- 1,554
- 426
FTL Scaling
As far as I can tell, this is all sourced from two separate feats. Potentially three. The first feat is Sleuth deflecting a beam from Fluthlu, which can be seen here. https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/766
To get the obvious out of the way: this isn't a laser. This is a "necrotizing" beam that turns a painting mural into a bunch of monsters (https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/767). The only thing that resembles laserness here is that it's red and reflects off glass. Aside from that, it is literally a magic beam fired from an eyeball by a tentacle monster.
Secondly, the series is very clear about where its limits lie. Problem Sleuth, as comedic and cartoonish as it is, is a setting by one author with consistent mechanics. Consistent mechanics that rest around the speed of light being a physical limit to information.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1323
Starting from page 1323, the next rough 250 pages of the comic all rest on the speed of light being a physical limit for the characters. Circumventing this becomes the main puzzle of the story. The ultimate method they do this by being:
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1561
Relativity
Light as a limit is also joked about in the author's commentary for the book:
The only other conceivable argument I can see for FTL Problem Sleuth is that Sleuth covers "large portions of the universe" in relatively short timeframes. This is also, more or less, the same argument behind "Immeasurable" PS (I'll elaborate on that).
The main issue here is that the "portions of the universe" PS covers are not the main universe itself.
While this map does display the universe in its entirety, with an 18 billion long arc in the background, that background is reallyfar away. Explicitly so.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1079
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1182
I'll grant that we're never given a specific height for the characters, but these rooms are perhaps only around 6 meters tall each. In order to support a "billions of lightyears" view, you would have to accordingly argue that the cast is many millions of lightyears in height.
Plus, you can just see the buildings on the "planets". This isn't a large distance.
This argument also overlaps with PS destroying the "infinitely extending" health bar. More than likely, this is just referring to the fact that the bars regenerate infinitely. https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1538
The bars themselves clearly don't extend forever. They stop in Hell.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1527
And on top of all this, they couldn't extent forever even if they wanted to. Again, the universe is given a stated size. It's 18 billion lightyears across. Infinity can't fit in there.
(I almost forgot, the c limit is also brought up during a Comb Rave, which is way more powerful than any other move: https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1374)
Large Building level+
As far as I can tell, this is basically all sourced from assuming that Mobster Kingpin's "Megaton Key" actually weighs 1,000,000 tons. This isn't supported by anything in the comic.
The closest thing to a Large Building level+ feat in the comic is Imaginary PI tossing buildings at a beast.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/553
This is pretty legit, IMO. But Imaginary PI is also incredibly strong compared to most of the cast. Basically only the transformations seen in the final DMK fight would scale to this. The rest of the cast is way weaker.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/28
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/68
Keep in mind, the driving conflict of a vast majority of the comic is that PS and his cohorts are incapable of moving or destroying large, comedically placed stone busts of various celebrities.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/234
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/350
PI scaling to this is even more egregious. PI's physical ineptitude is his whole character concept. One of his recurring jokes is that he's incapable of using his trademark weapon because he's too weak to hold a machine gun.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/412
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/681
Even Ace Dick is incapable of opening metal hatches. It ends up taking two of him to bust down the door to Mobster Kingpin's office.
I could potentially see an argument that they get stronger (they do, literally, level up). But this is just too consistent across the comic.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/481
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/482
Hundreds of pages after it starts, PS is still explicitly incapable of even slightly moving a large stone bust.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/772
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/815
Even when it's building towards the endgame, PS and AD combined say there's "no way in hell" they can move a different bust.
Again, this bust is much smaller than a building. Now, yes, characters do end up destroying the busts. But...
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/832
Said character is Fiesta Ace Dick, who is also "the strongest guy on the team, but amped to be much stronger" and possibly the second strongest man in the entire universe.
Again, I'm stressing that these aren't just antifeats to a couple good feats. There simply aren't good feats. IPI is able to lift buildings, people stronger than him are. Those people are very endgame, and before then the cast is very consistently defined as "able to do some things, but moving heavy stones is out of the question".
Until something suitable can be found as a replacement, I think we should label their base speed and stats as "unknown". Sepulchritude PS might be relativistic scaling from IPI's Comb Rave, but it's kind of iffy. Every character that scales to or above IPI (such as the Halloween transformations and FAD) can likely keep their listings.
