Pac-Man Speed Upgrade and Size Manipulation Tier

[Tonygameman]

Okay, this may get a little bit more controversial than the last time, but it has struck my mind for a while, so I'm starting this thread to see if you are fine with that.

In Pac-Man Geo (a closed 2020 mobile game where mazes were based on actual real-life locations), there's a speed feat in one of the intermissions where Pac-Man and Blinky chases each other around the Earth, circling it twice at a equal speed before the latter got stuck and sent flying off. Propellus has calculated this two days ago and after a correction, Antvasima gave his approval to use it through Dalesean's comment.

This one is why I wrote the starting part above; in a next cutscene right after the feat, Blinky arrives close to the Earth, which turns around to reveal Pac-Man who has grown to the size of a planet itself. Obviously, no other character can scale to this as far as I know (Blinky even turned blue upon a realization), so this is a exclusive addition only for Pac-Man himself.

In total, the game/classic canon cast's overall speed should be upgraded to Sub-Relativistic and Pac-Man may get a separate tier in his base key and additional clarification for Large Size (Type 5) through size manipulation on a power-up tabber, unless we assume he did this without using any of them as simply eating food makes him grow in size before Blinky turned blue, which could make it part of his base tabber instead: "Up to 5-B/Planet level (Class Y for LS) with Reality Warping/Toon Force"

Votes: (staff members will be bolded)

• Speed:
  • Agree: 9 (Mephistus, Propellus, StretchSebe, Vzearr, ZespeonGalaxy, ShakeResounding, Accelerated_Evolution, Nierre, ZawierJ)
  • Disagree: 0
  • Neutral: 0
• New Toon Force Tier on Base/Size Manipulation Upgrade:
  • Agree: 8 (Mephistus, StretchSebe, Vzearr, ZespeonGalaxy, ShakeResounding, Accelerated_Evolution, Nierre, ZawierJ)
  • Disagree: 0
  • Neutral: 1 (Propellus)

 

[Mephistus]

I agree.

Could we calculate the KE for him opening his maw for 5-A?

 

[SamanPatou]

I'm not sure, is this supported whatsoever by other feats?

Because from what I see these aren't even the main gameplay of the game, but rather some minigames or such, right?
Also the characters aren't meant to be in scale, I believe, otherwise they'd be continent-sized by default.

 

[Propellus]

Considering I was the one who calculated the speed feat, sure. I'm not really too sure about him consuming the Earth, so I'll just be neutral on that

 

[StretchSebe]

Considering I was the one who calculated the speed feat, sure. I'm not really too sure about him consuming the Earth, so I'll just be neutral on that

Agree with speed, but yeah: It doesn't seem like he consumed the earth, but was, but was just hiding behind it.

Still, being that large a size warrants at least 5-C, close to 5-C+ on the Large Size Calculations page (diameter of earth being between 5-C: 7.54644×10^6 m, and 5-C+: 1.34412e+7 m, at 1.2756e+7 meters).

I'm not sure, is this supported whatsoever by other feats?

Because from what I see these aren't even the main gameplay of the game, but rather some minigames or such, right?
Also the characters aren't meant to be in scale, I believe, otherwise they'd be continent-sized by default.

There's stuff from the games to support Tier 5 or higher Pacman. For Tier 5, two of the three of the main antagonists from the 3D Pac-Man World games attempt to take over, or threaten to destroy 'Pac Land' with such a power level (which was later renamed to Pac World to be more specific: The whole planet). Good example being Spooky from Pac-Man World 2 attempting to do so after being released from sealing, threatening to do so with his immense magic (at minimum able to create a meteor shower, and create a storm upon being released from sealing with magic). Pac-Man needed the power of the 5 Golden Fruit to defeat, and re-seal Spooky.

For higher, Erwin from 3 tried siphoning energy from the separate spectral realm in order to take over Pac World. It wasn't that straightforward though, because apparently this was messing with the space-time continuum, and the 'paradox' it would have created would have destroyed the universe as explained by Orson, the main antagonist of the first Pac-Man World. Orson also tried to take over Pac-Land obviously, but not nearly to the degree of danger that his following antagonists had threatened to. Pac-Man cosmology when?

