"Skipping? Stopping? man idek anymore" Hit time skip re-revision

[omegabronic]

Continuation of this thread...............look i know i just changed it like, yesterday, but come on, i couldn't stand around with this inconsistency and just do nothing, i am half reverting it, why? because i just realized how confusingly and nonsensically this ability is, so here we go

It Skips​

Time Skip, as the name suggests, would be the ability to "Skip Time" aka Time Travel, which is entire basis of dimension shifting technique, where he stores the time that didn't pass, because he "skipped" it, and then uses to create his own pocket dimension, that + Vados' statement + the moments where Goku seemingly moved and reacted in the middle of said skip would suffice as proof that it doesn't stop time right......right?

It Stops​

yeah, even with Vados' statement being to negate all other statements prior and after that says that it stops time due to it seemingly being a misconception.............sigh things are not so simple when we see what he does with it, like in this scene i can't find the sub nor the english dub version this scene for the life of me where he......supposedly freezes Goku in his tracks, which he did it again in the end of the fight, so given these 2 very contradictory scenarios......tf should we do?

Screw it, both at the same time​

You heard it right, thank heavens for the "possible" rating option, given the sheer inconsistency that is what is know as Hit's Time Skip, i say we give it both, with Time Stop being a "possible" hax from it, and everyone with resistance to it gaining a possible resistance as well given the inconsistent portrayal of both what it is said to do and what it does

Edit: Another option​

A good summary of what the Time Skip is is here made by @StrymULTRA , basically, things are lot more complicated than we previously assumed, Time Skip seems to be a cocktail of abilities that seem impossible to have a resistance towards, since it also involves a lot of things that just can't be resisted, so the solution would have to be Immeasurable but outlier or a very specific resistance to Time Manip, specifically Hit's Time Skip as nothing similar is in the Wiki to equalized to it, i will still leave the above option for consideration, but this one seems to make enough sense to be more plausible


Extra Bonus +, Hit is not that fast or strong
To not say that i am doing nothing new here, I propose removing this part:

• Goku could barely keep up with Hit by the end of the U6 tournament even with SSBKKx10, yet defeated a Hit who was stated stronger in their second fight with SSJB alone.

From the Conservative multiplier scaling blog, why is that?......quite simple, Hit in NO WAY can scale to Kaioken Goku, let alone 10x Kaioken

First of all, let us all be clear here, Hit's stats DO NOT IMPROVE his power with his AD at all, that much is clearly defined and stated by both him and everyone else, so that should be removed from his AD justification

Second of all............when Goku first activates the Kaioken, Hit gets blitzed HARD Goku literally does variety of movements without Hit being able to even see him at all, and afterwards he sweat bullets after seeing his power slowly rising to 10x, and once it did reached that far......Hit was helpless against it, Goku easily blocks his attack and then proceeds to plumel him without him being able to react at all, with him needing the Time Skip to be able to hit and dodge Goku in every point in their afterwards

Agree:@Maverick_Zero_X

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

This makes sense to me I agree.

 

[Kroneii1]

One thing I don't like about the time skip being just a time stop is the way goku counters the technique at the beginning, if Hit can stop time then how does goku predict where he's going to land?
I also remember whis saying that Hit has the same ability when he sees the time skip.

Edit: If I remember correctly whis referred to the "do over".

 

[Killerdrone123]

Well I agree

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Neutral per now, i will wait for counter arguments

 

[Kroneii1]

I agree btw

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Honestly, this entire topic is a mess.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Honestly at this point I think it may just be better to either be treated as a time stop, or forget this ability ever happened.... Why? This entire thing is a mess....

 

[RenderGK]

honestly need a blog that compiles everything about hit/ and explains in detail the functions of time skip and its variants, such as time stop and others.

neutral for now.

why everything that has to do with the hit his a complete disaster now.

 

[Jaakor48]

One thing I don't like about the time skip being just a time stop is the way goku counters the technique at the beginning, if Hit can stop time then how does goku predict where he's going to land?

Initially hit didn't attack in the middle of time skip, but after it ended, Goku predicted what he'd do thanks to his analytical prediction, he predicted what he'd do and where's he'd be just before he used the timeskip and adjusted for the 0.1secs gap

When he busted out KKx10, he basically just straight up ignored the freeze time and caught up with hit timeskipping to the future ( his outlier immeasurable but also possibly his first resistance to time stop)

After that,hit evolved it to the point that he could now act himself while time was Frozen and the time freeze was strong enough to overcome Goku's earlier resistance which and rhr background turned red

I also remember whis saying that Hit has the same ability when he sees the time skip.

