Ryuko Matoi vs Erga Kenesis Di Raskreia

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Both at their best

Round1:In character,speed equal,no mind control for erga

Round 2:No restrictictions

Ryuko:https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Matoi_Ryūko

Erga:https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Erga_Kenesis_Di_Raskreia

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

1- ryuko due to better stats

2- idk, idk if the mind control will work on ryuko, i mean ryuko resisted mind control many times

i still think ryuko wins here too

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

1. Draw, due to the hax on erga part and the DC and Durabilty on Ryuko's part

2. Ryuko due to regen, higher Ap, durabilty

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

How good is ryuko`s regen?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

How good is ryuko`s regen?

Mid level. Apparently that's somehow scaled from her mothers regen.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Mid level. Apparently that's somehow scaled from her mothers regen.

Actually its from Ryuko being bisected and cut to pieces in the fight with Ragyo.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Mid level. Apparently that's somehow scaled from her mothers regen.

Actually its from Ryuko being bisected and cut to pieces in the fight with Ragyo.
Oh, that makes more sense.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alright so the only round i see ryuko having a chance is the first round.She cant win the 2nd round because while her regen is good erga has blood field hax which erases all trace of existence not to mention mind control,mind reading,memory erasal and she is posssibly faster.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Alright so the only round i see ryuko having a chance is the first round.She cant win the 2nd round because while her regen is good erga has blood field hax which erases all trace of existence not to mention mind control,mind reading,memory erasal and she is posssibly faster.

well ryuko has resisted mind control in the past, once when her brain was getting literally tied up with life fibres

the second time when her mind was completely altered by ragyo, but she still managed to snap out of it and tore off junketsu- which was like tearing off her own skin

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alright so the only round i see ryuko having a chance is the first round.She cant win the 2nd round because while her regen is good erga has blood field hax which erases all trace of existence not to mention mind control,mind reading,memory erasal and she is posssibly faster.

well ryuko has resisted mind control in the past, once when her brain was getting literally tied up with life fibres
the second time when her mind was completely altered by ragyo, but she still managed to snap out of it and tore off junketsu- which was like tearing off her own skin

How good was that mind control?Cause the nobles in noblesse basically specialize in that:they can control entire cities of people,read minds forcibly, manipulate memories,clairvoyance, empathy, hypnosis, induce comas, create illusions etc.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

the mind control was very potent like it literally stiched her brain in first scenario


in the second one, all of her memories were overwritten, all of her personalities was flipped and she was essentilly not ryuko at that pointt


also as for mass mind control- ragyo (or was it nui) let out life fibres that essentially mind controlled an entire stadium of people (and they were inhabitants of an entire city)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

the mind control was very potent like it literally stiched her brain in first scenario

in the second one, all of her memories were overwritten, all of her personalities was flipped and she was essentilly not ryuko at that pointt


also as for mass mind control- ragyo (or was it nui) let out life fibres that essentially mind controlled an entire stadium of people (and they were inhabitants of an entire city)

Hmm she still will probably be mind controlled that level of mind control is basically what every noble can do and erga as the lord as better mind control than all nobles well except for raizel(raizel mind controlled like 7 clan leaders basically the best of the nobles easily erga definetly not on that level).But if mind control doesnt work she could use blood field i will just like a description of it here."The absolute power exclusive to those who govern blood. She uses a red energy akin to blood around her and transforms it into a powerful typhoon that surrounds her enemy and completely erases all traces of their existence".

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

the mind control was very potent like it literally stiched her brain in first scenario

in the second one, all of her memories were overwritten, all of her personalities was flipped and she was essentilly not ryuko at that pointt


also as for mass mind control- ragyo (or was it nui) let out life fibres that essentially mind controlled an entire stadium of people (and they were inhabitants of an entire city)

Hmm she still will probably be mind controlled that level of mind control is basically what every noble can do and erga as the lord as better mind control than all nobles well except for raizel(raizel mind controlled like 7 clan leaders basically the best of the nobles easily erga definetly not on that level).But if mind control doesnt work she could use blood field i will just like a description of it here."The absolute power exclusive to those who govern blood. She uses a red energy akin to blood around her and transforms it into a powerful typhoon that surrounds her enemy and completely erases all traces of their existence".

