Questions about DC

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

1. 1: The Monitors referred to Presence as God... Not Over monitor... That is interesting. It was in final crisis, just need toindthe scan so we can discuss , but how would one explain this ? Would this imply that Over monitor views the sphere itself that Yahweh held as fiction , not Yahweh himself ?

1. 2 ( based on #1 ) Would this give a suitable upgrade for the Presence level deities, as we have no evidence ( just inferences and implications ) that Overmonitor's avatar , and what he views as a speck, is Presence. One can argue that Lucifer's statement was in comparison to himself, as he stated many mes that the Presence had infinite power, but never directly or even indirectly compared Overmonitor & Presence

1. 2: Pandora was warping Vertigo, DC , and Wildstorm into the New 52 Multiverse via the Speed Force casually .Would this correlate to AP ? And to what tier ? Sorry, but I am having a hard time determining what tier this would be.

1. 3: How come Soulfire Darkseid isn't on his site ?

1. 4: How would one rate Gog based on these feats : Fought Death of the New Gods Infinity Nan, who took on the darkness equivalent of the Source. Had the powers of the full of Quintessence, Source , Zeus , and a few others . Easily kept up wit Kingdom Come Flash, saying he was too slow. Broke a hole in Hyoertime and oneshotted Mxy ( albeit he wasn't paying attention )

 

[Antvasima]

Soulfire Darkseid is impossible to gauge properly, as the "Death of the New Gods" event did not fit into Final Crisis, and the Source was portrayed in a manner that completely contradicted all other appearances.

Gog cannot be scaled from true form Highfather or Mxyzptlk. He never remotely demonstrated power on their scale. We have to consider it as extreme inconsistency from writer to writer.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Yeah, I agree. However, there are 2-3 different versions of Gog, each way diffferent from each other ( In Backstory , Appeareance , Origins , Powerset , etc ) . The only simularity each have is their hate for superman , Meeting with Gog, and the appeareance of the staff . The strongest is Williams [ AKA: The one who has uber-level feats ] , which showed TBH the greatest level of feats in that series of comics, and was considered to be Gog's strongest servant, so he was obviously intended to be far above the rest of the avatars of Gog . The others are much much weaker. I recommend putting Gog with different keys if this is an issue, as they are very different .

I don't really care about Soulfire, just a question.

Ha the Presence and Overmonitor question be answered previously ? Just wondering ..

 

[Antvasima]

I do not have an opinion about Presence and the Overmonitor questions, but think that Pandora has been scaled from being able to destroy all 52 universes.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Aww... I wanted your personal opinion. Oh well then...

Pandora was responsible for causing New 52 : Merging DC, Vertigo, and Wildstorm into New 52 directly, even confirmed in a interview . Phantom Stranger even confirmed that she was supposed to be punished for it, but she doesn't fear him or "HIs master", which is obviously referencing the Presence, but only fears her puppetmasters. Who are they , i do not know.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Would appreciate possible opinions on Presence and Overmonitor stuff...

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the Presence is still a character within the story drawn on the paper/The Overmonitor.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

That would literally mean he's weaker than the Writer, which is supported by The Presence's own statement. The Overmonitor is just a thing that views DC Creation as a tiny speck and encompasses all of reality , but that shouldn't include Yahweh, as he also views creation in a similar way , and never once acknowledges Overmonitor in the entire story arc as being stringer than him, but Lucifer acknowledges it is boundless compared to his own self. We have no idea if Overmonitor is even connected to the Presence Ant, it was just an assumption due to both being called God before, which to me makes me think they should be comparable.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the Presence has stated that he was shaped by external forces that are the imagination of mankind. That makes him comparatively limited.

However, you can ask Matthew to reply here if you wish.

 

[AndrewBennet]

If I remember correctly , Elaine when she replaced the presence also viewed the DC creation as a size of an ant and all the other creations in the void were rising and falling just due to her flapping her wings .

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"1: The Monitors referred to Presence as God... Not Over monitor... That is interesting. It was in final crisis, just need toindthe scan so we can discuss , but how would one explain this ? Would this imply that Over monitor views the sphere itself that Yahweh held as fiction , not Yahweh himself ?"

I don't what the problem is here. The Presence is referred to as God... Because he is God. The Overmonitor is a primal void, it can't even be classified as sentient.

"2 ( based on #1 ) Would this give a suitable upgrade for the Presence level deities, as we have no evidence ( just inferences and implications ) that Overmonitor's avatar , and what he views as a speck, is Presence."

No. We have legitimate confirmation that The Presence was born from The Void.

"One can argue that Lucifer's statement was in comparison to himself, as he stated many mes that the Presence had infinite power, but never directly or even indirectly compared Overmonitor & Presence"

The Presence being "Omnipotent" to Lucifer Morningstar doesn't mean it is a Tier 0, specially when it has defined equals and limitations to his Omniscience. A 3-A Reality Warper would certainly seem Omnipotent to us, but that doesn't make it Omnipotent.

"2: Pandora was warping Vertigo, DC , and Wildstorm into the New 52 Multiverse via the Speed Force casually .Would this correlate to AP ? And to what tier ? Sorry, but I am having a hard time determining what tier this would be."

I need to read more on Flashpoint and Trinity War since it relates a lot to the power of Dr. Manhattan. Not qualified to answer this just yet.

"3: How come Soulfire Darkseid isn't on his site ?"

Because it's completely inconsistent with everything else. The Source is a malevolent speaking deity who directly interferes in the story and looks like the In-Betweener.

"4: How would one rate Gog based on these feats : Fought Death of the New Gods Infinity Nan, who took on the darkness equivalent of the Source. Had the powers of the full of Quintessence, Source , Zeus , and a few others . Easily kept up wit Kingdom Come Flash, saying he was too slow. Broke a hole in Hyoertime and oneshotted Mxy ( albeit he wasn't paying attention )"

Seems High 2-A if these feats are true and consistent.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Matthew, with the exception that, although Gog was considerably more powerful than Superman during Mark Waid's "The Kingdom" miniseries, I think that he was also eventually defeated by regular superheroes, and shooting Mxyzptlk's avatar from behind seems to be the same type of outlier as a Zatanna copy and Superboy Prime torturing Mxy during Countdown.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, does the Overmonitor page still state that other manifestations of "God" are its avatars? If so, it might be best if we remove the footnote.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah, that is outdated.

 

[Antvasima]

I will remove it then.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Breaking a hole in Hypertime. Being beyond the power of the Quintessence , and having all those powers seem to imply far greater .

 

[Antvasima]

The Quintessence were the ones who empowered Gog, but the series treated Ganthet as an equal to Highfather, so I think that it is safe to say that we have to consider the latter as an avatar, and that Mark Waid severely downgraded Mxyzptlk.

Gog is too hard to gauge properly, given the lack of explicit feats, and as such should preferably not get a profile.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Gog is too hard to gauge properly, given the lack of explicit feats, and as such should preferably not get a profile."

You mean like killing Superman hundreds of times?

He's really not that hard to gauge from what I've seen of him, and I'm fully willing to read through his (Admittedly very few) appearances to verify his power.

 

[Antvasima]

I mean that he is obviously far stronger than Superman, i.e. at least 4-B, but we cannot remotely gauge him as High 2-A, as that would have made it impossible to stop him in the first place.

However, your help would, of course, be appreciated.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Wasn't that only with his super special staff? Regardless, I do agree that High 2-A is very outlierish.

I'm just saying that he's nowhere near inconsistent enough to not get a page.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to properly analyse him then.