Shibuki Shibushi vs Accelerator

[Malox1696]

Oh, and just so we know this isn't a stomp. Accel can win if he instantly ejects her into space while his wounds are openning, but otherwise he loses

With the current version is a stomp, platinum wings, even without 545

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Do you wanna explain how or nah?

 

[Malox1696]

3rd tim, platinum wings doesn't relies on accel calculation power and gives him increased durability so he can just shoot her from distance with a thought even if heavily damaged

Base form there is 545 that even in the best case scenario will still win on her own while accel is on the ground

If is baseform accel without 545 it becomes fair and just depends on shibuki choice of fighting style, if she tries to instantly go for the kill she dies , if she wait him out she wins

 

[XDragnoir]

as I said before, this fight is a draw as both will die, or only shibuki will die. If this Accelerator is with the PWs, then he has more than enough calculation capacity to prevent the bleeding, not only that but even if his body is rendered useless, Qliphah's presence means that even if Accel can not, someone still here to think Shibuki dead.

 

[Potato_Gambit]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, Accel has no problem reducing Shibukin down to the smallest elementary particles instantly while at the same time patching himself from his re-opened wounds. All the while Qliphah's enducing madness on Shibuki.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Considering speed is still not equalized, her ability is instantaneous and would be working at the very start, and that one of the wounds Accel actually suffered before did incapacitate him, no he's not just subconsciously keeping himself awake and then killing her right there. You can't compare what happened with Aiwass to what happened while saving Last Order. Is not even the same kind of wound and it didn't affect him in the same way.

 

[XDragnoir]

accel could still use his powers even after the headshot to save his life and yoshikawa's, so "incapacitated" here isn't right, not only that, shibuki also need to reopen Qliphah's wounds and Will's, or she will only incap one of the three minds in Accel body.

 

[Malox1696]

Considering speed is still not equalized, her ability is instantaneous and would be working at the very start, and that one of the wounds Accel actually suffered before did incapacitate him, no he's not just subconsciously keeping himself awake and then killing her right there. You can't compare what happened with Aiwass to what happened while saving Last Order. Is not even the same kind of wound and it didn't affect him in the same way.

as said before if we remove 545 and platinum wings it just depends on her, as reflection would be the last thing that goes down so if she tries to go for close melee she dies if she just waits him to bleed out she wins as sooner or later he would succumb to the pain and focus, but op need to fix the OP, right now it's a stomp

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@XDragonair I really hope you are making a CRT right now, because your implication is that Accelerator can never really be incapacitated because he has 2 backup minds ready to take the reins of his body for him. And if that's a thing, which I don't remember it being a thing, it very much needs to go into his profile because it might as well make him impossible to incapacitate or mindhax normally and that's a rather big deal.

@Malox Shibushi doesn't go for melee combat, that's not her forte and not something she would do unless she was really forced, so no.

I also forgot to say. Shibushi can pretty much just wreck Accelerator's choker as well. Fullpower Scar Dead started destroying the building they were fighting in due to "wounds" it had been inflicted from it's construction.

 

[Malox1696]

no she can't, it was mentioned that repair count,but it was stated by another character that MAYBE construction too but if it truly worked like that she would have won from the start by destructing the clothes (or even better the human body)

btw i think he meant for platinum wings form that he is not reliant on his consciousness for calculation as they do it for him

btw if esper mode is on and he falls unconscious reflection will still work the same as before as it works even if he is asleep (until the battery goes out obv or he dies)

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

If all they could do is assume, the best we can go for is what's directly shown, that she can even revive the wounds in a building that, unless you can prove otherwise, has no signs of having been "destroyed" and then repaired before. just constructed.

That would still require an CRT because it would imply that incapacitating Accel wouldn't stop his powers. He would pretty much be able to attack even if knocked out, and perhaps even mind haxed if they are doing the calculations for him.

Doesn't matter. He'd be incapacitated, which is still a win if it lasts enough. And he was incapacitated at least a few hours from the headshot wound.

 

[Malox1696]

If all they could do is assume, the best we can go for is what's directly shown, that she can even revive the wounds in a building that, unless you can prove otherwise, has no signs of having been "destroyed" and then repaired before. just constructed.
That would still require an CRT because it would imply that incapacitating Accel wouldn't stop his powers. He would pretty much be able to attack even if knocked out, and perhaps even mind haxed if they are doing the calculations for him.

