Phoenix force (Fox) revisions.

[BunBun]

As we know, the Phoenix Force is 5-A, up to 3-A via creation hax.

However, I think it should be At least 5-A, up to 3-B , likely far higher with creation. The Phoenix Force may not have directly created the entire universe, it has been shown to give life to the stars it passes over.

It's also described as intergalactic, capable of easily creating or destroying planets and anything it encounters. Jean Grey is also described as the most powerful being in the entire universe.

3-B rating seems more reliable than 3-A, as there are no feats showing the Phoenix Force creating the entire universe. Its power is more focused on giving life to planets (galaxies) much like the Celestials from MCU.

 

[LMalone22]

I completely agree about the mostpowerfull being in the galaxy, giving life to the universe seems to be going too far. The phoenix force would probably rather destroy existing planets and create new ones than create the entire universe at once. So being The most powerful being in the galaxy makes the most sense

 

[Hixkaryana]

Simon Kinberg stated that the Phoenix Force was "intergalactic" and that "a mutant [Jean] was imbued by the greatest force in the whole world [Universe]". In another interview, he confirms this by saying "Jean’s journey over the span of the Dark Phoenix movie is one where she becomes the most powerful creature in the entire universe".
I don't think there's any reason to underestimate Vuk's statement here. I disagree.

 

[BunBun]

I completely agree about the mostpowerfull being in the galaxy, giving life to the universe seems to be going too far. The phoenix force would probably rather destroy existing planets and create new ones than create the entire universe at once. So being The most powerful being in the galaxy makes the most sense

Thank you!

 

[RoTt35]

Disagree due to @Hixkaryana's reasons. I don't see how a statement from an advanced alien race that has observed and studied the Phoenix Force across the universe for years wouldn't be reliable

 

[BunBun]

Disagree due to @Hixkaryana's reasons. I don't see how a statement from an advanced alien race that has observed and studied the Phoenix Force across the universe for years wouldn't be reliable

Oh great! The Phoenix Force is indeed a highly powerful entity, it would likely be at least 3-C rather than 4-C, given that it is primarily shown as intergalactic in nature, capable of creating and destroying planets, but not necessarily the entire universe. Jean Grey, when bonded with the Phoenix Force, becomes the most powerful but is still not on a 3-A. In the Fox X-Men cinematic universe, no other being displays the same level of planetary-scale destruction, which is why the Phoenix Force being the most powerful isn't surprising. However, it is important to note that while the Phoenix Force has the power to create and destroy planets, this doesn't equate to the level of creation required to be 3-A, as it only demonstrates the power to give life to random planets.

 

[BunBun]

Disagree due to @Hixkaryana's reasons. I don't see how a statement from an advanced alien race that has observed and studied the Phoenix Force across the universe for years wouldn't be reliable

But on the Phoenix's profile, the statements used are from this alien race.

 

[Hixkaryana]

But on the Phoenix's profile, the statements used are from this alien race.

That’s why they should be maintained.

 

[Hixkaryana]

Oh great! The Phoenix Force is indeed a highly powerful entity, it would likely be at least 3-C rather than 4-C, given that it is primarily shown as intergalactic in nature, capable of creating and destroying planets, but not necessarily the entire universe. Jean Grey, when bonded with the Phoenix Force, becomes the most powerful but is still not on a 3-A. In the Fox X-Men cinematic universe, no other being displays the same level of planetary-scale destruction, which is why the Phoenix Force being the most powerful isn't surprising. However, it is important to note that while the Phoenix Force has the power to create and destroy planets, this doesn't equate to the level of creation required to be 3-A, as it only demonstrates the power to give life to random planets.

It’s capable of creating planets intergalactically, this combined with Vuk’s statement of giving birth to the Universe likely means that the Phoenix Force’s power expands on the infinite number of galaxies that make up the Universe. So the PF is at the very least 3-B, and very likely to stay 3-A.

