Resident evil revisions

[gamerleony]

so my first argument is that just like captain america's shield, the krauser's blade-arm should have a different durability from his body, at least initially
Since he can defend himself from RPGs with him and RPGs are listed being high 8-C. this is true in lore and in gameplay. as listed in this official game guide.



http://projectumbrella.net/articles/biohazard-4-Kaitai-Shinsho

now possible upgrade for krauser and verdugo durability.
Krauser survives this explosion:



and in gameplay survives an RPG shot in the body. El gigantes have a high 8-C feats and cannot survive a RPG.

Project NF: Resident Evil Calcs

vsbattles.fandom.com

https://imgur.com/a/RFQNNMP

Which makes sense in lore since krauser has a master plaga, which should be stronger than the normal plaga.



same thing for the verdugo where on his page he is listed to survive RPG shots and has only 9-A in durability.

Also leon can also hurt krauser in h2h in one of the qtes.



And canonically survived a attack from saddler that should have been more powerful than a el gigante.



And can do this:

https://imgur.com/a/0pWYUaM

https://imgur.com/a/WXenHvi

Now for krauser AP
this video shows how strong the attack with his blade should be:

https://youtu.be/0r60oAyv8zI

yes this is a mod that allows you to control krauser in the parts of other characters and can use his special attack. all normal enemies die for an attack from his blade.
and all bosses die for two attacks in a row.
except sadler and himself which takes much more, which makes sense in lore since he is supposed to be the strongest enemy in the game apart from the saddler.

https://imgur.com/a/V8Y84DU

if he can seriously injure an el gigante with his blade attack the attack should be high 8-C.

In Wesker Speed is listed to outrun grenade explosions and hypersonic, but he can outrun explosions even when the grenade was thrown way less than 1 meter from him.

https://imgur.com/a/lMPsROT

although it is probably incalculable he can also do this:

https://imgur.com/a/rRnD7YF

his speed should be a little higher at least.

he also should be at least comparable krauser so he should have a high 8-C AP.

alexia should scale AP to krauser and wesker as she was stronger than Wesker in code veronica. when it comes to durability, she was killed by a much more powerful weapon than an RPG as well.
And should scale to wesker's Speed, since she was faster than him in code veronica.

another thing, why does chris not scale to wesker in speed and AP if there are several qte in gameplay where he dodge wesker attacks and can harm him in h2h, wesker is faster and stronger but the difference cannot be that big.
in all the fights in which chris faced wesker, he was only defeated after facing him for several minutes.

in code veronica the first fight, Wesker surprised chris with his speed and won but Chris still managed to hurt wesker with a punch.

the second time in code veronica chris was tired and out of ammunition for facing alexia but still managed to dodge wesker and outsmart him (aside from the fact that he won alexia fair and square 2 times, who is at least equal to wesker in Speed in the First form)

https://imgur.com/a/AhxuuIm

https://imgur.com/a/AadyIsV

in the third in re5 dlc wesker only really wins after facing chris and jill for several minutes, that is when chris and jill got tired and then the cutscene plays.

the fourth time chris does not face wesker head on and uses stealth to catch wesker off guard, in this fight wesker retreats because 7 minutes have passed and chris was still alive.

the fifth time wesker says he will kill chris quickly. he can't. chris uses stealth, rpgs and the syringe to beat Wesker. In this fight there is a new qte where Chris and Sheva can dodge the Wesker's rhino charge 5 times in a row. but there is a problem since in this fight Wesker is trying to kill Chris quickly and the fight starts with Wesker looking directly at him which means he would still have to face and knock him out for a while before turning off the lights, in lore at least, this new qte I'm talking about allows Chris and Sheva to knock out Wesker without using weapons.

https://imgur.com/a/vvSCEIL

in the sixth and final fight against wesker post virus, in this fight there are several times that chris and sheva dodge wesker's attacks. Wesker is weaker but can still dodge bullets at point blank range and move as if he were teleporting so his Speed is in the same level.

Also Chris and piers can survive RPG blast at point blank range in Re6 two times in the same chapter.

https://imgur.com/a/H7KrgWx

9-A for top tier human is too low. when they have feats of hurting monsters much stronger than 9-A in h2h and surviving attacks stronger than 9-A.

