Pretty clear issue with All For One's profile

[Random-Helper323]

Idk what OP on but as far as finding how strong prime AFO is I think I might have something (idk).
We know the doctor intended on modeling Shigaraki’s body to be capable of housing AFO’s quirk, that’s why when he first woke his body was blowing apart. He physically couldn’t withstand the amount of quirks his body held.
Completed Shigaraki was the intended target so at least in my mind, the doctor believed PAM physicals were needed to withstand all the quirks that came with AFO.
Maybe that’s a reach, but I feel like that’s enough to warrant a possible scaling.

The problem is AFO already housed his Quirks without Shigaraki's level of power since we already know Shigaraki was stronger than AFO.

The statements say that Shigaraki needed a strength boost to handle AFO, but there's nothing in the statement that rules out the notion of him significantly surpassing the minimum requirements for it.

 

[BiggestOpp]

The problem is AFO already housed his Quirks without Shigaraki's level of power since we already know Shigaraki was stronger than AFO.

This is true to some extent.
Forgive me if I get some of what I’m about to say wrong, I haven’t read Mha in a while. Isn’t it implied or said a couple times that AFO lost some of his quirks?
I do believe that to be true and it could explain why AFO could have been weaker than Shigaraki and not implode due to his quirks, or do to quirk Singularity.
I edited my post and added a scan that may help the argument.
Shigaraki stated that some external factors along with AFO and the plethora of quirks forced his body to evolve and take on a form capable of withstanding that.
Quirk Singularity is the theory that quirks would eventually become too strong for the body to withstand, some slop like that.
So if his body adapted to a state capable of housing AFO, and that state was Prime AM levels of power, wouldn’t this have to mean something?

 

[VoidGoji]

Reddit is making fun of a rating, so it must be false! (Reddit will see the most blatant country-level feat, but if its country level in vsb they will make fun of it and either lowball or wank it)

 

[Nullflowerblush]

So if his body adapted to a state capable of housing AFO, and that state was Prime AM levels of power, wouldn’t this have to mean something?

Shigaraki was as strong as All Might in his prime before the Final War. During the previous battle, he was only as powerful as All Might in his weakened state because he was awakened from his operation prematurely (at only 75% completion); but he then powered up to the level of All Might in his prime upon reaching 100% completion, as he was originally intended to. He then began growing more powerful throughout the fight with Bakugo and co., eventually becoming on par with Deku, who is explicitly more powerful than All Might was in his prime.

 

[BiggestOpp]

Shigaraki was as strong as All Might in his prime before the Final War. During the previous battle, he was only as powerful as All Might in his weakened state because he was awakened from his operation prematurely (at only 75% completion); but he then powered up to the level of All Might in his prime upon reaching 100% completion, as he was originally intended to. He then began growing more powerful throughout the fight with Bakugo and co., eventually becoming on par with Deku, who is explicitly more powerful than All Might was in his prime.

I understand this much but I’m confused as to what your point is.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Ah yes, the chick who can one-shot Nomu that are verbatim physically stronger than everyone but Deku and Shigaraki. She's clearly not just built different.

 

[AllForOne]

Sorry for the delay. Holidays were pretty nuts lol.

They were only ever instakill moments with AFO* The High End nomu is the only other instance of it being used and it was specifically on a non-lethal area of the body. Which should be noted for Mirko's case.

The rest of my points still stand. AFO was not trying to kill AM in the first fight. Hence why he tore out his stomach and part of his lungs. He underestimated All Might's heroic resolve and paid dearlu for it as a consequence. This is where the 'Wounded heroes are the scariest' line comes from.

I'm going to try and grab the stats from the last databook to see if Mirko is rated lower than AFO or if they have the same rating. Hopefully that will answer any last doubts.

Either way I think there is a strong case for some or all of my CRT points to be given a look at.

 

[AllForOne]

I'm also in disagreement with this.

Reasoning?

It takes some real mental gymnastics to get the idea that Mirko of all characters is physically stronger than Prime Rewind AFO or somehow is a tier above.

 

[AllForOne]

Ah yes, the chick who can one-shot Nomu that are verbatim physically stronger than everyone but Deku and Shigaraki. She's clearly not just built different.

They weren't at full power immediately after waking up? You fail to mention what is a pretty big key detail.

Shigaraki was as strong as All Might in his prime before the Final War. During the previous battle, he was only as powerful as All Might in his weakened state because he was awakened from his operation prematurely (at only 75% completion); but he then powered up to the level of All Might in his prime upon reaching 100% completion, as he was originally intended to. He then began growing more powerful throughout the fight with Bakugo and co., eventually becoming on par with Deku, who is explicitly more powerful than All Might was in his prime.

The crucial point is that this was without his quirks. It's also why Shigaraku is stated to be stronger than AFO's original body in the Final War.

Shiggy is stacking quirks ontop of PAM level raw physicals. So of course he is going to be stronger than AFO who doesn't have the same base no quirk physicals. (He also only gets there by stacking quirks ontop of eachother to deal the same damage All Might can do with just a single punch.)

But he still believed himself strong enough to fight Shigaraki if it came down to it. So that should be enough for the scaling.

And that is disregarding RAFO just generally ranking higher than Mirko by virtue of the lore.

 

[BiggestOpp]

They were only ever instakill moments with AFO* The High End nomu is the only other instance of it being used and it was specifically on a non-lethal area of the body. Which should be noted for Mirko's case.

Why does the targeted area matter? What’s the point of you even mentioning this?

The rest of my points still stand. AFO was not trying to kill AM in the first fight. Hence why he tore out his stomach and part of his lungs. He underestimated All Might's heroic resolve and paid dearlu for it as a consequence. This is where the 'Wounded heroes are the scariest' line comes from.

And what is this based on? Do you have scans? Evidence? Anything implying such?
AFO has been attempting to get OFA for DECADES, he has no reason to “not try to kill AM” especially when we know he can steal quirks from the dead.
AFO tactic against weakened All Might were stated to be entirely different than when they first fought.
His tactics against weakened All Might was wearing him down and then taking him down with one blow.
Prime AFO didn’t attempt this, he instead tried to fight AM head on and paid the price for it.
There’s no evidence for this interpretation so this point is moot.

I'm going to try and grab the stats from the last databook to see if Mirko is rated lower than AFO or if they have the same rating. Hopefully that will answer any last doubts.

The databook has many stats that makes no sense or is contradictory to the main series. This shouldn’t be used as evidence and as far as I’m aware it isn’t acceptable for this verse.

Either way I think there is a strong case for some or all of my CRT points to be given a look at.

There really isn’t.
It all boils down to you not believing Mirko can be stronger than AFO in pure physicals.

They weren't at full power immediately after waking up? You fail to mention what is a pretty big key detail.

This is completely irrelevant to their durability. You might be able to make an argument for their attack power and speed, but their durability doesn’t change regardless of if they’re completely aware or not.

The crucial point is that this was without his quirks. It's also why Shigaraku is stated to be stronger than AFO's original body in the Final War.

Shiggy is stacking quirks ontop of PAM level raw physicals. So of course he is going to be stronger than AFO who doesn't have the same base no quirk physicals. (He also only gets there by stacking quirks ontop of eachother to deal the same damage All Might can do with just a single punch.)

But he still believed himself strong enough to fight Shigaraki if it came down to it. So that should be enough for the scaling.

Rewind AFO was being dogged by Bakugo who he believed to be weaker than Endeavor. Endeavor. Endeavor.
Do I need to say it again?
Endeavor is weakened AM level.
Tomura, per your own words, is vastly superior to PAM.
PAM could one shot PAFO.
Need I say more?
AFO is aware that Deku and Tomura is in a stalemate, AFO has his regeneration to, his win condition is a single touch.
It’s easy to see how he could possibly win that confrontation with Tomura.

And that is disregarding RAFO just generally ranking higher than Mirko by virtue of the lore.

What is Mirko going to do when RAFO rains down ranged attacks from miles away that has the capacity to kill her?
No one is saying Mirko can beat PAFO or RAFO, they are just saying based on what the series have shown us, your arguments aren’t reasonable enough to change the scaling here.

 

[AllForOne]

Why does the targeted area matter? What’s the point of you even mentioning this?

It matters a lot in terms of lethality. Are you more likely to be killed by a wound to the arm or a wound to the head / chest? Do the math.

AFO generally doesn't use Spatial Warp in combat unless its to directly kill somebody. So the likelihood of him using it on All Might, while he still had One For All, isn't very high because he wanted to recover Yoichi's quirk at all costs.

And what is this based on? Do you have scans? Evidence? Anything implying such?
AFO has been attempting to get OFA for DECADES, he has no reason to “not try to kill AM” especially when we know he can steal quirks from the dead.
AFO tactic against weakened All Might were stated to be entirely different than when they first fought.
His tactics against weakened All Might was wearing him down and then taking him down with one blow.
Prime AFO didn’t attempt this, he instead tried to fight AM head on and paid the price for it.
There’s no evidence for this interpretation so this point is moot.

