Red (Pokemon Origins) vs Rayquaza.

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah, I've gotta say, I've never heard of this.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

From Versus Thread Rules:

"Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.

• As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added."

Since the Speed Reduction for the faster character would be equivalent for a slower character recieving a Speed Amp that allows them to blitz the faster character, the match would be invalid to add

However, this won't happen since Speed is Unequal anyways and Rayquaza blitzes the Birds

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Ah. That's fair.

That said, is this match up really fair when Red only has two Pokemon that can really do anything... both of whom are weaker than Ray?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Ah. That's fair.

That said, is this match up really fair when Red only has two Pokemon that can really do anything... both of whom are weaker than Ray?

Charizard and Mewtwo togethet might be a better match, but it isn't a stomp. It's just that Rayquaza is more likely to win here than Red's Pokemon

This is just decisive, not a stomp

 

[Rez]

Ah. That's fair.

That said, is this match up really fair when Red only has two Pokemon that can really do anything... both of whom are weaker than Ray?

Red doesn't have only two Pokemon though he also has 3 birds and a gengar and zapdos is the most important Pokemon here since this match is not speed equalised paralysis will still be allowed if red is bloodlusted he can send all of the Pokemon's at once and use Charizard and Mewtwo to distract and slow rayquaza and then use zapdos to paralyze it once that's done red should be able to win

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Red doesn't have only two Pokemon though he also has 3 birds and a gengar and zapdos is the most important Pokemon here since this match is not speed equalised paralysis will still be allowed if red is bloodlusted he can send all of the Pokemon's at once and use Charizard and Mewtwo to distract and slow rayquaza and then use zapdos to paralyze it once that's done red should be able to win

The rests are blitzed horribly and AP stomped as well. Only Mewtwo and Charizard matter here

 

[Rez]

And again the rayquaza stomped deoxys in it's high 3-a key not in his 5-b key he fought deoxys equally in the 5-b key this is written on the wiki

 

[Rez]

The rests are blitzed horribly and AP stomped as well. Only Mewtwo and Charizard matter here

Again Mewtwo and Charizard can slow rayquaza so zapdos can paralyze

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

And again the rayquaza stomped deoxys in it's high 3-a key not in his 5-b key he fought deoxys equally in the 5-b key this is written on the wiki

It wasn't really an equal fight. Rayquaza canonically won. Not all profiles are 100% true

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Again Mewtwo and Charizard can slow rayquaza so zapdos can paralyze

Zapdos don't start with paralysis though. And again, the Birds get blitzed.

Charizard and Mewtwo have no moves to slow Rayquaza down either from what we see in Origins

 

[Rez]

Zapdos don't start with paralysis though. And again, the Birds get blitzed.

Charizard and Mewtwo have no moves to slow Rayquaza down either from what we see in Origins

Doesn't matter what zapdos starts with red is the one ordering Mewtwo can use telekinesis for that and Charizard has a good amount of normal type moves which will help and win≠stomp

 

[Rez]

I just saw their fight from the movie and deoxys was most definitely not stomped so the wiki is right here

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I just saw their fight from the movie and deoxys was most definitely not stomped so the wiki is right here

It was still not an equal fight at all. Rayquaza literally shrugged off Deoxys' attack easily and one shotted him with a Hyper Beam

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Doesn't matter what zapdos starts with red is the one ordering Mewtwo can use telekinesis for that and Charizard has a good amount of normal type moves which will help and win≠stomp

Not in character for Red. Red usually doesn't opt to things like that right away, not that it matters since Rayquaza one shots before Zapdos can do anything

 

[Rez]

Not in character for Red. Red usually doesn't opt to things like that right away, not that it matters since Rayquaza one shots before Zapdos can do anything

Rayquaza can't one shot Mewtwo and Charizard and about the deoxys fight rayquaza did not shrug off any hit he was down for like 15 seconds after taking an hit from deoxys at this moment deoxys had some vision which made it so he didn't attack which gave rayquaza time to recover and at this exact moment deoxys also tanked an hyper beam and deoxys was straight up winning in their second fight

 

[Rez]

And if red is bloodlusted he will play like that he isn't an idiot

 

[Rez]

The only reason that hyper beam one shorted deoxys was because he was distracted

 

[Rez]

And it technically isn't a one shot since rayquaza has landed quite a few hits on deoxys in this fight which he shrugged off

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

And if red is bloodlusted he will play like that he isn't an idiot

Red isn't bloodlusted and only has the knowledge of Rayquaza's types

 

[Rez]

The entire argument present here relies on the fact that rayquaza stomped deoxys which as I have stated is false I am voting red for the reasons i gave

 

[Rez]

Bump

 

[Dragopentling]

So what's the general verdict here?

