so is there a win con for rokuro as hax? (dunno both of these characters)
Shadow clones + Corners him + shoot multiple Rasenshuriken at the same time, which has dura neg btw
Shields aren't protecting him if Naruto's AP is higher
How so
Not like Naruto can't jump high or shoot him in the air
How does it work?
Naruto has been shown using clones to maneuver mid air quite often. Against Sasuke, against Kakashi, and against Fukasaku. He's also been shown using chakra arms and Kurama avatar for additional maneuverability mid air with kcm1 and kcm2. So flying should certainly not be an issue.
I'm not sure if that'd work on Naruto here. Chakra is the result of combining both spiritual and physical energy.
So? Conceptually it's the same thing. It doesn't matter whether you're maneuvering 80 meters in the air or 800 meters in the air, you're still doing the exact same thing.
Same as before but even worse. Kyubi chakra is unique even compared to regular chakra, so simply controlling spiritual energy won't allow him to control it. And in the case of these arms they appear as literal extensions of Narutos physical human arms so it's even more unlikely they'd be controlled
Yet he hasn't done so and even if he can so what? He's not a flying fighter it's not like he's gonna be able to fight the same way.
Yeah I don't it being the combination is going to matter, Spiritual Power in the twin star is already the fundamental energy of the universe and is the origin of everything within it so there's no reason he couldn't.
I don't see how this will work while Rokuro's moving around and flying in the air.
I'd say his go to at the start is hand to hand mixed with his danmakus which range in the thousands and can lock on to targets across an entire island so he'll have the range to destroy Naruto's clones. Most of his hax are generally active ones and or just part of his physiology so I'm not sure which one's you're talking about.
Appeal to ignorance. Just because he hasn't done so doesn't mean he can't. He simply didn't need to.
So? Point is that he can very much fight mid-air meaning simply flying won't save Rokuro here.
You do realize that's still completely different from chakra right? Especially kyubi chakra.
You don't see how Naruto using his large numbers advantage and superior intelligence to land a sneak attack is going to work? What do you think stops it?
No you really did not. You gave me examples of him training with Pa, and him fighting slightly above ground, something a majority of ninjas do.
It does though. Chakra is spiritual and physical, Spiritual Power is the source of everything in the world, it's life force, it's the physical, it's emotion, it's everything. There is no equalization happening here, for clarification I'm saying Spiritual Power is fundamental and at the core of existence that Chakra would still fall under it.
Please read my previous comments to others, I've mentioned how Rokuro can summon attacks in the thousands and he can spam it. I'm not sure about the intelligence, from what I read on page for his war arc self, and from me reading Naruto, Rokuro and Naruto are both relative in terms of strategies, quick thinking, formulating counters, and being unpredictable. I don't think he'll land a sneak attack on Rokuro given Rokuro's telepathy and his senses.
Well Naruto and his clones have danger sensing, shunshin (if speed amps are allowed here) and transformation jutsu so not sure how successful ranged attacks will be, even if they can lock onto targets
I guess just any that he uses/benefits from regularly
Again, you do understand that the height doesn't matter to the actual combat right? There being more or less distance between you and the ground does not affect how difficult it is to maneuver mid air. Being able to fight and stay 10 meters above the ground is identical to doing the same at 10 kilometers above the ground.
Again that's different from chakra.
No that's not what it means.
Yeah and Naruto is not only stronger meaning he can block them but also can spam attacks so that's not an automatic win.
Rokuro has average intelligence, Naruto is has genius combat intelligence. That's a pretty major gap.
Naruto could catch people with various danger sensing and precognition abilities by surprise, simple telepathy is not enough to stop him. Also
Yes they are. Meaning Naruto using shunshin would have a speed advantage as well
No they spawn right by the target. He won't engage in h2h if Naruto starts chucking rasengans.
Then yeah everything is pretty much just phys or passive.
What you showed is Naruto utilizing the environment near the ground like him putting his kunai into the statue and then making the Naruto ladder and swinging them at Sasuke so yeah the height matters for that. And then with Pa he's literally using Pa to kick off and jump higher meaning he'd have to keep doing this as the clones get destroyed by Rokuro. Idk why you're still on this when all I've been arguing is that it's gonna be harder to fight in the air constantly.
Yang is the righteous Spiritual Power. It is still Spiritual Power. Rokuro has control over Yin energy as well can combine them.
We don't scale combat skill anymore off being genius or average, it's just off feats.
Who could read Naruto's thoughts and still got surprised.
Both have speed amps.
That's literally just 1/3 examples I gave which was done by 12 year old Naruto as an example of him using clones to gain movement...
Sure? Still means he can keep up with him mid air.
You asked when has Naruto fought and hit someone in air. I'm explaining to you that he very much CAN fight and hit people mid air very effectively.
Yes and chakra isn't spiritual power, it's the combination of spiritual energy and physical energy kneaded into something entirely different.
Sure but his control over other people's energy is accepted to be only for Yang spiritual power.