We do not know if he can steal quirks from the dead? Where does that come from? It's only shown that he can give them to reanimated vessels with the Doctor's help.

If you're referring to Stain he clearly stole the quirk right as he killed him. Similar to how Overhaul can't revive the dead unless if he uses both aspects of his quirk simultaneously. As seen with Rappa.

Ironic you're attacking me for not providing scans when you haven't provided any yourself. Try to walk what you talk next time? It'll help you out in the long run.

The databook has many stats that makes no sense or is contradictory to the main series. This shouldn’t be used as evidence and as far as I’m aware it isn’t acceptable for this verse.

Right. Horikoshi doesn't know his own series quite like random VSBW user who clearly has more expertise and knowledge than the author with My Hero Academia's powerscaling.

Prove it isn't accepted then. Show me examples of the databooks being wrong. Back up your claims.

Or maybe next time don't call the kettle black when you're also a pot?

This is completely irrelevant to their durability. You might be able to make an argument for their attack power and speed, but their durability doesn’t change regardless of if they’re completely aware or not.

So by your logic, Shigaraki's durability never changed. Which means all of the characters who fought him in the first war should get proper scaling.

Good job pointing that out for me.

There really isn’t.
It all boils down to you not believing Mirko can be stronger than AFO in pure physicals.

You do realize I'm arguing for Attack Potency and not necessarily Striking Strength right? Cause AFO's profile has RAFO at Country level in AP. Which is the whole problem??

Mirko is literally rated higher than him in both dura and dc by a whole ass different tier?

Rewind AFO was being dogged by Bakugo who he believed to be weaker than Endeavor. Endeavor. Endeavor.
Do I need to say it again?
Endeavor is weakened AM level.
Tomura, per your own words, is vastly superior to PAM.
PAM could one shot PAFO.
Need I say more?
AFO is aware that Deku and Tomura is in a stalemate, AFO has his regeneration to, his win condition is a single touch.
It’s easy to see how he could possibly win that confrontation with Tomura.

All Might suffered numerous injuries in their first fight if you actually check the aftermath. Both of his arms are bandaged and his left hands fingers are likely broken.

He also has a wound to the face, albeit minor.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL0UDm1VcAIB6Re.jpg

This is evidence their AP is relative. Now is AM on the higher end? Yes. But its not to the point AFO can't injure All Might with his attacks.

All Might also doesn't care about what happens to himself like with Deku. So he would rather tank attacks head on with brute force than necessarily dodge them all. Even if he suffers some injuries in the process.

What is Mirko going to do when RAFO rains down ranged attacks from miles away that has the capacity to kill her?
No one is saying Mirko can beat PAFO or RAFO, they are just saying based on what the series have shown us, your arguments aren’t reasonable enough to change the scaling here.

So AFO is weaker than Mirko in both AP and Dura but he's going to take her down before she closes the gap and knocks his head off like All Might?

Mental Gynmastics like this should be studied.

Thanks for admitting that I'm right, though. Maybe fix your scaling to reflect what you admitted above?

 

[BiggestOpp]

It matters a lot in terms of lethality. Are you more likely to be killed by a wound to the arm or a wound to the head / chest? Do the math.

I asked because I wasn’t sure on why you figured this was important to the discussion. You elaborated though so I’ll give you that.

AFO generally doesn't use Spatial Warp in combat unless its to directly kill somebody. So the likelihood of him using it on All Might, while he still had One For All, isn't very high because he wanted to recover Yoichi's quirk at all costs.

He can take his quirk after he’s deceased.

We do not know if he can steal quirks from the dead? Where does that come from? It's only shown that he can give them to reanimated vessels with the Doctor's help.

Chapter 281.
AFO took his brother’s hand and started feeling for his quirk.
There’s also other dialogue and what not, AFO saying he has never seen anything like this (Yoichi quirk factors just disappearing) and comes to the logical conclusion that his quirk must have been transferred.
Knowing that it was transferred makes him believe that he can still regain OFA.
He took the hand in an attempt to regain the quirk.
While it doesn’t directly say “AFO can take quirks from the dead” all the dialogue practically paints that picture.

If you're referring to Stain he clearly stole the quirk right as he killed him. Similar to how Overhaul can't revive the dead unless if he uses both aspects of his quirk simultaneously. As seen with Rappa.

I’m not referring to Stain and Overhaul is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Ironic you're attacking me for not providing scans when you haven't provided any yourself. Try to walk what you talk next time? It'll help you out in the long run.

I’m asking you to prove how All for One and All Might’s fight went.
You can’t. Because we’re never shown the fight. There isn’t even enough evidence for a likely scaling here.

Right. Horikoshi doesn't know his own series quite like random VSBW user who clearly has more expertise and knowledge than the author with My Hero Academia's powerscaling.

Didn’t say this, I’m saying he isn’t consistent on what he puts out.
Shoto is listed as S in power.
Do I even have to elaborate? Mirko is A+.
None of Shoto abilities are close to the power of a kick from Mirko, that’s just objectively false. There’s many more examples that I can bring up that I don’t feel like doing because I don’t have the book and I’m not aware of any places that hold the scans. That only is proof of what I’m saying.

Prove it isn't accepted then. Show me examples of the databooks being wrong. Back up your claims.

Or maybe next time don't call the kettle black when you're also a pot?

Can any of the Mha supports here confirm whether the databook statistics are relevant here?

So by your logic, Shigaraki's durability never changed. Which means all of the characters who fought him in the first war should get proper scaling.

Good job pointing that out for me.

….? What are you talking about? How did the topic suddenly switch from High End Nomu to Shigaraki?
What?????
I feel like you know your argument was bad so you chose to make a disingenuous argument instead of conceding.
The Nomu base stats are stated superior to USJ Nomu.
Things like combat speed, reaction timing and MAYBE attack potency can be weakened due to this but durability? That’s interchangeable. Then waking up is simply them becoming more aware. A stationary rock and a moving rock is going to have the same durability. Just give up on this argument.

You do realize I'm arguing for Attack Potency and not necessarily Striking Strength right? Cause AFO's profile has RAFO at Country level in AP. Which is the whole problem??

Same thing my guy 🫩 maybe I should have been more clear.

Mirko is literally rated higher than him in both dura and dc by a whole ass different tier?

shockers.

All Might suffered numerous injuries in their first fight if you actually check the aftermath. Both of his arms are bandaged and his left hands fingers are likely broken.

He also has a wound to the face, albeit minor.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL0UDm1VcAIB6Re.jpg

This is evidence their AP is relative. Now is AM on the higher end? Yes. But it’s not to the point AFO can't injure All Might with his attacks.

Now show us what attacks caused these injuries.
Show us what quirks caused this.
Show us anything 🫩.
AFO has a plethora of quirks that has varying abilities. Did he burn All Might? Piercing?
Some acidic quirk?
What? What? Can you at least give us a hint of what may have occurred so we can POSSIBLY give AFO some possible scaling?

So AFO is weaker than Mirko in both AP and Dura but he's going to take her down before she closes the gap and knocks his head off like All Might?

Mental Gynmastics like this should be studied.

For a guy constantly throwing around insults like Mental Gymnastics you sure have shown that you don’t even pay attention to the profiles you so much distain.
Mirko only has continental durability with her legs.
This is literally shown on the profile. She has an entirely different rating of durability right above this.
ITS LITERALLY RIGHT THERE.
The bare minimum you can do is read and you won’t even do that. You cannot be serious. This has to be AI I don’t understand it.
It’s astonishing how idiotic you can be, and this isn’t an insult.
Mirko can have universal AP and she would still lose.
AFO, like I said in the post you responded to, has ranged attacks that can span over hundreds of meters, he can also fly, teleport Mirko etc.
He also has a DURABILITY NEGATION QUIRK and countless other quirks that can benefit him.
Mirko has no extended range, cannot fly, and has no way of stopped AFO from attacking.
She’s a sitting duck.
AFO rains down laser beams, air canons, rivet stabs, flesh creatures, lightning, etc etc and Mirko can’t do anything but take it.
You’re aware of this but somehow don’t see how it’s possible for AFO to be capable of beating her despite her having higher AP?
This the guy throwing around insults .

Thanks for admitting that I'm right, though. Maybe fix your scaling to reflect what you admitted above?

You trying to make yourself appear so smart and intelligent and throwing out snarky insults is entertaining asl I can’t lie.