Doesn't matter. He'd be incapacitated, which is still a win if it lasts enough. And he was incapacitated at least a few hours from the headshot wound.

no it was stated that was repaired before, while the construction part was just speculation(and again if it didn't work on clothes why should it work on accessories ?), again don't make up abilities like the unconscious thing, just because people felt unconscious once that does not mean that they do again when she activates her ability as she just reopens the wounds a clear example is when she used it at full power people there were still conscious and got off with a few scratches when they almost died multiple time before, people fall cause of the accumulated pain and blood loss over an extend period to the ability

the head shoot wound would reopen but it would not recreate the impact of the special bullet it would mess with his focus ( like all other wounds) and will tire him out, but he would not fall unconscious instantly like u all claim

in the first 5 minute he would fight mostly "OK", in the later part he would slowly tire himself out until he can keep up anymore and after 30 min he would die

leaving aside that op still has not changed form or restrained 545

btw what's the max range ?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Actually, it was only stated it must have been repaired before because it was apparently old, but then the very same dude that said this changes his mind and thinks even construction may count as a repaired wound. It's also pretty directly implied both her and Gagamaru were directly responsible for the destruction of the Hanokiwa General Hospital for which we have no timeframe of it existing, but they were there 3 years after the farthest point in time we know the hospital was operational. That's not enough time for any building to get so much damage it would be completely crumbled into pieces. And perhaps, I don't know... they didn't pass out and fall unconscious because they had never done that from any of the wounds they got all across the series? That's just an stamina feat for them, not proof that Accelerator won't be affected like this.

Yes, slowly tire himself out with all the mental and physical wounds he has ever been inflicted, including a head wound that left him unconscious and requiring special equipment to compensate for his motor and verbal skills months later.

And again, that still needs a CRT.

 

[Malox1696]

Actually, it was only stated it must have been repaired before because it was apparently old, but then the very same dude that said this changes his mind and thinks even construction may count as a repaired wound. It's also pretty directly implied both her and Gagamaru were directly responsible for the destruction of the Hanokiwa General Hospital for which we have no timeframe of it existing, but they were there 3 years after the farthest point in time we know the hospital was operational. That's not enough time for any building to get so much damage it would be completely crumbled into pieces. And perhaps, I don't know... they didn't pass out and fall unconscious because they had never done that from any of the wounds they got all across the series? That's just an stamina feat for them, not proof that Accelerator won't be affected like this.
Yes, slowly tire himself out with all the mental and physical wounds he has ever been inflicted, including a head wound that left him unconscious and requiring special equipment to compensate for his motor and verbal skills months later.

And again, that still needs a CRT.

kenichi has multiple felt unconscious, just the fight before he almost died and his hearth stopped, he got stabbed by multiple swords and felt unconscious, etc (that the point of his character has he is the most normal) did u even read the manga ?

he damaged his calculation part that is required for all the other function, that part is outsourced not repaired, and even than he was still able to use his power before and after falling unconscious to the impact of the bullet as it was literally special made to have multiple impact (she can't recreate the impact itself)

as u can see the profile still needs to be updated(wrong durability, mo mentions of new ability,etc), but his connection to the network is there already, although XDrag might have explained it badly, his mind is shared with 2 other they can use his ability in his stead, so let's say accel wants to grab a bottle they do the action and calculation for him so he just needs to input his will, but if he fully unconscious they can't just move his body, maybe 545 can with possession, but she never used it on him in that way (the subconscious abilities will still work tho)

 

[Potato_Gambit]

Slowly tire a sub-relativistic. While Accel is slowly tiring out, Shibuki is already poofed out of existance with his wings & Puzzle 545 helping and enhancing his calculations.

 

[Malox1696]

Slowly tire a sub-relativistic. While Accel is slowly tiring out, Shibuki is already poofed out of existance with his wings & Puzzle 545 helping and enhancing his calculation.

obv im making the assumption the fight is base form without 545 cause it would be a stomp otherwise as said above

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

You mean Zenkichi...? I am not sure why you would use Zenkichi as an equivalence seeing how he was revived by Ajimu.

