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thats actually what i thought. even if he cant reset it to 0 he can still, reset the active effect it has on someone other than the user/caster of it
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Ren Amamiya/Joker VS Giorno Giovana
- Thread starter 0ホルスファルコン将軍0
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Pretty sure Persona hits 1-C.
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Persona and SMT are the exact same verse though.
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Yes, and no. Same company production, and a spin-off, but Persona does not scale.
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There currently isn't any scaling between Persona and SMT, as far as I'm aware. So despite being set in the same universe, SMT caps out way beyond Persona (Persona caps out at around 2-C, mayyyybe 2-B if you stretch it, while SMT caps out at around 1-C)
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Dont some of the same characters and gods cameo though?
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arent the Persona summons just the SMT demons? Although we getting off topic tm.
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They are, but they do not scale. Their Shadows and Persona's just take the forms of Gods and Demons spawning from Archtypes, which are powerful, but different.
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We only have one Igor statement which sounds remotely scale-able, but it's too vague.
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I was just under the impression they took place in the same multiverse and I knew some demons and gods appeard in both as the same character, so I just assumed.
I've heard that devil survivor has some cross connection tho, maybe that's worth checking?
I've heard that devil survivor has some cross connection tho, maybe that's worth checking?
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I'll try, but to be honest it will be far harder to scale, and it's far better they are seperate.
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Lmfao Joker absolute stomps. Giorno has no way of harming his personas due to his insane defense like surviving the big bang attack. Return to Zero would be a problem, but that wouldn't matter since muda muda barrage isn't gonna do shit to Ren due to his passive skills like null, repel, or drain physical. Satanael resists all of Giorno's attacks. Plus Ger has a time limit according to the games. So right after he's done doing that, it reverts back to golden experience. Before you say "Oh its non canon". It doesn't matter since it's still suspicous and Bandai Namco has the rights for SJ to make games. So its official. Honestly this match up is stupid. It's like saying a monkey with causality manipulation can beat the reaper because of RTZ.
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>GER has a time limit
Lmao what. Thats only in the game, they give GER a time limit because Giorno would be pretty OP in Eyes of Heaven otherwise
Lmao what. Thats only in the game, they give GER a time limit because Giorno would be pretty OP in Eyes of Heaven otherwise
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>it has a time limit in the games.
>in the same game it's shown that it doesnt have a time limit in the cinematics.
ƒñö
>It's like saying a monkey with causality manipulation can beat the reaper because of RTZ.
I mean, if the reaper dont resist causality manip, yeah, reaper kinda cant do anything.
>in the same game it's shown that it doesnt have a time limit in the cinematics.
ƒñö
>It's like saying a monkey with causality manipulation can beat the reaper because of RTZ.
I mean, if the reaper dont resist causality manip, yeah, reaper kinda cant do anything.
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I also wanna point you're using gameplay mechanics, not even the game itself as your point. In the same vain Speedwagon can take like 1k full power Star Platinum punches before being knocked out. Or how Jotaro has like a 2 minute cooldown on time stop in gameplay even though we know that's not the case in canon or even the game's cutscenes.
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>calling others fanboys despite being blatantly ignorant on the subject at hand.
Nice rebuttal, now if you'd take you'd kindly stop acting like hot shit, you do realize that in the very game you're quoting as a source Giorno is still shown to have GER long after his fight with Diavolo, even using it against Dio and Funny himself planning Dio's defeat around the Stand initially, clearly not on a timer if Giorno can just summon it like, a day after he gets it. Not to mention if you're willing to accept non-canon material and games as a source, ASB's PHF DLC shows that Giorno kept GER 6 months after the defeat of Diavolo. So if you're fine with using games as canon, well, lucky you, GER is a permanent addition, hell not only is it permanent but Giorno can swap between base and GER at will much like Echoes and Tusk with its Acts. But let me guess, those don't count? Even though some of that comes from Bandai Namco and the very game you're trying to cite. Hell if you're fine with non-canon feats then GER probably does have ways to straight up kill Joker.
Nobody said Canon GER could kill him with physical punches or anything like what you're implying, just that Joker can't kill him either. Which is true, Joker can't win because he can't do anything even if he could in theory kill Giorno easily, he'd never get the chance. Ergo he can't win because he can't do anything.
But if we wanna use gameplay mechanics then I'm sure I can find a bunch of random Joker weaknesses from the plethora of random crossover games he's been in or even his own game, which are obviously officially licensed. Or do those not count and we have a case of double standards here? Your call.