 

[BunBun]

It’s capable of creating planets intergalactically, this combined with Vuk’s statement of giving birth to the Universe likely means that the Phoenix Force’s power expands on the infinite number of galaxies that make up the Universe. So the PF is at the very least 3-B, and very likely to stay 3-A.

In this case, the Phoenix is similar to the MCU Celestials in creating galaxies for existence, but still not the entire universe.So 3-B is fair enough, but 3-A is likely too high for the Phoenix.

 

[Hixkaryana]

In this case, the Phoenix is similar to the MCU Celestials in creating galaxies for existence, but still not the entire universe.So 3-B is fair enough, but 3-A is likely too high for the Phoenix.

3-A doesn't seem far-fetched to me but we'll see what other people think.

 

[FentyBeauty]

yea i dont rlly see a problem with vuk’s statement and phoenix’s 3-A rating

 

[DivineCreator389]

I agree with BunBun.There’s limited information about the Phoenix Force, as it primarily operates on an intergalactic level rather than a universe level. At least 3-C or 3-B seems more accurate than 3-A, as it only shows to give life to planets it passes over, rather than expanding its power across the entire universe.As Bun mentioned, this case is similar to the Celestials (MCU). And I only disagree with Jean Grey is just the greatest force in the galaxy, she should be the most powerful creature in the universe.

 

[RoTt35]

What's up with these replies that seem generated with AI. The arguments make no sense, being the spark that gave life to the universe is simply 3-A, you want to rank the feat at 4-A/3-C/3-B (decide on a tier) just because. Its destruction feats being at least 5-B aren't antifeats since the PF is only 3-A via Creation and doesn't scale to its other stats, and giving life to the planets is via Transmutation not Creation

 

[Hixkaryana]

This thread is basically deciding whether or not we view Vuk's statement as reliable..that's about it.

 

[LMalone22]

I'm quite confused. In the first sentence she stated that the phoenix force gave life to the universe, so that might be plausible. But in the next sentence, she states that the power of the phoenix force can create stars and destroy them. and can evolve to become the most powerful thing in the galaxy. So, if the first statement is reliable, why is she later identified as the most powerful thing in the galaxy instead of using the word universe?

 

[Hixkaryana]

I'm quite confused. In the first sentence she stated that the phoenix force gave life to the universe, so that might be plausible. But in the next sentence, she states that the power of the phoenix force can create stars and destroy them. and can evolve to become the most powerful thing in the galaxy. So, if the first statement is reliable, why is she later identified as the most powerful thing in the galaxy instead of using the word universe?

Because she's not gonna repeat "It created this universe". She wants to emphasize on all the things contained in the Universe the PF created.

 

[LMalone22]

Because she's not gonna repeat "It created this universe". She wants to emphasize on all the things contained in the Universe the PF created.

In the universe there are billions of galaxies, so saying that To evolve into the greatest power in the galaxy is not even close to the universe

 

[Hixkaryana]

In the universe there are billions of galaxies, so saying that To evolve into the greatest power in the galaxy is not even close to the universe

You're just reaching atp these are just semantics, it would've been problematic if she said "The Phoenix Force's most impressive action was create all the stars in the galaxy" but did she say that? No. Saying that the PF can create and destroy stars as well as worlds doesn't invalidate it creating the Universe.

 

[FentyBeauty]

I'm quite confused. In the first sentence she stated that the phoenix force gave life to the universe, so that might be plausible. But in the next sentence, she states that the power of the phoenix force can create stars and destroy them. and can evolve to become the most powerful thing in the galaxy. So, if the first statement is reliable, why is she later identified as the most powerful thing in the galaxy instead of using the word universe?

being stated to be most powerful thing in the galaxy doesn’t rlly disprove that like if anything that just means it’s recognized as more powerful than anything known in that galaxy so far, not that it cant be higher than ‘galaxy level’ bc its only the most powerful thing in a galaxy if thats what ur saying

and hixkaryana also mentioned the statement of phoenix being the greatest creature in the entire universe too so

