Question about game frame rate

[Kellex]

The verse in particular I'm talking about is Asura's Wrath, but this may apply to other games with locked frame rates.

When I was checking out and recalculating some of Asura's Wrath feats, I've noticed that some calcs use either one of these frame rates: 60fps or 30fps.
30fps is Asura's Wrath original frame rate on the PS3 and Xbox 360, though the game runs best on Xbox Series X.
60fps on the other hand is only achievable via PC emulation, and most of the videos I've seen so far have a stable frame rate.

I tried to recalc this speed feat with a 60fps video instead and what I got was nearly double the results of the old calc because the beams appear instantaneous regardless of the fps.

So it makes me wonder about these calcs: can it even be used?

 

[KLOL506]

@DontTalkDT @Mr. Bambu @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Dalesean027

 

[Dalesean027]

Framerate in video is entirely dependent on your capture settings and either the hardware or software being used. If the native fps for the game is 30fps and you clipped it on Playstation for example then the capture would normally match the frame rate of the game and 30fps in a clip and ofc the same goes for if your game is at 60fps, but take being on PC so if the game natively runs 30fps but you've got your capture setting on like obs or some shit to capture 60fps all that does is create interpolation since recording 30 fps gameplay at 60 fps works by duplicating frames or creating a "fake" 60 fps file.


So unless the gameplay is 60fps AND the recording software is recording it at 60fps then I'd normally stick with 30fps since other its not really showing more its just doubling frames to create smoother video

 

[Armorchompy]

You can emulate a game to run at a faster frame rate than it was originally intended to but you should still use the one in the game itself, unless it's an official re-release that lets you up the framerate. Admittedly this gets weird for a modern pc release that'd let you do something like 160 fps. Anyways, in this case use 30.

 

[KLOL506]

Me personally I wouldn't care much about higher framerates via emulation as long as the main gameplay itself remains intact (Some games have physics tied to framerate so when the framerate is upped they become borderline unplayable, unless patches, official or otherwise, resolve the issue).

With native PC ports however the line gets blurred where framerate caps are not so much the intended way but rather just optimization issues (In which case I'd argue the engine's max FPS limit would be our designated cap).

If we're being that picky, why not go by timeframe in milliseconds instead of frames? Much better that way.

 

[KLOL506]

That brings me up to another question, what is our stance on game mods that fix game-breaking bugs or fix QoL features like resolution, mouse input, graphical options and texture mods, or fixing broken game textures, or even fixing compatibility issues? A lot of mods include all of these in a single package to bring it up to playable status on modern machines.

Because some of these bugs are definitely not the way devs intended for us to play said games.

 

[Dalesean027]

If we're being that picky, why not go by timeframe in milliseconds instead of frames? Much better that way.

Yeah I'm not really nitpicky about it, I've also got several game calcs that simply use the milliseconds rather than frame rate as well, framerate I think is more accessible for already uploaded videos unless you're like me and get the clips yourself in gameplay then its easier to get the frames yourself since you can do it on your own software

 

[Dalesean027]

That brings me up to another question, what is our stance on game mods that fix game-breaking bugs or fix QoL features like resolution, mouse input, graphical options and texture mods, or fixing broken game textures, or even fixing compatibility issues?

Minor fixes like that are fine as long as they aren't drastically altering gameplay or scenes or allowing you to do stuff you would not normally be able to do

 

[KLOL506]

Minor fixes like that are fine as long as they aren't drastically altering gameplay or scenes or allowing you to do stuff you would not normally be able to do

Yeah, most graphics mods, texture mods and bug fix mods are that (They don't change the core gameplay mechanics or alter the actual story by any way imaginable).

For example, WidescreenFixes by ThirteenAG allows broad compatibility fixes for a lot of 2000s era games that you otherwise would straight up be unable to launch on modern machines, they also include a humongous amount of bugfixes like memory allocation and stuff. SilentPatch also releases mods that fix up gameplay bugs that would otherwise leave the game softlocked from progressing further or suffer from hard crashes.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah I'm not really nitpicky about it, I've also got several game calcs that simply use the milliseconds rather than frame rate as well, framerate I think is more accessible for already uploaded videos unless you're like me and get the clips yourself in gameplay then its easier to get the frames yourself since you can do it on your own software

I personally try to get the clips myself, it's much better that way and you have control over the points of reference and little need to worry about fuzzy graphics, plus with software like VirtualDub2 I can get finer results on the timeframe or the framerates.

