Possible Slight Bayverse Transformers Downgrade

[WeeklyBattles]

Its been brought to my attention that the current Bayverse Transformers profiles have their lifting strength scaled to The Driller's mass. However, upon further inspection of the reasoning for this, it comes from this boss fight where Optimus only pushes back its much smaller tentacles, he doesnt lift the full weight of the creature or push back against it. In addition, he doesnt lift or push it in the film fight against the same creature either. The rating of Class M itself is fine given other feats in the verse, but the majority of characters have no reason to scale to the Driller in lifting strength.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump

 

[KLOL506]

There are no verse categories on this bro

 

[KLOL506]

@Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @Dark-Carioca @XSOULOFCINDERX @Fastestthingalive50

 

[LordTracer]

Ye, this is fine.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @Dark-Carioca @XSOULOFCINDERX @Fastestthingalive50

thank you for the pings ^-^

 

[HammerStrikes219]

This is reasonable, but we need some other knowledgeable members as well as checking to see if there is any feats that goes against Class M (which is likely).

 

[KLOL506]

This is reasonable, but we need some other knowledgeable members as well as checking to see if there is any feats that goes against Class M (which is likely).

Doubt it does for Megatron, Optimus, Lockdown and the other god-tiers who get stronger over the course of the films. Megatron's submarine feat was utterly casual, and the next best feats are Starscream casually uprooting forest trees near Pennsylvania and tearing apart aircraft like playthings. Larger and more skilled bots can straight up spine-rip other bots or tear them in half.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Doubt it does for Megatron, Optimus, Lockdown and the other god-tiers who get stronger over the course of the films. Megatron's submarine feat was utterly casual, and the next best feats are Starscream casually uprooting forest trees near Pennsylvania and tearing apart aircraft like playthings. Larger and more skilled bots can straight up spine-rip other bots or tear them in half.

Yeah, that is true although I don’t remember if uprooting forest trees and aircraft would count as Class M for Starscream though.

Wait… speaking of the submarine feat, which movie was that from again?

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, that is true although I don’t remember if uprooting forest trees and aircraft would count as Class M for Starscream though.

Starscream was also able to grapple Optimus.

Wait… speaking of the submarine feat, which movie was that from again?

Revenge of the Fallen.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Starscream was also able to grapple Optimus.


Revenge of the Fallen.

Alrighty, but isn’t Optimus technically weigh less than a Class M object? Then again, I suppose we can just scaling lifting strengths of two individuals in a fight anyway.

 

[KLOL506]

Alrighty, but isn’t Optimus technically weigh less than a Class M object?

Completely irrelevant given that powerscaling exists. Why would Optimus's weight be relevant for Megatron's LS?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Completely irrelevant given that powerscaling exists. Why would Optimus's weight be relevant for Megatron's LS?

I was thinking since there are feats that does involve lifting a entire weight of a character usually, but since there is technically a better feat that involves…

Okay, upon double checking the feat for Megatron. He wasn’t exactly shown lifting the submarine, but going through the submarine and destroying it in half.

Welp, that feat I don’t think will count as a LS feat sadly.

 

[KLOL506]

I was thinking since there are feats that does involve lifting a entire weight of a character usually, but since there is technically a better feat that involves…

None of that is relevant here.

Okay, upon double checking the feat for Megatron. He wasn’t exactly shown lifting the submarine, but going through the submarine and destroying it in half.

Welp, that feat I don’t think will count as a LS feat sadly.

He pushed it out of his path. This wasn't just some random tackle. That's LS. A CRT already handled this prior.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

None of that is relevant here.


He pushed it out of his path. This wasn't just some random tackle. That's LS. A CRT already handled this prior.

Yeah, but I not sure if push counts as LS as it looks like Striking Strength I think. Not sure, but one can make the argument that he didn’t lift the entire submarine’s weight when he pushed the submarine while it is underwater.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, but I not sure if push counts as LS as it looks like Striking Strength I think.

Again, this ain't just striking strength, Megatron makes a second action (Barely visible, need a good eye) to move the Submarine out of his way after ramming it first.

And pushes count as LS, in case you didn't know.

Not sure, but one can make the argument that he didn’t lift the entire submarine’s weight when he pushed the submarine while it is underwater.

He sent it flying out into the surface while making it overcome all that water, so that argument's already out the window.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Again, this ain't just striking strength, Megatron makes a second action to move the Submarine out of his way after ramming it first.

And pushes count as LS, in case you didn't know.


He sent it flying out into the surface while making it overcome all that water, so that argument's already out the window.

Fair enough on the pushing part.

The “flying out into the surface” part I will technically disagree as he already give it a push and not actively trying to lift the submarine out of the water though. We can see in the gif that the submarine, after the initial push by Megatron, that Megatron didn’t actively tried to lift it, but the water causing it to rise up as a consequence of the initial push by Megatron and getting destroyed in half too.

Now granted, I also could see this as a “possibly Class M” and not solid Class M in terms of feat wise myself.

 

[KLOL506]

The “flying out into the surface” part I will technically disagree as he already give it a push and not actively trying to lift the submarine out of the water though. We can see in the gif that the submarine after the initial push by Megatron that Megatron didn’t actively tried to lift it, but the water causing it to rise up as a consequence of the initial push by Megatron and getting destroyed in half too.

Now granted, I also could see this as a “possibly Class M” and not solid Class M in terms of feat wise myself.

Submarines don't get pushed up on catastrophic failure like this nor go into 360 degree turns on their way up when violently pushed this way. Water had nothing to do with that, this was all Megatron.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Submarines don't get pushed up on catastrophic failure like this nor go into 360 degree turns on their way up when violently pushed this way. Water had nothing to do with that, this was all Megatron.

