Re Zero Top Tiers CRT

[Zabazab]

Basically the main point of this CRT is to suggest a solidification of the tier/ap of the 5 definite top tiers of the verse, since some folks thought it'd be better (I ain't touching Cecilus). Reinhard additionally has a small ability change to go over.

Volcanica

Volcanica should be changed from "7-B, possibly High 6-C" to simply "High 6-C".

If he draws his own sword, Reinhard can fight against Volcanica(The Dragon).

Reinhard is often described as Godzilla while Volcanica is referred to as King Ghidora in comparison. This implies that Reinhard and Volcanica are on the same level, with Reinhard being stronger.

Around how strong is Reinhard? Please answer in terms of how many Subarus he's worth!!

It's kind of dull to compare Godzilla's strength to how many Kakashis it would be, but hang in there and try comparing them. - Reinhard's Birthday Q&A 2018

It appears that the Dragon is super-amazing, but around how many Reinhards worth of fighting strength does it have?

About as much as King Ghidorah. - Q&A 2 Fighting Strength Comparison

We know that without the Dragonsword, Reid is a very difficult opponent for Reinhard, and legends say that Reid wielded the Dragonsword to defeat Volcanica.

Even without the Dragon Sword Reid, can Reinhard defeat Satella and Reid?

Due to a problem of compatibility, his fight with Satella wouldn't end. Taking on Reid would be difficult, indeed. Since there's a high chance that the Dragon Sword Reid can't be drawn against Reid. - Reinhard's Birthday Q&A 2019

A treasured sword of a tenebrous past, and furthermore, the deviousness of being incapable of being unsheathed by anyone but the Sword Saint. To be precise, even by the Sword Saint, it could be unsheathed only in times necessary.

The treasured sword that had defeated the Divine Dragon, Volcanica, by the hand of the first generation Sword Saint, Reid Astrea.

In the past, when dragons had advanced upon in immense numbers, this legendary sword slashed all of them down altogether. - Arc 5 Chapter 72 "Sword Saint vs Previous Generation Sword Saint"

Lastly of course, the claw markings on the Dragonsword's sheath are said to have been made by the Divine Dragon.


Reinhard van Astrea

Reinhard should be changed from "7-B, High 6-C with Reid" to "6-C, High 6-C with Reid".

In Meili's Witchbeast Observations III, Reinhard- with the Dragonsword sheathed- slashes through the Divine Dragon Volcanica's holy breath. His presence alone from tens of kilometres away was considered startling to the Dragon.

“Reinhard!” she cried out to the Sword Saint, whose name resounded, who was the reason they hadn’t turned to dust.

“───”

The red-headed knight, descending from the dragon carriage that traversed the sandy terrain, stood at the brunt of the swirling light. Raising his sheathed sword, housed in a white scabbard engraved with the claws of a Dragon, he gazed intently over the expanse of the sand sea. A moment later, another burst of light surged forward as the swinging sword met it head-on, cleaving through its attack.

The severed light emitted a splashing sound as it dispersed, demonstrating its destructive force in the distance, missing its original target and creating yet another massive crater in the great sandy plains of the Augria Sand Dunes. - Meili Witchbeast Observations III Section 1

“He’s most likely just been startled by my presence,” Reinhard explained as he fended off the overwhelming onslaught that greeted them.

“Huh?” Meili exclaimed, eyes widening in disbelief, when she realized that he was replying to her scream. She couldn’t believe her ears that Reinhard had the leisure of having a conversation in a situation like this as he leaned forward.

“Ezzo, I’ll leave you in charge here. I’ll handle the Divine Dragon!” With these words, the red-headed knight swiftly departed to a great distance, the sound of his footsteps like the firing of magic stone cannons. Beneath his feet, a massive crater formed in the sand, an impossible feat for anyone with mere human leg power. Reinhard’s prediction appeared to have proven true as he was propelled into the air.

The emerging light from the distance changed course, moving away from the dragon carriage carrying Meili and the others, and began to chip away at the sand sea in pursuit of the airborne Reinhard.

“The light appears to be targeting the young master,” Flam observed.

“Caught in the middle,” Grassis added. - Meili Witchbeast Observations III Section 3

This Volcanica is weaker than it's Prime due to undergoing Emptiness of the Spirit, which leaves it at around 10% of it's former strength according to Beatrice and Echidna.

Echidna: “Ah, yes. I was not sure at first, but I feel it now. This is not the wearing down of the mind, but the emptiness of the spirit.”

Emilia: “Emptiness, of the spirit…?”

Emilia was puzzled by the conversation going on between the Artificial Spirits Echidna and Beatrice, who could understand one another.