As for actual space-time stuff in the series for even higher... I'm not going to pretend I know what happened in Pac-Man: Adventures in time, but supposedly a lot of space-time shenanigans caused by the main antagonist physically shattering something across space and time. Who Pac-Man dealt with, and beat said antagonist eventually in spite of.

 

[Propellus]

Considering I was the one who calculated the speed feat, sure. I'm not really too sure about him consuming the Earth, so I'll just be neutral on that

And by the way, I wasn't neutral on the whole thread, only about the planet feat. I still agree with the new speed feat

 

[StretchSebe]

And by the way, I wasn't neutral on the whole thread, only about the planet feat. I still agree with the new speed feat

On a similar note, besides agreeing with speed, I think that I'd also agree with large size being Tier 5: Just that it would be a bit lower at 5-C, closer to 5-C+ in following the Large Size Calculations page guidelines for characters heights translating to tier

 

[Vzearr]

Agree with the OP. Although I do have a small concern, is there any proof as to why this wouldn't be casted as an outlier ?

 

[StretchSebe]

Agree with the OP. Although I do have a small concern, is there any proof as to why this wouldn't be casted as an outlier ?

According to his profile, he has 'Massively Hypersonic reaction speeds.' Which in justification actually states that he 'Can outrun and keep up with Ms. Pac-Man, who can dodge lightning bolts (and on her profile, also dodge lasers). Also because he can dodge, not just react to, asteroids. I think the MH speed being only 'reaction' speed might be an error since there are two instances of him being MH: Scaling to and being faster than a character who can dodge lightning, and he himself being able to easily dodge asteroids (which is at minimum High Hypersonic+). Also, to take some stuff from the World games again, he's been shown to move relative to lasers as well (not faster, or that close to, but I think just eyeballing it enough for sub-relativistic. Could be wrong on such a rough estimation though).

Basically, Sub-Relativistic would only be about a tier above his current speed, and doesn't seem far off from what is actually considered, and what further could be considered from the games with regard to lasers and stuff.

 

[Vzearr]

According to his profile, he has 'Massively Hypersonic reaction speeds.' Which in justification actually states that he 'Can outrun and keep up with Ms. Pac-Man, who can dodge lightning bolts (and on her profile, also dodge lasers). Also because he can dodge, not just react to, asteroids. I think the MH speed being only 'reaction' speed might be an error since there are two instances of him being MH: Scaling to and being faster than a character who can dodge lightning, and he himself being able to easily dodge asteroids (which is at minimum High Hypersonic+). Also, to take some stuff from the World games again, he's been shown to move relative to lasers as well (not faster, or that close to, but I think just eyeballing it enough for sub-relativistic. Could be wrong on such a rough estimation though).

Basically, Sub-Relativistic would only be about a tier above his current speed, and doesn't seem far off from what is actually considered, and what further could be considered from the games with regard to lasers and stuff.

Well then I have no problem with the upgrade. Fully agree with the OP.

 

[Mephistus]

Agree with speed, but yeah: It doesn't seem like he consumed the earth, but was, but was just hiding behind it.

Hmm...you see a blue void where a pie shaped section of the Earth should be at behind him though when he opens his mouth. There's this though if we want to upscale and square cube law with his proportional body weight of 120 lbs/3 feet and apply Kinetic Energy?

The diameter of the earth through the poles is 41717290 feet, going by the square cube law here;

((41717290/3)^3) x 120 = 3.22675318 x 10^23 lbs for his form.

1.31668 x 10^25 lbs is the mass of the Earth.

 

[Tonygameman]

Pretty funnily, a comment on that tweet has another height chart from Pac-Man Party's concept art (around 165 cm; 5'5" feet tall), which CuteAnimeNeko used for a 8-A calculation (taller than a plumber, robot and hedgehog).

 

[Tonygameman]

Bump (pretty much covers from claims above, even maybe combat-wise).

 

[StretchSebe]

Bump (pretty much covers from claims above, even maybe combat-wise).

