• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Scaling for the Mid Tiers - Maou Gakuin

Status
Not open for further replies.
imZer0Null

imZer0Null

873
661
This CRT was made to improve the scaling for the mid tiers of the verse. This thread had some problems regarding the mid tiers, so please ignore anything related to the mid tiers from that thread. I will try my best to provide better proof in this CRT.

Currently, the mid tiers are scaled to the Anos vs Lay fight, giving them 7-B, since they were able to fight against the dragon soldiers.

**I might've confused a few people. This CRT isn't meant to downgrade Lay. By the end of Volume 10, Lay is considered a top tier and has a 5-A rating, but before Volume 10, it's possible that Lay might not have been 5-A yet. Lay was at least 7-B tho, and there are feats to support that.

Here's my reason as to why I think they at least deserve 7-B.

The fight between Lay and the soldiers are from chapter 311 to chapter 313 of the WN.

"Twenty-odd people who jumped on Lay were all knocked away by the holy sword... Three of them collapsed on the spot and seemed unable to stand up immediately..."
Lay was capable of knocking away 20 soldiers, and injured 3 of them. The main reason he was capable of knocking away those 20 soldiers was because he's faster and more skilled than the soldiers. Lay also says, "It's slow but fast...", further supporting that he's faster than them, since their fast attacks seemed slow to him.

"Lay was still standing in front of them, even though he was bleeding from his whole body, even though he was pierced by the <Geddeoruba>, which destroys even the cities of the limited world..."
Even though the soldiers can't keep up with Lay's speed, they can still harm him. There are many more quotes I can provide that supports this. This quote also states that their attacks can destroy cities. This is also supported in a previous battle in chapter 293, in which their attacks scrape away cities and leave huge holes in mountains.

The fight starts out equal, but Lay slowly gains the upper hand in battle.
Lay later proceeds to defeat the soldiers.

The mid tiers are able to put up a fight against these soldiers, but aren't able to beat them.

Since the soldiers are capable of harming a person with 5-A 7-B durability, as well as having attacks capable of destroying cities, it's safe to say they would at least qualify for 7-B, and could possibly get likely 5-A.
The mid tiers were able to put up a good enough fight against these same soldiers who are capable of destroying cities and harming Lay. That should also make the mid tiers at least qualify for 7-B.

I don't want to change the mid tiers' rating, but just want to provide better evidence as for why they are scaled to 7-B.
 
Last edited:
imZer0Null said:
Since the soldiers are capable of harming a person with 5-A durability, as well as having attacks capable of destroying cities, it's safe to say they would at least qualify for 7-B, and could possibly get likely 5-A.
The mid tiers were able to put up a good enough fight against these same soldiers who are capable of destroying cities and harming Lay. That should also make the mid tiers at least qualify for 7-B.

I don't want to change the mid tiers' rating, but just want to provide better evidence as for why they are scaled to 7-B.
Click to expand...
Currently, Lay is considered 5-A. He can be scaled to Shin Reglia, who can undoubtedly be scaled to a suppressed Anos. 5-A Lay has all feats from Volume 1-10 of the series.

This battle took place in Volume 7. That being the case, it's possible that Lay might not have been 5-A yet. Lay was at least 7-B tho, and there are feats to support that. If Lay isn't considered a 5-A during Volume 7, then that means the soldiers would only get a 7-B rating. That would also mean the mid tiers only get a 7-B rating.
 
Last edited:
I still have to disagree with whats above. The fact if the matter is that Lay still demolished the entire soldiers regardless. Now I'm not disregarding what the OP written, but thanks to the author pulling an unnecessary contradiction, this pretty much is a standstill. This is why from last thread I was hoping we can find any other feats for the mid tiers since what was written during that scene goes against each other
 
The soldiers' attacks were able to scrape away cities and leave huge holes in mountains. I don't see how that doesn't give them 7-B.
 
Last edited:
imZer0Null said:
Currently, Lay is considered 5-A. He can be scaled to Shin Reglia, who can undoubtedly be scaled to a suppressed Anos. 5-A Lay has all feats from Volume 1-10 of the series.

This battle took place in Volume 7. That being the case, it's possible that Lay might not have been 5-A yet. Lay was at least 7-B tho, and there are feats to support that. If Lay isn't considered a 5-A during Volume 7, then that means the soldiers would only get a 7-B rating. That would also mean the mid tiers only get a 7-B rating.
Click to expand...
Lay evenly fought with Anos tho. I'm not pretty sure with what Volume was that because honestly I don't have the light novels.
 
imZer0Null said:
The soldiers' attacks were able to scrape away cities and leave huge holes in mountains. I don't see how that doesn't give them 7-B.
Click to expand...
Thats not in the OP unless I didn't see it anywhere....also Misha/Sasha 7-B justification is legit "Comparable to the clash between Anos and Lay, which caused a mountain to vanish, and also blowing away the clouds)" and its not even stated that they are comparable to that clash nor is it written

So someone legit lied about that justification with no evidence whatsoever hence why again we need to find ACTUAL feats except the one about Lay vs soldiers
 
BlackeJan said:
Thats not in the OP unless I didn't see it anywhere....also Misha/Sasha 7-B justification is legit "Comparable to the clash between Anos and Lay, which caused a mountain to vanish, and also blowing away the clouds)" and its not even stated that they are comparable to that clash nor is it written
Click to expand...
It was given in the OP. That clash is used to give a few characters a 7-B rating. The point of this post is to give more proof that mid tiers can be scaled to that clash, since both the clash and the battle with the soldiers are 7-B feats.
 
