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Rimuru VS alpha

JoshSSJGod said:
Okay? This doesn't really tell me anything about how he can just jump up over 40 layers at a faster rate than Alpha can.
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Bassicly, he can instantly create skills that have "layers" from earlier existing skills, and he can continiue to do that for intinity, not to mention he can copy, mimic, improve all abilities he has seen or analyzed. (So anything that dosen't instantly kill him will never work again, and will become a part of Rimuru's aresenal.

JoshSSJGod said:
Alpha is already capable of negating those. This is without Alpha's Reactive Evolution giving him access to Resistance Negation to bypass Rimuru's resistance to EE anywho.
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That's not how it works; he can't nullify abilities that he can't even interact with.

JoshSSJGod said:
Neat, that isn't covering the layered resistance. Even if it did Alpha does not need his body to function. His previous incarnation Alvis has existed without it.
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??? It's not just the body but the entirety of their "existence", that gets erased.
Nonexistence Erasure (Nature Type 2, Aspect Type 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 [Others: Space & Time, Life & Death, Law & Causality]
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JoshSSJGod said:
Thank you for actually giving me something and not just saying "ITS THIS HIGH ARE YOU STUPID?!". Though I would like to ask where that even is on his profile, I did not see it at all when looking through his resistances and the layering. The most I saw was 5 layers.
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As mentioned we have lots of shit on the profile, but it is accepted, this is one of them...
Agree @SomebodyData (Agree with Method 2, but is fine with Method 1 if most people think it works better), @King Tempest( Same as @SomebodyData), @Elizhaa (Same as @SomebodyData )
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JoshSSJGod said:
Okay? I mean yeah that is Void Manipulation but it isn't exactly boosting the potency of it at all just what it can affect.
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It's basically an NLF proff stuff, let's say I have basic ee, that doesn't mean I can also erase Souls and mind without proff, that is what I mean regarding the other aspects.
But yes, NEP 2 is completely unreachable with NEP 1, no matter how many layers, so NEP 2>infinite layers of NEP 1.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
Why so? Rimuru isn't mentioned to be nonexistent from Fate. Closest thing is Causality which still isn't the same. It isn't like Alpha is manipulating the concept itself against Rimuru.
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That's the thing, you don't assume his fate hax can interact with Rimuru unless said fate hax is shown to work on nonexistent concepts ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯

The only way to bypass this would be if said fate hax is self inflicted, aka it makes the user always win, rather than the enemy always lose

And even then, it would need proof to be able to do something against Rimuru's cm NEP.

JoshSSJGod said:
They really are.
While it is already mentioned on profile a page for it specifically is a current W.I.P much like the formula stuff mentioned prior (Alpha could use a page-revamp anywho as well its a few years old without any updates).
The quick tldr of it though is that you need to match the layers of the Ether Concentration user in order to interact with them. This applies to Alpha given he is an Ether Based Being rather than having a tradition body made of matter. What it covers is everything Ether is capable of interacting with/doing which would be everything on Alpha's profile itself alongside basically everything in the verse. From what I read of Rimuru's profile he doesn't have anything that can bypass this directly (unless he has something like Plot Manip under his sleeve) as everything he has is also an application of Ether. For example, the Corruption and Transmutation you mentioned earlier are something that would fall under Alpha's Ether Concentration.

If ya wanna know anything else lemme know, I'm heading to bed.
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Hmm, so the npi resistance is limited to what ether itself can interact with?
In that case Rimuru would just bypass the NPI res with other things alpha doesn't resist or circumvent it by other means... Like sealing Alpha along with his surroundings instead and making them lower dimensional via Dimensional Manipulation (it's in his demon lord key).
From sba:
Victory Conditions: Removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting them in a state in which they can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.
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Since this is about bypassing npi resistance rather than lacking interaction for things alpha is AE on, this would still work.

I also don't see how Alpha will not be incapacitated by a cosmology nuke (since alpha doesn't have BDE1, I don't see how he'd be able to do anything in an environment lacking space and time. Sure he'd survive cuz npi, but he won't be able to harm Rimuru.

Though I'm curious on how his npi layers are infinite. Is it for his ether being infinite or something? A guess 🤔
 
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Astral_Trinity439 said:
Hmm, so the npi resistance is limited to what ether itself can interact with?
In that case Rimuru would just bypass the NPI res with other things alpha doesn't resist or circumvent it by other means... Like sealing Alpha along with his surroundings instead and making them lower dimensional via Dimensional Manipulation (it's in his demon lord key).
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The sealing one was actually something done before in XB1 with Alpha's previous incarnation Alvis but it didn't work as they has issue just leaving or going back to higher dimensions like Memory Space or just undoing the seal as he did in XB1.
Astral_Trinity439 said:
I also don't see how Alpha will not be incapacitated by a cosmology nuke (since alpha doesn't have BDE1, I don't see how he'd be able to do anything in an environment lacking space and time. Sure he'd survive cuz npi, but he won't be able to harm Rimuru.
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Alpha has existed in places beyond space and time before and he was fine in those scenarios so I don't think it would incapacitate him.
Astral_Trinity439 said:
Though I'm curious on how his npi layers are infinite. Is it for his ether being infinite or something? A guess 🤔
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Thats kinda close but not quite. The layering of Ether Concentration was based on size. The bigger you are the more layered it was (for example, an entity in xenoblade become more concentrated and thus became unaffected by things that could interact with it before by growing), Alpha's original incarnation Alvis is Large Size Type 10 surpassing infinite sized universes and Alpha's own Ether is more potent than his original incarnation. It got accepted awhile ago and its a fun ability to have since its essentially a safety net that makes XB guys really difficult to interact with.


