One Punch Man upgrades

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This is a staff discussion thread. Please do not comment if you are not a member of the staff.

So, some things have been brough up about the recent episode of One Punch Man.

First of all, we were given an actual timeframe for the kick to the moon and jump back, which would increase Saitama's speed by a pretty significant amount. However, people have been arguing whether this counts as cinematic time or not, or if it's an outlier. However, this is the first feat of its kind, nothing in the anime has discounted it, and it would only scale to Boros and Garou. So I would like to know what others think.

Second, Boros' dialogue is changed from his fight with Saitama in the manga. In the manga, Boros only threatens to wipe out Saitama and the surface of the planet, whereas in the anime, he now makes it clear that he plans to destroy the planet entirely. I will also not that Boros' attack's properly translated name is supposed to be along the lines of "star collapsing roar cannon", simply because I don't want to go by what the attack was called and simply what Boros said the attack was going to do.

Since the regular thread that brought these points up has become rather crowded, I would like to know what the rest of the staff makes of this.

For those who haven't yet seen the episode, here it is. Obviously the feats in question are near the end.

 

[The_Everlasting]

1. Considering how we can now have a timeframe for the feat, and it scales to so few characters (Thus not making it an outlier), I think the anime moon kick/jump can be accepted.

2. Now this one I still need to think over.

 

[DontTalk]

1. If this was a general statement than it has to be considered. That aside I will have to think about it.

2. Manga canon > anime canon. So I wouldn't take that statement.

 

[The_Everlasting]

2. Not always. Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill and Neon Genesis Evangelion have the anime canon as the primary canon. Obviously this is a different matter, but we can't just disregard everything from the anime simply because it wasn't in the manga. Especially since, IIRC, ONE is directly involved with the OPM anime.

 

[KamiYasha]

1- I'm against the cinematic time, usually is inaccurate.

2- I will prefer to avoid the whole anime stuff like dialogues and stuff. I will prefer to stay with the most canon (ONE or Murata's Manga)

3- Also, i will like to see Saitama's page locked... I do not trust new users who will come (possibly) after seeing this episode... Like a young padawan said long ago: The wank is strong in this one.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Kami

The thing is, there's absolutely no set definition on what counts as cinematic timing. We may or may not be able to determine if this scene used cinematic timing, but we cannot remotely tell what degree they used it to.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Okay, so this is just a general question, but for those who have actually watched the episode, could you tell me why this particular situation seems to be cinematic time? Throughout the fight scene, there are repeatedly implemented slowed down scenes added so you can see Boros and Saitama fighting. One of these is quite literally right before the kick. Right as Boros' leg hits Saitama in the gut, the episode slows down for dramatic effect, and when it returns to normal, Saitama shoots up into the sky and hits the moon.

What is there to suggest that any of this was sped up, when moments in the same fight had just before been repeatedly slowed down?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also, what's this mentality that "Manga is now primary canon Anime is non canon"? Murata and ONE were directly involved with the series.

Here's a quote from series director Shingo Natsume.

"Tomohiro Suzuki is doing the script and the series composition. The author of the original manga, ONE, as well as Murata-Sensei sat in our production meetings. They shared their views from a manga standpoint and we shared ours and reworked the series composition as well as what volumes featured. They gave us a lot of input and their participation was very helpful."

That's far more involvement than someone like Toriyama had in Kai, which we now consider usable for canon things in DBZ from a few statements from creators and flashbacks. If the direct involvement of both the author of the original webcomic and the illustrator of the manga aren't enough to allow it to be considered part of the canon, I have no idea why Kai is.

 

[Sheoth]

Isn't the manga an adaptation of the webcomic, and the anime is an adaptation of the manga...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Isn't the manga an adaptation of the webcomic, and the anime is an adaptation of the manga...

ONE is the author of the webcomic. Murata worked with ONE to make the manga. Murata and ONE both worked with Madhouse to make the anime.

 

[KamiYasha]

And...aside from statements like Planet busting or Planet Surface busting...

Can we stay with the calculation of Multi-Continent?

IMHO seems better to me.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

As for the planet busting statement, I would like to point out that this is possibly more accurate to the original webcomic than the manga's surface statement. In the webcomic, Boros doesn't say he's going to wipe out the planet's surface. He just says, "I'll wipe you off the surface of the earth!", which is just another phrase for killing someone, before firing his "Planet Buster Roar Cannon/Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon". It's possible the initial misinterpretation was actually on Murata's part in thinking that to mean Boros was going to wipe out the surface of the earth, which would make the anime's intention more accurate. Just a thought, but a possibility, nonetheless.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

And...aside from statements like Planet busting or Planet Surface busting...
Can we stay with the calculation of Multi-Continent?