And since uroboros excella survived the orbital satellite laser, uroboros wesker and excella should scale to this:

https://imgur.com/a/5jyuawm

https://imgur.com/a/mOIT304

and Chris boulder punching feat it is a little bigger in lifting strength, yes he was pushing the stone but with calcs
the boulder weighed more than 100 tons with low ball, there is no chance of being less than 20 tons of strength that he was doing.

now on the canon issue, i think umbrella chronicles and darkside chronicles should have the feats considered, since in general there is nothing that gets in the way of the canon of games in general and capcom considers canonical games as well.
for example while in the darkside chronicles version leon and claire work together, you might think "they weren't together in re2 so it’s not canon" but in the Canon animation degeneration in the flashback show that they were working together in the city something that never happened in re2.

the same thing in umbrella chronicles that shows chris and jill working together. in the classic resident evil games they follow a canon of plot points, for example "who defeated the tyrant?"
the games never said anything, "who was arrested?" nothing is said, nor is it known if someone was arrested.
so i think we could use feats from these games since the canon of the first 4 games is debatable and capcom considers them canonical as well.
if allowed we will be able to use these speed feats:

https://imgur.com/a/PKpVGbh

https://imgur.com/a/BGjlBPV

in conclusion, top tiers should have upgrades in speed and power.

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, being able to deflect rockets doesn't mean he scales to their explosions. As for him tanking rockets during fights, it could be chalked up to game mechanics. If there's a cutscene of him outright tanking an explosive shot from an RPG, then I won't disagree.

Secondly, tanking a multi-building busting explosion depends on a lot of factors. Even if it was at point-blank range, he'd have nowhere near the surface area to tank the full yield of the explosion. Were Jack and the explosives in the same room during the blast? Were there multiple explosives spread across that stretch of the town?

Third, assuming it's an RPG-7, he'd have a Transonic feat to substantiate his current speed, in addition to the Supersonic bullet deflecting you provided.

Lastly, the vast majority of these feats can be chalked up to gameplay mechanics. Dodging Wesker's attacks, surviving the RPG in the elevator, etc, are fine, though. Also, Chris can harm the Ogromen, which are 30 foot tall monsters capable of withstanding A.P.C fire and crushing a church.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Interesting

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, normally I hesitate on scaling weapons and firearms from their targets. I'm still working on clarifying that in a general discussion; but bullets and explosives that aren't supernatural in nature, aren't made some kind of supermetals, and simply lack an impressive own destruction feat. They don't have to have all of those but one of those combined with consistent showings of harming them is fine. But firearms that are pretty much intended to be based on real world counterparts should be judged from their own calculations.

I'm not that knowledgeable on Resident Evil, and I recall rockets in the RE Universe do have feats of them being stronger than normal rockets, but still unsure about making all rockets High 8-C. But I could change my mind if there's some feats. I also know El Gigantes have consistent High 8-C feats.

 

[Eficiente]

I'll comment here later but I at least agree with the part about Krauser and Leon's combat speed.

 

[Abstractions]

I'm not that knowledgeable on Resident Evil, and I recall rockets in the RE Universe do have feats of them being stronger than normal rockets, but still unsure about making all rockets High 8-C. But I could change my mind if there's some feats. I also know El Gigantes have consistent High 8-C feats.

The calculation the El Gigantes are scaled to suggests what was done was violent fragmentation, however it was not. Doing the same calculation as regular fragmentation results in 9-A+.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

On second thought, I retract that and actually support downgrades now.

 

[gamerleony]

resident evil weapons are consistently stronger than in real life. and it has its own feats.







even if the high 8-C feat is disregarded (although i disagree) the rpg would still be 8-C and some characters would be upgraded.

Also there is this feat for el gigantes

Boulder punching feats

vsbattles.fandom.com

I am not a mathematician but based on these quick calculations it seems to me to be high 8-C.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree RE Firearms are significantly stronger than RL counterparts, Pistol having its own 9-B feat; rifles being quite a bit stronger; and rockets also much stronger even than that. But those destruction feats should be calculated.