Last edited:
That clash is NOT evidence for a 7-B rating like at all....you would have a much better arguments with the soldiers then you would with that false justification

Explain to me how that clash is the reason for 7-B since that clash is the main reason they got that tier in the first place
 
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
Reference for common feats exists and there are already calcs about average mountain destruction, which are 7-B, unless you use vaporization, which then bumps it to 6-C
Click to expand...
Thats still sounds like its unfair for other verses to use calcs but not this one but fine though I will ask calcers if its possible to calc that feat

My main problem is was HOW they Misha/Sasha be comparable to it when its not even written that they are
 
I mean, if there are verses that didnt use the calc, then maybe the person who created the pages didnt know about the already existing mountain calcs, but anyone can use them technically
 
BlackeJan said:
Thats still sounds like its unfair for other verses to use calcs but not this one but fine though I will ask calcers if its possible to calc that feat

My main problem is was HOW they Misha/Sasha be comparable to it when its not even written that they are
Click to expand...
The clash is only a reference to a 7-B feat, and I use it because it's used in other profiles as well. With the proof I've given, I think it's safe to say that mid tiers are 7-B. If you really feel that they shouldn't be scaled to the clash, the only thing that would change is that they're scaled to the soldiers. They will still remain 7-B.
 
Last edited:
Also, please stay open-minded. If I'm not mistaken, you've only watched the anime. You might be thinking that there is no way Misha and Sasha can be 7-B, but they become much stronger after the anime.
 
imZer0Null said:
Also, please stay open-minded. If I'm not mistaken, you've only watched the anime. You might be thinking that there is no way Misha and Sasha can be 7-B, but they become much stronger after the anime.
Click to expand...
This isn't about just being an anime person only....its what your evidence is written and just like I told you the last time I know they are powerful, it was said a bunch of times in the anime anyways
imZer0Null said:
The clash is only a reference to a 7-B feat, and I use it since it's used in other profiles as well. With the proof I've given, I think it's safe to say that mid tiers are 7-B. If you really feel that they shouldn't be scaled to the clash, the only thing that would change is that they're scaled to the soldiers. They will still remain 7-B.
Click to expand...
You still dont understand though....give proof how Misha/Sasha from THAT justification should have them be comparable to that 7-B clash because thats the WHOLE REASOM why you want to give them that rating in the first place
 
Hmm... I feel like you're missing something here.

They get their 7-B rating since they were able to fight the 7-B soldiers. They don't actually get it from the clash. The clash is only used as a reference to a 7-B feat in the profiles. I prefer using the clash over using the fight with the soldiers on their profiles, since the clash is used on other profiles as well. Please remember that both the clash and the fight with the soldiers are 7-B feats, and no matter which feat we use, they will remain 7-B.
 
The reason Lay had a key at 5-A was because of the clash he had with Anos that destroyed mountains, and later on Anos has a feat of pushing the moon which is 5-A, so by default since Lay was comparable to Anos that time, he's also 5-A. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anos was clearly holding back the amount of physical strength he exerted. Plus, it's explained that the reason Lay was able to hang with Anos during that fight wasn't due to keeping up in physical strength, but due to the fact that he was cleverly diverting the force/power of Anos' blows.

Another problem we have. I understand that theoretically if a character is able to exert a certain amount of force, they should be durable enough to withstand it. However, many characters in the story become a lot stronger Post-Silver Sea. If a character was 7-B, then became 3-A later on(due to being able to harm deep-world inhabitants), then that would mean that their durability jumped from 7-B to 3-A. Which, again, doesn't make any sense.

Oh yeah, to add to my original statement(about Lay's 5-A key). Anos has a feat of destroying an entire universe with a single punch, putting him at 3-A: . Are you trying to tell me that Lay was already 3-A Pre-Silver Sea?
 
AncientKing95 said:
The reason Lay had a key at 5-A was because of the clash he had with Anos that destroyed mountains, and later on Anos has a feat of pushing the moon which is 5-A, so by default since Lay was comparable to Anos that time, he's also 5-A. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anos was clearly holding back the amount of physical strength he exerted. Plus, it's explained that the reason Lay was able to hang with Anos during that fight wasn't due to keeping up in physical strength, but due to the fact that he was cleverly diverting the force/power of Anos' blows.

