[R3M4] Laser Frogman vs Turbo Mecha Sonic

[MintyBoi1]

I think Mecha has better odds here with his amps, technology manip resistance, likely comparable if not better AP, and abilities like info analysis and forcefields. Though the point of ESP seems null since it’s specified to only work on Chaos Energy. Frogman has some good strategies and his own amps plus damage reduction, but it seems he’ll be overwhelmed by the robots speed and brutal intent. I also don’t think he really has an answer to Chaos Blast which Mecha Sonic could pull out and wipe him out with. And if Frogman manages to get through his forcefields, he could use his aura which has a pushback and makes electricity crackle around his body if there’s not enough time to teleport. Something I noticed that’s not been mentioned yet is Mecha Sonic’s flight which would also be good since Frogman needs tech to replicate that ability and flying vs non flying is always a bit skewed one way. He also has absorption, though it’s only been used on a taser so who knows if it could absorb Frog’s lasers.

Count me for Turbo Mecha Sonic

 

[Javenplayz253]

I think Mecha has better odds here with his amps, technology manip resistance, likely comparable if not better AP, and abilities like info analysis and forcefields. Though the point of ESP seems null since it’s specified to only work on Chaos Energy. Frogman has some good strategies and his own amps plus damage reduction, but it seems he’ll be overwhelmed by the robots speed and brutal intent. I also don’t think he really has an answer to Chaos Blast which Mecha Sonic could pull out and wipe him out with. And if Frogman manages to get through his forcefields, he could use his aura which has a pushback and makes electricity crackle around his body if there’s not enough time to teleport. Something I noticed that’s not been mentioned yet is Mecha Sonic’s flight which would also be good since Frogman needs tech to replicate that ability and flying vs non flying is always a bit skewed one way. He also has absorption, though it’s only been used on a taser so who knows if it could absorb Frog’s lasers.

Count me for Turbo Mecha Sonic

counted I have some hope for frog though so I won't be voting tho

 

[Froggytron]

He doesn’t need to sever the limbs, just damage them enough that frogman’ll be forced to let go of his weapon, and good luck getting anything off before he teleports out when he’s going to lead with amping and blitzing. The tongue heat isn’t going to one-shot anyway

Biological Manip is here to alter the body in a way that still holds the Bazooka. And even if not, what about Telekinesis? With the supreme LS of Frogman, Mecha won't move with it.

The maneuvers are pretty simple, and amping with the chaos emeralds doesn’t need him to curl into a ball, the light speed attack consists of him curling into a ball at the start, sure, but he can move around normally after charging it, he’s not forced to stay as a ball

How long it take until he charges energy in the ball form to reach higher speeds?

The profiles don’t say anything about light speed attacks, (No, them being lasers wouldn’t automatically make them light speed, light speed standards are pretty strict and the frog’s lasers almost certainly wouldn’t qualify)

But the images from 2020 are direct proof. There wasn't a point in writing that at the profile, as 7-C Frogmen really aren't meeting 7-C's amping to lightspeed, Frogmen mainly wanna damage instead. This provisionary solution goes from Frgoman's knowledge of Green Laser Bazooka and from the principles of how it operates, Green Laser Shards emit a "green damaging light" upon shattering, which is a light going damage.

if it specifically has to be set to do so, then it doesn’t help against getting blitzed)

It can be set with a single thought of Frogman pretty much. Green Laser Bazooka is a sci-fi tech weapon, not only through buttons but it can be configured by the mind of Frogman as well. Also, the profile directly mentions 'Light Manipulation and Homing Attack with Laser Bazooka', Laser Bazooka operates at lightspeed, and being set on automatic fire really isn't a new power or tech manipulation. I can still expand the section once this fight is over...

Also the frogman’s profile notes he’s a primarily close-ranged fighter, and if he does realize he needs to go ranged it’s going to be after Mecha has started blitzing him and likely already dealt with his primary method of ranged combat)

Yet it is also directly written they are "yet cautious of opponents having greater melee advantage than them", given that in key2 their biggest option is ranged, and the opponent is strongest in melee, the tactic is set.

