Powernull and hax layer question

[Orioreeem]

Can you power null hax that has more layers than power null?
Let's say there is info type 2 hax in verse and power null can destroy it, can that same power null destroy concept or plot hax from another verse?
If the answer is no, what if powernull has more layers then concept or plot hax?
What happens if you power null a power null? Does that get you layered hax as well?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Can you power null hax that has more layers than power null?

No.

Let's say there is info type 2 hax in verse and power null can destroy it, can that same power null destroy concept or plot hax from another verse?

No. The power null only concerns IM2 in the verse.

If the answer is no, what if powernull has more layers then concept or plot hax?

The fact is that power null has not been shown to be able to cancel CM or Plot Manip. So no matter what layers it has, it's useless.

What happens if you power null a power null? Does that get you layered hax as well?

Normally a character cannot power null a power null but resist. He will just take the resistance to this power null.

 

[Orioreeem]

The fact is that power null has not been shown to be able to cancel CM or Plot Manip. So no matter what layers it has, it's useless.

No. The power null only concerns IM2 in the verse.

Why? We had a tread that equalized plot info and concept hax.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Why? We had a tread that equalized plot info and concept hax.

Nah I don't think so. CM is different from IM which is different from Plot Manip. The three can't be equalized.

The thing is that power null was only used on IM2. You can't say for example that if a character who powers null magic then he can also power null resistance.

 

[Orioreeem]

Nah I don't think so. CM is different from IM which is different from Plot Manip. The three can't be equalized.

We have a page which reflects that

tho.
In fiction, some metaphysical aspects are often more fundamental than others or able to govern other aspects. E.g. Concepts frequently govern the laws of the universe and are more fundamental than them, such that manipulation of the laws can't influence concepts, but manipulating concepts also changes the laws to reflect the changes to reality performed when concepts were manipulated.

There is no default order to metaphysical aspects, meaning that if we have no additional information from the fiction a power comes from, we can not decide whether or not the ability to manipulate one aspect would be able to influence, overcome or be affected by another. For example, per default plot manipulation would not be able to manipulate concepts, but concept erasure can't necessarily be used to erase the plot either. In a vs-debate a clash between such powers may have an indeterminate outcome, unless at least one of the fictions involved clarifies how the interaction between the metaphysical aspects works.

The thing is that power null was only used on IM2. You can't say for example that if a character who powers null magic then he can also power null resistance.

Power null resistance?

 

[Digital_Franz]

In fiction, some metaphysical aspects are often more fundamental than others or able to govern other aspects. E.g. Concepts frequently govern the laws of the universe and are more fundamental than them, such that manipulation of the laws can't influence concepts, but manipulating concepts also changes the laws to reflect the changes to reality performed when concepts were manipulated.

Changing a concept doesn't really change the laws but everything that participates in this concept. I don't know if a law participates in a concept but hey. It won't automatically give Law Manipulation because it is just through the concept that a law is affected.

There is no default order to metaphysical aspects, meaning that if we have no additional information from the fiction a power comes from, we can not decide whether or not the ability to manipulate one aspect would be able to influence, overcome or be affected by another. For example, per default plot manipulation would not be able to manipulate concepts, but concept erasure can't necessarily be used to erase the plot either.

CM can never manipulate plot but Plot Manipulation can manipulate concepts although Plot Manip does not manipulate concepts in all cases.

Power null resistance?

Yes.

 

[Orioreeem]

CM can never manipulate plot but Plot Manipulation can manipulate concepts although Plot Manip does not manipulate concepts in all cases.

The page doesn't say that tho

 

[Digital_Franz]

The page doesn't say that tho

Which page?

 

[Orioreeem]

The one i quated above

 

[Digital_Franz]

The one i quated above

I would like to have the link to the page.

 

[Orioreeem]

I would like to have the link to the page.

Metaphysical Aspects

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yeah I see. So it should be noted that the equalization of concept manip and info manip is in special cases. So to come back to your question it is possible only if the two can be equalized. If Info Manip of verse A cannot be equalized to Concept Manip of verse B then the power null cannot act as you ask.

 

[Orioreeem]

Yeah I see. So it should be noted that the equalization of concept manip and info manip is in special cases.

In special cases? The page says that equalizationis the default assumption if the verses do not specify which hax is more abstract.

So to come back to your question it is possible only if the two can be equalized. If Info Manip of verse A cannot be equalized to Concept Manip of verse B then the power null cannot act as you ask.

So you are basically saying if verse A has concept hax that is superior then info hax and verse B only has plot hax then concept hax of verse A would be superior to plot hax of verse B and power null that can null concept hax of verse A can also null the plot hax of verse B right?

 

[Digital_Franz]

In special cases? The page says that equalizationis the default assumption if the verses do not specify which hax is more abstract.

So you are basically saying if verse A has concept hax that is superior then info hax and verse B only has plot hax then concept hax of verse A would be superior to plot hax of verse B and power null that can null concept hax of verse A can also null the plot hax of verse B right?

As we can not list every possible kind of metaphysical aspect that may appear in fiction, not listed things like names, Dao, essence or ether are usually sorted into the existing abilities by judging what seems most similar to the ability even if it is not an exact equivalence. At the same time do different fictions at times call very similar ideas by different names, such that what is called concept in one fiction might end up being almost the same as what is called information in another.