With puzzled expressions on the faces of Julius and Anastasia both, Beatrice held out her finger and said, “It’s simple, in fact”,

Beatrice: “Its spirit is empty… That’s to say, there’s nothing inside, I suppose. As a result, they’re limited in what they can say and respond with, in fact. Just think of it as them being ninety-percent asleep, I suppose.”

Emilia: “Ninety-percent… But it was reaaally strong, though?”

Echidna: “If its spirit were present, it would have been incomparable.”

Echidna’s tone implied that she had been lucky to survive, making Emilia shudder in response. - Arc 6 Chapter 90 "Hero"

Reinhard's base would scale to 1/10th of Prime Volcanica's strength which would be around 1/10th of his own AP with Reid, placing base Reinhard at 6-C (10.18 Gigatons).

Additionally, Reinhard's potential Animal Manipulation should be removed from his profile as in the same sidestory it is stated only one user of the Divine Protection of Witchbeast Manipulation can exist at one time, meaning he cannot gain Meili's Blessing.

“By the way, about the Divine Protection of Witchbeast Manipulation. Sir Reinhard, do you not have the same Divine Protection?” Ezzo asked curiously.

“Unfortunately,” he replied, “only one of her Divine Protection can exist at a time.” - Meili Witchbeast Observations III Section 2

Satella

Satella should be changed from "7-B, possibly High 6-C" to "High 6-C".

The difference in strength between Reinhard and Satella is stated to be the same as the difference between Disgaea and Final Fantasy.

In a fight between Satella and Reinhard, of course Reinhard would win right? Also, what’s the difference in strength between the two?

Due to a matter of affinity it would be an endless battle. The difference is between Disgaea and Final Fantasy. (note: Reinhard = Disgaea) - Q&A 4 Miscellaneous

It took the power of Reid, Volcanica, and the Sage to finally defeat Satella and seal her away, and Satella is able to eventually overwhelm Reid Astrea, who according to legend defeated Volcanica.

Echidna: “Right right. Now, on with parallel universes. If that last example didn’t stick… Let’s see. What do you think would have happened if Flugel never sealed the pact with Volcanica?”

Holding a finger to her lips, Echidna mischievously smiled as she raised this question to Minerva who, in turn, swallowed her breath and narrowed her blue eyes.

Minerva: “If Volcanica and Flugel never sealed their pact, Reid couldn’t have stopped her by himself… and the world would’ve been swallowed."

Echidna: “If it had been swallowed, what then, I wonder. Of all the world, only the Witch of Envy would remain. Perhaps, a parallel universe in which this is the case even exists. And, if it does, won’t you find it incredibly interesting?” - Arc 4 Intermission I - "Tea Party"

If he draws his own sword, Reinhard makes stalemate on Satella.


Sekhmet

Sekhmet should be changed from "7-B, possibly High 6-C" to "High 6-C".

Sekhmet is able to fight Volcanica and pummel it badly enough that it becomes wary of her, although their fight ended in her death as she fell down the Great Waterfall.

Subaru: “As a fighting force to oppose the Witch of Envy, if ever she is resurrected…?”

Echidna: “However, I was not the Witch that Volcanica had originally expected to leave behind. If anyone should have remained, it should have been Sekhmet. The problem was that Volcanica himself disputed with Sekhmet. And, it seems, after she beat him to a pulp, he grew rather wary of her.”

As if casually gossiping, Echidna lightheartedly glossed over the intertwining fates between the Dragon and the Witch, but Subaru, who had been listening, did not laugh.

He didn’t really think that the grudge between a Dragon and a Witch could be summed up so simply like interpersonal relationships. And besides, he wasn’t entirely sure to what extent he should be believing a story about the Witch of Sloth beating the Dragon to a pulp in the first place. Without knowing what to say, Subaru stayed silent. - Arc 4 Chapter 12 "A Souvenir from the Tea Party"

Sekhmet is able to buy time against Reinhard, though she cannot defeat him.

Out of the archbishops and witches, are there any of them that could, with full preparation and fighting him on their favored terrain, have a chance to win, or a chance to fight to a draw, or at least take long enough losing to buy some time?

If it’s the witches, Sekhmet might be able to buy some time. If it’s the archbishops, it’s spoilers so I can’t say.(note: spoiler was Regulus) (October 09, 2014 Arc 5)

Sekhmet can kill every other Witch of Sin aside from Satella at the same time in a single second.

When ranking the strength of the Witches, the gap in power between Satella (1st) and Sekhmet (2nd) is smaller than the gap in power between Sekhmet (2nd) and the next strongest Witches, Typhon (3rd) and Daphne (4th).

Satella >> Sekhmet >>> Typhon > Daphne >> Echidna > Carmilla >>>>> Minerva

Reid Astrea

Reid should be changed from "7-B, likely High 6-C with Reid" to "6-C, High 6-C with Reid".

As stated previously Reid can go toe-to-toe with Reinhard, and legends say he defeated Volcanica with the Dragonsword.