Another problem we have. I understand that theoretically if a character is able to exert a certain amount of force, they should be durable enough to withstand it. However, many characters in the story become a lot stronger Post-Silver Sea. If a character was 7-B, then became 3-A later on(due to being able to harm deep-world inhabitants), then that would mean that their durability jumped from 7-B to 3-A. Which, again, doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...

imZer0Null said:
Currently, Lay is considered 5-A. He can be scaled to Shin Reglia, who can undoubtedly be scaled to a suppressed Anos. 5-A Lay has all feats from Volume 1-10 of the series.

This battle took place in Volume 7. That being the case, it's possible that Lay might not have been 5-A yet. Lay was at least 7-B tho, and there are feats to support that. If Lay isn't considered a 5-A during Volume 7, then that means the soldiers would only get a 7-B rating. That would also mean the mid tiers only get a 7-B rating.
Click to expand...
 
imZer0Null said:
Hmm... I feel like you're missing something here.

They get their 7-B rating since they were able to fight the 7-B soldiers. They don't actually get it from the clash. The clash is only used as a reference to a 7-B feat in the profiles. I prefer using the clash over using the fight with the soldiers on their profiles, since the clash is used on other profiles as well. Please remember that both the clash and the fight with the soldiers are 7-B feats, and no matter which feat we use, they will remain 7-B.
Click to expand...
Actually my good sir, its you that dont understand....you cant just think "yeah they gonna stay 7-B because I said so" yet you still dont provide evidence of them being comparable to the clash nor understand how Lay vs soldiers scene is literally contradicting itself
 
You're ignoring what I'm saying.

The soldiers can scrape away cities and leave huge holes in mountains. That makes them 7-B. The mid tiers can put up a good fight against said soldiers, making them 7-B.

THEY ARE ONLY COMPARABLE TO THE CLASH BECAUSE BOTH FEATS ARE 7-B. They don't get a 7-B rating because of the clash. They get a 7-B rating since they are able to fight against the soldiers.

I only used the clash as a comparison since it's used in other profiles. I can easily just swap out the clash feat for the feat of them fighting against the soldiers.
 
And you STILL dont get it. I didn't ignore a single thing you said but you keep using the Lay vs Soldiers fight for mid tiers even though they got completely one shotted meaning they aren't comparable to someone who has an AP way more then their durability can handle. Also I didn't wanna say, but the link you provided are not even translated...is there anyone who can provide the translated LN feat?

Also I noticed something....the thing about the soldiers destroying a city is something vague. It doesn't say that a soldier can destroyer one in one shot so this can legit be overtime
 
Okay, since you once again ignored what I said, I won't respond to you after this until someone else's input on this matter is given.

The soldiers don't get 7-B because they fought Lay. They get 7-B because they are capable of scraping away cities and leaving huge holes in mountains. The mid tiers weren't stomped by the soldiers, and the soldiers weren't stomped by Lay. All of these opponents were able to harm each other.

I only brought up the the fight with Lay since it could possibly have given the soldiers likely 5-A as well. Since I realised that Lay might not have been 5-A yet during this fight, neither the soldiers or the mid tiers get 5-A. Still, Lay and the soldiers get 7-B, and there is proof that supports that. The mid tiers were able to put up a good fight against the soldiers, also giving them 7-B.
 
Cloozuma said:
Both, but separate. We have to calc it first before we give such rating.
Click to expand...
The clash feat has already been accepted as 7-B previously. I can't provide you with the details. I know Oblivion talked about it before tho. Sorry.

As for the soldiers' feat, the fact that they left huge holes in mountains isn't the main focus, but rather the fact that they scraped away cities is the focus of that feat. There isn't a calc for it. Still, them scraping away cities is consistent with the fact that they were also able to harm someone with City level durability.
 
Last edited:
imZer0Null said:
The clash feat has already been accepted as 7-B previously. I can't provide you with the details. I know Oblivion talked about it before tho. Sorry.

As for the soldiers' feat, the fact that they left huge holes in mountains isn't my main focus, but rather the fact that they scraped away cities is the focus of that feat. There isn't a calc for it. Still, them scraping away cities is consistent with the fact that they were also able to harm someone with City level durability.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Tatsumi504
  • Locked
Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha: UES and Scaling (Part 1)
Replies
22
Views
2K
EldemadeDityjon
EldemadeDityjon
Dark_Soul20189
  • Locked
Minor Maou Gakuin rework
2 3
Replies
94
Views
6K
Dark_Soul20189
Dark_Soul20189
CloverDragon03
  • Locked
Maou Gakuin no Futekigousha CRT: Addressing Venuzdonoa’s “Logic Manipulation”
3 4 5
Replies
175
Views
14K
UchihaSlayer96
UchihaSlayer96
Dereck03
  • Locked
Last (?) Maou CRT
Replies
34
Views
4K
Dereck03
Dereck03
Dereck03
  • Locked
Minor Maou CRT.
2 3
Replies
86
Views
5K
Dereck03
Dereck03
Back
Top