Sephiroth's speed

[A6colute]

As you know, his speed was scaled from Zack (because he is faster than Zack).

But Zack's speed is very unclear.

Yes, he is able to win against Bahamut.

But later he was killed by usual bullets.

So, his speed is very contradictory. And it makes any scaling from him a very contradictory too.

Therefore we need calcs for Sephiroth's speed without scaling from Zack.

And before that Sephiroth's speed must be setted as Unknown.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Him dying to bullets is major PIS according to his higher feats, as he has fought many, many monsters with strength clearly beyond that of regular bullets.

 

[A6colute]

Him dying to bullets is major PIS according to his higher feats

Do you have calcs/proof to his speed without scaling from Bahamut?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Why do you want calcs? His stats in total come from scaling from Bahamut Fury, a character he plainly beat, and then went on to defeat characters stronger than him.

Again, we can't say his speed is contradictory when the dying to bullets in whole is serious PIS.

 

[A6colute]

Why do you want calcs?

Because

His stats in total come from scaling from Bahamut Fury

I don't trust this scaling (because I dont's trust Bahamut's stats). And I have reasons for that.

Do you have any ANOTHER cals? Or not?

 

[A6colute]

when the dying to bullets in whole is serious PIS.

Really? Or maybe PIS - Bahamut's speed feat?

 

[The_Everlasting]

No, because, again, his stats in their entirety come from scaling from Bahamut Fury. Final Fantasy is an odd thing like that were just about every ranking comes from scaling from an external source.

And again, we can't say his speed is contradictory when the dying to bullets in whole is serious PIS.

Again, that logic works both ways. I can easily claim the bullets scene is PIS and you can do the same with Bahamut Fury's battle. However, considering just how many supernatural monsters Zack faces that are clearly stronger than bullets, the fact that he dies to bullets is extreme PIS.

 

[Jmanghan]

Some guys on a random Naruto Forums website calc'd Sephiroth at Mach f*cking 100.

Which he is most certainly not.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Are you saying he's faster than that or slower? Because, by scaling from Zack, he's at least 55 times FTL.

 

[AlexHoskins]

I believe that his speed is beyond powerful, as he is quite an Lightning Bruiser.

 

[A6colute]

No, because, again, his stats in their entirety come from scaling from Bahamut Fury.

And? Maybe Bahamut's stats - PIS?

You think that Zack's death - PIS.

I think that Bahamut's stats - PIS.

And?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Again, the problem is that PIS logic works both ways. You could easily claim a scene is PIS because of another but I can do it in reverse. I'm pretty sure we'll never agree with this anyways.

 

[A6colute]

However, considering just how many supernatural monsters Zack faces that are clearly stronger than bullets, the fact that he dies to bullets is extreme PIS.

Do you have speed calcs for this monsters?

 

[Jmanghan]

Are you saying he's faster than that or slower? Because, by scaling from Zack, he's at least 55 times FTL.

Dodging Bullets is... absolutely... nothing compared to Light.

Light is the fastest thing in our universe other then Tachyons.

Sephiroth isn't even faster then Lightning, let-alone Light itself. This thread is too much.

 

[Antvasima]

I really liked FFVII Crisis Core, and personally think that Zack dying from bullets is major Plot Induced Stupidity, given that he has withstood much greater damage, but also agree with A6colute that most authors tend to make a massive distinction between travel/flight speed and combat speed. Perhaps the best compromise is to place the FFVII characters as "Unknown" in speed?

 

[A6colute]

Again, the problem is that PIS logic works both ways. You could easily claim a scene is PIS because of another but I can do it in reverse.

Therefore we need another calc.

Or Sephiroth's speed must be setted as Unknown.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@A6colute

It's not about speed. But if he fights practically dozens of superhuman monsters, saying he can die to normal bullets is... preposterous to say the least. We can't just say one part of the scene is PIS but the other isn't.

No, we can just accept that Zack dying to bullets is PIS and have that be the end of it.

@Jmanghan

Look on Zack's page and you'll see why.

Also, FTL speed in fiction is extremely common.

 

[A6colute]

Perhaps the best compromise is to place the FFVII characters as "Unknown" in speed?

Yes.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Except I don't really see why Bahamut Fury can't fight at the speed it travels. Yes, while travel speed and combat speed tend to differ, I don't think we can say it does unless we have definitive proof, especially when our evidence is a scene of major PIS.

 

[A6colute]

No, we can just accept that Zack dying to bullets is PIS and have that be the end of it.

No. We can just accept that Zack dying to bullets is not PIS and that Sephiroth's speed is supersonic+ in a best case.

 

[Jmanghan]

@A6colute
It's not about speed. But if he fights practically dozens of superhuman monsters, saying he can die to normal bullets is... preposterous to say the least. We can't just say one part of the scene is PIS but the other isn't.

No, we can just accept that Zack dying to bullets is PIS and have that be the end of it.

@Jmanghan

Look on Zack's page and you'll see why.

Also, FTL speed in fiction is extremely common.