Even without the Dragon Sword Reid, can Reinhard defeat Satella and Reid?

Due to a problem of compatibility, his fight with Satella wouldn't end. Taking on Reid would be difficult, indeed. Since there's a high chance that the Dragon Sword Reid can't be drawn against Reid. - Reinhard's Birthday Q&A 2019

A treasured sword of a tenebrous past, and furthermore, the deviousness of being incapable of being unsheathed by anyone but the Sword Saint. To be precise, even by the Sword Saint, it could be unsheathed only in times necessary.

The treasured sword that had defeated the Divine Dragon, Volcanica, by the hand of the first generation Sword Saint, Reid Astrea.

In the past, when dragons had advanced upon in immense numbers, this legendary sword slashed all of them down altogether. - Arc 5 Chapter 72 "Sword Saint vs Previous Generation Sword Saint"

He was a main driving force in Satella's defeat, and although it was not a 1v1 he did defeat her.

The Sword Saints are supposedly the strongest, so why were they unable to defeat the Witch of Envy, Satella?

The Sword Saints aren’t the strongest, Reinhard is the strongest. Also, though it wasn’t a one-on-one fight, the Witch was defeated by the first Sword Saint. - Q&A 14 Wilhelm & Theresia

For Reinhard and Reid, I'm not sure whether their durability should be "Likely High 6-C with Reid" or flat-out "High 6-C with Reid", as I don't believe there is evidence that the sword boosts defense as well as offense.

That's about it I think.

Agree:

Agree with all except Sekhmet: @VortechsTG , @FantaRin_The_First , @Phoenks , @Celestial_Pegasus , @SatellaTheWoE , @DarkDragonMedeus

Disagree:

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Following

 

[VortechsTG]

Disagree with Sekhmet because she is repeatedly stated to be significantly weaker than the others and is just stated to be a bad matchup for Volchanica, most likely through hax. She should keep her possibly rating.

Otherwise, looks good.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yep. On the same side as Vortechs. Sekhmet should keep her Possibly Rating. Everything else is fine.

Side note, I wonder what 6-C matches can be done with Reinhard without 'em being stomps for the haxy bastard.

 

[Phoenks]

Agree with everything else but it should only be a possibly for sekhmet for Vortechs reasoning.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This is good, as for Reinhard and Reid's durability with Reid, nothing really proves it should scale, so for now probably should just be blank, especially as their ap isn't so massively above it anymore, it's feasible that with their level of skill, plus whatever else hax Reid might have they could take on people like Volcanica.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Agree with everything aside from sleepy giant

 

[Phoenks]

@Elizhaa @Therefir

Thoughts on these changes?

 

[Zabazab]

48 hours have passed, just gotta wait for further staff approval.

 

[Zabazab]

I feel a bit bad for Sekhmet, she's in the awkward state of stomping anyone below her and having no chance against anyone above her as the last possibly H6-C.

 

[VortechsTG]

I feel a bit bad for Sekhmet, she's in the awkward state of stomping anyone below her and having no chance against anyone above her as the last possibly H6-C.

Well, that's kinda how she is in the series.

 

[Zabazab]

Poor magenta lady...

 

[Zabazab]

Bump

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Let me call some staff @DarkDragonMedeus @KingTempest @Elizhaa

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with one pretty much everyone else said. No to Sekhmet but yes to everything else.

 

[Zabazab]

Thank you, will start work on applying this soon.

 

[Zabazab]

Changes have been applied, this can be closed now.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

We forgot about Felt's meteor.

 

[Zabazab]

Shoot. Should it get High 6-C for making Volcanica halfway-cry then?

Otto: “I had heard of its convolution in usage, but what can we expect in terms of its strength?”

Beatrice: “It’s a staff which boasts an anecdote of having made the Dragon halfway cry, in fact. It’s guaranteed, I suppose.”

Her claim was still difficult to believe. However, she had conveyed the authenticity of the weapon. - Arc 5 Chapter 69

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The LN also says it can even hurt Reinhard

Before she could finish, Otto interrupted her. For a second, she looked suspicious, but an instant later, she noticed the hideous roar emanating from below the plaza. But even before she heard it, the repulsive cries had reached Otto’s ears.

“—It seems like you’re someone who can entertain us a bit more than expected, but just a bunch of water lizards is not very satisfactory. A gourmet like us has standards when it comes to appetizers.”

And breaking through the cries was a voice that scorned everything in the world.

There was a change in the ball of water dragons swarming around their prey. The ferocious scene of predator and prey had flipped at some point—

“…Lady Felt, how reliable is that metia you mentioned?”

“From what Old Man Rom and Ezzo said, even Reinhard wouldn’t be unscathed if he took a hit from it.”

