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Yeah I moreso suggested that just in case that's easier for everyone, I'm fine with staying on here
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Room of Swords Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dalesean027
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I'm good right here, I don't like talking on discord so it offers no real benefit to me in this case
In regards to the cosmology I currently think it caps at 2-B if not Low 2-C and even that is up for contention
As of RN I do not believe Low 1-C to be valid even though we have very explicate statements
In regards to the cosmology I currently think it caps at 2-B if not Low 2-C and even that is up for contention
As of RN I do not believe Low 1-C to be valid even though we have very explicate statements
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- #163
getting scans ready to post here for sandboxing
ah okay great to hear and I'd like to hear your contentions if that's okay
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Other then that one very explicit statement in Chapter 133 everything were told after is that they have the ability to Destroy the Black Box (A low 2-C structure), Destroy the Parallel Universe (A Low 2-C to 2-B Structure depending on if you believe each alternate timeline counts) and Don himself has many Universal AP statements. However this same Don who up to my point in reading was an anomaly in the main universe, is far superior to this supposedly Low 1-C Gyrus.
Yes this would make him Low 1-C by default but the thing is up to this point Higher dimensions aren't explored or even really mentioned at all. And while we do have multiple statements of both Spatio and Temporal superiority that isn't necessarily means for Low 1-C, we have Low 2-C characters with these exact same statements on the wiki. Also we know verbatim that both Don and Gyrus are not superior to Time as shown by there inability to travel to the future or past without the aid of portals, or without merging the past and future together. So we have that statement from 133 straight up refuted. All this seems to suggest either exaggeration from Masio or existence in the 4th dimension (Possibly meaning the Black Box) which they would currently scale to.
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- #165
I'll say there is definitely higher dimensions at play here but that's season 3 stuff mostly towards the end of the series. Gyrus using shadows is outright stated to be above 3 dimensional influence and Shadows can only be interacted with by those who surpass Spatio temporal barriers with the boss swords being able to hurt them specifically because they are a meld of Don's and Gyrus's own abilities which Masiosare himself says the combination of their abilities is Godlike and is what's needed to destroy the RoS. We also know for certain the Room of Swords encompasses eternity so even folding time in on itself they way they did would be literally all time which is only low 2-C granted but we do also know the other timelines do infact still exist considering Nephthys was able to guide all of our main cast members to key points in the the different timelines where it would make a difference with it even outright being stated killing yourself just transfers you into another timeline with your cognition intact with it just happening instantly but since we see they can traveled to they certainly still exist so 2-B bare minimum and considering the whole eternity thing it of it I'd say 2-A if were being honest.
Also given this graph outside of the standard RoS we're discussing if it really is 2-A which I see why not then the "Reality" that exist above and outside of the RoS is for sure on a higher spatial plane bare minimum that said the exist even exist outside of this fake reality and the Abyss is what the shadows and more spoiler stuff are and that exist completely outside of all of that and why Shadows have HDE to begin with as per what Masiosare said before.
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- #166
also this further supports the eternity aspect of it all
and as I said before as we can see this other timelines clearly still exist since they are literally able to be traveled to by the cast under Nephthys guidance and can be viewed and travelled from the black box as well I'd say 2-A is more likely than not warranted since we now the room of swords encompasses actual eternity
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Once again everything except maybe your season 3 spoilers that you've shown can be explained with the 4th Dimension.
The part where it mentions superior to time is also in reference to Gyrus's Black Box which is capable of time travel so that's where the Superiority to time is coming from, not necessarily them being superior to it (Though this wouldn't affect there AP). Basically we have Don (Space) and Gyrus (Time with the use of Black Box), together you technically have Time and Space superiority even if the text supports differently. Outright what were shown is them being NOT superior to time in any way.
As for the 2-A stuff I know it sucks but we need explicate infinite statements for that, Sonic deals with the same thing but still maintains 2-B.
2-B is the highest we're getting.