Nice rebuttal, now if you'd take you'd kindly stop acting like hot shit, you do realize that in the very game you're quoting as a source Giorno is still shown to have GER long after his fight with Diavolo, even using it against Dio and Funny himself planning Dio's defeat around the Stand initially, clearly not on a timer if Giorno can just summon it like, a day after he gets it. Not to mention if you're willing to accept non-canon material and games as a source, ASB's PHF DLC shows that Giorno kept GER 6 months after the defeat of Diavolo. So if you're fine with using games as canon, well, lucky you, GER is a permanent addition, hell not only is it permanent but Giorno can swap between base and GER at will much like Echoes and Tusk with its Acts. But let me guess, those don't count? Even though some of that comes from Bandai Namco and the very game you're trying to cite. Hell if you're fine with non-canon feats then GER probably does have ways to straight up kill Joker.
Nobody said Canon GER could kill him with physical punches or anything like what you're implying, just that Joker can't kill him either. Which is true, Joker can't win because he can't do anything even if he could in theory kill Giorno easily, he'd never get the chance. Ergo he can't win because he can't do anything.
But if we wanna use gameplay mechanics then I'm sure I can find a bunch of random Joker weaknesses from the plethora of random crossover games he's been in or even his own game, which are obviously officially licensed. Or do those not count and we have a case of double standards here? Your call.
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>Nobody said Canon GER could kill him with physical punches or anything like what you're implying, just that Joker can't kill him either.
U dumb, muda muda barrage is his ultimate attack. If its not, then what's his astral finish?
>Joker can't win because he can't do anything even if he could in theory kill Giorno easily, he'd never get the chance.
Same to Giorno. He has nothing to harm Joker thanks to his passive skills like Repel physical and drain physical.
Giorno is like building level which nothing compard to Joker who is universal. He's not beating phantom thieves, yu narukami, makoto yuki, the reaper, kamoshida, or even anyone in smt.
Ren can just finish him off with eigaon
U dumb, muda muda barrage is his ultimate attack. If its not, then what's his astral finish?
>Joker can't win because he can't do anything even if he could in theory kill Giorno easily, he'd never get the chance.
Same to Giorno. He has nothing to harm Joker thanks to his passive skills like Repel physical and drain physical.
Giorno is like building level which nothing compard to Joker who is universal. He's not beating phantom thieves, yu narukami, makoto yuki, the reaper, kamoshida, or even anyone in smt.
Ren can just finish him off with eigaon
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>U dumb, muda muda barrage is his ultimate attack. If its not, then what's his astral finish?
You shouldn't resort to insults so quick, you come off as hypocritical. Ignoring the fact we aint talking about Blazblue. His ultimate attack is RTZ, his ultimate attack isn't even an attack or physical based, it's the manipulation of cause and effect, something Joker has zero resistance toward or counter. You're arguing a point literally nobody made.
>Same to Giorno. He has nothing to harm Joker thanks to his passive skills like Repel physical and drain physical.
Yes, nobody in this thread said Giorno could physically harm Joker. Why are you arguing like anyone actually made that point? You're debating against nobody and a point that simply does not exist.
>Giorno is like building level which nothing compard to Joker who is universal. He's not beating phantom thieves, yu narukami, makoto yuki, the reaper, kamoshida, or even anyone in smt.
Yes, you understand the concept of tiers, congratulations? Nobody, as said above, made any mention of GER beating any SMT character via physical prowess.
>Ren can just finish him off with eigaon
He literally can't though, RTZ dictates any and all actions, techniques, moves and effects and if GER so chooses, even thoughts and memories, never happened. His Eigaon will never hit, or even be used, it would have or will of never happened, even if we ignore that GER may have feats of instantly healing Giorno, even from possible death (at the very least instantly negated a giant chest wound and a split open head long after Giorno himself lost conscious and went limp). Joker can't kill Giorno if GER is out, he simply can't, any all actions he or his Personas take will never happen or didn't happen. Even if Joker can kill Giorno with any attack, that attack will never come to be, he simply can't do it. And none of his Personas or he himself resist the manipulation of cause and effect.
You shouldn't resort to insults so quick, you come off as hypocritical. Ignoring the fact we aint talking about Blazblue. His ultimate attack is RTZ, his ultimate attack isn't even an attack or physical based, it's the manipulation of cause and effect, something Joker has zero resistance toward or counter. You're arguing a point literally nobody made.
>Same to Giorno. He has nothing to harm Joker thanks to his passive skills like Repel physical and drain physical.