Iirc, he said hit could manipulate time just like he, which gives credence to hits abilities being based on the natural time axis



But a blog probably needs to be made for hit to make things simpler

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It Stops​

yeah, even with Vados' statement being to negate all other statements prior and after that says that it stops time due to it seemingly being a misconception.............sigh things are not so simple when we see what he does with it, like in this scene i can't find the sub nor the english dub version this scene for the life of me where he......supposedly freezes Goku in his tracks, which he did it again in the end of the fight, so given these 2 very contradictory scenarios......tf should we do?

I think it's worth mentioning these two things below in the OP.

The thing @The_Yellow_Topaz wrote before the last CRT closed

TIME SKIP IS TIME STOPPING
All credits to Null

Episode 37
　13:22 | Galactic King: "He might be time-skipping. I've only heard rumors about it myself, but supposedly some people can cause a slight skip in time. I believe it was roughly a 0.1 second skip. Simply put, he can freeze time for everything but himself for 0.1 seconds."
　13:51 | Goku: "Freeze things for 0.1 seconds?"
21:01 | Goku: "You can only freeze time for 0.1 seconds, right?"

ドラゴンボール超, Dragon Ball Super Episode 38

学習 Japanese from ドラゴンボール超 using the LingQ language learning system to learn from content of interest.

www.lingq.com

There is also this website that shows the text in Japanese, and it APPEARS that Galactic King etc say the same thing in the translation of Topaz's answer.

But it seems like he talks about "listening to the rumors", so it depends on how much weight the information coming from him has.
-
-
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In addition to the short description of the hit in the tournament of power, I talk about Time Skip stopping time. At least that's what a casual translation says.

ドラゴンボール超 宇宙サバイバル編 第6宇宙

[挑戦の宇宙] レベルが下から３番目の宇宙。界王神フワ、破壊神シャンパ、天使ヴァドス、戦士 ヒット、フロスト、ボタモ、マゲッタ、キャベ、カリフラ、ケール、Ｄｒロタのご紹介。

www.toei-anim.co.jp

[Credits to @LuffyRuffy46307 for finding this on the site]

this scene i can't find the sub nor the english dub version this scene for the life of me

For this specific scene, there is a website that apparently includes the Japanese text of some Dragon Ball episodes

ドラゴンボール超, Dragon Ball Super Episode 40

学習 Japanese from ドラゴンボール超 using the LingQ language learning system to learn from content of interest.

www.lingq.com

Apparently after Hit does this visual action of freezing Goku, he says the following:

あの 刹那

俺 は 時 とばし を さらに 拡大 し

お前 の 攻撃 を 回避 し た

(DeepLTradutor)
A moment.

I expanded my time skip even further.

I evaded your attack.

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It Skips​

Time Skip, as the name suggests, would be the ability to "Skip Time" aka Time Travel, which is entire basis of dimension shifting technique, where he stores the time that didn't pass, because he "skipped" it, and then uses to create his own pocket dimension, that + Vados' statement + the moments where Goku seemingly moved and reacted in the middle of said skip would suffice as proof that it doesn't stop time right......right?

I didn't find episode 72 with Japanese subtitles, just the part below, which I don't know if it's at the same time that Vados explains the technique.


Anyway, I saw some Japanese blogs putting the name of the episode in Japanese, and it seems like everyone repeats the thing that Time Skip skips time and doesn't stop.

So I think the translation we have is not wrong.

Screw it, both at the same time​

You heard it right, thank heavens for the "possible" rating option, given the sheer inconsistency that is what is know as Hit's Time Skip, i say we give it both, with Time Stop being a "possible" hax from it, and everyone with resistance to it gaining a possible resistance as well given the inconsistent portrayal of both what it is said to do and what it does

I'm neutral, if that's worth anything.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Neutral for now. Gojo’s Infinity seems easier to interpret than this.

 

[TiltedFN]

The thing is, vados statement cannot be ignored because his alternate dimension would not function without hit actually skipping time and storing the time he skips, why can't it just be both? There is literally nothing wrong with that line of reasoning. We know he can store it, stop it, skip it, and even suspend people in it. Its not just time stopping, because some of his other abilities can't function with that logic.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Hit can use time skip for skipping time..and he can also time stop and create other dimensions.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'd definitely make a blog explaining in detail how the Time Skip works, as somehow it managed to be harder to interpret than GER's Return to Zero and KC's Time Erase (mostly also because the Dragon Ball authors are kinda inconsistent at it too), because it's getting stupid to be honest.