That brings me to my next question do you believe them destroying the ROS dimension encompasses all the timelines?
Because it's never explicitly said up to this point that they do
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- #168
rip I don't remember then I'd have to read through that final portion of season 2 and season 3 to see if there's statements for infinite timelines being said flat out
I'd say so I suppose they say it'd literally "be as if the room of swords never existed" period so i'd say they are retroactively doing so by destroying the RoS, though correct me if that logic is wrong
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- #169
also I have no idea how to make sandboxes so that we can edit stuff together 
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It's over here:also I have no idea how to make sandboxes so that we can edit stuff together
Editing Rules
The VS Battles Wiki presently consists of 34,513 pages, most of them listing the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. However, there is a tremendous amount of work involved in maintaining the accuracy of statistics and upholding a high quality for the profiles. In...
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I mean narratively it makes since and it's what were led to believe but we still don't have outright confirmation
The RoS is never stated to contain all these Timelines and the room itself is a structure built by Gyrus at the beginning of each loop.
Hell, based on the ending of Season 2 destroying the RoS might not even be a universal feat
It just contains portals to other dimensions (Debatable it could just be planets affected by the unraveling instead of outright timelines) that reside in the RoS Dimension
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ThanksIt's over here:
Editing Rules
The VS Battles Wiki presently consists of 34,513 pages, most of them listing the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. However, there is a tremendous amount of work involved in maintaining the accuracy of statistics and upholding a high quality for the profiles. In...
I'll respond in a bit as I for sure have some disagreements big disagreements and ofc I'll explain them with the context of the first 2 seasons only but for sure there's some stuff that needs to be cleared up
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So to start while Gyrus is building the Room of Swords isn't building THE Room of Swords at the beginning of each loop he's already inside of the Room of Swords as made evident by the world timer, boss sword that already exist, and the sped up effects of healing items within the RoS, alls to say they are already inside the room of swords but what Gyrus is building is the structure and giant machine present inside of the realm you get access to when you complete a room in the Room of Swords which technically is the Room of Swords but its not the overall ACTUAL Room of Swords since they're literally still inside of it locked in its cycle which encompasses more stuff that I can't unfortunately speak on just yet.
That's why when Don dies he spawns inside the section they're initially at at the beginning of a recursion but its where Gyrus built the safehouse to keep Don. Also from this point on its best to say refer to the complete loop as a recursion and actually loops as what happens when someone kills themselves with a boss sword while in a realm and those two things are completely different within a single recursion say the current one Gyrus has travelled between 72 timelines within the first eye realm alone as we know you move to different timelines when you die in the RoS. so each recursion houses every timeline possible in the RoS a place which we know time stretches for an literal eternity.
Basically even for when they say Don "escaped" the Room of Swords its not a true escape Reality "outside" of the Room of Swords is actually built into its structure and actually encompasses the lower levels of itself which is the portion we've come to know with the realms and such and the structure of the Room of Swords that Gyrus built not to confused with something we see later either you'll see
if I had to break it down as basically as possible each realm houses its own timelines which stretch for an eternity as time has no end in the room of swords
a recursion is basically (really watering this down to the bare minimum) is the overall timeline that encompasses those in the cycle of this bottom level of the Room of Swords so the recursion number increases when everything loops not just a realm so as said already the Room of Swords literally already exist and always has Gyrus isn't necessarily building it as a whole since there exist higher planes with the portion we see all throughout seasons 1 and 2 being the lowest level of it.