 

[LMalone22]

If that statement is convincing enough then I don't dispute it, I'm just confused. With the statement that "evolve greatest power in the galaxy" and yes, she might be bigger than the galaxy to the universe, you should change it to possibly 3-A with creation

 

[FentyBeauty]

being stated to be most powerful thing in the galaxy doesn’t rlly disprove that like if anything that just means it’s recognized as more powerful than anything known in that galaxy so far, not that it cant be higher than ‘galaxy level’ bc its only the most powerful thing in a galaxy if thats what ur saying

omg help i dont even know what im saying

what i mean is that like being the most powerful thing in the galaxy doesn’t disprove phoenix creating the universe and that vuk’s statement wouldn’t be unreliable because being recognized as the most powerful thing in the galaxy would just show that phoenix is more powerful than anything known in the galaxy so it would upscale it from whatevers there or just support the phoenix force being that powerful to create the universe hence why its the most powerful

 

[Hixkaryana]

If that statement is convincing enough then I don't dispute it, I'm just confused. With the statement that "evolve greatest power in the galaxy" and yes, she might be bigger than the galaxy to the universe, you should change it to possibly 3-A with creation

Two statements and a comic background should be enough to make it an affirmation rather than a hypothesis

 

[LMalone22]

Two statements and a comic background should be enough to make it an affirmation rather than a hypothesis

I've seen many characters say that but never get an upgrade. Despite the likely actions and said character, they are confident that they will live up to their claims. So I think just a statement might not be enough

 

[Hixkaryana]

Then I suppose this CRT has been reduced to the word "Possibly"

 

[FentyBeauty]

I've seen many characters say that but never get an upgrade. Despite the likely actions and said character, they are confident that they will live up to their claims. So I think just a statement might not be enough

maybe bc those characters don’t have any feats or other supporting statements to back up the “most powerful” statement alone or no one in their verse has any other impressive stuff so that statement would just put those characters above whoever is in their verse (if ur talking abt that and not about what vuk said abt phoenix giving life to the universe)

also how is it not enough bc imo i think vuk who got the taste of the phoenix and had been trying to pursue it for lord knows how many years and also knowing that it created the universe would make that statement reliable if she knows what shes dealing with

and like that statement also supported by “greatest creature in the entire universe” and “most powerful force in the galaxy” i think is enough

 

[Hixkaryana]

maybe bc those characters don’t have any feats or other supporting statements to back up the “most powerful” statement alone or no one in their verse has any other impressive stuff so that statement would just put those characters above whoever is in their verse (if ur talking abt that and not about what vuk said abt phoenix giving life to the universe)

also how is it not enough bc imo i think vuk who got the taste of the phoenix and had been trying to pursue it for lord knows how many years and also knowing that it created the universe would make that statement reliable if she knows what shes dealing with

and like that statement also supported by “greatest creature in the entire universe” and “most powerful force in the galaxy” i think is enough

preach sistah

 

[FentyBeauty]

preach sistah

 

[DivineCreator389]

The arguments make no sense, being the spark that gave life to the universe is simply 3-A

Nope. It only gave life to planets as what it showed. Sooo 3-B , likely far higher with creation is make sense.

 

[Hixkaryana]

Nope. It only gave life to planets as what it showed. Sooo 3-B is make sense.

Vuk literally said it was the spark that gave life to the Universe, I swear this isn't complicated

 

[RoTt35]

Nope. It only gave life to planets as what it showed. Sooo 3-B is make sense.

The Phoenix Force gives life to planets via Transmutation, not via Creation which is what's 3-A. Also, are you telling me that creating life on a planet is 3-B, what sense does that make?

 

[DivineCreator389]

Vuk literally said it was the spark that gave life to the Universe, I swear this isn't complicated

The Phoenix Force gives life to planets via Transmutation, not via Creation which is what's 3-A. Also, are you telling me that creating life on a planet is 3-B, what sense does that make?