 

[RenderGK]

The justification for AD will be changed so that Hit can improve his abilities in battle, like time skip, right?

since AD is also about improving the skills you have, in the middle of the fight.

since hit only improves his abilities and not his statistics.

Although if he develops time stop against Goku, it could also be reactive evolution by gaining new abilities but.

 

[omegabronic]

The thing is, vados statement cannot be ignored because his alternate dimension would not function without hit actually skipping time and storing the time he skips, why can't it just be both? There is literally nothing wrong with that line of reasoning. We know he can store it, stop it, skip it, and even suspend people in it. Its not just time stopping, because some of his other abilities can't function with that logic.

Problem is, it acts like both at the same time, the first time he supposedly "stops" time, it is treated as the same thing with when he used it before on goku, same visual effect, same wording, everything, like, if we had any statement about it having w aplications it would be a thing........but in this case both are treated as the same thing, like, the only thing that Hit says when he first supposedly freezes Goku in time is the same he says when he first advanced his time skip to attack Goku(where Goku move and reacted in the middle of it) he said that he enhanced the "lenght" of his Time Skip, that is all he says.......like, they seem to treat both as the same at the same time

 

[omegabronic]

Initially hit didn't attack in the middle of time skip, but after it ended, Goku predicted what he'd do thanks to his analytical prediction, he predicted what he'd do and where's he'd be just before he used the timeskip and adjusted for the 0.1secs gap

When he busted out KKx10, he basically just straight up ignored the freeze time and caught up with hit timeskipping to the future ( his outlier immeasurable but also possibly his first resistance to time stop)

That can't be since earlier Goku Moved in the middle of the Time Skip multiple times, so it can't be Time Stop else those 2 instances make no sense, but it can't not be time stop or the other 2 instances make no sense......see the problem?

After that,hit evolved it to the point that he could now act himself while time was Frozen and the time freeze was strong enough to overcome Goku's earlier resistance which and rhr background turned red

it happened before that when the background was still the same as the earlier Time Skips

 

[omegabronic]

Neutral for now. Gojo’s Infinity seems easier to interpret than this.

Honestly, this entire topic is a mess.

Since we at least have evidence for only 2 abilities, the best solution imo would be to put both with a "possibly" rating between them, like this
Time Travel, possibly Time Stop ([reasoning for both], altho due to inconsistencies in usage it is hard to say which one the Time Skip does)

 

[Jaakor48]

That can't be since earlier Goku Moved in the middle of the Time Skip multiple times, so it can't be Time Stop else those 2 instances make no sense, but it can't not be time stop or the other 2 instances make no sense......see the problem?

What are you talking about? Goku only moved after it ended until that point, it was KKx10 that he basically just lolnop'd it (that's why I said possibly time stop resistance at that point, as the initial scene could also be just Goku easily reacting to the enhanced timeskip like before)

it happened before that when the background was still the same as the earlier Time Skips

Hit didn't attack Goku in frozen time, we literally see Goku grimacing each time he was hit when hit blitzed him at 0.5s time skip when the background turned red, Goku was literally a Statue until the timeskip ended and all the attacks essentially appeared as one

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Since we at least have evidence for only 2 abilities, the best solution imo would be to put both with a "possibly" rating between them, like this
Time Travel, possibly Time Stop ([reasoning for both], altho due to inconsistencies in usage it is hard to say which one the Time Skip does)

Hit manipulates time in other ways, like using time skipped to the dimension, etc.

So it would be like, "Time manipulation and Time travel (Explanation of Timeskip is also capable of possibly stopping time with the same ability. Rest of explanation of his powers that involve time)

 

[omegabronic]

What are you talking about? Goku only moved after it ended until that point, it was KKx10 that he basically just lolnop'd it (that's why I said possibly time stop resistance at that point, as the initial scene could also be just Goku easily reacting to the enhanced timeskip like before)

Did you look at the examples in the first part of the OP? Goku straight up moves before the Kaioken, first he moved mid skip to block Hit, second he reacted as he was getting attacked in the Middle of the Skip

Hit didn't attack Goku in frozen time, we literally see Goku grimacing each time he was hit when hit blitzed him at 0.5s time skip when the background turned red, Goku was literally a Statue until the timeskip ended and all the attacks essentially appeared as one

And before there is this scene where the Background, wording and everything else is the exact same as the earlier Time Skips.....but this time Goku's frozen, but it is still treated as the same as the time where he wasn't frozen from it

 

[RedReaper]

You should also include the Mob Boss scene, since Hit calls it verbatim Time Stop there. (It’s visually identical to White Time Skip in the ToP when he brings the Mob Boss in, and Red Time Skip from before he brings the Mob Boss in at the END of U6vU7.)