 

[ByAsura]

I deleted my comment (the first one) after this got closed again. I've restored it.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

I agree the evidence for the fire arms being considerably more powerful than their real life counterparts is solid and undeniable. The boulder feats are neat and should be subjected to evluation.

 

[Abstractions]

Also there is this feat for el gigantes

Not the same thing, Las Plagas and Uroboros are incomparable in this regard.

 

[Eficiente]

• High 8-C for Krauser's blade-arm's durability is correct.
• Krauser dodging bullets and Leon keeping up with him is correct
• Krauser surviving that explosion needs to be calc'ed.
• Leon should not scale to being slammed of all things or hit in gameplay, he has way to many anti-feats for it and always has issues with the rest of the weaker things in the verse.
• What he does in a mod doesn't matter here as there is no way for him to do that in gameplay.
• Wesker's speed is..odd, I feel like he gets to do that matrix superhuman stuff in terms of literal reactions but that his combat speed isn't as fast.
• With that said, yes he should scale to that electricity, and that should be calc'ed too.
• Idk why he should be at least comparable Krauser.
• Beating Wesker is BS due to how much sh*t you have to shoot at him to do so, it's an outlier regardless of all those times they did so. In speed they should scale if we agree that Wesker's speed isn't always at the peak of it's shown.
• Do we have a calc for the satellite laser feat and uroboros Excell surviving it?
• I don't agree that the L.T.D scales to the satellite laser due to being the same tech concentrated, that can just be it working on a lower scale.
• Likewise I don't see how the other weapon should be scaled.

 

[gamerleony]

Not the same thing, Las Plagas and Uroboros are incomparable in this regard.

That is a Las plagas Monster, there are only 5 uroboros Monsters in the entire game. 2 imperfect uroboros, 1 excella uroboros, wesker uroboros and the african cockroach.

 

[ByAsura]

@gamerleony Is there some extra context to that mod thing? Otherwise, Eficiente is 100% right that mods aren't considered canon.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Abstractions brought up another solid problem for the High 8-C durability feat.

 

[gamerleony]

@gamerleony Is there some extra context to that mod thing? Otherwise, Eficiente is 100% right that mods aren't considered canon.

is a mod that takes the character that is controllable in a minigame called mercenaries, in this mode you can activate the krauser's special attack, it kills all enemies that in one attack.
but doesn't have the most powerful monsters in that mode, so this mod allows you to play with this character in the leon parts and see how strong the attack really is.
although it is a mod, the strength of the attack is consistent with the story, as the only ones that can survive more than two attacks are krauser himself and saddler the final boss.

 

[ByAsura]

Mercenaries is side content stages, and therefore non-canon. By this same token, we consider Prototype Force Multipliers to be non-canon.

Being consistent with in-game strength is irrelevant, especially since this would be considered gameplay mechanics.

 

[gamerleony]

Mercenaries is side content stages, and therefore non-canon. By this same token, we consider Prototype Force Multipliers to be non-canon.

Being consistent with in-game strength is irrelevant, especially since this would be considered gameplay mechanics.

That is fine, ok, but we still have to see the question if rocket launcher remain high 8-C for one-shot el gigantes in gameplay, krauser would receive high 8-C durability for surviving a shot in gameplay, no?

 

[ByAsura]

I wouldn't say it's out of the ordinary, but there's not that much evidence for it outside of gameplay (we treat gameplay and cutscenes differently), and that guide extract even says he just deflects rockets. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if he could tank RPGs, though, especially since he's the final boss of that game and Gigante isn't.

 

[Galvino]

In the scan with Krauser and Leon's combat speed, its say Krauser died from a bullet to the head. Isn't that an Anti-feat for normal durability (ignoring arm)? In lore, he stills seems weak against knife attacks and shots to the head. Surviving an RPG is most likely just game mechanics.

 

[Abstractions]

That is a Las plagas Monster, there are only 5 uroboros Monsters in the entire game. 2 imperfect uroboros, 1 excella uroboros, wesker uroboros and the african cockroach.

My mistake, but they come from a different type of Plagas developed by Tricell which were used to make the Majini, it's a strengthened version of the Plagas and shouldn't be used to scale directly to the inferior versions.