And I don’t fully agree with as this is assuming he is actively lifting the entire submarine’s weight when he only pushed some parts of the submarine. Also, Submarine still requires water to propel itself to rise above the water and stuff, but I will digress since this was more of who does scale to Class M anyway.

In any case, there is likely other feats that we are missing aside from the submarine feat anyway.

 

[KLOL506]

And I don’t fully agree with as this is assuming he is actively lifting the entire submarine’s weight when he only pushed some parts of the submarine. Also, Submarine still requires water to propel itself to rise above the water and stuff, but I will digress since this was more of who does scale to Class M anyway.

No. The propelling was working on moving the Submarine forward, not upwards, they literally told the submariners to brace for impact, and Megatron didn't just push part of the submarine away, the entire thing got flipped a full 360 degrees because of him. Only way you could say he scaled to part of the submarine is if he pushed a small separated chunk of it. We don't discount the entire mass of an object with pushing feats like this, ever (Or really, in any kind of pushing feat), regardless of which angle you're pushing from.

Not only that, the kind of spinning force that Megs exerted on the sub would logically tear the sub and its propellors apart before it ever reached the surface.

In any case, there is likely other feats that we are missing aside from the submarine feat anyway.

Don't think we need any more, everything else is just supporting feat aside from the spine rips and the rip-in-half feats of other bots (Which are easily well above Class K due to upscaling from humans by an unquantifiably huge amount), and then there's Optimus being able to rein in the 850-ton Grimlock to heel as well.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

No. The propelling was working on moving the Submarine forward, not upwards, and Megatron didn't just push part of the submarine away, the entire thing got flipped a full 360 degrees because of him. Only way you could say he scaled to part of the submarine is if he pushed a small separated chunk of it. We don't discount the entire mass of an object with pushing feats like this, ever.

https://precollege.oregonstate.edu/...les/cartesian_diver_lacuknos_10-15-20_-dc.pdf

I gonna point out we do have buoyancy which is a upward force helping the submarine to float while it is in the water.

Either way, I am not fully against the feat in question since it seems legit, but have doubts on it being a solid Class M feat by itself.
Fair points on the other feats though

 

[KLOL506]

https://precollege.oregonstate.edu/...les/cartesian_diver_lacuknos_10-15-20_-dc.pdf

I gonna point out we do have buoyancy which is a upward force helping the submarine to float while it is in the water.

Either way, I am not fully against the feat in question since it seems legit, but have doubts on it being a solid Class M feat by itself.

Buoyancy on its own isn't going to assist much in causing the submarine to go Tokyo drifting when impacts like these pop up, let alone help any with keeping the submarine intact from being torn apart by such a spin.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Buoyancy on its own isn't going to assist much in causing the submarine to go Tokyo drifting when impacts like these pop up, let alone help any with keeping the submarine intact from being torn apart by such a spin.

While this is fair, there are irl examples where we see submarines kinda being rising a bit violently in emergency. This video comes to mind.



Still, I do think you made a reasonable point about it still going into a likely Class M feat anyway.

 

[KLOL506]

While this is fair, there are irl examples where we see submarines kinda being rising a bit violently in emergency. This video comes to mind.

This is incredibly tame to what Megatron did.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

This is incredibly tame to what Megatron did.

Aside from the spin part being caused by the initial push from Megatron, I don’t find the rising to the surface to being that 100% violent.

Well aside from my concerns regarding the submarine feat by Megatron (which isn’t fully resolved, but that is my personal opinion on the feat itself), we technically have the feat of the Driller being taken into question here.

 

[KLOL506]

Aside from the spin part being caused by the initial push by Megatron, I don’t find the rising to the surface to being that 100% violent.

Well aside from my concerns regarding the submarine feat by Megatron (which isn’t fully resolved, but that is my personal opinion on the feat itself), we technically have the feat of the Driller being taken into question here.

That's really the only thing that should be taken into question here TBF.

Nevertheless, I agree with OP, but not for the reasons he's mentioned. Partly.

It's because Optimus was tango'ing with the smaller tentacles and not the main body itself, he never wrestles with the main body of the driller in any scenario whatsoever. He doesn't need to lift or push the entire object to scale, he'd just need to wrestle against the opposing Driller's own force to scale to the full mass or even possibly way higher (Given that the Driller literally plowed through a building and all), which he unfortunately does not do.

 

[KLOL506]

Bump

Anyway, removing the Driller feat from Optimus seems to be largely accepted. Who else has mentions of the Driller feat? I can apply the edits if anyone can give me the list.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump

Anyway, removing the Driller feat from Optimus seems to be largely accepted. Who else has mentions of the Driller feat? I can apply the edits if anyone can give me the list.

I think we can still Scale The Fallen and Jetpower Optimus to the Driller since The Fallen is repeatedly stated to be the strongest decepticon, even after DotM came out. Jetpower Prime grappled the **** out of him and literally ripped his face off by wrapping his broken spear around it and pulling on it.

 

[KLOL506]

I think we can still Scale The Fallen and Jetpower Optimus to the Driller since The Fallen is repeatedly stated to be the strongest decepticon, even after DotM came out. Jetpower Prime grappled the **** out of him and literally ripped his face off by wrapping his broken spear around it and pulling on it.

I guess that could work.

 

[KLOL506]

Okay so only Fallen and Jetpower Optimus scale to the Driller's mass, who else has a Driller description that isn't Jetpower Optimus or the Fallen?