+ You never mention bypassing the double Green Laser Frogman generates around himself, getting through it each time while blitzing will be highly damaging and will cause the component failure effect greatly. While the describing image has one (showing FU Android), this one showing Stage 1 with equipment has 2 layers, which can be also used for offense, shooting the outer shield in the area around.

Also, why do I feel you are mentioning Mecha's forcefields every time, but you are avoiding Frogman's forcefields almost every reply? Not only a single Green Laser forcefield being altered is at least as strong as Mecha's one, but there are two of them around Frogman. They also can be generated again and again at green laser true speeds with lower energy, requiring Mecha to tear through 4x solid Green Laser walls every single attack he blitzes. Given the component failure rate of direct contact with it, this undoubtedly is the biggest way protecting Frogman from blitzing even if Mecha's components are extremely durable, why is this so avoided?

 

[Froggytron]

Though the point of ESP seems null since it’s specified to only work on Chaos Energy.

Technology manip resistance is also mostly Chaos Energy based too, given it only originates from being almost immune to Chaos Emerald's side effects.

I also don’t think he really has an answer to Chaos Blast which Mecha Sonic could pull out and wipe him out with.

With enough time, orbiting mode 3 shots around Frogman could tank it down with all other defensive. If not, Frogman's core will BFR, and Frogman will come in a few days with 86% of original stats. And Mecha could run down on Chaos Emeralds in the fights while Frogman is coming back, repeatedly.

Aura which has a pushback and makes electricity crackle around his body if there’s not enough time to teleport. Something I noticed that’s not been mentioned yet is Mecha Sonic’s flight which would also be good since Frogman needs tech to replicate that ability and flying vs non flying is always a bit skewed one way. He also has absorption, though it’s only been used on a taser so who knows if it could absorb Frog’s lasers.

True flight and a pushback aura could definitely help. But there are still double Green Laser forcefields of Frogman non-stop generating (greatly helping against the blitz) and likely causing component failure while being repeatedly bypassed, as it's a technical thing rather than a magic energy based as Chaos Emerald. Even if Frogman ends up losing, it should be with all possibilities and strengths mentioned.

PS: Javen also mentioned Incon being voteable as well, for those not wanting to vote for a specific side given how tight it is.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Technology manip resistance is also mostly Chaos Energy based too, given it only originates from being almost immune to Chaos Emerald's side effects.

With enough time, orbiting mode 3 shots around Frogman could tank it down with all other defensive. If not, Frogman's core will BFR, and Frogman will come in a few days with 86% of original stats. And Mecha could run down on Chaos Emeralds in the fights while Frogman is coming back, repeatedly.

True flight and a pushback aura could definitely help. But there are still double Green Laser forcefields of Frogman non-stop generating (greatly helping against the blitz) and likely causing component failure while being repeatedly bypassed, as it's a technical thing rather than a magic energy based as Chaos Emerald. Even if Frogman ends up losing, it should be with all possibilities and strengths mentioned.

PS: Javen also mentioned Incon being voteable as well, for those not wanting to vote for a specific side given how tight it is.

The technology resistance should be fair given how much power the Emeralds hold and TSM being unaffected by them. I think it’d let him resist a virus or something similar.

Chaos Blast could wipe multiple people on Mecha’s level, so Frogman would likely be damaged even with his forcefields and bones added. I don’t think he can really run down Mecha either by coming back given he “Can rap and fight against numerous opponents back-to-back while searching for the emeralds without any form of rest or showing any signs of fatigue, could slaughter all of the life on Mobius, an entire planet.”

Mecha does have ways of attacking that don’t have to let him get close enough for breakdown. He has energy projection and arm cannons. I think this is very close, but I’m leaning TMS.

 

[Froggytron]

I don’t think he can really run down Mecha either by coming back given he “Can rap and fight against numerous opponents back-to-back while searching for the emeralds without any form of rest or showing any signs of fatigue, could slaughter all of the life on Mobius, an entire planet.”

It's true this is just, immersing.