First you come in and say AFO scales to PAM but you cannot prove this, no evidence.
Saying that lore dictates that AFO and AM should be relative when the lore literally shows All Might OBLITERATING the top of AFO’s head.
Not, cave in, or hit him hard enough to cause brain damage enough to kill him.
He literally pulverized the top of his head.
Then you say HEN weren’t at full power, as if they have some energy system that empowers their physical durability. Trying to take away her feats that help support their decision. You’re a clown.
Then you prove that you’re incapable of reading or purposely omitted some information because it makes your case weaker, when either angle makes you look like an even bigger idiot.
Youre so content on your belief that you cannot conceive how it’s possible for Mirko to lose to All For One despite being stronger.
You’re using A>B and B>C so A>C logic, dumbing things down to somehow make it seem like the community is the problem here when in reality you lack the basic sense to understand that fights don’t always follow that logic, even in cases were two people are completely relative in physical capabilities things like skill and experience can take a battle from a toss up to a one sided stomp.
AFO has the AP to harm Mirko, the experience to outskill, he can also FLY and SHOOT ATTACKS FROM HUNDRED OF METERS AWAY, and you somehow can’t conceive how saying he can beat Mirko isn’t idiotic?
This is the guy throwing out insults????
Just ask someone to close the thread, being an asshole isn’t going to somehow make you correct.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

The two of you should probably stop before one of you throws out an insult that'll put you two in RVR. This isn't that big of a deal.

 

[AllForOne]

asked because I wasn’t sure on why you figured this was important to the discussion. You elaborated though so I’ll give you that.

I shouldn't have had to if you use reading comprehension.

He can take his quirk after he’s deceased.

Show me scans of him doing so then since you like to pull the "we didn't see it happen so can't infer details" argument.

Chapter 281.
AFO took his brother’s hand and started feeling for his quirk.
There’s also other dialogue and what not, AFO saying he has never seen anything like this (Yoichi quirk factors just disappearing) and comes to the logical conclusion that his quirk must have been transferred.
Knowing that it was transferred makes him believe that he can still regain OFA.
He took the hand in an attempt to regain the quirk.
While it doesn’t directly say “AFO can take quirks from the dead” all the dialogue practically paints that picture.

He merely says that he used his powers to confirm that the quirk factor is gone. So, is it not possible that he just has quirks for this purpose? Just because he says the quirk factor is gone doesn't necessarily translate to him being able to take back the quirk from a dead individual.

I'd argue that his getting excited afterward was because he thought he had killed Yoichi for good. But because the quirk was transferred before he killed him, it essentially means he was still 'alive.'

I’m not referring to Stain and Overhaul is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Whatever you say in that case.

I’m asking you to prove how All for One and All Might’s fight went.
You can’t. Because we’re never shown the fight. There isn’t even enough evidence for a likely scaling here.

Do... you just not read the story? We're given enough details to get the basic idea of what happened. While we don't see it exactly, AFO pulls the exact same trick on Endeavor and then follows up with his Mouth quirk to give him a similar wound. This is to paint us a picture of what happened with All Might.

There have been profiles with fewer details. I think it's justified to scale AFO to the same tier as Mirko when he is shown to be much more powerful to the point nobody could beat him on their own, as the story literally tells us.

Are you really telling me Rabbit has higher AP than AFO with his quirk combo's? Oh wait, you already admitted he is so this continued argument is basically pointless.

Didn’t say this, I’m saying he isn’t consistent on what he puts out.
Shoto is listed as S in power.
Do I even have to elaborate? Mirko is A+.
None of Shoto abilities are close to the power of a kick from Mirko, that’s just objectively false. There’s many more examples that I can bring up that I don’t feel like doing because I don’t have the book and I’m not aware of any places that hold the scans. That only is proof of what I’m saying

So if the story contradicts itself, do we throw everything out the window because the writing isn't consistent? No. Databooks may make mistakes sometimes, but you can't just throw everything out because of that. They are literally intended to support what the narrative shows.

Can you stop fanboying Mirko for like a second? I'm getting concerned.

….? What are you talking about? How did the topic suddenly switch from High End Nomu to Shigaraki?
What?????
I feel like you know your argument was bad so you chose to make a disingenuous argument instead of conceding.
The Nomu base stats are stated superior to USJ Nomu.
Things like combat speed, reaction timing and MAYBE attack potency can be weakened due to this but durability? That’s interchangeable. Then waking up is simply them becoming more aware. A stationary rock and a moving rock is going to have the same durability. Just give up on this argument.

Got scans to back this up? I don't see any. So your point is merely headcanon by your own logic.

shockers.

Yeah. It's wrong. I'm shocked a mistake can be made like this. So I'm trying to fix it.

Now show us what attacks caused these injuries.
Show us what quirks caused this.
Show us anything 🫩.
AFO has a plethora of quirks that has varying abilities. Did he burn All Might? Piercing?
Some acidic quirk?
What? What? Can you at least give us a hint of what may have occurred so we can POSSIBLY give AFO some possible scaling?

This is just grasping at straws. Yawn.

For a guy constantly throwing around insults like Mental Gymnastics you sure have shown that you don’t even pay attention to the profiles you so much distain.
Mirko only has continental durability with her legs.
This is literally shown on the profile. She has an entirely different rating of durability right above this.
ITS LITERALLY RIGHT THERE.
The bare minimum you can do is read and you won’t even do that. You cannot be serious. This has to be AI I don’t understand it.
It’s astonishing how idiotic you can be, and this isn’t an insult.
Mirko can have universal AP and she would still lose.
AFO, like I said in the post you responded to, has ranged attacks that can span over hundreds of meters, he can also fly, teleport Mirko etc.
He also has a DURABILITY NEGATION QUIRK and countless other quirks that can benefit him.
Mirko has no extended range, cannot fly, and has no way of stopped AFO from attacking.
She’s a sitting duck.
AFO rains down laser beams, air canons, rivet stabs, flesh creatures, lightning, etc etc and Mirko can’t do anything but take it.
You’re aware of this but somehow don’t see how it’s possible for AFO to be capable of beating her despite her having higher AP?
This the guy throwing around insults .

You can interpret my words as you like, but the only one throwing around insults right now is yourself, huh?

I could report you for this, however, I'll let it slide since your content is funny to read.

Still doesn't make sense to scale Mirko's legs higher than the main villain of the series.

You trying to make yourself appear so smart and intelligent and throwing out snarky insults is entertaining asl I can’t lie.

First you come in and say AFO scales to PAM but you cannot prove this, no evidence.
Saying that lore dictates that AFO and AM should be relative when the lore literally shows All Might OBLITERATING the top of AFO’s head.
Not, cave in, or hit him hard enough to cause brain damage enough to kill him.
He literally pulverized the top of his head.
Then you say HEN weren’t at full power, as if they have some energy system that empowers their physical durability. Trying to take away her feats that help support their decision. You’re a clown.
Then you prove that you’re incapable of reading or purposely omitted some information because it makes your case weaker, when either angle makes you look like an even bigger idiot.
Youre so content on your belief that you cannot conceive how it’s possible for Mirko to lose to All For One despite being stronger.
You’re using A>B and B>C so A>C logic, dumbing things down to somehow make it seem like the community is the problem here when in reality you lack the basic sense to understand that fights don’t always follow that logic, even in cases were two people are completely relative in physical capabilities things like skill and experience can take a battle from a toss up to a one sided stomp.
AFO has the AP to harm Mirko, the experience to outskill, he can also FLY and SHOOT ATTACKS FROM HUNDRED OF METERS AWAY, and you somehow can’t conceive how saying he can beat Mirko isn’t idiotic?
This is the guy throwing out insults????
Just ask someone to close the thread, being an asshole isn’t going to somehow make you correct.

You know it's kind of hypocritical to call me out for doing what you're literally doing right now? So try to watch your language from here on out toward others.

The two of you should probably stop before one of you throws out an insult that'll put you two in RVR. This isn't that big of a deal.

I agree. But I'm still making my case for the changes. BiggestOpp isn't really providing much of an argument.

 

[AllForOne]

Update. I've purchased the final fan book to confirm what the stats are.

This should answer everyones questions.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I'd love more than anything than to give Prime AFO prime all might scaling but, unless we get a prime all might movie, it's not happening

 

[AllForOne]

I'd love more than anything than to give Prime AFO prime all might scaling but, unless we get a prime all might movie, it's not happening

Imagine ignoring the lore just because of an agenda.

He scales by virtue of being able to inflict PAM with multiple injuries besides the hole in their fight.

Can people like.. pay attention to the artwork? Or the anime?

 

[AllForOne]

I'm still waiting on the final databook by the way. It's shipped.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Imagine ignoring the lore just because of an agenda.

He scales by virtue of being able to inflict PAM with multiple injuries besides the hole in their fight.

Can people like.. pay attention to the artwork? Or the anime?

Mate, my agenda IS that Prime AFO=Prim All might but it's not happening with the current knowledge we have now

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Mate, my agenda IS that Prime AFO=Prim All might but it's not happening with the current knowledge we have now

I will test your other agenda soon

 

[AllForOne]

Mate, my agenda IS that Prime AFO=Prim All might but it's not happening with the current knowledge we have now

So did you read my message??