so its essentially blood control? iirc ryuko can just make more blood (she lost a lot of it when she ripped off junketsu)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

the mind control was very potent like it literally stiched her brain in first scenario

in the second one, all of her memories were overwritten, all of her personalities was flipped and she was essentilly not ryuko at that pointt


also as for mass mind control- ragyo (or was it nui) let out life fibres that essentially mind controlled an entire stadium of people (and they were inhabitants of an entire city)

Hmm she still will probably be mind controlled that level of mind control is basically what every noble can do and erga as the lord as better mind control than all nobles well except for raizel(raizel mind controlled like 7 clan leaders basically the best of the nobles easily erga definetly not on that level).But if mind control doesnt work she could use blood field i will just like a description of it here."The absolute power exclusive to those who govern blood. She uses a red energy akin to blood around her and transforms it into a powerful typhoon that surrounds her enemy and completely erases all traces of their existence".

so its essentially blood control? iirc ryuko can just make more blood (she lost a lot of it when she ripped off junketsu)

No no she has control over blood but blood field isnt blood control well blood field gives the user the ability to exert their power on any creature with blood but blood field doesnt control blood when its erasing people from existence its just hax that erases people from existence can post scans if you like.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm just gonna go with Ryuko both rounds via higher DC for the time being.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alright so for this i will use raizel to demonstrate what blood field can do because erga has only been in one fight the entire series and that was raizel and raizel is way above her level and has greater control over blood.Note this was all a sealed raizel erga forced raizel to release his seal so she can do all these feats as well.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump

 

[Alakabamm]

Uhhh, I have read the entire Noblesse manwha, why are you exactly hyping the Blood Field above an incredibly destructive attack that is potent on blood-based beings? I don't see it as a "win card" of destructive capacity on, say, the level of a black hole unless Raizel can actually kill Muzaka if he is caught in it at full strength. In other words, if the prerequisite to destruction is that the caster is physically stronger than the casted upon, it's really just a destructive attack regardless of hype.

The difference in D-C here really is overwhelming. Even Raizel has not shown the strength Ryuko did against Ragoi nor has really any character in Noblesse shown even similar regenerative feats. If Blood Field is not an OHKO (which it shouldn't be, per above), then the only way Raskreia can win is via mind control and Ryuko does have shown resistance to that. Can you (Celestial Pegasus) or anyone else post scans that show the level of Mind Control you are claiming? I personally don't remember MInd Control ever being a serious thing except on low tiers, which seems to imply that it is also strength-based.

So I vote Ryuko until I see significant Mind Control feats.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I'd say Ryuko takes round one, since in character Erga wouldn't use blood field straight away. Round two goes to Erga due to likely better speed and blood field hax

 

[A6colute]

Ryuko in both rounds.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Uhhh, I have read the entire Noblesse manwha, why are you exactly hyping the Blood Field above an incredibly destructive attack that is potent on blood-based beings? I don't see it as a "win card" of destructive capacity on, say, the level of a black hole unless Raizel can actually kill Muzaka if he is caught in it at full strength. In other words, if the prerequisite to destruction is that the caster is physically stronger than the casted upon, it's really just a destructive attack regardless of hype.
The difference in D-C here really is overwhelming. Even Raizel has not shown the strength Ryuko did against Ragoi nor has really any character in Noblesse shown even similar regenerative feats. If Blood Field is not an OHKO (which it shouldn't be, per above), then the only way Raskreia can win is via mind control and Ryuko does have shown resistance to that. Can you (Celestial Pegasus) or anyone else post scans that show the level of Mind Control you are claiming? I personally don't remember MInd Control ever being a serious thing except on low tiers, which seems to imply that it is also strength-based.

So I vote Ryuko until I see significant Mind Control feats.