“Ha-ha, that’s a nice and easy-to-grasp metric. Understood.”-Volume 20, Chapter 1

 

[Zabazab]

Considering that 80% of magic (I'm assuming the Meteor is considered magic) get nulled by Blessings, that really says something.

High 6-C sounds good to me.

 

[VortechsTG]

No, sorry. I cannot get behind an attack that Ley could tank in base form actually being able to damage Reinhard or Volchanica. That bumps literally every 7-B character up to 6-C.

Either they aren't able to utilize the staff to its full potential like Echidna could or it just isn't as powerful as they hyped it up to be.

 

[Zabazab]

But Ley didn't tank it, he chopped his hair off to trick the Meteor into thinking it hit him, and the barely escaped (probably via Leaping)

And, saying with feminine words, contradicting his appearance, the man relaxedly sliced away his long hair with his sword. As the chopped off strands of hair fell to the ground, Beatrice understood how the light bullet had been evaded.
The Meteor’s tracking functioned until it had established that it had connected with its target.

That was its power. Even if it came in contact with a single portion of the body, its might would be sufficient to amass the whole body. That point had been used in inverse.

The man―― perhaps Batenkaitos, had chopped off his hair, and made it seem to the light bullet that it had “connected with the body”. And, fleeing from the attack’s span with all of his strength, he had managed to evade the detriment. - Arc 5 Chapter 70 "Eclipsing"

 

[VortechsTG]

But Ley didn't tank it, he chopped his hair off to trick the Meteor into thinking it hit him, and the barely escaped (probably via Leaping)

In the ln he tanked it. It knocked him out but it hit him and he survived.

 

[VortechsTG]

Beatrice and Felt’s one attack with the metia had landed a direct hit on Batenkaitos and mowed down everything else that was in its path.
Hot steam was rising off the pavement wherever the white light had passed, and buildings in the path of the beam had a perfectly symmetrical hole blown through them in the shape of the beam. Naturally, Batenkaitos, who had taken the blast head-on, did not escape unscathed.
—Batenkaitos was sprawled on the ground a few yards from where he had been standing, coils of steam rising off him. He was unconscious with hideous burns all over, not making a sound. It was a blazing attack that burned through the entire body, and it was a coin flip whether he was still alive. - Volume 20

 

[Zabazab]

What kind of sorcery did he eat that let Rui heal him...

I'm not sure if Ley would even scale given the Meteor left him near dead (also this is not nearly as cool as Ley dodging using his hair).

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Am pretty sure that just falls under the category of "surviving attacks", which is stated thus in the durability page

Surviving Attacks​

Many characters have been shown to survive attacks far above their durability, usually surviving with large injuries that others on their scale usually wouldn't survive. This is because of endurance, as they can endure a certain amount of pain regardless if the attack has burned them or sliced off limbs. This is not a durability factor, as this is a quality that is commonly attributed to willpower.

 

[VortechsTG]

Am pretty sure that just falls under the category of "surviving attacks", which is stated thus in the durability page

He's not just surviving an attack he's surviving a hit that should be tens of thousands of times what he should be able to. Forget about fiction sometimes having weird rules like that. By the own verses rules far weaker attacks should instantly kill far stronger opponents. It just seems far more likely to me that they couldn't use the staff to its full potential or it wasn't that powerful.

“From what Betty heard, the dragon was on the verge of tears.”
Though, the one who told Beatrice that was the first-generation Roswaal. Back then, he teased Beatrice in all sorts of ways, so it was possible that report was just another of his pranks.

Even the text itself questions the validity of those claims lol

 

[VortechsTG]

(also this is not nearly as cool as Ley dodging using his hair).

I'm gonna have to hard agree there lol. It was one of those unfortunate changes.

 

[Zabazab]

Beatrice does crack two mana crystals to fuel the Meteor, so maybe she just couldn't juice it up enough to get it on the level that Echidna could with her huge mana pool.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Beatrice does crack two mana crystals to fuel the Meteor, so maybe she just couldn't juice it up enough to get it on the level that Echidna could with her huge mana pool.

Ptobably the case

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed

 

[Zabazab]

WN Felt (High 6-C) >>>>>> LN Felt (vaporized a street + some buildings)

 

[VortechsTG]

WN Felt (High 6-C) >>>>>> LN Felt (vaporized a street + some buildings)

I kinda disagree with putting it on Felt’s profile anyway tbh since she needed Beatrice and magic crystals to use it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea, it should be its own page, Felt can't use it on her own.

 

[Zabazab]

Right then that seems simple, do we need any permission beyond yours to just remove the Meteor AP from her profile?

If not then I'll do that & then this CRT (and a previous CRT) can be closed.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Think it's fine to remove it from Felt.

 

[Zabazab]

She will be struck back down to tier 9 then.

 

[Zabazab]

Changes applied now, this can be closed.