PAFO dealt injuries to PAM OTHER than the hole. This alone is enough to get him the scaling. Even disregarding the BS about him using the Spatial Distortion quirk. (It was most likely the same mouth quirk he used to do the same thing to Endeavor, although to a lesser extent.)

That or Miruko needs her stats revoked otherwise. She is getting scaling based on the same reasoning of doing damage to completed Shigaraki, who is at PAM level.

I really do genuinely feel bad for the mangaka who have powerscalers acting like they know more about their own creative work than they do. There are exceptions, but an entire databook FROM THE AUTHOR is not one of them.

People need to stop the disrespect to Japanese creators.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I will test your other agenda soon

You're testing my AFO agenda? crazy work, who's the matchup

 

[Cube_85040]

One detail I will bring up is that AFO clearly wasn't going for the kill on All Might when he injured him. That would risk destroying Yoichi for good

Is there any proof for this? We know for a fact a quirk can remain postmortem via the fact AFO can detect a missing quirk through the severed hand of a dead body. I also don’t see why this would mean AFO can’t be going all out regardless? It’s not as though boxers are trying to kill each other while fighting, but evidently they are still putting in the full effort to win.

If you need more contextual evidence they are in the same ballpark, consider that AFO wasn't even injured before All Might lands his final punch. So he was likely tanking casual blows throughout the fight while he tried out various quirks.

The lack of injuries within that panel can just be chalked up to illustrative oversight. Based on the flashback; we see his body absolutely trashed with scuff marks and bruises. We also know via all might himself that AFO received other injuries other than turning his head into red mist. “Those wounds” is plural, so I don’t think I need to explain why that means he had multiple injuries.

All Might suffered numerous injuries in their first fight if you actually check the aftermath. Both of his arms are bandaged and his left hands fingers are likely broken.

We don’t know what caused these injuries. As biggestopp already tried to imply, there aren’t any grounds for scaling here due to the fact we know absolutely nothing about how this was achieved. We know he lost a considerable amount of quirks. He could have had any quirk at that point. In fact actually, AFO has a quirk that sends all mights attacks back at him, so that could be the cause as well. Perhaps even a combination of impact recoil+some of his own attacks may have caused those. Regardless they both mean it’s not afos sole exertion. It’s all mights. The overarching point here is that we have ZERO idea on what happened.

While we don't see it exactly, AFO pulls the exact same trick on Endeavor and then follows up with his Mouth quirk to give him a similar wound. This is to paint us a picture of what happened with All Might.

I don’t really see how this negates the idea of the quirk he used on all might being completely unknown. The attack could have required significant charging, could have been haxxy. The point is you can’t reliably scale AFO, a guy with any amount of abilities, to all might just based on all might having a few injuries.

According to the doctor, he also deemed his loss to him inevitable, which means he saw winning as impossible. A 100/0 chance. By itself that already suggests a decent power gap between the two. (The weakened part is about afos empire. We know that because AFO hid gigantomachia while he still had his face)

There’s also the narrative mirroring that occurs with endeavor. AFO says he never thought endeavor would be the one to make him relive the hardships of ‘that day’ (referring to his 1st fight with AM), and what follows is endeavor completely thrashing him.
That moment was a set up for endeavor to follow in all mights foot steps, so I think it tracks to say all might overwhelmed AFO in a similar manner at some point. Pre gut wound as well seeing as tho the flashback he has is of all might unharmed.
Also the wording is important. Hardships definitionally means suffering. He’s saying all might made him SUFFER dude.

If you want something more direct proof of superiority, afos prime form with rewind was overpowered and significantly damaged by dark shadow. AFO places all might in a higher bracket of power than dark shadow therefore AM>DS>PAFO.

Nothing aside from one off panel tries to say they are equal. In which case narratives can change, and all of these obviously contradicting statements are evidence of that. Or that statement was never reliable to begin with.

 

[AllForOne]

Is there any proof for this? We know for a fact a quirk can remain postmortem via the fact AFO can detect a missing quirk through the severed hand of a dead body. I also don’t see why this would mean AFO can’t be going all out regardless? It’s not as though boxers are trying to kill each other while fighting, but evidently they are still putting in the full effort to win.

If that was completely the case, why would he not just have Shigaraki go for the kill on Star and Stripe? Or Deku given he wanted OFA above all else? He's never been showing stealing quirks from a non-living person.

Nomu are reanimated corpses. Which is a big difference as they have brain activity restored to a degree plus the Doctors meddling. It's not the same scenario as what you're implying.

<reply 2>

So you're saying Horikoshi messed up on an important panel like this?? He sure didn't forget to put All Might's gut wound in the frame. Maybe the 'illustrative oversight' is more-so presented better in your argument.

Your reasoning for that is flawed when Horikoshi remembered to keep drawing in the quirks AFO transformed his fingers into when showing them off to Endeavor at the start of the fight. He could have easily left them out for such a one-off panel.

Having your face and most of your head blown off can be interpreted as multiple wounds medically.

We don’t know what caused these injuries. As biggestopp already tried to imply, there aren’t any grounds for scaling here due to the fact we know absolutely nothing about how this was achieved. We know he lost a considerable amount of quirks. He could have had any quirk at that point. In fact actually, AFO has a quirk that sends all mights attacks back at him, so that could be the cause as well. Perhaps even a combination of impact recoil+some of his own attacks may have caused those. Regardless they both mean it’s not afos sole exertion. It’s all mights. The overarching point here is that we have ZERO idea on what happened.

I can tell given you didnt read far enough to know AFO's Kamino quirks are completely different than his Prime's quirkset. Air Cannon, Warping, Impact Recoil, Springlike limbs are all abilities he did not have before his first fight. They are designed to counter All Might's fighting style.

We also don't really need to know how exactly he got them given they exist just to show how tough of an opponent AFO is even for someone like All Might. The simple fact is that he got those injuries during his fight with AFO. Understand?

<reply 3>

There's no indication either it was some form of hax quirk. AFO prefers his Mouth / Spearlike bones quirk for easy wounds. What he did to Endeavor is a mirror of what likely happened with All Might.

AFO plans for everything. At least according to himself. He knew All Might wasn't a joke from what he could publicly see plus his intel network. It was the first time that somebody actually on his level had appeared since the time of quirks began. Why would he not be prepared in the event he did lose the fight? (which he almost won had he wanted to kill All Might straight up)

Ultimately this doesn't suffice as proof he wasn't comparable to him in some degree. All Might is also described as incredibly fast. So there could have been a speed gap preventing AFO from landing critical hits.

Even if you compare the fight with Endeavor to the fight with AM, how does that imply he is an entire tier weaker than him?? Are you now saying Endeavor should scale above AFO because he got the upper hand? (while he was off life support and having a quirk rebellion mind you.)

Dark Shadow is only as powerful as he was due to environmental factors. All Might is statically strong in comparison. Obviously All Might would rank above him. (Inasa was also boosting him and he only accumulated that much damage by relentlessly pounding on AFO)

DS and Endeavor both had to give everything they had just to land some decent hits on AFO too. All Might actually straight up defeated and almost killed him in battle. So there's that too. (By himself)

My argument also isn't that they are completely equal to an even degree. Just that they nelong in the same tier of power.

Can I link you to Viz Media's digital archive so you can reread the manga? Or maybe read it for the first time since you seem to only have MHA wiki fandom knowledge on the series based on everything you've said here.

Sigh.

Edited:

 

[Cube_85040]

If that was completely the case, why would he not just have Shigaraki go for the kill on Star and Stripe? Or Deku given he wanted OFA above all else? He's never been showing stealing quirks from a non-living person.

What makes you think he wasn’t attempting either?And what part in the series says death is the limit to what AFO steals?

So you're saying Horikoshi messed up on an important panel like this?? He sure didn't forget to put All Might's gut wound in the frame. Maybe the 'illustrative oversight' is more-so presented better in your argument.

I mean yeah lol, the gut wound is the most obviously glaring wound he’s got. Other injuries like scrapes, bruises, abrasions and broken bones would only occur from beneath the clothing. AFO is fully clothed in that panel, and his clothing has an bunch of wrinkles and crevices in them—alongside the fact that the composition of the panel is done to look like an old VHS, so injuries wouldn’t be immediately noticeable therefore didn’t get drawn.

Your reasoning for that is flawed when Horikoshi remembered to keep drawing in the quirks AFO transformed his fingers into when showing them off to Endeavor at the start of the fight. He could have easily left them out for such a one-off panel.

this isn’t a contradiction. Illustrative oversight can occur randomly. Remembering small details and accidentally, occasionally omitting them other times are not mutually exclusive . This isn’t really a contention. Especially when we know factually from the guy who fought him first hand that AFO had several injuries inflicted on him.