... You realize that one way or another, the attack doesn't matter but the effect it had on him? The specific damage it did to Accelerator is what knocked him out, it's what ****** up his calculation ability, you are being entirely dishonest telling me just because the bullet ain't present, the same thing won't happen. Re opening the wound to how it was after being inflicted and inflicting it again under similar circumstances would be pretty much the same thing.

I don't really think him being unable to move his body would matter much. His body has vectors, they can still manipulate vectors and do the calculations, and he can still affect vectors from a distance. Unless they can't do anything after he's been knocked out, but that doesn't seem to be the case from how he worded it.

 

[Malox1696]

You mean Zenkichi...? I am not sure why you would use Zenkichi as an equivalence seeing how he was revived by Ajimu.
... You realize that one way or another, the attack doesn't matter but the effect it had on him? The specific damage it did to Accelerator is what knocked him out, it's what ****** up his calculation ability, you are being entirely dishonest telling me just because the bullet ain't present, the same thing won't happen. Re opening the wound to how it was after being inflicted and inflicting it again under similar circumstances would be pretty much the same thing.

I don't really think him being unable to move his body would matter much. His body has vectors, they can still manipulate vectors and do the calculations, and he can still affect vectors from a distance. Unless they can't do anything after he's been knocked out, but that doesn't seem to be the case from how he worded it.

again did u read the manga ? he was not revived, she just moved his consciousness, he was out cause of shock of too much damage https://s8.mkklcdnv8.com/************/m1/medaka_box/vol9_chapter_71_come_again_when_its_over/12.jpg

it's later even confirmed by kumogawa that he would have revived him anyway, btw that was just one of the recent ones i pointed out another (that u convinietly ignored)

again u are just making ability up, she literally open the wounds she doesn't recreate the damage, if i get punched and get a bruise it would open up but i would not get hit by the concussion that comes with the punch, that's why people don't instantly knock out when she uses it

im not being dishonest his brain damage was never fixed opening the wound would just let blood flow out

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Yet the panel readily preceding that has Hitoyoshi's organs failing, his lungs and hearts have stopped, and there's no mention of this changing at all until he just coincidently wakes up the moment Ajimu sends him back? The venom is slow acting and the serum was applied, yet Kumagawa certainly dies before he comes back. I ignored nothing, the panels just very much contradict that notion. This without mentioning that what got him like that was the poison, which is not really a wound? Any damage to his organs would have been from the fight, but there was obviously no damage.

Making abilities up or you are just ignoring what I am saying, like you imply I am? This still doesn't deal with the situation about his choker getting potentially affected as well. Not to mention his wound was certainly fixed, what couldn't be fixed was the effects to his brain.

 

[Malox1696]

it literally say "ur body took too much damage and nearly died of shock" btw keep ignoring others situation where zen falls unconscious (or succumbs to damage) please, in the first place why are u writing here if u didn't read the manga im providing scan while u do literally nothing

Affecting the choker is false: 1 it was never damaged 2 it did not work on clothes, so A she only affects damaged things or B she can't affect things u wear or C she has to target things, so without previous knowledge why would she target the choker ?

yes as i said the wound would reopen but that part is not used as it's outsourced by the choker, and again read the site rules too, if she instantly incapacitates the opponent without giving them the ability to fight back it's a stomp by definition (that's why 4 b form and 545 would be a stomp in favor of accel)

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Because apparently you read the manga as you love to remind me, so you should remember the line or be able to look for it. Ajimu also mentions he "almost died", yet he was in the exact same situation as Kumagawa who did die and a good several couple of seconds before he woke up, yet he only "nearly died" and coincidently there's no further word about his condition until he wakes up just as Ajimu sends him back.

But the building was never damaged either? Tons of very old buildings exist, rarely any are a bunch of rubble because of the wear, yet both the Hanokiwa general hospital and the school building started crumbling to pieces right away? If we decide to ignore the construction, the biggest "wound" would be all the things that were changed while repairing it. If we don't take the repairing line as serious, just its "construction" would count as a wound. If we don't, then "repairing it" would also count as a wound. GROUP played around with the choker and boosted his time to 30 minutes, plus adding the safety device. That sounds like a lot of parts were moved to me, and by either interpretation the choker is good as done.