IMHO seems better to me.

I don't think it's right to completely discount statements, honestly.

We didn't deny Beerus and Goku's universal feat because it never actually happened. The intention was made clear.

 

[Sheoth]

I believe it could very well have been either Planet busting, or "surface" busting.

I think the best course of action would be to put Multi-Continent level, possibly/likely planet level.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I believe it could very well have been either Planet busting, or "surface" busting.
I think the best course of action would be to put Multi-Continent level, possibly/likely planet level.

I would be fine with "At least Multi-Continent level, likely Planet level", honestly. I just don't want these feats to be completely ignored because "lol non canon", even though nothing actually states that.

As for the moon kick speed, I would like some more input on that, as well, as nobody has answered my question of why it should be considered cinematic time.

 

[DontTalk]

I am not saying to deny everything that happened in the anime, BUT in this case we have the same scene happening differently in anime and manga. In this case manga should take precedents in my opinion.

 

[Sheoth]

Well if I recall from watching the episode, the kick sent him to the moon around 1 second or so. However, the jump back took a tad longer. Would anyone really get a significant upgrade from this?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I am not saying to deny everything that happened in the anime, BUT in this case we have the same scene happening differently in anime and manga. In this case manga should take precedents in my opinion.

Nothing really happened differently, though. Boros simply said something different. Also, as I said earlier, it's highly possible the original misinterpretation was by Murata, whereas this is a more accurate correction. It is the more recent piece of media that was worked on under the supervision of the creator of the original intellectual property, after all.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well if I recall from watching the episode, the kick sent him to the moon around 1 second or so. However, the jump back took a tad longer. Would anyone really get a significant upgrade from this?

Saitama, Boros, and Monster Garou. Nobody else.

However, another problem of saying the kick is cinematic time is you're assuming the jump back was real time whereas the kick wasn't for...no real reason. The kick was during a fight where moments were repeatedly slowed down to show shots of the fight, whereas the jump lingered on the moon and Boros to show us both the crater and let us know Boros' thoughts.

 

[Sheoth]

Well I am fine personally with the whole planet busting ordeal. But I will wait for more input from the staff before saying anything else ably the cinematic time.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Alright. Appreciate your input.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Now that I've given it thought, I support Planet Level Boros/Garou/Saitama, given the involvement of ONE in the making of the OPM anime.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I have no qualms with this, though i'd rather we keep the Multi-continent calc but put something like "likely Planet level" after.

• Shrugs* Well whatever works the best is fine with me either way, tbh.

 

[Sheoth]

Just in case I wasn't clear earlier, I am perfectly fine with either Planet level Boros or likely planet level Boros.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Just in case I wasn't clear earlier, I am perfectly fine with either Planet level Boros or likely planet level Boros.

Same here. Weather we go with at least High 6-A, likely 5-B or just 5-B Boros and such, i'm fine with either one.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

While I obviously want to wait for more input before changing anything, I'd like to ask something else.

Since several people already seem to be fine with 5-B Boros, I'd like to ask about the speed feat, since fewer people have been talking about that one. The speed of the kick that sent Saitama to the moon would be somewhere within the relativistic+ to FTL range, I believe (it takes less than two seconds for him to hit the moon). I have already given my opinion on this, and made it clear I don't believe this is cinematic time, as in the very same fight, the combatants and action are repeatedly slowed down so you can see what's happening. This even happens the moment right before the kick, and when it returns to normal speed, Saitama flies up and hits the moon. What does everyone else think about this?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Supported, as, from what you said, cinematic time is not really an excuse. Can you do a specific estimation? That'd help fully decide the speed.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm in agreement with this, though it'd be nice to see what the actual speed of that kick was...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Here is the fight. Boros launches Saitama at 4:30. Using a stopwatch, it took Saitama approximately 1.9 to 2 seconds to hit the moon.

 

[The_Everlasting]

So Relativistic+, pretty neat.

Still supporting the upgrade btw.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Same here.

 

[LordAizenSama]

hmm reading the points made here I've changed my mind, and support both upgrades in the OP. also I think it would just make more sense for someone like Boros to be a planet buster.