Unless they're outright stated to be faster then Light, like Goku and DBZ characters are, please Calc these things before you just outright state someone is faster then light. I don't think anyone in Final Fantasy has come close to that point yet. You need to learn all the measurements on how fast light TRULY is before you can just go comparing it to certain characters.

 

[A6colute]

Except I don't really see why Bahamut Fury can't fight at the speed it travels.

Read Claymore.

Clare vs Rigardo battle.

Clare has big movement's speed, but cannot fight on this speed.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Jmanghan Bahamut Fury flew from either another planet or from the asteroid belt to Earth in 11 seconds.

@A6colute

Again, unless it's explicitly shown, I don't think we can just write off a travel feat as travel speed without proof that it is the case.

 

[Jmanghan]

The speed of light in a vacuum is 186,282 miles per second.


PER SECOND.


If you could travel at the speed of light, you could go around the Earth 7.5 times in one second.

 

[A6colute]

I don't think we can just write off a travel feat as travel speed without proof that it is the case.

No.

It's YOU must proof that travel speed = fight speed.

Not ME.

 

[A6colute]

If you could travel at the speed of light, you could go around the Earth 7.5 times in one second.

And Zack with this speed was traveling on usual vehicles...

 

[Jmanghan]

I don't think we can just write off a travel feat as travel speed without proof that it is the case.
No.

It's YOU must proof that travel speed = fight speed.

Not ME.

Bahamut wouldn't really need to fight him if he flies that fast. Just fly as fast as he can in Zack's direction and Zack would explode into tiny pieces instantly.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Huh? There's nothing that shows that Bahamut Fury can fly faster than it fights. Not to mention if it had to dodge things on its way to Earth, it would require good enough reactions to see where it was going, and if its reactions were that good, Zack wouldn't have been able to hit Bahamut Fury once if he was any slower than FTL+.

This isn't even brining in the fact that Genesis > Bahamut Fury in virtually all regards.

 

[A6colute]

Bahamut wouldn't really need to fight him if he flies that fast. Just fly as fast as he can in Zack's direction and Zack would explode into tiny pieces instantly.

Agree.

 

[A6colute]

There's nothing that shows that Bahamut Fury can fly faster than it fights.

Again.

It's YOU must proof that travel speed = fight speed.

Not ME.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Then that shows that Bahamut Fury can fight as fast as it flies. Right?

Again, there's no proof. So we can't just write it off as a travel feat.

 

[A6colute]

Then that shows that Bahamut Fury can fight as fast as it flies.

If his travel speed really FTL. Than

Bahamut wouldn't really need to fight him if he flies that fast. Just fly as fast as he can in Zack's direction and Zack would explode into tiny pieces instantly.

 

[Antvasima]

Look, The Everlasting, as you know I really appreciate your help, like Final Fantasy, and mean no offense but we must try to be unbiased, and what A6colute and Jmanghan say actually makes sense regarding that we cannot automatically count travel speed and combat speed as equal, and that Zack gave no indication of being able to run that swiftly within the game when using ordinary vehicles for transportation.

Placing the characters at "Unknown" speed seems fair. I have done so myself in plenty of other uncertain cases in this wiki.

 

[Jmanghan]

Then that shows that Bahamut Fury can fight as fast as it flies. Right?
Again, there's no proof. So we can't just write it off as a travel feat.

You never really pointed out any reason for us to think that, you pretty much wrote this message and assumed that it meant something of some meaning :/

 

[The_Everlasting]

It just doesn't make any sense to me to write it off as a travel feat when there's no proof he can't fight that fast.

As I mentioned before, what about Genesis being > Bahamut Fury.

 

[Jmanghan]

Look, The Everlasting, as you know I really appreciate your help, like Final Fantasy, and mean no offense but we must try to be unbiased, and what A6colute and Jmanghan say actually makes sense. Placing the characters at "Unknown" speed seems fair. I have done so myself in plenty of other uncertain cases in this wiki.

Well, we know that Bahamut Fury itself isn't faster then Light, so that's something.

Also @The Everlasting. You can be more powerful then something but not be as fast. Cloud is nowhere... NEAR Sephiroth in speed, its not even comparable, but through his power he is able to fight evenly with him. Power makes a huge difference in fights.

 

[The_Everlasting]

How do we know Bahamut Fury isn't FTL?

 

[A6colute]

It just doesn't make any sense to me to write it off as a travel feat when there's no proof he can't fight that fast.

Look. You must prove your sentences. It's basic rule of logic.

You say - his fight speed = his travel speed. But it's only words. Without proof it means nothing.

 

[The_Everlasting]

You also say his flight speed Ôëá combat speed. But those are only words. Without proof it means nothing.

And again, what about Genesis and others being superior to Bahamut Fury?

Sorry if I'm sounding biased, it's the early morning where I'm at and I'm feeling rather grouchy.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we can power scale them, just not scale fighting speed from flight speed when there are too many contradictions involved. That said, if we had the resources, we should technically write "travel speed" for each character in this wiki that has had its speed calculated from its flight speed, with unknown combat speed if this has not been calculated separately.