 

[omegabronic]

Hit manipulates time in other ways, like using time skipped to the dimension, etc.

So it would be like, "Time manipulation and Time travel (Explanation of Timeskip is also capable of possibly stopping time with the same ability. Rest of explanation of his powers that involve time)

Yeah but, his clear time stopping way with the cadge is different from his supposed time skip stop, so a differention should be made imo

 

[omegabronic]

You should also include the Mob Boss scene, since Hit calls it verbatim Time Stop there. (It’s visually identical to White Time Skip in the ToP when he brings the Mob Boss in, and Red Time Skip from before he brings the Mob Boss in at the END of U6vU7.)

I think we have enough to get the point across, in the Mob scene he doesn't call it Time Skip, so one could argue, but in the U6 arc the more blatant showings happen.....alongside the inconsistencies

 

[TiltedFN]

You should also include the Mob Boss scene, since Hit calls it verbatim Time Stop there. (It’s visually identical to White Time Skip in the ToP when he brings the Mob Boss in, and Red Time Skip from before he brings the Mob Boss in at the END of U6vU7.)

That was when he used his dimension, he said "time is stopped for everyone but us". And there was literally like no time limit, he could stay in there however long he wanted. That wasn't time skip.

 

[Killerdrone123]

It ain't that deep bro he can do both

How about we give all time based abilities on wiki to hit

 

[omegabronic]

It ain't that deep bro he can do both

Problem is......the Time Skip moments where it supposedly stops time are.......treated as doing the same as when it clearly doesn't stop time......

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'll be real, real honest with y'all on this topic, because it's explained like shit in canon, so I'll try my best to explain this, using also this video as basis (which imo did a clever job explaining how Hit's time skip actually works, with all the scans needed as well).

Basically, we all know that Dragon Ball for some reason mixes up both Dimensional Travel and Time Travel in the same ability sometimes (Trunks' time travels being the best example of this), and Hit is one of these cases.

Basically, you guys know how King Crimson's Time Erase works, right? Hit's Time Skip works under a fundamentally similar, yet very different basis.



If you see the video above, Diavolo is "cutting" away a piece of the timeline (in his case up to 10 seconds), so that whatever action happens during the erased time does not truly happen, thus leaving just the results.

Hit's case instead is a hella different. Instead of straight up erasing time like Diavolo, he instead "stores" away said time (0.1 seconds here) to form his pocket dimension. With this ability, Hit is able to essentially do whatever he wants to the physical world while being safe in his dimension (hence explaining why Goku wasn't able to hit Hit during the assassination arc). In the pocket dimension, time is stopped compared to the rest of the world, as said from Hit to the mafia boss, explaining why Hit is able to do whatever he wants while the rest of the world is visibly stopped compared to him, and why Goky has initially countered the ability through simply predicting what would Hit do during said Skip.

The ability is to essentially just "skipping" through the timeline, allowing him to be the only one who can act during the time he's stored while the rest of the world is skipped through.

What do I think this is then? A mix of 4 abilities:

1. Pocket Reality Manipulation
2. Dimensional Travel
3. Time Travel
4. Time Stop

How would Goku resist this? With such a cocktail of abilities, I only think that Immeasurable speed is the answer, as you can't resist Space-Time Travel with just Time Stop resistance after all, meaning that I'd simply go back to the "It's Immeasurable speed but it's outlier" answer.

Honestly, this entire topic is a mess.

Neutral for now. Gojo’s Infinity seems easier to interpret than this.

What do you think of the suggestion above, lads?

 

[Chariot190]

Basically, you guys know how King Crimson's Time Erase works, right?

95% of JoJo fans don't even comprehend how it works for some dumb reason

 

[Kroneii1]

Let's upgrade goku to outerversal and forget about this.