I understand, but what it showed was just giving life to planets and galaxies instead of creating the universe. So, essentially, giving life to the universe meant just forming galaxies. So At least 3-C , possibly far higher via creation or 3-B , possibly far higher via creation make more sense to me.

 

[LMalone22]

also how is it not enough bc imo i think vuk who got the taste of the phoenix and had been trying to pursue it for lord knows how many years and also knowing that it created the universe would make that statement reliable if she knows what shes dealing with

and like that statement also supported by “greatest creature in the entire universe” and “most powerful force in the galaxy” i think is enough

seems reasonable enough, so then I agree with you

 

[RoTt35]

I understand, but what it showed was just giving life to planets and galaxies instead of creating the universe. So, essentially, giving life to the universe meant just forming galaxies. So At least 3-C , possibly far higher via creation or 3-B , possibly far higher via creation make more sense to me.

It was literally stated to be the spark that gave life to the universe and being the most powerful creature in the entire universe. I absolutely disagree with anything below 3-A as creating the universe is in fact 3-A, I don't see why it's so hard to understand that

 

[DivineCreator389]

It was literally stated to be the spark that gave life to the universe and being the most powerful creature in the entire universe. I absolutely disagree with anything below 3-A as creating the universe is in fact 3-A, I don't see why it's so hard to understand that

Being the most powerful creature isn’t going to make her the creator of the universe. As I said, she gave life to the universe by forming galaxies, like the Celestials. If you disagree, that’s ok , I respect your opinion, this is also my opinion on the Phoenix.

 

[FentyBeauty]

Being the most powerful creature isn’t going to make her the creator of the universe. As I said, she gave life to the universe by forming galaxies, like the Celestials. If you disagree, that’s ok , I respect your opinion, this is also my opinion on the Phoenix.

we’re not saying that the being the most powerful creature makes it the creator, the phoenix being the spark that gave life to the universe is its’ 3-A creation feat which should already be clear enough that it would get 3-A via creation

and also like the most powerful creature in the entire universe statement just supports/backs up the phoenix being the one to create the universe especially from a reliable source

 

[DivineCreator389]

we’re not saying that the being the most powerful creature makes it the creator, the phoenix being the spark that gave life to the universe is its’ 3-A creation feat which should already be clear enough that it would get 3-A via creation

It is not clear ,like what I said:

I understand, but what it showed was just giving life to planets and galaxies instead of creating the universe. So, essentially, giving life to the universe meant just forming galaxies.

Simon Kinberg stated that the Phoenix Force was "intergalactic"

and also like the most powerful creature in the entire universe statement just supports/backs up the phoenix being the one to create the universe especially from a reliable source

Wasn't this already being discussed?:

it is primarily shown as intergalactic in nature, capable of creating and destroying planets, but not necessarily the entire universe.

Jean Grey becomes the most powerful but is still not 3-A. In the Fox X-Men cinematic universe, no other being displays the same level of planetary-scale destruction, which is why the Phoenix Force being the most powerful isn't surprising.

 

[Hixkaryana]

Vuk and only Vuk’s statement was already considered viable to grant 3-A to the Phoenix Force back then so I don’t see why it shouldn’t be now. If it’s Intergalactic it very much could be Universal as well.

 

[LMalone22]

After seeing all arguments I will be neutral on this matter. Because I haven't seen anyone specify whether phoenix force was cause of BigBang

 

[DivineCreator389]

Vuk and only Vuk’s statement was already considered viable to grant 3-A to the Phoenix Force back then so I don’t see why it shouldn’t be now. If it’s Intergalactic it very much could be Universal as well.

And It’s Vuk who showed how the Phoenix gave life to the universe was just forming planets and galaxies. Intergalactic is not the same as the universe, but as you said, it could be Universal. I didn’t disagree with that possibility, which is why I said this:

At least 3-C , possibly far higher via creation or 3-B , possibly far higher via creation make more sense to me.