SM Universe Revision

[AsterReal]

Well, what exactly is the OP going to change on the cosmology page of the verse? He only specified which parts he would remove. He never said what exactly he would write to replace what he removed.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

Once the changes have been clarified I will personally enact them. I already have a replacements for it, I have been working on fixing the page for a bit in the background.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

It includes alternate universes, because the star seeds of alternate universes come from the galaxy cauldron and return to it. This is the area that processes death for the entire cosmology.

The cosmology blog only mentions the Galaxy Cauldron governing a star seed from a single alternate dimension (Tau Star System). Other than that, the only evidence for it governing the star seeds of the whole cosmology is vague statements for it having dominion over "everything," which is rendered absolutely moot by the fact that these are organized around at least several statements for the cauldron spawning all the star seeds of the galaxy or possibly universe, which means "everything" in context means everything in some limited dominion, be it the galaxy or universe, alongside the single alternate dimension you've proven that the cauldron also rules over.

Also, enough with this one to one literal translation business. Japanese is a highly contextual language. The story would make no sense if you translate word to word and leave it at that.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/379931914_An_Exploration_of_Japanese_Cultural_Dynamics_Communication_Practices_through_Social_Pragmatics

The translation is official and approved and authorized by everyone with creative control of the manga. The translators are not translating in a vacuum like your online translators translating a cropped paged. They know the story, and all the elements that come with it. They're also relying on the context of the scene and overall story. And can ask questions to editors and creatives for clarification. I hold more stock in their translation.

I understand if your argument was this English text contradicts what is being said in the overall story, but it doesn't. There are no other graveyards.

Same like with your pocket dimension argument, it relies on ignoring the art, context, and over arching story.

This section honestly bewildered me. So let me get this straight... when I first asked Japanese speakers simple questions like "is this singular, or plural," you complained by accusing me of using "leading questions" since I didn't just ask for a direct translation (which is funny, because one of my translations did come from me directly asking for a translation), yet now that I flat-out ask for a translation, you still have an issue. Everyone knows that Japanese is drastically more contextual, I guarantee you that I know more about its grammar conventions than you. As Vietthai said, your argument against me citing the raw text and using so-called "one to one" translations, is essentially that the default assumption when an english translator inserts text that wasn't there originally is that the translator had "hidden/magic knowledge of secret context" rather than, I don't know... that a mistranslation was made???

No one is trying to tier the graveyard. We are mentioning the implications of it. A never ending graveyard is filled with never ending dead stars. A finite cosmology cannot support a never ending amount of stars.

I said the scans said there are countless and innumerable amount of graves. I didn't say the scans said there are infinite number of graves.

By this same logic, any infinitely expanding universe is High 3-A because it needs to be that large in order to support space that will eventually become infinite after infinite time, which is definitely not how we treat universe size. It's not even worth mentioning the "infinitely expanding" argument in the blog, in my opinion. Your argument was that tombstones stay while the butterflies that create them endlessly come and go. However, each butterfly corresponds to a dead planet or star. These tombstones should be made of some kind of stone (simple default assumption, especially when the butterflies are representations of the fragments of those planets/stars), so it would take those tombstones maybe millions of years to weather down on average. In contrast, the lifespan of a star is billions to trillions of years, while the lifespan of a planet (hard to define, tbh) is in the billions of years. Ergo, I'd argue that far more tombstones break down and free up space compared to the new stars or planets that arrive at a given time, so the size of this graveyard is still unremarkable overall.

The proposed changes has been accepted already by more than enough staffs. There is no reason to wait over disagreements or explainations. What has been accepted can be applied.

After thinking about it, we might be one vote short on the proposed changes to the cosmology that would result from this downgrade. If possible, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The proposed changes has been accepted already by more than enough staffs. There is no reason to wait over disagreements or explainations. What has been accepted can be applied.

The downgrade was accepted, yes, but not the full changes for the blog, nor which characters are gonna get affected by this. This also needs to be included here and discuss alternatives for them.

 

[Mbpoops]

The cosmology blog only mentions the Galaxy Cauldron governing a star seed from a single alternate dimension (Tau Star System). Other than that, the only evidence for it governing the star seeds of the whole cosmology is vague statements for it having dominion over "everything," which is rendered absolutely moot by the fact that these are organized around at least several statements for the cauldron spawning all the star seeds of the galaxy or possibly universe, which means "everything" in context means everything in some limited dominion, be it the galaxy or universe, alongside the single alternate dimension you've proven that the cauldron also rules over.