 

[RenderGK]

Let's make hit have space-time manipulation with everything hit's time skip can do.


and for Goku resistance to these skills, since in the rematch Goku states that Hit's time skip skills will not work again, and is accepted by Hit.

even the dimension that hit creates with time skip is destroyed by Goku

 

[RedReaper]

95% of JoJo fans don't even comprehend how it works for some dumb reason

That’s because Araki added a whole bunch of rules that don’t make sense, such as King Crimson not being able to tamper with other Fates, (allowing bullets to phase through him), but also allowing him to blind others with his own blood. Or like how despite being “erased,” time still tangibly passes and can be noticed, and yet it was treated like a time stop causing no motions in opponents.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Let's make hit have space-time manipulation with everything hit's time skip can do.


and for Goku resistance to these skills, since in the rematch Goku states that Hit's time skip skills will not work again, and is accepted by Hit.

even the dimension that hit creates with time skip is destroyed by Goku

Sounds like a reasonable approach.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Let's make hit have space-time manipulation with everything hit's time skip can do.

Problem is that you can't resist that because Time Travel is involved kek.

 

[RenderGK]

well, but even in the narrative the other hit abilities are resisted by Goku and destroyed.

let's eliminate time travel then

Problem is that you can't resist that because Time Travel is involved kek.

 

[Chariot190]

That’s because Araki added a whole bunch of rules that don’t make sense, such as King Crimson not being able to tamper with other Fates, (allowing bullets to phase through him), but also allowing him to blind others with his own blood. Or like how despite being “erased,” time still tangibly passes and can be noticed, and yet it was treated like a time stop causing no motions in opponents.

Case and point

 

[StrymULTRA]

well, but even in the narrative the other hit abilities are resisted by Goku and destroyed.

Considering how shitty this is, then I'll suggest a MINOR Resistance to Space-Time Manipulation, and ONLY to Hit's applications because of how unique this is compared to others, to the point it'd be straight up incompatible with other cases like Dio's Time Stop.

 

[RenderGK]

I don't understand where the minor resistance to space-time manipulation comes from, since hit manipulates time and space with time skip to be able to use time stop or time cage, or its time dimension.

and good Goku resists the time skip/time stop.

I see it as a complete resistance to time stop/time skip

Considering how shitty this is, then I'll suggest a MINOR Resistance to Space-Time Manipulation, and ONLY to Hit's applications because of how unique this is compared to others, to the point it'd be straight up incompatible with other cases like Dio's Time Stop.

 

[TiltedFN]

I'll be real, real honest with y'all on this topic, because it's explained like shit in canon, so I'll try my best to explain this, using also this video as basis (which imo did a clever job explaining how Hit's time skip actually works, with all the scans needed as well).

Basically, we all know that Dragon Ball for some reason mixes up both Dimensional Travel and Time Travel in the same ability sometimes (Trunks' time travels being the best example of this), and Hit is one of these cases.

Basically, you guys know how King Crimson's Time Erase works, right? Hit's Time Skip works under a fundamentally similar, yet very different basis.



If you see the video above, Diavolo is "cutting" away a piece of the timeline (in his case up to 10 seconds), so that whatever action happens during the erased time does not truly happen, thus leaving just the results.

Hit's case instead is a hella different. Instead of straight up erasing time like Diavolo, he instead "stores" away said time (0.1 seconds here) to form his pocket dimension. With this ability, Hit is able to essentially do whatever he wants to the physical world while being safe in his dimension (hence explaining why Goku wasn't able to hit Hit during the assassination arc). In the pocket dimension, time is stopped compared to the rest of the world, as said from Hit to the mafia boss, explaining why Hit is able to do whatever he wants while the rest of the world is visibly stopped compared to him, and why Goky has initially countered the ability through simply predicting what would Hit do during said Skip.

The ability is to essentially just "skipping" through the timeline, allowing him to be the only one who can act during the time he's stored while the rest of the world is skipped through.

What do I think this is then? A mix of 4 abilities:

1. Pocket Reality Manipulation
2. Dimensional Travel
3. Time Travel
4. Time Stop

How would Goku resist this? With such a cocktail of abilities, I only think that Immeasurable speed is the answer, as you can't resist Space-Time Travel with just Time Stop resistance after all, meaning that I'd simply go back to the "It's Immeasurable speed but it's outlier" answer.


What do you think of the suggestion above, lads?

oh nah bro linked surfbone?