonexistent and I’m sure you can understand that
if we have literally anything other than Beefcake to use, and we do, we will use it.

 

[Ped2018]

Felt the need to bump this