I can tell given you didnt read far enough to know AFO's Kamino quirks are completely different than his Prime's quirkset. Air Cannon, Warping, Impact Recoil, Springlike limbs are all abilities he did not have before his first fight. They are designed to counter All Might's fighting style.

Why does this mean he didn’t have impact recoil back then? Gran Torinos statement does not specify. He only says “the quirks and tactics he’s using are different.” A general claim. In which case generalizations are prone to exceptions. We see him using spearlike bones, a quirk he had from way back when he was younger. Clearly signifying that not EVERY quirk of his is different or has been lost.

We also don't really need to know how exactly he got them given they exist just to show how tough of an opponent AFO is even for someone like All Might

That’s fine. He doesn’t need to hit as hard as all might to trouble him. The point here is the extent you’re trying to upscale him is based on unscalable events.

There's no indication either it was some form of hax quirk. AFO prefers his Mouth / Spearlike bones quirk for easy wounds. What he did to Endeavor is a mirror of what likely happened with All Might.

I want you to justify this likelihood. Why does it being the attack that damaged endeavor inherently necessitate or create a likelihood for it being the same quirk that damaged all might? The only similarity we know is the basic tactic. Talk smack, exploit your opponents rageful unfocused state. This can occur with any sort of quirk.

AFO plans for everything. At least according to himself. He knew All Might wasn't a joke from what he could publicly see plus his intel network. It was the first time that somebody actually on his level had appeared since the time of quirks began. Why would he not be prepared in the event he did lose the fight? (which he almost won had he wanted to kill All Might straight up)

What? He’s not just planning as a precaution lol, he’s planning because the outcome is to him, predetermined. That is why garaki says AFO KNEW (certainty) that defeat was inevitable. As in: he knew himself that he could not win. I have no idea how or what drove you to interpret the statement that disingenuously. Also think about what that actually means. AFO can literally conjure up and fuse all of his quirks together with Omni factor release, yet he still believes victory is impossible. If that doesn’t suggest a sizable gap then I genuinely just don’t know what to tell you.

Ultimately this doesn't suffice as proof he wasn't comparable to him in some degree. All Might is also described as incredibly fast. So there could have been a speed gap preventing AFO from landing critical hits.

again, what is this supposed to be refuting. If this is to correspond to what I said about the narrative parallel endeavor is set up to have with all might then it just doesn’t really contradict what I said. All might made him suffer and trashed him just as endeavor did.

Even if you compare the fight with Endeavor to the fight with AM, how does that imply he is an entire tier weaker than him?? Are you now saying Endeavor should scale above AFO because he got the upper hand? (while he was off life support and having a quirk rebellion mind you.)

Endeavor COMPLETELY overwhelms AFO to the point he snapped several shields AFO had stacked together. Dragged him through various mountains, and turned him into a helpless ragdoll. If that doesn’t suggest a MASSIVE gap in power then I genuinely think the vsbw brain rot has poisoned your brain and made you lose sight of what actual power differences look like. And yeah in that moment, no matter how conditional or circumstantial it was, endeavor had a SIGNIFICANT advantage on AFO. That is objectively the case.

Ofc naturally I do not think endeavor should on average scale above AFO. But I fail to see how this is relevant—because we know PAM vs PAFO was completely isolated from the public eye. Whatever ass whooping AFO received would’ve been done under totally fair and equal circumstances. No quirk rebellions or anything. Just a tussle that AFO got greatly suffered in as per his own words. And as I said, he likely got trashed just as hard since that’s the set up behind endeavor doing so. It was a recreation of what all might already done hence why he says “relive”. So yeah this pretty much solidly entails all might was a good amount stronger.

Dark Shadow is only as powerful as he was due to environmental factors. All Might is statically strong in comparison. Obviously All Might would rank above him. (Inasa was also boosting him and he only accumulated that much damage by relentlessly pounding on AFO)

This is so beyond irrelevant. It does not matter DS was amped by inasa or was as powerful as he was due to optimal environment. AFO is comparing how that dark shadow, endeavor and all might all compare to Bakugo in their attack power; and he places all might in his own, higher bracket. He is comparing their POWER. How HARD THEY HIT. Not a totality skill set. Simple “he punches hard but not like them, and ESPECIALLY not like him”

My argument also isn't that they are completely equal to an even degree. Just that they nelong in the same tier of power

I’m not too acquainted with how vsbw separates tiers. I just saw this thread while surfing for scans and got the urge to join. To be quite honest with you, it is pretty damn ridiculous to say mirko hits harder than AFO, that I agree with you on. However you’re justifying it completely wrong.

I am speaking more within the general narrative frame of the story, that all might is in a different tier than AFO. However that pertains to vsbw scaling I’m clueless.

Can I link you to Viz Media's digital archive so you can reread the manga? Or maybe read it for the first time since you seem to only have MHA wiki fandom knowledge on the series based on everything you've said here.

I have read several pages of the ultra archive databook, the whole ultra analysis databook (had the raw japanese of certain pages translated), I've had Japanese speaking friends translate pages from the most recent guide book ultra age, I’ve read dekus hero analysis notes, I’ve read vigilantes twice over, mha multiple times over and went ahead and also translated some pages and read different translations from fan groups (which tend to unironically be more accurate than viz, excluding TCB). With actual, fluent Japanese speakers btw. Think I’ve had my fair share of mha content .

DS and Endeavor both had to give everything they had just to land some decent hits on AFO too. All Might actually straight up defeated and almost killed him in battle. So there's that too

again I don’t think this is relevanthe’s comparing their power. He is exclusively talking about their strength. Regardless of what exertion it took since in context that is the only thing that matters. What’ll speed rewind up the most. He places AM above DS who overpowered his prime state. Therefore AM>PAFO.

 

[AllForOne]

What makes you think he wasn’t attempting either?And what part in the series says death is the limit to what AFO steals?

The same part that says All For One isn't comparable to All Might

I mean yeah lol, the gut wound is the most obviously glaring wound he’s got. Other injuries like scrapes, bruises, abrasions and broken bones would only occur from beneath the clothing. AFO is fully clothed in that panel, and his clothing has an bunch of wrinkles and crevices in them—alongside the fact that the composition of the panel is done to look like an old VHS, so injuries wouldn’t be immediately noticeable therefore didn’t get drawn.

Powerscaler logic going brrrr.

Imagine calling a mangaka's artwork a mistake because it doesn't fit your agenda. Sorry, you're wrong. End of debate.

this isn’t a contradiction. Illustrative oversight can occur randomly. Remembering small details and accidentally, occasionally omitting them other times are not mutually exclusive . This isn’t really a contention. Especially when we know factually from the guy who fought him first hand that AFO had several injuries inflicted on him.

illustrative oversight = / = Sound argument

Come up with something better.

Why does this mean he didn’t have impact recoil back then? Gran Torinos statement does not specify. He only says “the quirks and tactics he’s using are different.” A general claim. In which case generalizations are prone to exceptions. We see him using spearlike bones, a quirk he had from way back when he was younger. Clearly signifying that not EVERY quirk of his is different or has been lost.

If he had Impact Recoil, he probably wouldn't have lost the first fight? It directly counters All Might's head-on fighting style, which overwhelmed All For One previously. All Might's whole schtick is being a powerhouse and bulldozing through attacks, even at the cost of injuries. This neuters his fighting capability, causing him to take ten times the damage he normally would.

Gran Torino also notably states this right after our first showing of the Impact Recoil quirk. This, along with shock absorption, was likely quirks he picked up after the original fight when he was forced to adapt his tactics.

That’s fine. He doesn’t need to hit as hard as all might to trouble him. The point here is the extent you’re trying to upscale him is based on unscalable events.

Dude... there is an entire tier in between his current rating and All Might's. That is a serious discrepancy. Especially when characters who are clearly beneath him in the hierarchy are getting the rating cause of doing damage to Shigaraki.

AFO knew Shigaraki was going to resist him, and he was pretty intent on fighting him in his Rewind state, even with Izuku possibly interfering too. That should narratively tell you he is in the same tier as Prime All Might scaling. He gets stronger, too, of course, after Shigaraki's rage amps him.

Keep in mind, Shigaraki is PAM with base stats. Quirks massively augment these. So AFO was going to fight Shigaraki with his quirks.

I want you to justify this likelihood. Why does it being the attack that damaged endeavor inherently necessitate or create a likelihood for it being the same quirk that damaged all might? The only similarity we know is the basic tactic. Talk smack, exploit your opponents rageful unfocused state. This can occur with any sort of quirk.

It's way more evidence than him using an unknown hax-based quirk to do the damage lol. This scene is a direct mirror of what happened to All Might twice.

All Might even acknowledges in the first chapter that only 'someone like All For One' could do damage like that to him. So he is very clearly referencing power in that statement, given that this was a huge foreshadowing of his nemesis.