The more I look at this the more I see a mismatch. Either Rimuru can just barely interact with Alpha enough to get an incap win or they just stare at each other n' thats it.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
The more I look at this the more I see a mismatch. Either Rimuru can just barely interact with Alpha enough to get an incap win or they just stare at each other n' thats it.
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I will still remaind that void manip on a nep2 level will work perfectly fine as EE resistence is useless. Alpha has well doesn't have bde1 interaction so yeah, digital nature Rimuru and Alpha will just stare at each other until Rimuru pulls out void chollapse
 
JoshSSJGod said:
The sealing one was actually something done before in XB1 with Alpha's previous incarnation Alvis but it didn't work as they has issue just leaving or going back to higher dimensions like Memory Space or just undoing the seal as he did in XB1.
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Can you quote where that is on the page?
JoshSSJGod said:
Alpha has existed in places beyond space and time before and he was fine in those scenarios so I don't think it would incapacitate him.
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Not indexed on his profile 🙃
Or at least, I don't see BDE on his profile
Existing in places beyond time space (like timeless voids) doesn't grant BDE1 btw. It's just resistance of sorts and even that depends on context.
JoshSSJGod said:
Thats kinda close but not quite. The layering of Ether Concentration was based on size. The bigger you are the more layered it was (for example, an entity in xenoblade become more concentrated and thus became unaffected by things that could interact with it before by growing), Alpha's original incarnation Alvis is Large Size Type 10 surpassing infinite sized universes and Alpha's own Ether is more potent than his original incarnation. It got accepted awhile ago and its a fun ability to have since its essentially a safety net that makes XB guys really difficult to interact with.
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I see
 
Astral_Trinity439 said:
Can you quote where that is on the page?
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Its in the Sealing and the Unconventional Resistance to it.

Astral_Trinity439 said:
Not indexed on his profile 🙃
Or at least, I don't see BDE on his profile
Existing in places beyond time space (like timeless voids) doesn't grant BDE1 btw. It's just resistance of sorts and even that depends on context.
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Is it not? I thought I had the Memory Space stuff there, if it isn't then I'll get around to fixing that later. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
Its in the Sealing and the Unconventional Resistance to it.
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This?
Unconventional Resistance to Sealing (The Monado 3 was able to undo the seal on the Xenoblade 1 Universe)
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Sealing (Ontos was responsible for sealing the new universe and the new universe is described as a "sealed universe" by the series creator)
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Not gonna lie, I don't see how it comes even close to Rimuru's lvl of sealing, which reduces the Target's dimensionality as well, trapping them in an imaginary number space.
Dimensional Manipulation (Offensive - Via <Uriel: Lord of Vows>, can seal/move a target to an infinite Imaginary Number Space, thus removing their existence (and extension) from Reality (Real Dimensions), isolating them from the rest of the world for all time - Defensive - Can also isolate oneself inside Imaginary Number Space and thus use it as a defense, preventing any interference from reality and achieving absolute defense)
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On his demon lord key.

You might have forgotten to update hie sealing too xd
JoshSSJGod said:
Is it not? I thought I had the Memory Space stuff there, if it isn't then I'll get around to fixing that later. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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Np
 
Astral_Trinity439 said:
This?


Not gonna lie, I don't see how it comes even close to Rimuru's lvl of sealing, which reduces the Target's dimensionality as well, trapping them in an imaginary number space.

On his demon lord key.

You might have forgotten to update hie sealing too xd

Np
Click to expand...
Oh sorry I thought ya were mentioning the sealing and dimensional stuff as seperate things. Funnily enough there is a Dimensional Hax like that in the Xeno Series called the Hilbert Effect. Its not currently something the Blade characters have access to however so womp womp.
 
JoshSSJGod said:
Oh sorry I thought ya were mentioning the sealing and dimensional stuff as seperate things. Funnily enough there is a Dimensional Hax like that in the Xeno Series called the Hilbert Effect. Its not currently something the Blade characters have access to however so womp womp.
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Well, me reaffirming my vote for Rimuru via Dimensional Sealing + Alpha lacking NPI, then (⁠^⁠^⁠)
 
Probs, though in this scenario where Alpha can't interact with Rimuru then ya won't be able to add this to profiles.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
I remember none of this being the case.
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We got NEP 1, accpeted for demons now, so yes it is (Though the physical body changes it's chareteristics based on the environment around it)

Tatsumi504 said:
Ackshually🤓, if one resists conversion to nonexistence itself, they can resist NEP 2 erasure. There's no fundamental difference between affecting NEP 1 and 2 besides NPI
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Spoken like a true Redditor, but yeah, NEP 2 is just deeper NEP 1, and NEP 3 is clearly just deeper NEP 2, right?
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
We got NEP 1, accpeted for demons now, so yes it is (Though the physical body changes it's chareteristics based on the environment around it)
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Yeah and I recall you all telling me in the thread that they are only NEP when not incarnated.
Dark_Soul20189 said:
Spoken like a true Redditor, but yeah, NEP 2 is just deeper NEP 1, and NEP 3 is clearly just deeper NEP 2, right?
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All jokes aside, EE is EE. If something is erased, it has been reduced to nothing. Having EE that erases NEP 2 doesn't suddenly make it more potent. It's one thing if your argument was based on not being able to resist the erasure of the aspects that the EE has been shown to affect such as concept, info, soul etc. but here its just NPI.

Also, I call bull on that layered NPI via energy. How in the world does that even make sense? Can someone explain it please?
 
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