Ngl i personally wouldnt even include the universe in this since the galaxy cauldron only spawns in galaxies (its in the name man) and creates the stars for the galaxies. When one dies out a new one spawns in a different galaxy nothing abt a universe seems to be mentioned in context of the galaxy cauldron to my knowledge

 

[AsterReal]

Ngl i personally wouldnt even include the universe in this since the galaxy cauldron only spawns in galaxies (its in the name man) and creates the stars for the galaxies. When one dies out a new one spawns in a different galaxy nothing abt a universe seems to be mentioned in context of the galaxy cauldron to my knowledge

Just because it's called Galaxy Cauldron doesn't mean it's limited to the galaxy; that's just a fallacy of name. The power of the Cauldron created beings that can affect all of space-time beyond the Main Universe, and the Cauldron itself created the Star Seed of another dimension/universe.

 

[Mbpoops]

Just because it's called Galaxy Cauldron doesn't mean it's limited to the galaxy; that's just a fallacy of name. The power of the Cauldron created beings that can affect all of space-time beyond the Main Universe, and the Cauldron itself created the Star Seed of another dimension/universe.

is there scans for this

 

[AsterReal]

is there scans for this

The second, third, fourth, and fifth arcs.

In the second arc, one of the aspects of Chaos, Death Phantom, can manipulate space-time and, with enough power, ruler the universe. The power of the Evil Black Crystal of Nemesis (a planet created by the Galaxy Cauldron) can generate disturbances in it.



In the third arc, Pharaon 90, another aspect of Chaos, crossed from the Tau Star System (another dimension) to the Main Universe and used his power to merge his world with the Main Universe.



In the fourth arc, Queen Nehellenia, another aspect of Chaos, can manipulate the gates of the space-time corridor to seal the entrance and exit of the Main Universe, i.e., time travel and dimensional travel. And Sailor Pluto specified that Nehellenia was disturbing space-time.



In the fifth arc, Chaos creates a disturbance in space-time within the corridor and plans to take Sailor Moon's power (inherited from the Galaxy Cauldron) and usurp the Cauldron's place as "the ruling star of the Universe."



Even if the name only says "Galaxy," the Galaxy Cauldron has evidence of reach beyond the galaxy level.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The cosmology blog only mentions the Galaxy Cauldron governing a star seed from a single alternate dimension (Tau Star System). Other than that, the only evidence for it governing the star seeds of the whole cosmology is vague statements for it having dominion over "everything," which is rendered absolutely moot by the fact that these are organized around at least several statements for the cauldron spawning all the star seeds of the galaxy or possibly universe, which means "everything" in context means everything in some limited dominion, be it the galaxy or universe, alongside the single alternate dimension you've proven that the cauldron also rules over.

No. We’re not doing this. The wiki already accepts the cauldron as being the source of everything. Go make a crt thread to change that.

The entire cosmos comes directly from the cauldron via the cosmos seed. You need to prove the existence are things that do not come from the cauldron.

By this same logic, any infinitely expanding universe is High 3-A because it needs to be that large in order to support space that will eventually become infinite after infinite time, which is definitely not how we treat universe size. It's not even worth mentioning the "infinitely expanding" argument in the blog, in my opinion. Your argument was that tombstones stay while the butterflies that create them endlessly come and go. However, each butterfly corresponds to a dead planet or star. These tombstones should be made of some kind of stone (simple default assumption, especially when the butterflies are representations of the fragments of those planets/stars), so it would take those tombstones maybe millions of years to weather down on average. In contrast, the lifespan of a star is billions to trillions of years, while the lifespan of a planet (hard to define, tbh) is in the billions of years. Ergo, I'd argue that far more tombstones break down and free up space compared to the new stars or planets that arrive at a given time, so the size of this graveyard is still unremarkable overall.

The butterflies are souls. They’re also literally made of fire. Arguing that these gravestones which are supernatural in nature and appear magically behave like normal matter is silly. You need to show evidence that these gravestones break down over time.

Your entire arguments are coming up with random unfounded scenarios and also at the same time telling me that the text needs to state everything literally, and then double explain the literal meaning ie. “everything doesn’t mean everything unless the story explicitly states that everything means everything”

 

[Reiner04]

After thinking about it, we might be one vote short on the proposed changes to the cosmology that would result from this downgrade. If possible, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Looks fine to me.