As far as I can tell, this is all sourced from two separate feats. Potentially three. The first feat is Sleuth deflecting a beam from Fluthlu, which can be seen here. https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/766
To get the obvious out of the way: this isn't a laser. This is a "necrotizing" beam that turns a painting mural into a bunch of monsters (https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/767). The only thing that resembles laserness here is that it's red and reflects off glass. Aside from that, it is literally a magic beam fired from an eyeball by a tentacle monster.
Secondly, the series is very clear about where its limits lie. Problem Sleuth, as comedic and cartoonish as it is, is a setting by one author with consistent mechanics. Consistent mechanics that rest around the speed of light being a physical limit to information.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1323
Starting from page 1323, the next rough 250 pages of the comic all rest on the speed of light being a physical limit for the characters. Circumventing this becomes the main puzzle of the story. The ultimate method they do this by being:
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1561
Relativity
Light as a limit is also joked about in the author's commentary for the book:
And is greatly elaborated upon in the "Science" section of the story's extras. (https://www.homestuck.com/faqs/science)
The only other conceivable argument I can see for FTL Problem Sleuth is that Sleuth covers "large portions of the universe" in relatively short timeframes. This is also, more or less, the same argument behind "Immeasurable" PS (I'll elaborate on that).
The main issue here is that the "portions of the universe" PS covers are not the main universe itself.
While this map does display the universe in its entirety, with an 18 billion long arc in the background, that background is reallyfar away. Explicitly so.
On top of this, we have a stated distance between the two "planets" seen in this image. It's 66,666 floors. https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1324
It's not as though these floors are just particularly large, either.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1079
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1182
I'll grant that we're never given a specific height for the characters, but these rooms are perhaps only around 6 meters tall each. In order to support a "billions of lightyears" view, you would have to accordingly argue that the cast is many millions of lightyears in height.
Plus, you can just see the buildings on the "planets". This isn't a large distance.
This argument also overlaps with PS destroying the "infinitely extending" health bar. More than likely, this is just referring to the fact that the bars regenerate infinitely. https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1538
The bars themselves clearly don't extend forever. They stop in Hell.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1527
And on top of all this, they couldn't extent forever even if they wanted to. Again, the universe is given a stated size. It's 18 billion lightyears across. Infinity can't fit in there.
(I almost forgot, the c limit is also brought up during a Comb Rave, which is way more powerful than any other move: https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/1374)
Large Building level+
As far as I can tell, this is basically all sourced from assuming that Mobster Kingpin's "Megaton Key" actually weighs 1,000,000 tons. This isn't supported by anything in the comic.
The closest thing to a Large Building level+ feat in the comic is Imaginary PI tossing buildings at a beast.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/553
This is pretty legit, IMO. But Imaginary PI is also incredibly strong compared to most of the cast. Basically only the transformations seen in the final DMK fight would scale to this. The rest of the cast is way weaker.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/28
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/68
Keep in mind, the driving conflict of a vast majority of the comic is that PS and his cohorts are incapable of moving or destroying large, comedically placed stone busts of various celebrities.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/234
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/350
PI scaling to this is even more egregious. PI's physical ineptitude is his whole character concept. One of his recurring jokes is that he's incapable of using his trademark weapon because he's too weak to hold a machine gun.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/412
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/681
Even Ace Dick is incapable of opening metal hatches. It ends up taking two of him to bust down the door to Mobster Kingpin's office.
I could potentially see an argument that they get stronger (they do, literally, level up). But this is just too consistent across the comic.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/481
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/482
Hundreds of pages after it starts, PS is still explicitly incapable of even slightly moving a large stone bust.
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/772
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/815
Even when it's building towards the endgame, PS and AD combined say there's "no way in hell" they can move a different bust.
Again, this bust is much smaller than a building. Now, yes, characters do end up destroying the busts. But...
https://www.homestuck.com/problem-sleuth/832
Said character is Fiesta Ace Dick, who is also "the strongest guy on the team, but amped to be much stronger" and possibly the second strongest man in the entire universe.
Again, I'm stressing that these aren't just antifeats to a couple good feats. There simply aren't good feats. IPI is able to lift buildings, people stronger than him are. Those people are very endgame, and before then the cast is very consistently defined as "able to do some things, but moving heavy stones is out of the question".
Until something suitable can be found as a replacement, I think we should label their base speed and stats as "unknown". Sepulchritude PS might be relativistic scaling from IPI's Comb Rave, but it's kind of iffy. Every character that scales to or above IPI (such as the Halloween transformations and FAD) can likely keep their listings.
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