Shin Megami Tensei Revisions

[Morning_Star_TM]

So, i was asking someone in Anime Characters Fight Wiki, and he gave me an interesting scan from Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner.

I took my time translating it, and this is the result:

Scan is here:

Sca.

Translation:

In the case of Sera, the shell was caught in the shell and the diffusion stopped within the EGG, but I expanded much wider and beyond the dimensions. For the fundamental being, the three dimensions were very narrow. It may be a limited, low-dimensional dimension, or even a completely unknown space that goes beyond the concept of dimensions. I also don't know--or rather, have no words to explain. Now that Sera can only speak about the contents of his interaction with God in a sketchy way, and now his existence has converged on a three-dimensional physical body, he can only deal with three-dimensional words and concepts. Can not. More than that. Exceeds the ability of hardware to conform to the laws of physics of this physical world.

Now, judging by the scan, Seraph transcended the concept of dimensions, and that this was the only way to interact with Brahman. Of course, the word 'God' refers to Brahma.

Seraph was the 1 to defeat Brahman, and this gives me the conclusion that the 1 that was talking in that translation was actually Seraph themselves, but only being referred to the person that transcended beyond the concept of dimensions, and even beyond the dimensions.

That would mean that Seraph, Brahman and those who scale to them all are 1-A via this statement.

I will still look for other scans, but for now, i think that this will do.

Those who scale:

YHVH (Shin Megami Tensei) (He is the superior entity of Shin Megami Tensei. Should be given to him at both his avatar and true form, with his demonized form being stronger than his avatar form, but weaker than his true form).

Nanashi (Shin Megami Tensei) (He defeated YHVH at full power).

Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei) (IV Apocalypse only. He assisted in the defeat of YHVH).

The cast of IV Apocalypse (They all assisted in the defeat of YHVH in the Peace Route).

I think there are other people that scale to that as well, but i don't know who else.

For now, i will just lay this scan, and when i find other scans, i will post them here.

 

[Ionliosite]

Said dimensions aren't shown to be infinitely above each other, so disagreed because of what's stated on Tiering System and Tiering System Explanation Page.

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

There is also the statement about being beyond the concept of dimensions if you haven't seen it.

 

[Ionliosite]

Still NOT infinitely above each other. You need to proof each dimension is infinitely above each other.

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

Where is the scan from avatar Turner from specifically? Is that from Quantum Devil saga of whatever?

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

Yes. Volume 5 if memory serves.

 

[MYHERO]

bruh who did u get this scan from?

Zigrain?

I asked him that scan months ago and he never gave it to me. I feel betrayed...

 

[Infiniverse_of_Oblivion]

I mean u r a loser Hero.

Jkjkjkjkjkjk

Anyway,I heard reasons against this recently but not choosing until I get the full picture.Kudos on finding such a straightforward scan @ Morning Star

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

bruh who did u get this scan from?
Zigrain?

I asked him that scan months ago and he never gave it to me. I feel betrayed...

Yes, It was Zigrain. Sorry if it harmed you from the inside.

Also, about what Mr. Ionliosite said:

1-A | Outerverse level: Characters who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy realms or states that fully transcend infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, normally being portrayed as completely external abstractions that lie outside of the applications of spatiotemporal dimensionality as a constant defined by physics on any level, even in relation to infinite or uncountably infinite dimensions, usually by perceiving them as akin to fiction or something similarly insignificant.

However, do note that it is possible for a character to qualify for this rating even if their verse does not have an infinitely-layered or equivalent cosmology, as long as it is either stated, shown or left very obvious that the character in question already bypasses the very nature of such structures altogether, in a way that simply "stacking" more of them logically would not allow one to reach their level of power / size.

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

I mean u r a loser Hero.
Jkjkjkjkjkjk

Anyway,I heard reasons against this recently but not choosing until I get the full picture.Kudos on finding such a straightforward scan @ Morning Star

Thank you sir.

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

bruh who did u get this scan from?
Zigrain?

I asked him that scan months ago and he never gave it to me. I feel betrayed...

He also told me that he doesn't have except some scans that he keeps for himself. It actually took me forever to make him give me this.

But there is another person who told me that he will give me the scans that i want by next weekend after his PC gets repaired.

 

[Ionliosite]

Also, about what Mr. Ionliosite said:

1-A | Outerverse level: Characters who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy realms or states that fully transcend infinitely-layered hierarchies and/or dimensional levels on a conceptual or existential level, normally being portrayed as completely external abstractions that lie outside of the applications of spatiotemporal dimensionality as a constant defined by physics on any level, even in relation to infinite or uncountably infinite dimensions, usually by perceiving them as akin to fiction or something similarly insignificant.

However, do note that it is possible for a character to qualify for this rating even if their verse does not have an infinitely-layered or equivalent cosmology, as long as it is either stated, shown or left very obvious that the character in question already bypasses the very nature of such structures altogether, in a way that simply "stacking" more of them logically would not allow one to reach their level of power / size.

You missed the most important part to my point, as stated on Tiering System: Characters who can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher planes or levels of existence which trivialize everything below them into insignificance', either by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or having a size equivalent to a greater infinity in relation to them.

You need to proof the dimensions on the quote are like this.

 

[Yvel_Atsly]

Besides we can't even scale Quantum Devil Saga to '''Digitial''' Devil Saga. Quantum has no setting or cosmology connection to the games

 

[Eganergo]

It seems like a platonic concept.

 

[Ionliosite]

It seems like a platonic concept.

Platonic concepts aren't 1-A anymore.