Nephthys herself can see into other timelines (Recursions) and find her way to the best future where Gyrus doesn't become Masiosare as she verbatim says even "It's like I'm out of time" as she views a frayed string that represents multiple futures where the timeline splinters into multiple new ones not previously occuring in the loop.
that's the best way I can currently explain this without getting into season 3 and further extrapolating on stuff I cant say here that adds more layers
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- #174
actually even thinking about this its after its verbatim stated all of time flows through Gyrus this includes the different futures Nephthys see that we see Masiosare take Gyrus's body after it was finally made complete and then he immediately merges the past, present, and future to a singular space so that alone shows that Gyrus in his completed state does in fact have control over time
Masiosare also severs the fate chain from Gyrus to even do this to begin with which its said requires "a force outside of time and space" so I'd say there is actually more evidence for them being above space time than not especially considering the shadows are not only apart of the abyss (more on this later) but they're also the dormant state of masiosare who again qualifies for HDE and are outright outside of space and time
one thing you must consider is that up to this point both Don and Masiosare (and Gyrus) are heavily nerfed from their previous selves and spent all this time just regaining the powers they already had previously Don states this numerous times and Masiosare actually says he's been building power for this fight so he should be stronger actually when he's free
I'd like to preface that this level of control over space time is only applicable to Masiosare when he awakened in Gyrus's body as Gyrus literally had no clue that power even existed and thought he'd just be stranded in the past
Edit: I also asked Agnaa and they said that the compression of all of time to one spot in space alone is already a low 2-C feat
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okay serious last post of the night but my last point for bare minimum lol 3-A stuff but this involves the ONLY attack potency of the bomb redacted threw at Don (which Don survived ofc) since we're explicitly told how powerful it actually was so this tells you nothing more than the potency of the bomb I can promise you that but if you'd rather wait to find out then by all means go for it
that said how did you guys enjoy season 2 and what were your thoughts on it all?
the Dark Matter bomb REDACTED threw at Don literally contained the potency of the big bang or the "Birth of the universe" which was contained by the lowest level of the RoS so once again another 3-A feat
that said how did you guys enjoy season 2 and what were your thoughts on it all?
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Dalesean027/sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
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The last 10-15 chapters: Normal day in Ohio.
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Masiosare might have Time Travel/Dimensional Travel. According to what I understood, Masiosare traveled to each universe/period in which Tori (Middle Ages), Kodya, and Nephthys (Ancient Egypt) among others existed, to connect them to RS.
Also, RS could be considered as a multiversal link that connects each Realm (If we take them as universes), and while RS (Don) and the cycle (Masiosare) exist, time will not advance until one of the 2 falls. Another way of interpreting it would be based on the fact that Masiosare connected each universe from which Tori, Kody, and Nephthys came, along with the Realms to RS to ensure that when RS falls there is nothing left.
Sorry if something was not understood.
Also, RS could be considered as a multiversal link that connects each Realm (If we take them as universes), and while RS (Don) and the cycle (Masiosare) exist, time will not advance until one of the 2 falls. Another way of interpreting it would be based on the fact that Masiosare connected each universe from which Tori, Kody, and Nephthys came, along with the Realms to RS to ensure that when RS falls there is nothing left.
Sorry if something was not understood.
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Nah you're pretty mich spot pn but what he connected was literal reality to the Room of Swords so after the full room of swords encompasses reality in its make up for those who complete as another layer of its system
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- #181
Gonna get more scans today but I'll also reread more into season 3
Also congrats peeps yall are already about 60% done with the series
Also congrats peeps yall are already about 60% done with the series
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Was it revealed that he was the one who did that?
Was it revealed that he was the one who took them form the main universe to the room of swords?
I can't remember
I'm not gonna lie but I barely understand any of thatSo to start while Gyrus is building the Room of Swords isn't building THE Room of Swords at the beginning of each loop he's already inside of the Room of Swords as made evident by the world timer, boss sword that already exist, and the sped up effects of healing items within the RoS, alls to say they are already inside the room of swords but what Gyrus is building is the structure and giant machine present inside of the realm you get access to when you complete a room in the Room of Swords which technically is the Room of Swords but its not the overall ACTUAL Room of Swords since they're literally still inside of it locked in its cycle which encompasses more stuff that I can't unfortunately speak on just yet.