What? He’s not just planning as a precaution lol, he’s planning because the outcome is to him, predetermined. That is why garaki says AFO KNEW (certainty) that defeat was inevitable. As in: he knew himself that he could not win. I have no idea how or what drove you to interpret the statement that disingenuously. Also think about what that actually means. AFO can literally conjure up and fuse all of his quirks together with Omni factor release, yet he still believes victory is impossible. If that doesn’t suggest a sizable gap then I genuinely just don’t know what to tell you.

It says he foresaw his downfall, which doesn't necessarily imply physical defeat. But rather the dismantling of his criminal enterprise, which we are specifically told is exactly what All Might did throughout his career as a hero.

Him beating AFO was just the finale of said downfall. Even if AFO won the fight what was he going to do? He can't take OFA so he has to keep All Might alive or somehow force him to transfer the quirk, which he would not do willingly.

All Might was also working with the authorities to apprehend AFO in the first place. So the number one hero getting defeated and captured would have launched a national manhunt to bring in All For One. Even with his strength, having an entire nation tear the country apart in search of him with 100% of its resources would have been a tough task. They absolutely could go international as well. Star and Stripe would have been the first one on his doorstep, given her intense admiration of All Might. He was even more cautious of fighting her than fighting Midoriya. Which should say a lot.

AFO was one man against the whole world at this point, and without Super Regeneration or the Nomu research, he would have eventually lost, even without factoring in All Might being against him if he started such a manhunt.

TLDR; If he won the fight, he still was going to need Shigaraki to complete his plan, and the world was not going to wait around for him to finish his preparations, given he took out their Symbol of Peace. THAT is why he was on the run. He was buying himself time to raise Shigaraki into a suitable vessel with All Might actively hunting him down.

again, what is this supposed to be refuting. If this is to correspond to what I said about the narrative parallel endeavor is set up to have with all might then it just doesn’t really contradict what I said. All might made him suffer and trashed him just as endeavor did.

Endeavor capitalized on Hawks, Jiro, and Tokoyami's work of bringing AFO into a crippled state. It's not really the same thing.

Even so, he did this without being massively above him by several tiers. Which should show All Might scaling above him to the degree the wiki pages are implying is pretty weird.

Endeavor COMPLETELY overwhelms AFO to the point he snapped several shields AFO had stacked together. Dragged him through various mountains, and turned him into a helpless ragdoll. If that doesn’t suggest a MASSIVE gap in power then I genuinely think the vsbw brain rot has poisoned your brain and made you lose sight of what actual power differences look like. And yeah in that moment, no matter how conditional or circumstantial it was, endeavor had a SIGNIFICANT advantage on AFO. That is objectively the case.

Ofc naturally I do not think endeavor should on average scale above AFO. But I fail to see how this is relevant—because we know PAM vs PAFO was completely isolated from the public eye. Whatever ass whooping AFO received would’ve been done under totally fair and equal circumstances. No quirk rebellions or anything. Just a tussle that AFO got greatly suffered in as per his own words. And as I said, he likely got trashed just as hard since that’s the set up behind endeavor doing so. It was a recreation of what all might already done hence why he says “relive”. So yeah this pretty much solidly entails all might was a good amount stronger.

Sorry what? We got Endeavor wanking now?

The conditions were literally that AFO had limited access to his quirks. That's a severe nerf in his situation when he gets his power from ALL of his quirks together. Of course, a rage-boosted Endeavor was able to overwhelm AFO while he was in a near defenseless state and struggling to stay alive without his life support system.

If I tie Michael Jordan's hands together before forcing him to play a game of Basketball and I win, does that mean I'm massively better than him at the game?

I'll let your brain-rot figure out the answer.

Endeavor only gets the upper hand after the quirk rebellion begins, and his mask is destroyed.

This is so beyond irrelevant. It does not matter DS was amped by inasa or was as powerful as he was due to optimal environment. AFO is comparing how that dark shadow, endeavor and all might all compare to Bakugo in their attack power; and he places all might in his own, higher bracket. He is comparing their POWER. How HARD THEY HIT. Not a totality skill set. Simple “he punches hard but not like them, and ESPECIALLY not like him”

DS attacked AFO two times, if you happen to have forgotten. Which you may have since you don't bother reading the source material.

The first time was completely without the Darkness amp and Inasa's wind, and it still spooked him and destroyed his mask. He's likely referring to that version, given he lumps in Endeavor, who only fought him Pre-Rewind.

I'm also pretty sure Tokoyami told AFO their prep plan to increase his power. So AFO would be well aware that the giant DS was not the normal DS.

This probably means he is placing DS and Endeavor as threats to his masked form. While listing All Might as the only true challenge to his Prime.

I’m not too acquainted with how vsbw separates tiers. I just saw this thread while surfing for scans and got the urge to join. To be quite honest with you, it is pretty damn ridiculous to say mirko hits harder than AFO, that I agree with you on. However you’re justifying it completely wrong.

I am speaking more within the general narrative frame of the story, that all might is in a different tier than AFO. However that pertains to vsbw scaling I’m clueless.

There is Country level (Prime AFO's current tier), followed by Large Country level, before we hit Continent level. (The tier Prime All Might, Deku, Shigaraki, and those who scale to Shigaraki are in)

My argument is that AFO should have SOMEWHAT relative scaling to All Might. Is he stronger than All Might? No. But he can challenge him unlike any other character in the series.

I have read several pages of the ultra archive databook, the whole ultra analysis databook (had the raw japanese of certain pages translated), I've had Japanese speaking friends translate pages from the most recent guide book ultra age, I’ve read dekus hero analysis notes, I’ve read vigilantes twice over, mha multiple times over and went ahead and also translated some pages and read different translations from fan groups (which tend to unironically be more accurate than viz, excluding TCB). With actual, fluent Japanese speakers btw. Think I’ve had my fair share of mha content .

I suppose it was simply an illustrative error on your part then.

again I don’t think this is relevanthe’s comparing their power. He is exclusively talking about their strength. Regardless of what exertion it took since in context that is the only thing that matters. What’ll speed rewind up the most. He places AM above DS who overpowered his prime state. Therefore AM>PAFO.

The only issue is that neither Endeavor nor DS by itself threatened his Prime state. DS had to be massively amped beforehand.

Yeah. AM > PAFO in pure power. My argument is simply that they are relative, as the story implies.

 

[Cube_85040]

The same part that says All For One isn't comparable to All Might

Making someone suffer in a fight doesn’t scream comparability. But this just sounds like bunch of burden switching, if you can’t prove what you are claiming then hitchens razor will just dismiss it. We can drop this point.

Also if this was your way of saying the point I’m making is based on non existent evidence, then you realize by saying this you are conceding that there’s no evidence AFO is unable to steal from dead bodies right? Lmao, I mean aside from the hitchens razor thing, you also just dropped the point yourself.

It says he foresaw his downfall, which doesn't necessarily imply physical defeat. But rather the dismantling of his criminal enterprise, which we are specifically told is exactly what All Might did throughout his career as a hero.

did you read the panel I linked? The Dr very explicitly says AFO knew his defeat was inevitable. The foresaw downfall line came well over a couple dozen chapters after that. And the structure of the sentence already sets the qualifier of after having his empire torn down, so we know the statement is referring to an actual fight rather than his enterprise.

Powerscaler logic going brrrr.

Imagine calling a mangaka's artwork a mistake because it doesn't fit your agenda. Sorry, you're wrong. End of debate.

???? Yeah mangaka make mistakes all the time. and I’ve explained why this would be one of them. “Nuh uh” isnt a refutation I fear.

Sorry what? We got Endeavor wanking now?

The conditions were literally that AFO had limited access to his quirks. That's a severe nerf in his situation when he gets his power from ALL of his quirks together. Of course, a rage-boosted Endeavor was able to overwhelm AFO while he was in a near defenseless state and struggling to stay alive without his life support system.

If I tie Michael Jordan's hands together before forcing him to play a game of Basketball and I win, does that mean I'm massively better than him at the game?

I'll let your brain-rot figure out the answer.

Endeavor only gets the upper hand after the quirk rebellion begins, and his mask is destroyed.

none, and I mean NONE of this is at all relevant to what I said. Reread it and try to actually comprehend the point being said. I promise you it’s not hard to get.

Dude... there is an entire tier in between his current rating and All Might's. That is a serious discrepancy. Especially when characters who are clearly beneath him in the hierarchy are getting the rating cause of doing damage to Shigaraki.

yeah and like I said later I agree this is stupid. But not because AFO is particularly close to all might. Mirko wasn’t doing damage to shigaraki before, but when we’re told shigaraki is beginning to accumulate damage and become less resilient to the point of staggering to attacks that he doesn’t even feel real pain to then it’s clear as day shigaraki just weakens. His strength is presented as super psychologically influenced, and his mind was all kinds of screwed up by that point. Mirko doesnt scale until shiggy hit that point. That is why when shigarakis body adapts he instantly one taps her.