 

[Rez]

Idk but i am voting Red for reasons I have above

 

[Regice]

I vote red because 2 planet level characters vs 1 planet level character

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I vote red because 2 planet level characters vs 1 planet level character

That one Planet level character scales much higher than the other two though...
You realize that just becasue they share a tier doesn't mean they're equal right?

 

[Regice]

That one Planet level character scales much higher than the other two though...
You realize that just becasue they share a tier doesn't mean they're equal right

Rayquaza is not much higher than charizard x though since charizard also beat mewtwo so the scaling is rayquaza > mega charizard x >mewtwo, so charizard could be a distraction while mewtwo and the legendary birds support, also mewtwo can use hypnosis while Ray is distracted, wich would be an automatic win

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Rayquaza is not much higher than charizard x though since charizard also beat mewtwo so the scaling is rayquaza > mega charizard x >mewtwo, so charizard could be a distraction while mewtwo and the legendary birds support, also mewtwo can use hypnosis while Ray is distracted, wich would be an automatic win

Rayquaza one shotted Deoxys easily. The same Dexoys was overpowering Base Mewtwo the same way Charizard beated him.

Hypnosis isn't really in character for that Mewtwo to use, and it can easily dodge by being much faster than Mega Charizard X and Mewtwo

 

[Regice]

Rayquaza one shotted Deoxys easily. The same Dexoys was overpowering Base Mewtwo the same way Charizard beated him.

Hypnosis isn't really in character for that Mewtwo to use, and it can easily dodge by being much faster than Mega Charizard X and Mewtwo

That's why I still put rayquaza above charizard, and what about the legendary birds who could paralyze/freeze rayquaza wich would give mewtwo the chance to hypnosis him

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's why I still put rayquaza above charizard, and what about the legendary birds who could paralyze/freeze rayquaza wich would give mewtwo the chance to hypnosis him

Rayquaza blitzes and one shots each and every one of the birds before they can even react since speed is not equal in this match

 

[Regice]

Rayquaza blitzes and one shots each and every one of the birds before they can even react since speed is not equal in this match

Not if he's distracted by charizard x

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Not if he's distracted by charizard x

Rayquaza is also much faster than Charizard X. What stops him from simply dodging his attacks and going for the weak birds?

 

[Regice]

Rayquaza is also much faster than Charizard X. What stops him from simply dodging his attacks and going for the weak birds?

Mega charizard and rayquaza are both mftl+

 

[Regice]

Mega charizard and rayquaza are both mftl+

And extremespeed would only hit one target, red would likely tell zapdos to use thunder waver since he is a smart trainer who beat the champion

 

[Chaos Jester25]

Mega charizard and rayquaza are both mftl+

There are different degrees of mftl+. Rayquaza is in a higher degree of mtfl+ than Mega Charizard X is.

 

[Regice]

There are different degrees of mftl+. Rayquaza is in a higher degree of mtfl+ than mega charizard X is.

Still wouldn't be enough of a difference for him to just ignore charizard

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Still wouldn't be enough of a difference for him to just ignore charizard

Yes it does, because Rayquaza can blitz Deoxys and one shot it, who is around Charizard's level

 

[Rez]

Rayquaza one shotted Deoxys easily. The same Dexoys was overpowering Base Mewtwo the same way Charizard beated him.

In the movie? no
If it was in the manga Idk

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

In the movie? no
If it was in the manga Idk

In Movie 7 Rayquaza one shotted Deoxys. So badly in fact that it needed like 4 years to regenerate

The Mewtwo feat happens in a manga. Pretty sure it's on the profile

 

[Rez]

In Movie 7 Rayquaza one shotted Deoxys. So badly in fact that it needed like 4 years to regenerate

False
At 0:55 deoxys tanks an ice beam from rayquaza
At 1:10 an hyper beam
Deoxys attack makes rayquaza fall at 1:12
Briefly overpowers rayquaza at 2:00 and while it's down for a decent while doesn't attack and rayquaza stays down for 30+ Seconds
At 2:26 tanks an hyper beam by going in defence form
Throws rayquaza into the ground at 2:54
Hits rayquaza at 3:24 making it fall in the ocean
This particular clip doesn't have that scene but when rayquaza lands that point blank hyper beam deoxys was distracted by human's and was not able to react in time

 

[Regice]

False
At 0:55 deoxys tanks an ice beam from rayquaza
At 1:10 an hyper beam
Deoxys attack makes rayquaza fall at 1:12
Briefly overpowers rayquaza at 2:00 and while it's down for a decent while doesn't attack and rayquaza stays down for 30+ Seconds
At 2:26 tanks an hyper beam by going in defence form
Throws rayquaza into the ground at 2:54
Hits rayquaza at 3:24 making it fall in the ocean
This particular clip doesn't have that scene but when rayquaza lands that point blank hyper beam deoxys was distracted by human's and was not able to react in time

I vote red since charizard should scale to deoxys and mewtwo can support with the birds