Then you can increase the range and/or change the Accelerator key, as rushing into melee range is not uncommon for him.

 

[Malox1696]

that's just ur speculation, and obv as u just read the chapter u will remember kumogawa saying he was not surprised to see zen alive, and again u are ignoring the other times he was down cause of damage

u keep ignoring the fact that it didn't work on clothes, or glasses or whatever they were wearing, btw wasn't the building damaged multiple time by previous fights ? Alone they would not amount to much but all together they would

i can't change things OP should

if we are talking in character is not uncommon for her to start opening the light injuries first and later the others while mixing melee with her ability (she uses razor blade in the first place)

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Kumagawa's words don't change what happened. Zenkichi went from having his lungs and Heart completely stopped and apparently organs malfunctioning like Kumagawa to standing up just as Ajimu sent his consciousness back. Kumagawa also died and had enough time to revive, despite the fact both were bitten all over and at the same time. And sure, list all the times Zenkichi was knocked out from damage before the Kumagawa fight.

So they would conveniently forget the building was damaged by battles and suggest it was repairs or constructions...? Okay, sure. So Hanokiwa General Hospital was also destroyed by a battle in the past and that's why it was in rubbles?

Except in that one fight she wasn't going all out. The moment Kumagawa says she can lose, she goes all in. She cared more about the Minus 13 class losing, evident by her caring a lot about Kumagawa saying "Win for sure!" than about holding back.

 

[Malox1696]

ur again are speculation as it was literally said he was out cause of the shock btw here 1 https://s8.mkklcdnv8.com/**********...1_i_call_the_student_council_to_action/37.jpg 2 https://s8.mkklcdnv8.com/************/m1/medaka_box/vol5_chapter_36_lets_be_wary_of_bad_skin/3.jpg

i did my part so now do ur showing people getting instantly knocked out or showing her recreating the impact of the damage (or even internal damage for all that matters)

again u are ignoring the fact that clothes and other accessories did not get damaged, is the choker more similar to an accessory or a building ? (leaving aside she is one of the few minus that can target things and keep her power under control so it might be possible she has to target non-living things)

i said same thing as u, if they go all out from the start accel would instantly kill her from range that's why i don't think increasing the range would work

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Posting scans without context doesn't prove your point. Zenkichi gets up almost right after in the second one, and Munakata even directly points out Zenkichi is almost out of stamina. Which wouldn't be the case when the wounds opened. On the first one, people even weaker than Zenkichi (the kendo group) are still awake, and Zenkichi nonchalantly gets back up to deal with the dude. Not to mention you seem to have gotten mighty confused. Accelerator didn't just get up knocked in the head, he got shot and his brain got hurt. A big wound suddenly opening in your brain isn't comparable to a bruise.

Ignoring them just getting new clothes and items, their surprise was that Scar Dead worked on "non living things". So your assumption a building would get affected but anything else not is absurd.

... Going all out has literally nothing to do with Kumagawa going for ranged attacks. Shibushi went all out the second she stopped caring about winning like Kumagawa had asked her to do, it isn't just something she doesn't do due to a character flaw.

 

[Malox1696]

Posting scans without context doesn't prove your point. Zenkichi gets up almost right after in the second one, and Munakata even directly points out Zenkichi is almost out of stamina. Which wouldn't be the case when the wounds opened. On the first one, people even weaker than Zenkichi (the kendo group) are still awake, and Zenkichi nonchalantly gets back up to deal with the dude. Not to mention you seem to have gotten mighty confused. Accelerator didn't just get up knocked in the head, he got shot and his brain got hurt. A big wound suddenly opening in your brain isn't comparable to a bruise.
Ignoring them just getting new clothes and items, their surprise was that Scar Dead worked on "non living things". So your assumption a building would get affected but anything else not is absurd.