DS attacked AFO two times, if you happen to have forgotten. Which you may have since you don't bother reading the source material.

The first time was completely without the Darkness amp and Inasa's wind, and it still spooked him and destroyed his mask. He's likely referring to that version, given he lumps in Endeavor, who only fought him Pre-Rewind.

I'm also pretty sure Tokoyami told AFO their prep plan to increase his power. So AFO would be well aware that the giant DS was not the normal DS.

This probably means he is placing DS and Endeavor as threats to his masked form. While listing All Might as the only true challenge to his Prime.

it definitely wouldn’t be the weaker version of dark shadow lol. He fought the amped version for the longest and took a SIGNIFICANT hit against him then proceeded to fight that same dark shadow for the next 3 or 4 chapters. His most consistent idea of dark shadows strength would be that amped version that overpowered his prime state, greatly damaged him, and rewound him several years. And contextually it should obviously be that way.

He’s currently going over his priorities based on what causes the most damage to him and how much focus they need due to how quickly he’s rewinding. Light of Baldur rewound him the most and endeavor forced him into rewinding to begin with. The referent is in regard to rewind and how it’s affected.

There is Country level (Prime AFO's current tier), followed by Large Country level, before we hit Continent level. (The tier Prime All Might, Deku, Shigaraki, and those who scale to Shigaraki are in)

My argument is that AFO should have SOMEWHAT relative scaling to All Might. Is he stronger than All Might? No. But he can challenge him unlike any other character in the series.

Isn’t this like, well over like 50x ap differencewtf.

The only issue is that neither Endeavor nor DS by itself threatened his Prime state. DS had to be massively amped beforehand.

Yeah. AM > PAFO in pure power. My argument is simply that they are relative, as the story implies

DS wasn’t that significantly boosted though. Like AFO felt that fear before dark shadow through the punch and the ultra age databook exclusively attributes the punching and damaging to dark shadow, as it uses the singular “he” pronouns rather than saying “they”. The anime website also does the same thing, which tells us that yeah inasas gale might’ve amped it, but dark shadow is capable of that anyways because it wasn’t THAT big of a boost to the point DS isn’t able to do it without it. Hence why the feat is given to him and him only. With the only contributions acknowledged were what gave him the conditions to release his full power to begin with.

If he had Impact Recoil, he probably wouldn't have lost the first fight? It directly counters All Might's head-on fighting style, which overwhelmed All For One previously. All Might's whole schtick is being a powerhouse and bulldozing through attacks, even at the cost of injuries. This neuters his fighting capability, causing him to take ten times the damage he normally would.

Not necessarily true. Impact recoil can just have limits to how much power it can reflect and all might could just attack before AFO could activate the quirk. This also doesn’t defeat the fact we don’t know what caused those injuries. You have no way of proving it was achieved through raw power and output.

Endeavor capitalized on Hawks, Jiro, and Tokoyami's work of bringing AFO into a crippled state. It's not really the same thing.

This isn’t relevant to what I said either dude oml. Endeavor, under the conditions, had a massive enough advantage (doesn’t matter how circumstantial is was) to completely and utterly overwhelm AFO in an identical fashion to all might. Which we know via the fact AFO says endeavor is making him relive those moments.

Yes endeavor had hella amps and AFO was nerfed. But the idea is the POWER GAP that opened between them. That power dynamic is what AFO and AM had in their first battle. That is what I’m trying to say. The power dynamic that was created when endeavor was rage amped and AFO was nerfed into oblivion, is the same sort of gap that existed between him and all might. AM vs AFO was an isolated 1v1, so this power dynamic existed without any inhibitions from either. And it was BEFORE all might went plus ultra and red gooped his brain matter. So now we know that a BASE PAM had a SIGNIFICANT power advantage akin to what endeavor had in that moment and trashed him just as hard.

And since as stated prior, endeavor violently overpowering AFO, according to the man himself, was actually a relived experience that he first had with base prime all might, we can say all might is much stronger than PAFO.

All Might was also working with the authorities to apprehend AFO in the first place. So the number one hero getting defeated and captured would have launched a national manhunt to bring in All For One. Even with his strength, having an entire nation tear the country apart in search of him with 100% of its resources would have been a tough task. They absolutely could go international as well. Star and Stripe would have been the first one on his doorstep, given her intense admiration of All Might. He was even more cautious of fighting her than fighting Midoriya. Which should say a lot.

all for one has a plethora of quirks, can change his face and blood. If all might died there nobody would have known it was him. Stop with the implications he was holding back, they are completely unfounded. He went into the fight knowing the dangers, knowing he was going to lose, and had been tracking and watching all mights growth since he was in America. In fact actually, ultra age databook blatantly says all mights strength made him feel a sense of crisis, and that all mights power completely exceeded what he previously thought. There is not a single reason to assume AFO wouldn’t happily kill all might if he could. Nobody would ever find out it was him.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Look, I also think Mirko having higher AP than AFO is stoobid but this ain't the argument. Disagree with OP

 

[MochOath]

how am i just now realizing the profiles have Mirko as top 4 in the verse

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

how am i just now realizing the profiles have Mirko as top 4 in the verse

Prime AFO on our profiles still speed blitzes the hell out of her, can attack her higher than her durability enables her to endure (Endeavor [not in plus ultra] level characters<weakened all might=<Weakened AFO<<Prime AFO), and, eith his speed advantage, will just steal her quirk before she can react

 

[AllForOne]

Prime AFO on our profiles still speed blitzes the hell out of her, can attack her higher than her durability enables her to endure (Endeavor [not in plus ultra] level characters<weakened all might=<Weakened AFO<<Prime AFO), and, eith his speed advantage, will just steal her quirk before she can react

It's blatantly hypocritical to give Mirko higher AP than Prime AFO when he is implied to have only All Might, Shigaraki, and Deku in front of him.

People need to put their lusts aside and think critically.

 

[AllForOne]

Look, I also think Mirko having higher AP than AFO is stoobid but this ain't the argument. Disagree with OP

What would you suggest then? Why not lost some reasoning?

Your vote is a mere formality without actual context behind your line of thinking.

 

[Damage3245]

It's blatantly hypocritical to give Mirko higher AP than Prime AFO when he is implied to have only All Might, Shigaraki, and Deku in front of him.

People need to put their lusts aside and think critically.

Don't be weird and accuse other people of being biased like this.

 

[AllForOne]

Don't be weird and accuse other people of being biased like this.

It's certainly some kind of bias to believe Mirko has any kind of comparability to All Might when All For One doesn't.

Narratively it makes zero sense and all of the arguments do not fit the story.

Continent level versus Country level is a MASSIVE gap.

 

[Cube_85040]

For as much as we bantered I agree, mirko absolutely should not be above AFO. The story spells it out for us that mirko even being able to touch ShigAFO is unusual and the damage she inflicted is a result of shigarakis body and mind becoming compromised from psychological instability. She’s then one shotted as soon as shigaraki recollects himself.

Mirko just prior was around endeavors level judging by how much she damaged the high ends which are comparable to hood. For her to suddenly and randomly sky rocket to becoming several times stronger out of NOWHERE without any of the prior “heroes get amped” precedents being fulfilled is just insane.

No plus ultra, no quirk awakening, no death amp, not a single thing that usually precedes an increase in power.

 

[AllForOne]

Making someone suffer in a fight doesn’t scream comparability. But this just sounds like bunch of burden switching, if you can’t prove what you are claiming then hitchens razor will just dismiss it. We can drop this point.

Also if this was your way of saying the point I’m making is based on non existent evidence, then you realize by saying this you are conceding that there’s no evidence AFO is unable to steal from dead bodies right? Lmao, I mean aside from the hitchens razor thing, you also just dropped the point yourself.

What the fudge are you even on about now?

did you read the panel I linked? The Dr very explicitly says AFO knew his defeat was inevitable. The foresaw downfall line came well over a couple dozen chapters after that. And the structure of the sentence already sets the qualifier of after having his empire torn down, so we know the statement is referring to an actual fight rather than his enterprise

It still doesn't explicitly imply AFO is not relative to All Might. Just that All Might is the stronger of the two, and AFO deduced he would be defeated at some point.

However, it doesn't mean that he necessarily expected the one-on-one fight we know went down. All Might ushered in a wave of heroism, and with his criminal empire torn down and remaining allies in hiding, All For One was going to lose, pitting just himself against the massive hero-filled society All Might created.

If All Might + multiple top pro heroes jumped Prime AFO at once, who do you think would win?

What actually happened was a private showdown, though. Cause All Might wanted to settle his beef personally. The only other person there was Gran Torino likely in a support role.