That's why when Don dies he spawns inside the section they're initially at at the beginning of a recursion but its where Gyrus built the safehouse to keep Don. Also from this point on its best to say refer to the complete loop as a recursion and actually loops as what happens when someone kills themselves with a boss sword while in a realm and those two things are completely different within a single recursion say the current one Gyrus has travelled between 72 timelines within the first eye realm alone as we know you move to different timelines when you die in the RoS. so each recursion houses every timeline possible in the RoS a place which we know time stretches for an literal eternity.
Basically even for when they say Don "escaped" the Room of Swords its not a true escape Reality "outside" of the Room of Swords is actually built into its structure and actually encompasses the lower levels of itself which is the portion we've come to know with the realms and such and the structure of the Room of Swords that Gyrus built not to confused with something we see later either you'll see
if I had to break it down as basically as possible each realm houses its own timelines which stretch for an eternity as time has no end in the room of swords
a recursion is basically (really watering this down to the bare minimum) is the overall timeline that encompasses those in the cycle of this bottom level of the Room of Swords so the recursion number increases when everything loops not just a realm so as said already the Room of Swords literally already exist and always has Gyrus isn't necessarily building it as a whole since there exist higher planes with the portion we see all throughout seasons 1 and 2 being the lowest level of it.
Nephthys herself can see into other timelines (Recursions) and find her way to the best future where Gyrus doesn't become Masiosare as she verbatim says even "It's like I'm out of time" as she views a frayed string that represents multiple futures where the timeline splinters into multiple new ones not previously occuring in the loop.
that's the best way I can currently explain this without getting into season 3 and further extrapolating on stuff I cant say here that adds more layers
What I could take away from that is there's the Room of Swords that Gyrus built and then there's the Room of Swords Dimension itself which was always there
Except this is only through the use of the Black Box. It's stated that the only way Masio went back in time was through the use of the Black Box.
Masio took over Neph's body IN ORDER to see all the possible future's, he doesn't know them himself.
It seems like he can only look into the past via the Black Box
We even see him get worried that he might accidently delete himself from the timeline when he confronts Don and he also states that he took great care in crafting the timeline.
This suggests to me that after fighting Don for a long time Gyrus discovered how to use the Black Box to go back in time in order to interact with his past self's in order to create a timeline in which he can defeat Don and destroy the Room of Swords.
It's also known that he can't go back in time unless he meets a past version of himself IN the Black Box for him to connect his fate cord to in order to take control of his body in that point in time
This somehow caused the compression of Space and time to one-point which I really have no answer to other than the Black Box was once again probably responsible.
So Masio is not above Time as we have seen multiple instances of that not being the case, he does however have the ability to travel through it in a limited fashion and interact with the past in order to create his perfect timeline
This is also why I believe them both to be Low 2-C instead of 2-B as they are affected by split timelines and there is no solid evidence (Up to this point) that every other timeline is destroyed as well. I believe the 2-B only applies to the cosmology as a whole as even the main timeline was I believe said to be affected by these timelines.
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Yes its stated a couple of times to be the case
Yes
That was before Gyrus's body was completed though again remember for this entire time even the previous Gyrus had been nerfed l, Masiosare has even been nerfed however once Masiosare got the finally successfully made things so that he'd have always existed and his future wasn't jeopardized and Gyrus's body was finally complete once again after all that time it enabled Masiosare to take his body by severing his fate chain which can once again only be done by someone who is outside of time and space and remember this happens right when Gyrus in his new completed state was stated to have all of space and time flow through himself including those of other timelines.
And the compression isn't a side effect either Nephthys and Don both directly state Masiosare is the one who actively and purposely compressed all of time to one point in space so that he can finish everything there
I should have the scans for all of this as well but again bare minimum I'd say low 2-C is warranted from the time compression feat and the Dark Matter Bomb feat both being extremely casual.