As i posted above in the scan blood field is formidable not because of its destructive capability but because inside a blood field the users power is exerted upon every creature with blood.Blood field has worked on every opponent raizel has fought except muzaka because muzaka has equal power and speed.Well rai is more powerful in terms of strength but muzaka has slightly more speed because thats what werewolves are known for their speed and regenerative abilities.So what i am saying is blood field isnt an instant win card like any other hax it can be defeated by having greater hax or being fast enough to evade it which muzaka is.Now blood fields can be destroyed if the person has enough power this has been shown when muzaka destroyed it by using his voice in otherwords he never let the blood field touch him but the thing is ryuko has no knowledge on what blood field can do.If you have knowledge on what it can do you can destroy it and if your fast enough evade it but ryuko has no knowledge here.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Then there is also the fact that raizel didnt exactly want to kill muzaka because muzaka was his friend,he only wanted to stop him.As for the mind control i will look for feats.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

umm so enough power can destroy blood field?

ryuko is like continent+ acording to this wiki

i think thats farely above large country level

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

umm so enough power can destroy blood field?
ryuko is like continent+ acording to this wiki

i think thats farely above large country level

Yes enough force can destroy it but that would only do you any good if you are fast enough to react to blood field before it erases you or have enough power to destroy it.Ryuko has way more than enough to destroy it hmm guess it comes down to who is faster here.How fast is ryuko i know she is massively hypersonic+ just as erga but thats a wide range.

 

[Alakabamm]

What I am saying is that there is no evidence that it is really "hax," unless you mean "hax" in the sense that it is a destructive move potent against blood-based opponents. To prove that it is hax, you really need to show it working from a lower tier on a higher tier, especially considering that this battle is putting someone at country level against a continent level opponent. As far as my knowledge goes, it has just been used to stomp beings that Rai had a huge advantage over anyways.

You can further see this from the fact that he didn't even manage to finish off Roctis with a blood field, instead relying on a Blood Pheonix to do the job. I definitely think Blood Pheonix > Blood Field in destructive capability and this implies Blood Field is not absolutely desructive.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

umm so enough power can destroy blood field?
ryuko is like continent+ acording to this wiki

i think thats farely above large country level

Yes enough force can destroy it but that would only do you any good if you are fast enough to react to blood field before it erases you or have enough power to destroy it.Ryuko has way more than enough to destroy it hmm guess it comes down to who is faster here.How fast is ryuko i know she is massively hypersonic+ just as erga but thats a wide range.

ryuko is mach 1370

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What I am saying is that there is no evidence that it is really "hax," unless you mean "hax" in the sense that it is a destructive move potent against blood-based opponents. To prove that it is hax, you really need to show it working from a lower tier on a higher tier, especially considering that this battle is putting someone at country level against a continent level opponent. As far as my knowledge goes, it has just been used to stomp beings that Rai had a huge advantage over anyways.

You can further see this from the fact that he didn't even manage to finish off Roctis with a blood field, instead relying on a Blood Pheonix to do the job. I definitely think Blood Pheonix > Blood Field in destructive capability and this implies Blood Field is not absolutely desructive.

Except where rai says he is gonna erase people from existence and he proceeds to do that multiple times and there is as he says nothing left of them now for blood phoenix you cannot tell me that is not a hax move its just a more hax version of blood fielde.



blood phoenix



soul departing


Blood phoenix


A purely destructive attack doesnt make someone break into blood crystals

 

[Alakabamm]

"Hax," as I like to see it, is an abiility which goes beyond your "level" or "physical ability" and manages to deal damage regardless of match-up (unless against some omnipotent, ability canceler, etc.). As far as I have seen, Rai has never really gone above his level with that attack. Characters can make all the statements they want about their powers, but we have no way of assessing it without a power matchup. The fact that Raizel had to "power-up" his attack to Blood Pheonix to take out a country level character implies that Blood Field cannot erase strong enough characters. It is not really, in my definition, "hax". As such, its utility during a battle against a high regenerator like Ryuko with continent level durability is extremely dubious.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

umm so enough power can destroy blood field?
ryuko is like continent+ acording to this wiki

i think thats farely above large country level

Yes enough force can destroy it but that would only do you any good if you are fast enough to react to blood field before it erases you or have enough power to destroy it.Ryuko has way more than enough to destroy it hmm guess it comes down to who is faster here.How fast is ryuko i know she is massively hypersonic+ just as erga but thats a wide range.

ryuko is mach 1370

Erga is faster she should be able to keep up with a untransformed muzaka who basically went from the werewolve country to lukedonia it was calc in this thread https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/185697 He went from the werewolve country to lukedonia almost instantly The werwolve country was determined to be somewhere in south america as both countries had night and day the same time they had to be close lukedonia is the bermuda triangle and the werewolve country is somewhere in south america because muzaka said he had never been to north america.And with an extreme low ball these were the results 1 second: 4320.7,2 seconds: 2160.35,3 seconds: 1440.23.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