???? Yeah mangaka make mistakes all the time. and I’ve explained why this would be one of them. “Nuh uh” isnt a refutation I fear.

Who gave you the authority to dictate this lmfao? I'm saying it's not a mistake, and it's my word against yours in that case. Wanna know what I have that you don't? The fact that the fudging panel proves my point.

AFO had no major injuries before the headshot, and I highly doubt All Might wasn't throwing any punches before the final one. In other chapters AFO is shown using multiple growth formation quirks in his Prime. We know he had Rivet Stab, Spearlike Bones, the giant Screw quirk, the Face and Mouth quirks, and Hypertrophy.

Gran Torino in the Kamino fight says All Might's original fighting style is head-on attacking without dodging.

This LIKELY means All For One was throwing out attacks, and All Might was just simply powering through them like a champ. Which would probably piss off an egomaniac like AFO when the story tells us nobody before All Might could challenge All For One.

This is the pain and suffering he's talking about. Having his whole power fantasy destroyed by somebody who is actually on his level and overall statistically stronger with just one single quirk. The one quirk he couldn't steal.

TLDR: You don't get to decide what's a 'mistake' in media because you don't like the implications it makes.

yeah and like I said later I agree this is stupid. But not because AFO is particularly close to all might. Mirko wasn’t doing damage to shigaraki before, but when we’re told shigaraki is beginning to accumulate damage and become less resilient to the point of staggering to attacks that he doesn’t even feel real pain to then it’s clear as day shigaraki just weakens. His strength is presented as super psychologically influenced, and his mind was all kinds of screwed up by that point. Mirko doesnt scale until shiggy hit that point. That is why when shigarakis body adapts he instantly one taps her.

If PAM and PAFO were not somewhat relative, there would have been no need for the formality of a 'first fight' in the first place. Continental versus Country-level AP? All Might could fudging sneeze and accidentally kill AFO with that insane gap.

Narratively, this does not work. They fought. All Might was winning, but AFO pulled a cheap tactic to get an easy shot in on him cause he's petty. HOWEVER, All Might gets back up and scares the shit out of AFO before Plus Ultra'ing his ass with everything he's got.

AFO himself says he did not expect All Might to do what he did. It was the sheer level of willpower and determination AM had over AFO, which Nana points out in the flashback, where AFO is choke-holding her.

"Toshinori is crazier than you are."

Hmm. What does that imply, I wonder?

Isn’t this like, well over like 50x ap differencewtf.

My point is simply that Prime AFO should be continental via relativity. Is he continental to the same degree All Might is? Fudge no. But his being Base Country level makes zero sense when this mf wasn't killed instantly by All Might at the start of their first fight and lasted long enough to inflict the gut wound.

A continental character landing even a single casual hit on a country-level character would theoretically instantly kill them.

So even the final punch that defeated AFO only blew the top of his head off. The rest of his body survived to a point that he could be resuscitated later on.

DS wasn’t that significantly boosted though. Like AFO felt that fear before dark shadow through the punch and the ultra age databook exclusively attributes the punching and damaging to dark shadow, as it uses the singular “he” pronouns rather than saying “they”. The anime website also does the same thing, which tells us that yeah inasas gale might’ve amped it, but dark shadow is capable of that anyways because it wasn’t THAT big of a boost to the point DS isn’t able to do it without it. Hence why the feat is given to him and him only. With the only contributions acknowledged were what gave him the conditions to release his full power to begin with.

I'm talking about the prep time they gave Tokoyami if you don't recall. They placed him in a dark cocoon and let DS charge up while Hawks was distracting AFO for all those chapters.

The giant DS that damaged PAFO was supercharged and couldn't get to that level without the prep time and darkness boosting.

Not necessarily true. Impact recoil can just have limits to how much power it can reflect and all might could just attack before AFO could activate the quirk. This also doesn’t defeat the fact we don’t know what caused those injuries. You have no way of proving it was achieved through raw power and output.

You have zero proof AFO had Impact Recoil before the Kamino fight? When Gran Torino specifically says that AFO's loadout was significantly different than before??

AFO gave the USJ Nomu Shock Absorption specifically to counter All Might based on their first fight. Obviously, he chose Impact Recoil to keep for himself based on the same experience. That's why it's focused on in the Kamino fight. AFO changed his fighting style to adapt to All Might after their original fight.

This isn’t relevant to what I said either dude oml. Endeavor, under the conditions, had a massive enough advantage (doesn’t matter how circumstantial is was) to completely and utterly overwhelm AFO in an identical fashion to all might. Which we know via the fact AFO says endeavor is making him relive those moments.

Yes endeavor had hella amps and AFO was nerfed. But the idea is the POWER GAP that opened between them. That power dynamic is what AFO and AM had in their first battle. That is what I’m trying to say. The power dynamic that was created when endeavor was rage amped and AFO was nerfed into oblivion, is the same sort of gap that existed between him and all might. AM vs AFO was an isolated 1v1, so this power dynamic existed without any inhibitions from either. And it was BEFORE all might went plus ultra and red gooped his brain matter. So now we know that a BASE PAM had a SIGNIFICANT power advantage akin to what endeavor had in that moment and trashed him just as hard.

And since as stated prior, endeavor violently overpowering AFO, according to the man himself, was actually a relived experience that he first had with base prime all might, we can say all might is much stronger than PAFO.

You do understand that I'm not arguing All Might isn't stronger?? Just that they are in the same tier by virtue of being able to have a fight that doesn't instantly end because one character is several tiers above the other.

All Might is Continental to a higher degree than AFO. But not so much that AFO cannot fight him and inflict some damage.

all for one has a plethora of quirks, can change his face and blood. If all might died there nobody would have known it was him. Stop with the implications he was holding back, they are completely unfounded. He went into the fight knowing the dangers, knowing he was going to lose, and had been tracking and watching all mights growth since he was in America. In fact actually, ultra age databook blatantly says all mights strength made him feel a sense of crisis, and that all mights power completely exceeded what he previously thought. There is not a single reason to assume AFO wouldn’t happily kill all might if he could. Nobody would ever find out it was him.

Dude... he WANTS ONE FOR ALL. If he kills All Might, he loses it forever, unless your baseless claim of him being able to steal quirks from dead bodies is true.

AFO was either going to try to kidnap All Might while he was wounded or just dip out with bragging rights that he won the fight against the number one hero.

If he wanted to kill him, he would have aimed for the head. Armored All Might even points out the same thing in their third battle. AFO did not want to kill him while he still had OFA so he went for a crippling injury.

Which is exactly why he lost. All Might went for the fudging head.

https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/hospital-all-might-18000900.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=825&dpr=1.5

Also, refer to this image. Even IF AFO didn't inflict the gut injury with raw damage (which is making an assumption based on zero evidence, just as you claim I am doing). Then he certainly did cause all of these other injuries for AM in their battle.

Which proves my point that they are both Continental in their Primes.

 

[AllForOne]

For as much as we bantered I agree, mirko absolutely should not be above AFO. The story spells it out for us that mirko even being able to touch ShigAFO is unusual and the damage she inflicted is a result of shigarakis body and mind becoming compromised from psychological instability. She’s then one shotted as soon as shigaraki recollects himself.

Mirko just prior was around endeavors level judging by how much she damaged the high ends which are comparable to hood. For her to suddenly and randomly sky rocket to becoming several times stronger out of NOWHERE without any of the prior “heroes get amped” precedents being fulfilled is just insane.

No plus ultra, no quirk awakening, no death amp, not a single thing that usually precedes an increase in power.

Sorry for not directly responding to your reply. I was away and couldn't type out a full response.

 

[AllForOne]

Anybody else wanna debate, or am I unchallenged?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

am I unchallenged?

This isn't a discord or reddit debate. This is vswiki. You're still like 3 staff vote disagreements in so "unchallenged" doesn't work here.

 

[AllForOne]

This isn't a discord or reddit debate. This is vswiki. You're still like 3 staff vote disagreements in so "unchallenged" doesn't work here.

Can the staff please elaborate their thinking instead of simply replying with 'no'? Imagine using mod status as a way to decide debates. Old VSBW wasn't this political.

Anyway, I have the final databook and it confirms my arguments here. It talks about the first battle between Prime All Might and AFO as well as reveal some other interesting info.

The databook does confirm AFO and All Might both gave eachother numerous injuries in their first battle. So it isn't the one-sided glazing fanfiction propagated throughout this threads reply history.

Also, it confirms apparently All For One was regaining his quirks through Rewind's effects. So Rewind AFO has all of the quirks of his Prime self and is therefore equal to him as explained in my post.

This is why he suddenly gains the Glowing Baby's quirk while fighting Armored All Might. It wasn't because he randomly decided to use it lol.

If asked I will provide pictures and translations for proof. We can have it crosschecked by the translation team for further verification.