 

[Vietthai96]

Looks fine to me.

I also agree with Profectus here

 

[Mbpoops]

The second, third, fourth, and fifth arcs.

In the second arc, one of the aspects of Chaos, Death Phantom, can manipulate space-time and, with enough power, ruler the universe. The power of the Evil Black Crystal of Nemesis (a planet created by the Galaxy Cauldron) can generate disturbances in it.



In the third arc, Pharaon 90, another aspect of Chaos, crossed from the Tau Star System (another dimension) to the Main Universe and used his power to merge his world with the Main Universe.



In the fourth arc, Queen Nehellenia, another aspect of Chaos, can manipulate the gates of the space-time corridor to seal the entrance and exit of the Main Universe, i.e., time travel and dimensional travel. And Sailor Pluto specified that Nehellenia was disturbing space-time.



In the fifth arc, Chaos creates a disturbance in space-time within the corridor and plans to take Sailor Moon's power (inherited from the Galaxy Cauldron) and usurp the Cauldron's place as "the ruling star of the Universe."



Even if the name only says "Galaxy," the Galaxy Cauldron has evidence of reach beyond the galaxy level.

Fairs

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

For my case, I'm basically neutral with the graveyard stuff, which is why I haven't added anything until this point. So with Vietthai and Reiner's evaluation, I suppose we can move on.

From what I see, we just need to compile the list of characters currently having any scaling to the High 3-A universe stuff, and what they are going to be downgraded to. If there's nothing currently set for scaling besides the infinite universe stuff, we can rate them as unknown and apply the Outdated template.

 

[Mbpoops]

Wouldnt they just go to 3A? If they scaled to the infinite universe which we now know is finite it would just be 3A then no?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Wouldnt they just go to 3A? If they scaled to the infinite universe which we now know is finite it would just be 3A then no?

I saw a character mentioned in the thread that had their speed scaling to the infinite universe. Giving them a speed rating with this downgrade requires us to discuss the specific feat and whether a calc is needed.

These nuanced cases require discussion. Just going "it's now 3-A" it's not enough.

 

[Mbpoops]

I saw a character mentioned in the thread that had their speed scaling to the infinite universe. Giving them a speed rating with this downgrade requires us to discuss the specific feat and whether a calc is needed.

These nuanced cases require discussion. Just going "it's now 3-A" it's not enough.

Aaaah i see my apologies forgot abt speed

 

[AsterReal]

I saw a character mentioned in the thread that had their speed scaling to the infinite universe. Giving them a speed rating with this downgrade requires us to discuss the specific feat and whether a calc is needed.

These nuanced cases require discussion. Just going "it's now 3-A" it's not enough.

Actually, I think that profile is outdated. Before establishing immeasurable speed, the verse had infinite speed. The feat in question is Sailor Moon launching attacks through time. And other characters adapting to her.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Fair enough. If the only things to be removed are the infinite statements, downgrade may proceed.

 

[AsterReal]

Massively FTL+, with Immeasurable combat and attack speed (Released the light of the Silver Crystal in civilian form which lit up all of space and time that's stated to be infinite, as well as reaching Hades'/Sailor Pluto's underworld which has no concept of time or distance[18] and the rifts in space-time[19]; comparable to Black Lady and Death Phantom)

So, only need to remove the part that says space-time is infinite. AP's statements don't use the infinite universe as justification.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

And anywhere else where it's mentioned, yeah

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Helios_(Sailor_Moon)

Speed: Massively FTL+ with Infinite combat speed (Comparable if not faster than second arc Usagi having spread an attack through out the infinite universe)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Silver_Crystal_(Sailor_Moon)

Speed: Possibly Infinite attack speed (The energy of the Silver Crystal extended throughout the space time)

1st downgrade

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Comparable if not faster than second arc Usagi)

2nd downgrade

Speed: Possibly Massively FTL+ attack speed (The energy of the Silver Crystal extended throughout the space time)

If no one has an issue.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Looks fine to me.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I made the last required changes, this thread can likely be closed now.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Would you please update the cosmology blog to reflect the accepted changes of the thread? @HenshinIntervention

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Would you please update the cosmology blog to reflect the accepted changes of the thread? @HenshinIntervention

The cosmology blog was turned into a page in the all purpose thread. You can find it here.

I made the last required changes, this thread can likely be closed now.