... Going all out has literally nothing to do with Kumagawa going for ranged attacks. Shibushi went all out the second she stopped caring about winning like Kumagawa had asked her to do, it isn't just something she doesn't do due to a character flaw.

he got knocked out all the same, getting back up later or not does not matter, by ur logic he should have still be out cold when he got hit by scar dead while he does not

and u seem to misunderstand, the projectile was partially stopped(thanks to the fact that is so advanced that creating multiple impact gives a bit of lag), it fractured his skull sending some bone part inside but not fully penetrate it, he was still conscious and even removed it, then a bit later he was knocked out unconscious thank to the damage on his calculation brain part and the concussion of the projectile itself (rapid blood pressure loss and concussion, same reason why when u get hit on the head u wobble a bit and sometime fall), even then he still used his power to control the blood flow of another person subconsciously until she was saved, now that that brain part is useless opening the wound will obv pain accelerator but, as it's outsourced, his calculation would still work fine

i meant that it worked only on the building not on the clothes and accessories they were wearing or other thing inside the room, so A it works only on damaged things and not on assembled things (so as along it was not damaged it should be fine) B it works only on building (really make no sense) C she has to target that part of the ability like she does normally ( it would explain why only the building was affected while leaving every non living thing untouched)

what kumogawa has to do with this ? i meant that if it's in character she would toy a bit and accel would too try to preserve battery, if they go all out from the start accel would just throw something at her or use wind /fissure/shock waves, that's why i said increasing the range is not a good idea

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Simplifying doesn't make it right. Dudes below Zenkichi somehow manage to remain awake and they got beat even more with visible wounds on their heads, doesn't make a lot of sense. Not to mention the "laying down after a hit then getting up" thing in anime is death common, and rarely is the character even knocked out. I don't see how damage to his calculation area somehow knocks him out, obviously it was just a matter of bleeding and damage to the brain, plus pain. And the bullet very much did penetrate, Heaven Canceller even outright mentions bullet fragments in the frontal lobe. And... you really think he will be alright with a bleeding wound in his brain? Well okay. We agree to disagree on this I guess.

Shibushi would have to showcase an actual care about aiming her ability, when she just went ahead and affected anyone in range without a care, so unlikely. The "assembled" part also makes no sense, as it forces us to assume Hanokiwa General Hospital apparently had such extensive reconstruction it would crumble when Shibushi used her Minus. And finally, this is all way more easily solved by the characters getting new clothes. You don't exactly "fix" the already broken glass in a pair of glasses, for one.

... You tell me I don't read the manga and then ask me what Kumagawa has to do with this, when Kumagawa asking her to win is the very reason Shibushi didn't use her full power from the start, her internal dialogue has her frantically thinking she'll try to win no matter what for Kumagawa and class Minus 13 while thinking she had seemingly had no chance, so obviously using full power Scar Dead wasn't an option because she's just end up killing everyone, or at least herself. Not the best way to "win".

 

[Malox1696]

yes but ur logic was: bullet made accel unconscious (false already but anyway) so reopening that wound would make him unconscious, same logic would apply zen get hit's in the head and goes unconscious, reopening the wound would make him unconscious even for a minute or a second

HC mention bone fragment not bullet " He's having to endure the removal of skull fragments from where his frontal lobe was pierced" and " The lag time wasn't even one fourth of a second. But in that time, Accelerator had finished healing Last Order, and at the last moment, he regained his reflection" so the bullet only got a partial hit

again u keep dodging the fact that when she used her ability at full power and affected everyone it still did not destroy clothes accessory etc, by ur logic they would have fallen apart when they got in the range

yes again if we go by her serious part, so we should count accel as serious too, that's why increasing the range leads to a stomp as he just uses any sort of ranged attack to kill her, u said " Then you can increase the range and/or change the Accelerator key, as rushing into melee range is not uncommon for him. " That would mean that he is not serious that why i said the same thing for her, if he is serious and is at range why would he go melee ?

 

[Malox1696]

More specifically ur logic is : A) he will fall unconscious from the hit, false as same would happen for other people

B)he would fall unconscious for the brain damage, false as that part never healed back and was simply outsourced

C)fall unconscious from the pain, true but it will not be instant same as other characters

D) he would fall unconscious cause of blood loss, true but only after he can't control his blood flow anymore

E) his choker would be destroyed, false she does not indirectly affect clothing, accessories,etc that were not damaged before (if we count assembling them as damage clothes, glasses,etc would have been destroyed too but they didn't)