 

[gamerleony]

In the scan with Krauser and Leon's combat speed, its say Krauser died from a bullet to the head. Isn't that an Anti-feat for normal durability (ignoring arm)? In lore, he stills seems weak against knife attacks and shots to the head. Surviving an RPG is most likely just game mechanics.

Well the resident evil knife can hurt el gigantes in gameplay and qtes, moreover, since krauser was dodging bullets, leon had to use his own speed to beat krauser. And the guide does not specify which weapon was used.

 

[gamerleony]

My mistake, but they come from a different type of Plagas developed by Tricell which were used to make the Majini, it's a strengthened version of the Plagas and shouldn't be used to scale directly to the inferior versions.

The el gigante of re5 was made with plaga type 2, however for what I read in history the plaga type 2 does not increase the strength of the user in relation to type 1, what it does is this:

"Type 2 Plagas were created by Tricell, Inc. It is formed by a sample of the normal Plaga parasite being combined with leech DNA. The original Plagas had to find a way into the host in its egg form and be given time to develop within the host. Unfortunately, this means it takes a great deal of time for an infected host to fall under the parasite's control. This was most notably demonstrated in Leon S. Kennedy, who ruined Osmund Saddler's plan of world domination and saved Ashley Graham despite both of them having been injected with Plagas eggs, which they were eventually able to remove.

Type 2 was developed to eliminate said drawback by maturing much, much faster. Infestation of Type 2 occurs by force-feeding an already mature parasite into the mouth of an unwilling host. In this way, the growth rate was drastically increased and the host was under total control of the Plaga in a matter of seconds, much to Tricell's liking.
Although Type 2 Plagas have been strengthened enough to withstand very strong natural sunlight, Flash Grenades emit such intense light that exposed Plagas will immediately die if they are in the affected area."

 

[Abstractions]

Well the resident evil knife can hurt el gigantes in gameplay and qtes, moreover, since krauser was dodging bullets, leon had to use his own speed to beat krauser. And the guide does not specify which weapon was used.

I wouldn't use the knife as evidence for the tier, as the knife is used to target the vulnerable Plaga that emerges from the back of the Gigante when it's staggered, it wouldn't be scaling to their full durability.

The guide does mention Krauser's arm could block rockets and we can see that in gameplay, however we never know the canon equipment Leon uses within the game, which goes into my next point:

I don't think any other monsters should scale to it, I think scaling the bosses linearly creates a problem because with Assignment Ada we know it only takes one rocket to kill Saddler, and on why I don't think he should scale to Gigantes is because their only appearance in the games has them locked away behind a cage or in the mines where they can cause the least harm, as Saddler could not control them.

On Verdugo, I'm fairly certain there was a game mechanic it relied on that allowed it to take a 1/3rd of the regular damage when it was not frozen, which allows it to inexplicably survive such things.

The el gigante of re5 was made with plaga type 2, however for what I read in history the plaga type 2 does not increase the strength of the user in relation to type 1, what it does is this:

"Type 2 Plagas were created by Tricell, Inc. It is formed by a sample of the normal Plaga parasite being combined with leech DNA. The original Plagas had to find a way into the host in its egg form and be given time to develop within the host. Unfortunately, this means it takes a great deal of time for an infected host to fall under the parasite's control. This was most notably demonstrated in Leon S. Kennedy, who ruined Osmund Saddler's plan of world domination and saved Ashley Graham despite both of them having been injected with Plagas eggs, which they were eventually able to remove.

Type 2 was developed to eliminate said drawback by maturing much, much faster. Infestation of Type 2 occurs by force-feeding an already mature parasite into the mouth of an unwilling host. In this way, the growth rate was drastically increased and the host was under total control of the Plaga in a matter of seconds, much to Tricell's liking.
Although Type 2 Plagas have been strengthened enough to withstand very strong natural sunlight, Flash Grenades emit such intense light that exposed Plagas will immediately die if they are in the affected area."

It mentions there that the Plaga itself is indeed stronger as it could now withstand flash grenades, which previous versions of the Plaga could not. We also know that the Plagas prior were also variable, we see this with Chainsaw Ganados and Mendez, having stronger Plagas means better capabalities.