"Hax," as I like to see it, is an abiility which goes beyond your "level" or "physical ability" and manages to deal damage regardless of match-up (unless against some omnipotent, ability canceler, etc.). As far as I have seen, Rai has never really gone above his level with that attack. Characters can make all the statements they want about their powers, but we have no way of assessing it without a power matchup. The fact that Raizel had to "power-up" his attack to Blood Pheonix to take out a country level character implies that Blood Field cannot erase strong enough characters. It is not really, in my definition, "hax". As such, its utility during a battle against a high regenerator like Ryuko with continent level durability is extremely dubious.

Clearly raizel will never use it on someone above his level because no one in noblesse is above his level the only ones who are comparable to raizel are muzaka and maybe the previous lord with a complete ragnarok.Now as for raizel powering up against country level characters its because as i said blood field can be evaded and destroyed and also you need to realize that fights last as long as raizel wants.What do i mean by that?raizel governs blood that has been stated multiple times and he has shown that when he made igness blood vessels burts by saying she doesnt have the right to look at him so he can clearly make blood vessels burts so why doesnt he just end fights by say making someones heart burst?and he also is far above almost everyone in noblesse so he can one shot everyone if he wanted so why doesnt he? because he is the noblesse and the ones he was fighting were his friends and are clan leaders so he is showing them a level of respect by using his "full power".He has the capability to end all his fights quickly but he doesnt because he is showing them respect and he is a kind guy he doesnt want people to suffer so instead of say making peoples organs burst he prefers to give them a quick and painless death by erasing them from existence.

 

[Non-Bias]

raizel governs blood that has been stated multiple times and he has shown that when he made igness blood vessels burts by saying she doesnt have the right to look at him so he can clearly make blood vessels burts so why doesnt he just end fights by say making someones heart burst?

^ That seems like a NFL with the way you're putting it. You're pretty much saying that Raizel can beat anyone who doesn't have some level of organ Regenerationn.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

raizel governs blood that has been stated multiple times and he has shown that when he made igness blood vessels burts by saying she doesnt have the right to look at him so he can clearly make blood vessels burts so why doesnt he just end fights by say making someones heart burst?
^ That seems like a NFL with the way you're putting it. You're pretty much saying that Raizel can beat anyone who doesn't have some level of organ Regenerationn.

No your missing the point if he made someones blood vessels burts by simply saying they dont have the right to look at him he is clearly capable of doing more damage if he seriously tried to kill that person.

 

[Alakabamm]

As I distinctly recall, Raizel was pushed hard against Roctis. He also definitely cannot do anything like "one-shot" Muzaka, who pushed him back basically the entire fight. The only time when Raizel shows significant blood control is over low tiers; yes, Ignes is low tier. He did not show it on Roctis, he did not show it on the previous Clan Leaders and it is a definite implication of Noblesse that he simply cannot. Your assumptions of his power are very unwarranted.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

As I distinctly recall, Raizel was pushed hard against Roctis. He also definitely cannot do anything like "one-shot" Muzaka, who pushed him back basically the entire fight. The only time when Raizel shows significant blood control is over low tiers; yes, Ignes is low tier. He did not show it on Roctis, he did not show it on the previous Clan Leaders and it is a definite implication of Noblesse that he simply cannot. Your assumptions of his power are very unwarranted.

He was being pushed by roctis yes because roctis kept dodging and destroying his blood field so he had to use blood phoenix.Again i am not trying to say raizel is unbeateable however what i am trying to say is there is a reason why even the high tiers are weary of blood field and why when after the clan leaders had just learned that raizel was the noblesse the symbol of absolute power and saw him not try to avoid erga`s blood field and take it head on were surprised he did so because they know blood field is not a purely destructive move.And no he cant one shot muzaka because muzaka was equal power to him and speed and not to mention his Regenerationn.

 

[Alakabamm]

"And no he cant one shot muzaka because muzaka was equal power to him" ---> this means you recognize that Blood Field is not a hax move. As long as that is clear, Blood Field cannot defeat Ryuko.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

"And no he cant one shot muzaka because muzaka was equal power to him" ---> this means you recognize that Blood Field is not a hax move. As long as that is clear, Blood Field cannot defeat Ryuko.