Further votes are highly appreciated, both sides have walls of arguments. Current status: Frogman: 1, Incon: 0, Turbo Mecha Sonic: 2.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Biological Manip is here to alter the body in a way that still holds the Bazooka. And even if not, what about Telekinesis? With the supreme LS of Frogman, Mecha won't move with it.

How long it take until he charges energy in the ball form to reach higher speeds?

But the images from 2020 are direct proof. There wasn't a point in writing that at the profile, as 7-C Frogmen really aren't meeting 7-C's amping to lightspeed, Frogmen mainly wanna damage instead. This provisionary solution goes from Frgoman's knowledge of Green Laser Bazooka and from the principles of how it operates, Green Laser Shards emit a "green damaging light" upon shattering, which is a light going damage.

It can be set with a single thought of Frogman pretty much. Green Laser Bazooka is a sci-fi tech weapon, not only through buttons but it can be configured by the mind of Frogman as well. Also, the profile directly mentions 'Light Manipulation and Homing Attack with Laser Bazooka', Laser Bazooka operates at lightspeed, and being set on automatic fire really isn't a new power or tech manipulation. I can still expand the section once this fight is over...

Yet it is also directly written they are "yet cautious of opponents having greater melee advantage than them", given that in key2 their biggest option is ranged, and the opponent is strongest in melee, the tactic is set.

Also, why do I feel you are mentioning Mecha's forcefields every time, but you are avoiding Frogman's forcefields almost every reply? Not only a single Green Laser forcefield being altered is at least as strong as Mecha's one, but there are two of them around Frogman. They also can be generated again and again at green laser true speeds with lower energy, requiring Mecha to tear through 4x solid Green Laser walls every single attack he blitzes. Given the component failure rate of direct contact with it, this undoubtedly is the biggest way protecting Frogman from blitzing even if Mecha's components are extremely durable, why is this so avoided?

How exactly is biological manip supposed to help with his arms being ripped apart?

Iirc it’s only a few seconds, and seeing as Mecha’s blitzing already, a few seconds from his perspective might as well be instant from Frogman’s POV

They’re really not, being called light isn’t proof of being light speed (Light speed standards are really strict), usually directly being stated to being made of photons, as well as several other criteria is required

A single thought against someone who’s going to mess him up before he can think, and again, nothing about being controlled with the mind on the profile

Sure, but frogman won’t know of Mecha’s combat ability until he’s already been blitzed and likely had his primary ranged method of attack removed

I’ve acknowledged the frog’s force fields, the problem is even if they reduced damage by as much as you say, despite nothing on the profile suggesting so, Mecha’s going to be landing so many individual attacks that they’re going to add up to major damage either way, the component failure is resisted, so Mecha’s really just punching through normal force fields


As for the stuff about chaos energy, his ESP is kinda just poorly worded on my part, he doesn’t just sense chaos energy, shown by Zardy being able to trick his sensors by manipulating a different kind of energy, and he could sense Solazar’s power despite him not possessing chaos energy

Tech manip resistance isn’t specifically resisting chaos energy, it’s resisting his parts being overloaded/damaged, he should be able to resist the green lasers (Also the emeralds aren’t stated to be magic at any point, so I’m not sure what that’s supposed to mean)

As Minty pointed out, Mecha has more than enough stamina to keep going if the frog gets a BFR off and returns within a week, and will likely have had some time to recoup and recover, so while the frog is going to be weaker, Mecha will still be in peak condition

The forcefields are going to be destroyed very quickly by Mecha’s overwhelming speed (Up to hundreds of times with a light speed attack) at next to no cost to Mecha given he resists their main offensive hax


Also unrelated but I hate the mobile version of this site so much

 

[Froggytron]

Green laser crystals are growing underground, consuming nutrients from the planet, together with the light hitting the landspace of said planet. Originally the green laser segments carefully cut from these crystals (while shattered) should have emitted a green highly radioactive light to all sides, simply damaging all objects it's glowing at.

Laser Bazooka is a sci-fi weapon using these mined crystal fragments instead of bullets and with the specialized mirror system built inside, able to guide 100% of the "evil light photons" into the crystal at the end, which slows them down by massively greatening their destructive potency. That's how those massive explosive beams exit from the weapon.