On Mendez, I was planning on upgrading his speed prior as he's the only instance I see of Leon being blitzed to any extent within the game.

EDIT: Correction, not flash grenades, but strong sunlight. Which wasn't a capability before and whenever the Plagas emerged it was during the night.

 

[gamerleony]

Assignment Ada we know it only takes one rocket to kill Saddler,

Assigment Ada is non Canon, Just like the mercenaries. I find it very difficult for the final boss of the game to be weaker than the gigante when the canonical campaign requires 3 normal rocket launchers to kill saddler, and you can't even buy 3 rockets at once in re4. canonically saddler was destroyed by the red rocket launcher that can kill all enemies in the game in one shot.

On Verdugo, I'm fairly certain there was a game mechanic it relied on that allowed it to take a 1/3rd of the regular damage when it was not frozen, which allows it to inexplicably survive such things.

but the durability of the verdugo is supported by the lore that says that its shell is more resistant than metal or something and can reflect bullets.

It mentions there that the Plaga itself is indeed stronger as it could now withstand flash grenades, which previous versions of the Plaga could not.

this is more related to light resistance and not durability.

 

[gamerleony]

On Mendez, I was planning on upgrading his speed prior as he's the only instance I see of Leon being blitzed to any extent within the game.

in my opinion it is not necessary, since all the times leon was defeated by him was when he was using stealth or caught leon off guard. when they fight face to face in the boss fight leon wins without any problem.

 

[Abstractions]

Assigment Ada is non Canon, Just like the mercenaries. I find it very difficult for the final boss of the game to be weaker than the gigante when the canonical campaign requires 3 normal rocket launchers to kill saddler, and you can't even buy 3 rockets at once in re4. canonically saddler was destroyed by the red rocket launcher that can kill all enemies in the game in one shot.

I was confused with Separate Ways when I said that, which is canon. It covers the events Ada went through on Leon's mission which she provides him the singular rocket that kills Saddler.

The Rocket Launcher Special has no gameplay difference to the regular, they function the same except for the Special triggering the cutscene to kill Saddler.

but the durability of the verdugo is supported by the lore that says that its shell is more resistant than metal or something and can reflect bullets.

In which Leon could still very well kill or ignore without a rocket, as the nitrogen was there for this purpose.

this is more related to light resistance and not durability.

It does not specify it to this specifically, and I clarified this with the comparison to the Chainsaw Ganado and Mendez having stronger Plagas which made them superior to regular Ganado. It just means the Majini are much stronger than the Ganados.

in my opinion it is not necessary, since all the times leon was defeated by him was when he was using stealth or caught leon off guard. when they fight face to face in the boss fight leon wins without any problem.

We witness him go in front of Leon without him noticing prior to their fight.

 

[Galvino]

Well the resident evil knife can hurt el gigantes in gameplay and qtes, moreover, since krauser was dodging bullets, leon had to use his own speed to beat krauser. And the guide does not specify which weapon was used.

Are you saying it's an RPG that Leon pulled out quickly, after putting away his knife, and shot at Krauser's head? If it isn't an RPG Leon pulled out, then Krasuser can't survive an RPG shot.

 

[gamerleony]

Are you saying it's an RPG that Leon pulled out quickly, after putting away his knife, and shot at Krauser's head? If it isn't an RPG Leon pulled out, then Krasuser can't survive an RPG shot.

it doesn't say it wasn't either.

 

[gamerleony]

The Rocket Launcher Special has no gameplay difference to the regular, they function the same except for the Special triggering the cutscene to kill Saddler.

if you use the red Rocket launcher on other monsters, including the verdugo without nitrogen, they all die with one shot, it is certainly stronger than other rocket launchers.

We witness him go in front of Leon without him noticing prior to their fight.

and then he is killed without touching leon in the boss fight. he was only smart to use stealth and attack when he wasn't expecting it.

 

[Abstractions]

if you use the red Rocket launcher on other monsters, including the verdugo without nitrogen, they all die with one shot, it is certainly stronger than other rocket launchers.

It isn't, the only difference is that it triggers the cutscene for Saddler, nothing else.

 

[gamerleony]

It isn't, the only difference is that it triggers the cutscene for Saddler, nothing else.