Everybody gangster until the Pacman starts firing a laser from his mouth even while closing it.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Also I agree with all.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Can't wait for Pac-Man World 2 Remastered.

I agree with both the Sub-Rel upgrade and a separate ability/Tier listing for Planet Pac.

 

[Tonygameman]

Bump.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I agree

Bump (pretty much covers from claims above, even maybe combat-wise).

Is this in his profile?

 

[Tonygameman]

Is this in his profile?

As an ability in a power-up/equipment tabber, yes.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Can we add the upgrades or we need more votes?

 

[Tonygameman]

Most of the votes are in for an agreement, but we need more staff members to join in before we could start a grace period.

 

[Tonygameman]

Bump.

 

[Nierre]

Agree with Speed.

I think up to 5-B with his Base Key is fine IMO, since there's already a precedent (in the same game, mind you), that eating makes him increase in size.

 

[Propellus]

Have any of you tried calcing his Size Manipulation? It may not actually be 5-B as expected

 

[Tonygameman]

Have any of you tried calcing his Size Manipulation? It may not actually be 5-B as expected

Just managed to publish a request for the thread.

 

[Tonygameman]

Bump.

 

[Tonygameman]

Pac-Bumping.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Bump

 

[Tonygameman]

Bump.

 

[ZawierJ]

It looks good. I agree with OP.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Bump?

Also, something that i just thought now, during the "Pac-Man becames Earth" feat, he doesn´t simple grows to the size of the Earth, he literally becomes the Earth and then makes it disappear, with the only thing resting being his body

Thinking that way, wouldn´t make sense if he got "Planet level via Reality Warping/Toon Force" instead of "Planet level via Size Manipulation"?

 

[Propellus]

Bump?

Also, something that i just thought now, during the "Pac-Man becames Earth" feat, he doesn´t simple grows to the size of the Earth, he literally becomes the Earth and then makes it disappear, with the only thing resting being his body

Thinking that way, wouldn´t make sense if he got "Planet level via Reality Warping/Toon Force" instead of "Planet level via Size Manipulation"?

Oh yeah, Reality Warping does make more sense in this case.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Another thing: We will only apply the Sub-Relativistic feat to their Reaction Speed, right?

 

[Propellus]

Another thing: We will only apply the Sub-Relativistic feat to their Reaction Speed, right?

It scales in all categories considering that Pac-Man can react to his own movements in most of his games

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

It scales in all categories considering that Pac-Man can react to his own movements in most of his games

Did he ever moved that fast in any game? In the feat used here he needed to use Size Manipulation to do that, which would just scales to his Reaction and Combat speed

 

[Propellus]

Did he ever moved that fast in any game? In the feat used here he needed to use Size Manipulation to do that, which would just scales to his Reaction and Combat speed

That's only for when he becomes Earth himself where that would apply, him running around the Earth along with Blinky during the speed feat were still in their normal sizes. Even then, you could say he can keep up with his wife that can dodge lightning.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

That's only for when he becomes Earth himself where that would apply, him running around the Earth along with Blinky during the speed feat were still in their normal sizes.

Pac-Man ins't even 2 meters tall, in the video he is clearly above his conventional size

Even then, you could say he can keep up with his wife that can dodge lightning.

This is already on his profile

 

[Propellus]

Pac-Man ins't even 2 meters tall, in the video he is clearly above his conventional size

He doesn't have any set of size that's confirmed at all, and nothing else seems to support them being much bigger than they are when they were circling around the Earth.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

He doesn't have any set of size that's confirmed at all

Yes, but he was never showed that tall in any game

and nothing else seems to support them being much bigger than they are when they were circling around the Earth.

The video itself shows that they are far taller than they normally are, you just need to compare their size to the size of Earth

 

[Propellus]

Yes, but he was never showed that tall in any game

Still no confirmation of his supposed height.

The video itself shows that they are far taller than they normally are, you just need to compare their size to the size of Earth

They are still much smaller than the earth over there as I'm not seeing any evidence of a growth spurt they have over there that's supposed. As this argument rather stems more around the game design of the cutscene than actual intent