Edit: Typed out some more but it got deleted but I agree with the non 2-B scaling since Masiosare for sure needed Nephthys to even begin to know of the other timelines and only manipulated things previously to restore the timeline where he'd be inevitably created so he can actually act and not threaten his existence so yeah low 2-C at most for him
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Alright that makes it way easier to make sense of thenYes its stated a couple of times to be the case
Yes
That was before Gyrus's body was completed though again remember for this entire time even the previous Gyrus had been nerfed l, Masiosare has even been nerfed however once Masiosare got the finally successfully made things so that he'd have always existed and his future wasn't jeopardized and Gyrus's body was finally complete once again after all that time it enabled Masiosare to take his body by severing his fate chain which can once again only be done by someone who is outside of time and space and remember this happens right when Gyrus in his new completed state was stated to have all of space and time flow through himself including those of other timelines.
And the compression isn't a side effect either Nephthys and Don both directly state Masiosare is the one who actively and purposely compressed all of time to one point in space so that he can finish everything there
Yeah it looks like were stuck in Low 2-C unless we can prove each portal in the room of swords is a universe
On the bright side it's a very consistent Low 2-C with many statements to back it up
We can discuss the cosmology again when I finish but let's move onto another point of contention
Where the regular character's scale
Specifically Silvia and Ragan
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- #185
They do have starry skys bare minimum
Yeah this is where stuff gets nutty because both Sylvia and Ragan were able to push Don well mostly Sylvia I don't recall Ragan doing any meaningful damage?
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Well Don in his battle with Ragan had already absorbed a part of his power, so we could say that I got some resistance.
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This is complemented by the fact that the Boss Swords contain part of Don's power.
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Can be explained as them being planets in said alternate universeThey do have starry skys bare minimum
Ragan manage to stun and injure Don in a meaningful way and Sylvia straight up kicked his ass
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Yeah but applies to anyone who has used a boss sword then since it does contain Don's powers and Gyrus's power
Riiip
Yeah a big step up from Sylvia's at most 8-B with her breaking point in season 1
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That's the thing, Sylvia doesn't really get any stronger from Season 1 to End of Season 2
So it creates a HUGE circular scaling chain
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- #191
Yeah no one really does aside from Gyrus and that's only with his awakening basically close to the finale
So yeah i'm kinda at a loss since Don and Masiosare negative diff everyone
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- #192
Should Masiosare be a key on Gyrus's profile or an entirely seperate one
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It should be a different profile as it can be considered a different entity
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- #194
Okay then he should have two keys, his dormant state/ weakened should be Town level since they're literally the shadows which past Gyrus used to perform the Town level feat anyways
His completed state should be low 2-C ofc
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That seems fine to me
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Except Two and one scales from that
Then robo boy scales to two cause he beat someone who One-shot shadow two
Then both Kodya and Gyrus and Base Silvia somewhat scale to it
See what I mean?
It should be something like this
Base Gyrus/ Shadow Gyrus(When he was possesed by Shadow's)/ Black Box Completion Gyrus
Masiosare should be something like this
Incomplete/ Merged
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- #197
Yeah I have no idea what to do there because the low 2-C and 3-A is consistent for Don and Masiosare. Gyrus is bare minimum town level by this point when he's completed.
We do know Sylvia's breaking point varies though like its confirmed to do so, so maybe we can cut them off from that one instance?
I'm fine with that for Masiosare and I'm assuming those are just keys for Gyrus's season 2 stuff?
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My ideas are deem them outlier's or a "possibly" rating
It utterly ***** up the scaling chain so we need to get it sorted
Ragan would also get Low 2-C if we go the possibly route
I'd prefer just deeming them outlier's
Yes this is for season 2 Gyrus
I'd like to hear your opinion on whether Post-Black Box Gyrus gets all of Black Box Gyrus's powers and abilities
If there showcased in season 3 let me know so we can avoid it
I also have several new abilities to add to Gyrus now that we have the whole picture
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- #199
I'd say so yeah he should have all of his abilities and power now and I'll also sandbox the profile as well
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This is fine by me btw
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