5:25

 

[Abstractions]

5:25

Then the regular rocket kills Verdugo, because nowhere does the game acknowledge them as different save for Saddler's cutscene.

Even with Krauser I'm fairly sure his health value retains damage done prior to the mutation.

You'd need to show me values stating their difference.

EDIT: Just to find out for myself, another video demonstrates regular rockets taking more, however it doesn't exactly change why Saddler shouldn't scale to something he in-canon doesn't take.

 

[gamerleony]

Then the regular rocket kills Verdugo, because nowhere does the game acknowledge them as different save for Saddler's cutscene.

Even with Krauser I'm fairly sure his health value retains damage done prior to the mutation.

You'd need to show me values stating their difference.

The Verdugo survives the normal, dies to the special.
Krauser survives the normal dies to the special.
saddler survives the normal dies to special.
Is Very clear to me that is stronger than the normal.

Also the item description is different:

https://www.evilresource.com/resident-evil-4/weaponry/rocket-launcher-special

https://www.evilresource.com/resident-evil-4/weaponry/rocket-launcher

what i think is that the enemies that survive the normal rocket launcher should scale.
they are always the most powerful enemies in lore who achieve this.
Of course it makes sense for you to worry about game mechanics, but in resident evil it's pretty consistent in that sense.

 

[Abstractions]

Also the item description is different:

The in-game description makes no mention of higher explosive value, which is what I've followed.

Regarding Krauser, we see him live the special in the video you show.

With Saddler, he only ever experiences the special in-game and dies to it.

 

[gamerleony]

The in-game description makes no mention of higher explosive value, which is what I've followed.

Regarding Krauser, we see him live the special in the video you show.

With Saddler, he only ever experiences the special in-game and dies to it.

krauser dies with one in the final battle which is the one that counts. before that he cannot die no matter the damage. because the game forces you to go through the two forms of krauser. which in this case is game mechanics.

is very simple:
krauser in the final battle can survive 1 normal rocket launcher, dies with 1 in the special.

saddler can survive 2 normals, dies with 1 in the special.

I'm just saying to scale the destructive power of the rocket launcher on these bosses since they can survive.

Same thing as with Wesker currently

 

[Abstractions]

My issue is that I don't fully agree it from the gameplay perspective, when presented with most other bosses the knife takes an exceptional amount of time that scaling Leon would be silly, however with Krauser we are presented with both an anti-feat and a feat at the same time.

Scaling Krauser to a rocket when other monsters take much longer to kill through the knife and die instantly to rockets just isn't feasible to me.

The problem with Saddler is that regardless of gameplay we know he has no opportunity to survive a rocket, Ada presents Leon with the Special and that's it.

In fact, he is momentarily put down by Ada who wouldn't have used a rocket in her scenario.

 

[gamerleony]

My issue is that I don't fully agree it from the gameplay perspective, when presented with most other bosses the knife takes an exceptional amount of time that scaling Leon would be silly, however with Krauser we are presented with both an anti-feat and a feat at the same time.

Scaling Krauser to a rocket when other monsters take much longer to kill through the knife and die instantly to rockets just isn't feasible to me.

The problem with Saddler is that regardless of gameplay we know he has no opportunity to survive a rocket, Ada presents Leon with the Special and that's it.

In fact, he is momentarily put down by Ada who wouldn't have used a rocket in her scenario.

well a jj takes way more knife to kill than krauser, but to say that they are stronger than krauser is very strange.

I think the knife is just a situation that is related to the lore of the game since it was essential for the defeat of krauser since he could dodge leon's guns.

Base form saddler also survives the more than 1 normal Rocket launcher
Which is consistent.

that said what is your opinion on the AP of the rocket launchers?

 

[Galvino]

it doesn't say it wasn't either.

Occam's Razor would have it that Leon pulled out a gun that made it possible for him to dodge Krauser's attack quickly, pull out a knife and slice him, and then pull it out out quickly enough Krauser wouldn't counter. Meaning it would be less of an assumption to think Leon simply pulled out a pistol than it would be to think he pulled out an RPG. We know for a fact that knives can hurt Krauser, then a pistol would bop him like it did in the scan you posted.