 

[DontTalk]

Eh, the launching to the moon wouldn´t be a speed feat, as none of them has to be capable of moving as fast as they can kick something to the moon (similar to how one can not run as fast as one can kick a ball).

Saitama jumping back would be the speed feat and it would only scale to him.

That aside I am still uncertain about the conventions about cinematic time and everything, so I would want to wait a bit on that to get input from some other people.


About the statement. Let me ask something: Was the manga of murata done in accordance to talks with One or did he do scenarios independently?

I ask because a production studio has a lot more members. If One was involved in both works I still think that manga would take precedence, because the manga is less influenced with its two people working on it, when compared to the staff of anime production with dozen of people that have a lot more influence.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

hmm reading the points made here I've changed my mind, and support both upgrades in the OP. also I think it would just make more sense for someone like Boros to be a planet buster.

A Multi-Continent level planet conquering alien overlord who's travelled the known universe does seem kinda weird.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Eh, the launching to the moon wouldn´t be a speed feat, as none of them has to be capable of moving as fast as they can kick something to the moon (similar to how one can not run as fast as one can kick a ball).
Saitama jumping back would be the speed feat and it would only scale to him.

That aside I am still uncertain about the conventions about cinematic time and everything, so I would want to wait a bit on that to get input from some other people.


About the statement. Let me ask something: Was the manga of murata done in accordance to talks with One or did he do scenarios independently?

I ask because a production studio has a lot more members. If One was involved in both works I still think that manga would take precedence, because the manga is less influenced with its two people working on it, when compared to the staff of anime production with dozen of people that have a lot more influence.

Respectfully disagree completely on that first point. Boros did this during his Meteoric Burst, and during said technique, he repeatedly proved himself to be capable of striking Saitama, launching him away, and rushing fast enough to get behind him, again. In fact, it's what leads into the kick, as well. Boros and Saitama are fighting in the air, Boros slams Saitama towards the ground, rushes to the ground before Saitama makes contact with it, and kicks him back up into the moon.

No idea on the manga front. I know it's just an adaptation of the webcomic, but I don't know if the added scenarios were done by Murata alone or if ONE actually wrote out each new individual scenario and piece of dialogue, as well.

That said, I've already brought up to point about this possibly being more accurate to the original intent of the webcomic, as there was nothing about "wiping out the planet's surface" until the manga. In the webcomic, Boros basically just told Saitama he was going to kill him and then fired the "Planet Destroying Roar Cannon/Star Collapsing Roaring Cannon".

 

[DontTalk]

"Respectfully disagree completely on that first point. Boros did this during his Meteoric Burst, and during said technique, he repeatedly proved himself to be capable of striking Saitama, launching him away, and rushing fast enough to get behind him, again."

All this attacks were weaker, made saitama fly less distance, with slower speed. I don't see how that relates to that particular instance.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"Respectfully disagree completely on that first point. Boros did this during his Meteoric Burst, and during said technique, he repeatedly proved himself to be capable of striking Saitama, launching him away, and rushing fast enough to get behind him, again."
All this attacks were weaker, made saitama fly less distance, with slower speed. I don't see how that relates to that particular instance.

Yes, he flew less distance, because Boros repeatedly got behind him and knocked him in different directions before he stopped moving. The only time he didn't stop Saitama during the combo was when he knocked him upwards, which sent him into the moon.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, we can disagree on that interpretation, as I don´t see any evidence for those attacks being that fast.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Respectfully disagreed, as I see no reason not to believe his other attacks were of similar speed, especially since he always stopped Saitama from colliding with something that would halt his movement. However, as you said, it's a different interpretation.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we agreed to use a composite canon for OPM due to ONE being so heavily involved with the production of all franchises connected to it, so I see no problem with "Likely Planet level".

And I think that launching a small ball swifter than you can run with your arm or foot does not translate into this situation, as hitting somebody with an arm would require displacing a greater amount of mass than the arm itself contains, so the speed feat should intuitively be legitimate. On the other hand, DontTalk is much better than I am at calculations, so if he has valid mathematical reasons to disagree, I will obviously change my mind.

The problem is the cinematic time issue. Even though none was evident in this instance, and as such I then personally don't have a problem with allowing it, I am uncertain if Lord Kavpeny would accept it, as the regular members would likely strictly see it as that if we allow it in one instance we should allow it in all, and "eat us alive" as he put it.

I also agree that we should probably lock the Saitama page afterwards.