 

[MYHERO]

Don't listen to Oblivion he is a personatard. Anyways, the reasoning sounds a lot more sound then I initially thought when I got on this thread however I don't believe the wiki will accept this kind of stuff anymore and it will lead to some more complications.

Firstly, you would need to go over with other japanese speaking people on the site and fact check that your translation is accurate.

Secondly like what Ion stated. Being simply above the concept of dimensions no longer really flies on the wiki. You must prove that the dimensions in the verse have an infinite gap between them. There are scans that blatanly states that dimensions share an infinite gap in SMT IVA but that brings me to the next point.

This novel seems to have a different continuity compared to the games, making this seem a bit non canon. Thus I don't really believe you can scale the other games to that novel even if the scan is legit. So I don't think you can use IVA's scan about the nature of dimensions for the novel and at the same time you cannot use the explanation of being beyond the concept of dimensions to upgrade the game characters with them. Heck even in that other russian wiki I do recall YHVH's profile being split up into two keys. One being a composite, and that is where YHVH's 1-A is at I believe. And composites aren't allowed on the wiki. You can try proving us wrong and showing it has canonical connection, but for the time being it will not fly.

Sorry about that.

 

[Eganergo]

Platonic concepts aren't 1-A anymore.

Really? A lot of verse still relies on that for their 1A reasoning.

 

[MYHERO]

Besides we can't even scale Quantum Devil Saga to Digitial Devil Saga. Quantum has no setting or cosmology connection to the games

When you took so long with ur response you get ninja'd by Yobo

 

[Ionliosite]

Platonic concepts aren't 1-A anymore.

Really? A lot of verse still relies on that for their 1A reasoning.

Because they are outdated and need to be revised. Please read the updated Tiering System and Tiering System Explanation Page for more info.

 

[Infiniverse_of_Oblivion]

Hey!

I'm gonna Shin Megami Tensei 5 News you Hero!

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

Hey!
I'm gonna Shin Megami Tensei 5 News you!

Listening!

 

[MYHERO]

That means he is gonna kill me :T

 

[Eganergo]

Does YHVH (Shin Megami Tensei) brane layer not counted? It is described as more infinite and vaguer.

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

That means he is gonna kill me :T

Me too...

 

[Ionliosite]

Does YHVH (Shin Megami Tensei) brane layer not counted? It is described as more infinite and vaguer.

Oh no, that does count, but that only gets to like High 1-C AT BEST iirc.

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

Does YHVH (Shin Megami Tensei) brane layer not counted? It is described as more infinite and vaguer.

I think that could be counted...

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

Hey!
I'm gonna Shin Megami Tensei 5 News you Hero!

What are the news about SMT V?

 

[Agnaa]

Does YHVH (Shin Megami Tensei) brane layer not counted? It is described as more infinite and vaguer.

Just because one random thing in a verse is described as more infinite does not mean that dimensions in the verse infinitely transcend each other.

 

[MYHERO]

@Eganergo and @Morningstar I already responded to that point. You cannot connect these two together since it doesn't seem to form a canon with each other.

 

[Eganergo]

Just because one random thing in a verse is described as more infinite does not mean that dimensions in the verse infinitely transcend each other.

With the current tiering, it does not matter unless the size is more infinite.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Existing "beyond the concept of dimensions" isn't necessarily 1-A anymore, especially if the quote or the wider context surrounding it doesn't imply that said unknown space also exists beyond all extensions of the concept, so we can only scale based on how many dimensions the verse has.

If the novel is also non-canon, then that's even more damning.

 

[MYHERO]

Hey!
I'm gonna Shin Megami Tensei 5 News you Hero!

What are the news about SMT V?

No it's a joke between me and him. SMT V has no news so we consider the project to be dead. So when he says he is gonna SMT V me, he means he's gonna have me ded :v

 

[Eganergo]

Damn, i bought switch for SMT V. Smh.

 

[Infiniverse_of_Oblivion]

Humans were gonna surpass The Axiom so 9-B at most.

Anyway,I'm not opposed to learning more about offsite 1-A Megami Tensei stuff so it would be appreciated if I could learn more reasons.But right now following the wiki standards I would have to lean in favor of against.

 

[MYHERO]

Humans were gonna surpass The Axiom so 9-B at most.

Literally stealing Neon's already unfunny jokes smh

 

[Eganergo]

Humans were gonna surpass The Axiom so 9-B at most.

Anyway,I'm not opposed to learning more about offsite 1-A Megami Tensei stuff so it would be appreciated if I could learn more reasons.But right now following the wiki standards I would have to lean in favor of against.

This wiki has standards?

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

Hey!
I'm gonna Shin Megami Tensei 5 News you Hero!

What are the news about SMT V?

No it's a joke between me and him. SMT V has no news so we consider the project to be dead. So when he says he is gonna SMT V me, he means he's gonna have me ded :v

But Atlas confirmed the fact that SMT V is not cancelled.

 

[MYHERO]

Does YHVH (Shin Megami Tensei) brane layer not counted? It is described as more infinite and vaguer.

Just because one random thing in a verse is described as more infinite does not mean that dimensions in the verse infinitely transcend each other.

I don't think this whole thing is legit but the scan does refer to dimensional planes tho. It's why YHVH is still tier 1 even with the new tiering system.

 

[MYHERO]

But Atlas confirmed the fact that SMT V is not cancelled.

I know I'm just exaggerating

 

[Infiniverse_of_Oblivion]

Literally stealing Neon's already unfunny jokes smh </div>

Ok Ace Defective.