Yes, nobody in this thread said Giorno could physically harm Joker. Why are you arguing like anyone actually made that point? You're debating against nobody and a point that simply does not exist.
>Giorno is like building level which nothing compard to Joker who is universal. He's not beating phantom thieves, yu narukami, makoto yuki, the reaper, kamoshida, or even anyone in smt.
Yes, you understand the concept of tiers, congratulations? Nobody, as said above, made any mention of GER beating any SMT character via physical prowess.
>Ren can just finish him off with eigaon
He literally can't though, RTZ dictates any and all actions, techniques, moves and effects and if GER so chooses, even thoughts and memories, never happened. His Eigaon will never hit, or even be used, it would have or will of never happened, even if we ignore that GER may have feats of instantly healing Giorno, even from possible death (at the very least instantly negated a giant chest wound and a split open head long after Giorno himself lost conscious and went limp). Joker can't kill Giorno if GER is out, he simply can't, any all actions he or his Personas take will never happen or didn't happen. Even if Joker can kill Giorno with any attack, that attack will never come to be, he simply can't do it. And none of his Personas or he himself resist the manipulation of cause and effect.
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Well actually, they do resist it. Rather, they're going to.
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They don't right now, and that's what matters. Regardless that has no bearing on my post or the current profiles, nor was that even his argument, just that Giorno is physically weak and thus Joker can beat him, which isn't how it works in the slightest.Milly Rocking Bandit said:
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Yeah, fine by me, although I don't think I have anything to add to round 1 further. Guess I'll just wait.
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i have a question regarding the Almighty attacks. While i do agree that round 2 is inconclusive. i want to ask if GER can use RTZ on almighty attacks. By my understanding. these attacks cant be negated, blocked, or absorbed. Can RTZ still work? im not asking if it will kill giorno as characters can still heal and revive after and almighty skill hits em, but im curious of the limits of RTZ
Round 1 is kinda weird in my opinion, because even if joker can only use arsene. Arsene can be used at any key. hell i've seen people solo yaldy with arsene. and there are 2 versions of arsene. the beginning of game one. and the one you can get via fusion which gives him a more powerful curse attack IIRC. even if we were to go with low level arsene. if we use end game joker key. arsene would still be at joker's level. remember that stats are game mechanic only (or at least thats what i assume) as they are randomly boosted whenever they level up. So technically the weakest persona can still be powerful if the user is powerful; as seen with the velvet twins.
if there is anything i got wrong, feel free to correct me
Round 1 is kinda weird in my opinion, because even if joker can only use arsene. Arsene can be used at any key. hell i've seen people solo yaldy with arsene. and there are 2 versions of arsene. the beginning of game one. and the one you can get via fusion which gives him a more powerful curse attack IIRC. even if we were to go with low level arsene. if we use end game joker key. arsene would still be at joker's level. remember that stats are game mechanic only (or at least thats what i assume) as they are randomly boosted whenever they level up. So technically the weakest persona can still be powerful if the user is powerful; as seen with the velvet twins.
if there is anything i got wrong, feel free to correct me
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RTZ isn't negating, absorbing or blocking the attack. It's just removing the cause and effect so there wasn't an attack in the first place.
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Yes, Return to zero can revert all almighty spells simply because RTZ doesn't have resistence, null, repel or drain skills, it just a causality skill.
Well it depends on which Arsene. If it's early game arsene, then he loses. But if its lv 99 arsene, hell no. Any persona that's lv 99 stomps on anyone in Jojo due to the dependable skills. Arsene is Joker's main persona which isn't weak. I mean if Izanagi and thanatos are broken in the anime, then arsene should. It's just user being op.
Well it depends on which Arsene. If it's early game arsene, then he loses. But if its lv 99 arsene, hell no. Any persona that's lv 99 stomps on anyone in Jojo due to the dependable skills. Arsene is Joker's main persona which isn't weak. I mean if Izanagi and thanatos are broken in the anime, then arsene should. It's just user being op.
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>Any persona that's lv 99 stomps on anyone in Jojo due to the dependable skills.
I'd like to see Pixie stomp Novel Kars, Novel Dio, HA Dio, Act 4 or Love Train.
I'd like to see Pixie stomp Novel Kars, Novel Dio, HA Dio, Act 4 or Love Train.
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Ok thanks for the clarification.
Also, as said, no level 99 persona dont solo jojo. Thats impossible. Going back to the arsene thing. Which joker key is being used?
Also, as said, no level 99 persona dont solo jojo. Thats impossible. Going back to the arsene thing. Which joker key is being used?
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What are levels being brought up for?
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