So in that case, I'd be fine using higher framerates for games originally capped to lower ones ONLY if the hardware is actually natively running them at that framerate and it's not being interpolated by recording software (Barring any sped-up physics because those make the game borderline unplayable anyway). But for accuracy's sake I'd recommend getting the timeframe in milliseconds instead of frames where possible (In most cases I'd also recommend just ripping the video from the site and then using actual separate software to measure the timeframes as that leads to greater control and accurate results most of the time).

On native PC ports with no framerate caps, we honestly can't really assign a limit to them and they can vary wildly (Since performance dips exist in intensive areas), so milliseconds it shall be for them.

 

[Armorchompy]

Me personally I wouldn't care much about higher framerates via emulation as long as the main gameplay itself remains intact (Some games have physics tied to framerate so when the framerate is upped they become borderline unplayable, unless patches, official or otherwise, resolve the issue).

Well, you should. If the feat happens in one frame it's a way to artificially inflate a feat with no real upper boundary other than how much your PC can handle. For anything that's more than that it doesn't do much and there's no harm with using a 60 FPS youtube video or something for a feat that takes half a second, but in that specific instance you absolutely should stick to actual game framerates.

If we're being that picky, why not go by timeframe in milliseconds instead of frames? Much better that way.

Frames are how the game actually works. You'd be switching to a worse method.

 

[Kellex]

why not go by timeframe in milliseconds instead of frames?

I think I have been doing that also, but I probably need a reminder on how that works since I just started calculating feats.

I personally try to get the clips myself, it's much better that way and you have control over the points of reference and little need to worry about fuzzy graphics, plus with software like VirtualDub2 I can get finer results on the timeframe or the framerates.

I've used a frame by frame player from whythetrick to check how many milliseconds have passed and it doesn't seem to be consistent with 1/4th being 10 milliseconds apart to 3/4 being 20 milliseconds apart with 60fps. Similar thing happens with 30fps except it's between mostly 30 to sometimes 40 milliseconds. Maybe VirtualDub is better so I'll give it a check.

Well, you should. If the feat happens in one frame it's a way to artificially inflate a feat with no real upper boundary other than how much your PC can handle. For anything that's more than that it doesn't do much and there's no harm with using a 60 FPS youtube video or something for a feat that takes half a second, but in that specific instance you absolutely should stick to actual game framerates.

Yeah, which is why I only mentioned the 2 frame-one beams in my original post and not the other feats.
If we're going with 30fps, then this feat would need a recalc although I could probably do it myself since the information's already there. Just gotta make sure to use footage from a Xbox Series X/S cause the game fps dips frequently on the OG PS3 and Xbox 360.

 

[Breadbear83]

Some games are indeed even coded at 60FPS, for example FNAF ultimate custom night has the animatronics movements coded into moving every certain amounts of frames in 60FPS

However unless you can prove the game moved at 60FPS, should be assumed 30FPS due to many videos that can show the feats having them at that frameratr

 

[KLOL506]

How do we treat games that have unlocked framerates by default, like most modern PC games.

 

[Breadbear83]

How do we treat games that have unlocked framerates by default, like most modern PC games.

Dunno if good argument but usually, if you mean those that by going to settings let's you choose the FPS cap (like Minecraft) generally before you changing it, by default it may say "60FPS" which is the standard that the game is by default

 

[KLOL506]

Dunno if good argument but usually, if you mean those that by going to settings let's you choose the FPS cap (like Minecraft) generally before you changing it, by default it may say "60FPS" which is the standard that the game is by default

Not all games go that route, most of them these days default to whatever your monitor can handle. AKA Auto.

 

[Breadbear83]

Not all games go that route, most of them these days default to whatever your monitor can handle. AKA Auto.

Well then that's varies to fit the monitors

Vast majority of PC monitors are 60hz (handle at most 60FPS) with commonly even higher up to 144hz

Hovewer TVs (for consoles) and screens for handled consoles usually stay at 30FPS

Most videogames have then at computers, and the developers itself were making the videogame in computers

I'd say, in that case, the standard can be 60FPS

 

[Dalesean027]

Well then that's varies to fit the monitors

Vast majority of PC monitors are 60hz (handle at most 60FPS) with commonly even higher up to 144hz

Hovewer TVs (for consoles) and screens for handled consoles usually stay at 30FPS

Most videogames have then at computers, and the developers itself were making the videogame in computers

I'd say, in that case, the standard can be 60FPS

Its really not this complicated there is no one standard and if you want to run a billion frames for you games then discard frames from the calc and go by the milliseconds of the footage, we don't need artificial inflation. This isn't that complicated its a simple matter of not being ratty about stuff