Except we're not talking about skill but intelligence here.
Stop strawmanning me, I didn't say anyone could read Narutos thoughts.
My point is that Naruto can very much still catch people offguard despite a variety of abilities making them aware of his actions.
The Sasuke and Kakashi ones are both close to the ground. Not gonna go back forth over this aerial combat, its clear Naruto's at a slight disadvantage.
Spiritual Power isn't just spiritual I've already said that. It's the source of everything, and Rokuro has control over it. Him controlling Yang energy doesn't make it different from controlling spiritual power.
Intelligence in combat. And the page says this about his general intelligence.
Stop strawmanning me, I didn't say anyone could read Narutos thoughts.
I didn't say you did, I asked you when Naruto did it. Okay I'm glad that's your point, my point is that someone surprising other senses and abilities doesn't mean they can surprise their mind being read unless it's something similar. And no, he's not overwhelming Rokuro's mind, he can read thousands of people's mind across the island, an island which has over 10k people on it. Spamming danmaku is in character for Rokuro too.
For the last time bro, THE HEIGHT DOESN'T MATTER. Like your only argument is not even an argument. It's like saying that just because you can swim in a 2 meter deep pool doesn't mean you can swim in a 300 meter deep pool.
Which is irrelevant as that's something entirely different from chakra.
Which isn't chakra and him being able to control this very specific type of very specific ability/energy does not grant him the ability to control every type of every ability/energy ever. That's called NLF
Unless specified otherwise his BIQ would just be considered equal to his regular intelligence. Having different BIQ and regular IQ is something unordinary.
Asking when Naruto did it implies there's a reason for you to believe he did so. In other words asking me that very blatantly implies I said so.
Being able to detect danger before it happens is far superior to simple mind reading. Since you don't consciously think about every single movement you make, and reading multiple minds at once would overlap, making it kinda useless.
The scans in his profile literally show him being overwhelmed by simply hearing too many voices.
Never denied it, actually quite the opposite. I already explained why it wouldn't really matter.
No, BIQ and IQ are distinct, across several pages. And again one's combat intelligence isn't being rated anymore on profiles, a crt was made for this. And I just showed you Naruto's own page saying he's average intellect.
I asked because it's what I was talking about initially. And stop assuming something off a question.
Who senses danger before it happens that Naruto surprised?
Like I said previously, the island has over 10k people on it, can Naruto do over 10k clones to overwhelm Rokuro? And this Rokuro is also weaker than the one in this match as well. He pinpoints Benio among all the voices in the same imgur link.
How much stronger? Base to base Rokuro and Naruto are barely a 2x difference, so what makes Naruto's able to just swat them away? Rokuro's danmaku are also stronger than his base and he can then amp his danmakus as well.
100 profiles out ot 50000 is still "unordinary".
First of all that CRT didn't come to an accepted conclusion yet and is still open as far as I'm aware.
Yeah normal intelligence not combat intelligence.
I'm not assuming anything. You either worded the sentence horribly or you blatantly implied I said he did that.
Kaguya for example.
Just because 10k people overwhelmed Rokuro doesn't mean less people can't overwhelm him.
Pinpointing a specific voice is completely different from analyzing over dozen voices and coming up with a counter strategy to each of their individual thoughts.
Yeah. Besides being 2x stronger Naruto can spam rasengans which not only protect his fists from a direct blow but are a one-shot above his physical stats.
Yeah same with basic rasengans. A rasengan can match the chidori which is strong enough to go through Narutos body like a hot knife through butter. And Naruto has like 10 higher versions of the rasengan that far increase in both range and power making it easy to deflect danmaku.
Skill and combat intell are the same thing.
I asked you a basic question about what we were talking about. Just drop it already.
I don't see her danger sensing on profile. What are you referring to?
Okay so prove a lower amount can overwhelm him.
There's nothing complex about Rokuro just creating a massive energy field.
When has Naruto one shot someone equal to him in KCM? Please start showing what you're bringing up so I know the context.
A Chidori one shots because it pierces, it doesn't one shot just because its powerful. And Rokuro's durability can be amped to the point he can tank attacks that would one shot like he did against Hijirimaru, he can also enter his flame berge transformation which also increase his power several times. And while we're on the topic of durability, Rokuro in base while fighting generates a spatial aura that is dangerous, so fighting up close isn't the best for Naruto.
No necessarily. You can have an absolute godly skill in terms of accuracy, martial arts, weapons usage, energy control, predictions, etc, and still be a complete doofus when it comes to making strategies and understanding the flow of the fight.
No, what you did is a form of something called a "loaded question".
You're the one not dropping it tho…?
The profile is incomplete (it doesn't even have her signature regeneration lol) but it does kinda state it
And Naruto has danger sensing
I don’t need to…?
I mean sure but that's not going to protect him from like 20 attacks each well over 4x stronger than himself.