Are they (before converting) taken as lightspeed by Wiki standards? I dunno. But in a real fight of Stage 1 with Laser Bazooka and Mecha Sonic, Stage 1 could use this knowledge to deactivate the converting crystal right away, to do at least some damage to super-fast amped Sonic.

 

[Froggytron]

From this point, I would give the result to the votes. I just wanted to explain all possible arguments, as now there is hardly any more to say for Stage 1, both sides have their strengths and views.

 

[Soupywolf5]

Green laser crystals are growing underground, consuming nutrients from the planet, together with the light hitting the landspace of said planet. Originally the green laser segments carefully cut from these crystals (while shattered) should have emitted a green highly radioactive light to all sides, simply damaging all objects it's glowing at.

Laser Bazooka is a sci-fi weapon using these mined crystal fragments instead of bullets and with the specialized mirror system built inside, able to guide 100% of the "evil light photons" into the crystal at the end, which slows them down by massively greatening their destructive potency. That's how those massive explosive beams exit from the weapon.

Are they (before converting) taken as lightspeed by Wiki standards? I dunno. But in a real fight of Stage 1 with Laser Bazooka and Mecha Sonic, Stage 1 could use this knowledge to deactivate the converting crystal right away, to do at least some damage to super-fast amped Sonic.

I believe the fact that they can make explosions alone would be enough to disqualify them from being light speed, and while the standards have changed a few times, I think they've only gotten stricter, so idk

 

[Froggytron]

I believe the fact that they can make explosions alone would be enough to disqualify them from being light speed, and while the standards have changed a few times, I think they've only gotten stricter, so idk

The explosions are also namely caused by the crystal filter, without it it's a "damaging light". More advanced canons based on Laser Bazooka principles meant to shoot at other planets often have additional crystal filters to add attributes to the end projectiles, such as speed-amping crystal filters (which this smallest version doesn't possess).

That's also why end-result beams from the base crystal filter are far from lightspeed, although still very fast compared to normal bullets. Without the crystal filter rewriting it, the "damaging light" could help Frogman, mainly mode 5 shattering the most crystals in a row => biggest light flash.

 

[Soupywolf5]

The explosions are also namely caused by the crystal filter, without it it's a "damaging light". More advanced canons based on Laser Bazooka principles meant to shoot at other planets often have additional crystal filters to add attributes to the end projectiles, such as speed-amping crystal filters (which this smallest version doesn't possess).

That's also why end-result beams from the base crystal filter are far from lightspeed, although still very fast compared to normal bullets. Without the crystal filter rewriting it, the "damaging light" could help Frogman, mainly mode 5 shattering the most crystals in a row => biggest light flash.

Yeah, I don’t think filtering light to make it explode looks very good for being light speed, the fact that they also don’t meet any of the criteria doesn’t help

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

As much as I’m a fan of frogman, I think I’ll have to vote for Mecha FRA here

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Bump

 

[Javenplayz253]

As much as I’m a fan of frogman, I think I’ll have to vote for Mecha FRA here

Counted

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Votes are 3-1, pretty sure there needs to be a 4th vote now for grace

 

[Javenplayz253]

Votes are 3-1, pretty sure there needs to be a 4th vote now for grace

Mech fra and grace

 

[MintyBoi1]

Good fight

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

mecha FRA

 

[Froggytron]

As Minty pointed out, Mecha has more than enough stamina to keep going if the frog gets a BFR off and returns within a week, and will likely have had some time to recoup and recover, so while the frog is going to be weaker, Mecha will still be in peak condition

Good fight

Mech fra and grace

Congrats to Mecha for winning this wild fight and advancing in the tourney!

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

It’s only Frogman’s second ever loss incredible win rate!

 

[MintyBoi1]

Added the match to Mecha Sonic’s Profile. I have a feeling Froggy wants to add all the details to LF’s profile himself so I won’t touch it.

 

[Froggytron]

Added the match to Mecha Sonic’s Profile. I have a feeling Froggy wants to add all the details to LF’s profile himself so I won’t touch it.

Result added to Laser Frogman profile.