[Re:Zero] Cecilus & Halibel Revision

[Zabazab]

An update to Cecilus Segmunt's and Halibel's profiles based on some recent revisions and the like.

Sandbox Page

Halibel's current page
Cecilus's current page

Additionally, I'm proposing an upgrade to the lifting strength of the god tiers of the verse, following verse-wide lifting strength revisions. Scaling will be the same, as it comes from a feat by the same character (Reinhard), except it will be Class E.

Volcanica's dragonhusk is far superior to Mezoreia's dragonhusk, and Mezoreia's dragonhusk performed this Class E feat. Volcanica's possessed dragonhusk later used superweight-generating magic to crush a nerfed Reinhard van Astrea with gravity, but he overcame it through sheer strength.

Spoiler: Characters Affected

• Reinhard van Astrea
• Satella of Envy
• Reid Astrea
• Volcanica
• Sekhmet of Sloth
• Cecilus ([Oboreru key], possibly [Canon key])
• Halibel (possibly)
• 5th Shackle Ram (½ Value)

That's pretty much it. Feel free to ask questions or suggest changes.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Its fine.

 

[Fezzih_007]

This should be good.

Just in the Cecilus quotes, instead of Quote 1 and Quote 2, just abbreviate to 1 and 2.

 

[Trxyway]

Looks good

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Fine by me

 

[Gigi_4_life]

Perfect!

I only disagree with one thing: Cecilus having improved swordsmanship in Oboreru


It's already been accepted that main story Cecilus is equal to Reinhard in skill and so this would mean Oboreru Cecilus is more skilled than Reinhard? Well I'm not entirely against that, but I don't think there's any difference between the different Cecilus's, as the entire point of Cecilus wanting to challenge Reinhard in Oboreru is that he can't get more skilled unless he fights someone who can push him to his limits (he has the whole "we're all drowning" speech, he's desperate to get better because he's stagnating)

 

[Zabazab]

I only disagree with one thing: Cecilus having improved swordsmanship in Oboreru

He didn't want to fight Reinhard because he couldn't improve, he wanted to fight him in order to reach the Heavenly Sword (which he didn't end up doing, he just got his ass beat so he ran away). He is "one step away" from the Heavenly Sword in Oboreru, which he most certainly is not in the main story (described as anywhere between "infinitely far" and "having a long way to go"). It's also been 3 years of him preparing to fight Reinhard, training will improve your abilities even if it can't allow you to "break your shell". Eg. Garfiel obviously improved by training, but his shell was broken when he defeated Kurgan.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

He didn't want to fight Reinhard because he couldn't improve, he wanted to fight him in order to reach the Heavenly Sword (which he didn't end up doing, he just got his ass beat so he ran away).

Yes he wanted to fight Reinhard to reach the Heavenly Sword, which is the pinnacle of sword technique, but the fact is that he himself believes he cannot reach that level without having a fight with his life on the line, ergo even if he trains a lot, it will never be enough to get there, meaning that what he receives from his training is minimal at most

Spoiler: Oboreru if

Cecilus: “For those who arrive at a certain realm, the way in front’s gonna be blocked by a wall. That wall, which can’t be surpassed no matter what, some’ll never overcome it and give up. Something like that, it’s impossible for me. For if I don’t cross that wall, I won’t be able to be me.”

Reinhard: “――――”

Cecilus: “That’s when the boss’s offer arrived. He offered me a way to get past the wall… Well, it ended up being a way to cross swords with you with lives on the line, setting up a serious fight for one’s life―― Well, just as he said it, it was to clutch at straws, that sorta thing.”

Reinhard: “Straws…?”

Cecilus: “Those who are about to drown do, or so I’ve heard.”

That was the solution that had brought Cecilus Segmunt to this place.

Or perhaps, with his desire as a swordsman being guessed correctly, this had been made inevitable?

At that wide-eyed Sword Saint, Cecilus curved his lips.

And, laughed. The Blue Lightning, who with a laughing face would cut down others, spoke,

Cecilus: “I’m drowning, Mister Reinhard van Astrea. Saying it like my employer would; apparently, we, those who deeply desire something, everyone of us, everyone’s drowning. We’re all drowning in an ocyan [11], or whatever it’s called, which we haven’t even seen before.”

He is "one step away" from the Heavenly Sword in Oboreru, which he most certainly is not in the main story (described as anywhere between "infinitely far" and "having a long way to go"). It's also been 3 years of him preparing to fight Reinhard,

Understandable have a great day (honestly, Rowan's statements are... not reliable and the "infinitely far" one is from kid Cecilus if I'm not mistaken)

Also, the 3 years thing isn't really correct, since Cecilus joined Subaru after Halibel (Halibel joined after the Zarestia incident, which if I'm not mistaken takes place 1 year after arc 3), so main story Cecilus also has "1 year of training" (I guess it also depends on the exact time Chisha infantilized Cecilus, but yeah let's not go there lol), while I guess Oboreru Cecilus has 2 more years of training (which would be his "prep time")

training will improve your abilities even if it can't allow you to "break your shell". Eg. Garfiel obviously improved by training, but his shell was broken when he defeated Kurgan.

I see your point, but even if Oboreru Cecilus is more skilled, I don't think it's by a big margin (I will say say though that Oboreru Cecilus seems to have more "sword aura" or whatever that is, as he's been anticipating his duel with Reinhard for a while and is desperate to achieve it)


But well, if nobody else wants to jump on this rabbit hole with me, not much I can do here lol, accept everything!

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Actually there is one more example we can turn towards, Euclid Vollachia grew massively stronger when he was up against Halibel while normally he wouldn't have been that strong

This same applies to Wilhelm where under high stakes he enters a higher realm which he normally cannot achieve by training

So there is merit to considering that actual fighting exp>>>training in the verse
We know current Cecilus has more fighting experience than obereru Cecilus because of the great disaster not happening in that canon (we know this because the great disaster was originally not going to happen as the main cast was not to leave Lugunica)

So imo they are ATLEAST relative

 

[FinePoint]

It all seems generally fine, especially since so much of it is already accepted by prior CRTs.

No comment personally on Cecilus's sword skills, and I I don't think it's ultimately that important whether it's considered "improved" or not.

 

[Trxyway]

Also, the 3 years thing isn't really correct

What about this

 

[Zabazab]

We know current Cecilus has more fighting experience than obereru Cecilus because of the great disaster not happening in that canon (we know this because the great disaster was originally not going to happen as the main cast was not to leave Lugunica)

Azamuku IF confirms that the Great Disaster still occurs without intervention from the main cast, it's just that more named characters die if Vollachia is left to its own devices.

 

[Gigi_4_life]

What about this

3 years after arc 2, in the main story we're already past 1 year

 

[Zabazab]

I'll apply this today if there's no further discussion.

 

[Zabazab]

CRT applied.