I literally explained how a rasengan is a one shot amp above his base stats in the very same message, idk what more context do you want from me.
Interesting headcanon given chidori is wider than a hand and yet clearly more powerful than a regular kunai (which has a much smaller point of contact and therefore a more piercing-ability). Do you have any evidence providing this headcanon?
I mean that's cool and all but that doesn't save him here. Anything above rasengan barrage is doing more than 4x his AP/durability and Naruto can spam these over and over again
You do have to prove it as you said it.
What I've claimed is that he won't be overwhelmed by the thoughts. The surprise aspect is still uncertain since all you've brought up is Kaguya which is contradicted by the manga where she effortlessly destroyed numerous clones from him showing how easy it is to counter his surprise attacks. Also I'd like to see the example of Naruto surprising her.
Where are you getting 4x from?
What's your point here? I never said Rasengans weren't strong? We're on Naruto swatting Rokuro's danmaku away with them.
So they're relative while Rokuro's in his flame berge (Rokuro would 8.586 Teratons, Naruto's rasengans would be 16 Teratons). And I don't really think 4x is comparable to Rokuro being able to utilize his spiritual power to tank an attack dozens of times stronger than him. Rokuro was City level, used all his spiritual power and tanked Hijirimaru who is Large Mountain level. Rokuro now who has more spiritual power and has higher stamina than Naruto, can use his spiritual power to tank any rasengan thrown at him. And cool Naruto can spam, Rokuro can spam too and will do so seeing Naruto spam lol.
Stop trying to shift your burden onto me it's getting a bit annoying.
Great that's a concession. Now prove that claim.
No? Naruto was purposely stalling Kaguya and even outsmarted her there. He could move his TSO to a clone and lose himself in the swarm of other clones without Kaguya noticing it despite her sensory abilities, which led to Kaguya incorrectly chasing the wrong Naruto the entire time.
Naruto pretended to be stuck under her ice making Kaguya carelessly approach him at close range and getting blasted through the mountain.
Naruto has a 2x AP advantage and rasengan barrage as well as other rasengan variations are accepted to boost his AP by "more than 2x" on his profile.
This literally shows just how wide the chidoris contact point is. And the other scans don't support anything about it having high piercing power. If anything guy here is describing how the chidori focuses a "massive amount of chakra" when describing its power.
You can stab someone with your fist. Using an attack for stabbing doesn't mean it has "piercing damage" in the way a sword or a spear would.
Bro you literally denied the chidori being a one shot AP amp which was my original main basis for rasengan being a one shot AP amp. So while you didn't deny that "rasengans are strong" you denied just how strong they are which is what I'm explaining here.
Well for one I wouldn't exactly consider an almost 2x gap as relative, especially given how Narutos rasengan variations are "more than 2x stronger".
Great so he can tank 1 really strong attack. What will he do about the 30 other ones coming his way?
Does he? Naruto has comparable chakra to Kurama and with Kurama he could easily fuel around 40,000 Shinobi with 3x Kakashis chakra after a day of fighting without visible signs of fatigue. And even if he runs out of it he can use sage mode to regenerate stamina until his kcm1 recharges.
Rokuro can read minds, he's been able to read the minds of thousands and pinpoint their locations and help them. What more proof do you need than him already showing that?
What?
Outsmarting Kaguya isn't something impressive and her intelligence section shows as much. And chasing the wrong Naruto isn't surprising her?
Yea gets countered by reading minds.
Alright believe what you want, not gonna keep debating something clearly pointed out.
No he can keep tanking really strong attacks because he can amp his durability far higher than what Naruto can output.
Read the stamina section lmao. There's nothing vague about it, he scales to the Great Yang which fought a war for a year.
Great, you proved that he can do different things than what you're claiming he can do.
What do you not understand? I'm asking you to prove your claim that's all.
Her intelligence section gives her the same rating as Rokuro.
It is.
Great. Except he'd have to find a counter to like 50 strategies like that at once since Naruto can spam dozens of clones.
I'm not "believing what I want" I'm believing what's shown on screen.
Not according to his profile he can't.
Fighting a war for a year is not really quantifiable on its own. Fighting tier 8 fodders for a year doesn't mean you can fight tier 6 characters for that long.
I actually did in my first reply after you mentioned it. His aura being "dangerous" doesn't save him from getting repeatedly hit by 4x his AP.
I actually kidna wonder what reasons above given we've reached a point where the old main reasons were debunked (Rokuro manipulating chakra or Naruto being unable to fight him mid air) and no new reasons for him winning were really given.
My god, Naruto has never pulled off some complex 50 strat genius play with his clones that wasn't just him attacking from a different angle or tricking someone with another clone. It's not gonna overwhelm Rokuro.
You definitely wanna be mr debater.
His profile says he's far higher in flamberge and there's the Hijirimaru context which I gave in this thread. Also read the Exorcists section you can see there he can amp his dura with more spiritual power.
Here's the context.
But the attacks get destroyed spatially.