No what i am saying is blood field is hax but as long as you are fast enough and have enough power it can be avoided.Muzaka has the speed and the dc to fight with raizel.What i am saying is if
for instant raizel was say up against a continent buster but that continent buster was only hypersonic raizel would win because that continent buster wouldnt be able to escape blood field.

 

[Alakabamm]

"And no he cant one shot muzaka because muzaka was equal power to him" ---> this means you recognize that Blood Field is not a hax move. As long as that is clear, Blood Field cannot defeat Ryuko.

No what i am saying is blood field is hax but as long as you are fast enough and have enough power it can be avoided.Muzaka has the speed and the dc to fight with raizel.What i am saying is if
for instant raizel was say up against a continent buster but that continent buster was only hypersonic raizel would win because that continent buster wouldnt be able to escape blood field.

Nothing in the source besides some meaningless conjecture by weaker nobles suggests this. His use of higher level techniques also implies this is not true, as I said before. Muzaka busted a blood field; I am sure Ryoko can, regardless of speed tier (which doesn't even matter anyways; Roctis, who is at best Ryoko's speed, avoided all of Raizel's blood fields, who is above Erga).

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

"And no he cant one shot muzaka because muzaka was equal power to him" ---> this means you recognize that Blood Field is not a hax move. As long as that is clear, Blood Field cannot defeat Ryuko.

No what i am saying is blood field is hax but as long as you are fast enough and have enough power it can be avoided.Muzaka has the speed and the dc to fight with raizel.What i am saying is if
for instant raizel was say up against a continent buster but that continent buster was only hypersonic raizel would win because that continent buster wouldnt be able to escape blood field.

Nothing in the source besides some meaningless conjecture by weaker nobles suggests this. His use of higher level techniques also implies this is not true, as I said before. Muzaka busted a blood field; I am sure Ryoko can, regardless of speed tier (which doesn't even matter anyways; Roctis, who is at best Ryoko's speed, avoided all of Raizel's blood fields, who is above Erga).

Weaker nobles?Did you not see the scan i posted where it said that blood field isnt formiddable for its dc but because it exerts its power on every creature with blood.That was said by zarga a former clan leader who knew what raizel is capable of.And again yes blood field can be destroyed but you have to have the power (which ryuko has) and the speed.Roctis could dodge raizels blood field but he couldnt even react to blood phoenix because it was faster.Raizel gets stronger and faster when he uses his blood wings which is why roctis couldnt react.Roctis is at best ryoko`s speed yes but i am not arguing for roctis i am arguing for erga who is far stronger and faster than roctis.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

And now that i think about it roctis might even be faster than ryuko because muzaka had to transform to beat gui and gaitan who are like mid tier.And he performed the speed feat of going from the werewolf country to lukedonia without transforming yet he had to transform to beat gaitan and grui which means they could have beaten him when he wasnt transformed meaning they were faster and stronger.So that means mid tier characters are massively hypersonic+ and erga is far above them.

 

[Alakabamm]

Alright, since this is a bit jumbled, let me summarize the issues:

Speed: Yes, Erga is probably faster than Ryuko at max power. However, Ryuko is very likely faster than Roctis. This is very significant, because Roctis evaded Raizel's blood fields, with Raizel being much faster than Erga. Since this is the case, there is nothing to suggest that Ryoko cannot evade a blood field. However...

Blood Field Potential:...the Blood Field has never been shown to ignore durability. It has always been used by Raizel on "weaker" (yes, weaker, weaker being in relation to Raizel) nobles and even has been busted by a top tier with less attack potential than Ryuko. It is very likely that Ryuko CAN bust Raizel's Blood Field, let alone Erga's. This leads us to the final issue...

Blood Field Busting: You say that a certain level of speed is needed to bust Blood Fields This, quite simply, does not make sense. A certain level of speed is necessary to dodge Blood Fields not bust them. Muzaka has already shown us that Raizel's Blood Field can be busted by at most a small continent level attack, which is above what is necessary for Erga's Blood Field. You do not need to outspeed it in any way.

So basically, where this leaves us is Mind Control. This is the only plausible way that I can see Erga winning and I do not think she is really strong enough with Mind Control to do it.

I'm Ryuko until I see that evidence.