Smash Initiation - Steve vs. Roy

[Jinsye]

Steve's keys are still shit but I can use them until revision threads are allowed! Both are High 8-C with speed =

The Player (Minecraft): 0

Roy (Fire Emblem): 0

 

[Moritzva]

**** you I'm making Steve Low 7-C.

 

[Jinsye]

**** you I'm making Steve Low 7-C.

CRTs are on lockdown nerd

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Roy starts with?

 

[Armorchompy]

He starts with Sword I'm pretty sure

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

What is ap of roy?

 

[Daddybrawl]

Steve is at a good 1276360000 joules (0.3051 tons of TNT) with his ap in this key, alongside 14,784,000,000 joules (3.533461 tons of tnt) with his Dura.

Roy seems to be at 13122596978.4 Joules (or 3.14 Tons of TNT.) with his AP, alongside the same number for his Dura.
So Roy certainly has an AP advantage, but Steve’s more durable.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Steve has potions to amp up and golden apples? what amount?

 

[Daddybrawl]

Anyway, Steve likely has this. This key has access to the good stuff- summoning the Golems, Splash and Normal Potions, TNT. Combined with the fact that Steve has a type 9 Immortality where he constantly comes back, and while Steve is quite lackluster in the AP department, he’s got the Hax to pull through.
Several potions ignore conventional durability, such as Poison or Decay, and while Roy can dodge, they have an area of effect that only ensures the chances of landing one. Potions of Slowness will slow Roy’s movements to a crawl, very useful in a speed equal match. The chances of starting off with a Golem is low, but in PvP you normally start out with Potions or TNT anyways. And given the fact that you can carry several at a time, means he won’t run out of potions anytime soon.

My vote’s on Steve, for Hax, Versatility, and Immortality.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Steve has potions to amp up and golden apples? what amount?

I do assume it’s however many you can carry. There’s not really a set amount listed, as this is a Player Character of course.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

ok so, steve takes this for the reasons above, along with the fact that if he took positions of speed and strength he could eventually outpace Roy and burn him with lava or fire enchantment.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Doesn’t Roy have an edge in the canon skill department?

 

[Daddybrawl]

Likely. But he doesn’t have much against the Summoning/Hax/Durability Negation/Status Effect department. This makes the battle a battle of Brute Force against Versatility- and since Steve both has the Range advantage, the Durability advantage, and the Hax advantage, i can say 7/10 times he’d probably take this.

 

[Armorchompy]

Isn't it a stomp, 'cause of immortality? In this key Roy doesn't have anything that can deal with it, and incapping someone when your only weapon is a sword is pretty difficult.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Not really. Mainly because Steve drops everything he has after respawning. Once he doesn’t have anything, Roy holds both a range and AP advantage, and combined with likely a Skill advantage in fact. This all meaning he wins via ‘Opponent can’t do anything to win for 24 hours’ wincon. If this were a battle to the death, however, this would indeed be a stomp in Steve’s favor.

to note: without his Armor, Steve’s Dura drops heavily, from 3.55 Tons of TNT to .305 Tons, meaning Roy’s 3.14 tons severely outclass him and is well within one-shot range, I believe.

 

[Armorchompy]

True, so immortality is almost a non-factor. Then I wonder if Roy's superior combat advantages are actually beaten so easily by Steve's inventory- I mean, Steve's gotta actually use his items, and that's difficult to do while you're trying to defend yourself from someone stronger and more skilled than you in a swordfight. It's also worth mentioning, Roy does have healing through Vulneraries, if we count that- not sure why we wouldn't.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Vulnaries? You mean the Sword of Seals? That’s only for Roy’s 6-A Key, which, well, should be obviously disallowed.

 

[Armorchompy]

Vulneraries are a basic Fire Emblem item, which heal 10 HP when used. You have them from the tutorial of the game. I believe this game also has Antidotes, which very obviously deal with poison.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Hm. None of that’s listed on his profile, and especially not on his Standard Equipment.

Anyways, as for the items thing- the problem is that Steve has the Range advantage. Splash Potions are activated just by tossing them, and lingering potions are the same but stay there. Yeah, Speed’s equal, and Roy can dodge, but they also have an AoE. A proper Decay, Poison, or Harm potion should bypass conventional durability, with Decay causing you to wither and rot away. There’s also slowing, Steve can drink a Regen potion or Turtle Master potion while Roy charges, and even the possibility of him using a shield, which I missed- and Shields scale to the Wither, no selling attacks of at least 8-B AP.

edit: In case you didn’t know, SBA means characters start out at the max Range, with a max of 60 meters or so. This means they start a few meters away, as Steve easily has more than a few meters of Ranged attacks.

 

[Armorchompy]

I know, and it's just occured to me that they are, indeed, a thing that is part of the characters' movesets- Of course I can't make a CRT for it at the moment, nor do I know whether it would be accepted or not, so I couldn't really blame ya for not wanting to count them in this fight. But, uh, pinky promise, I am not making this up.

As for that, I do agree it's something that ***** Roy over, but would Steve really use them? I mean, it's not like he has any semblance of a canon personality afaik, but would a player really use potions on a random enemy at first? If he does, I do believe he wins most of the time, but if he attempts to beat them in a melee fight- which to my very limited MC experience is what you usually try first, and once locked in direct combat I don't think Roy'll leave him enough time to withdraw and try and use items.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Oh lord. If your first bet is to use Melee attacks, you clearly haven’t stepped into the Meta of Minecraft PVP. Explosives, Potions, and Armor are your best bets there. Pretty much everyone starts off the battle with drinking a Regen potion or throwing something at their enemies, if they’re not lighting TNT at your feet or placing some Obsidian so they can light up an End Crystal.

However, as a Player Character, there’s no way to tell a real first move. And with such a versatile move set, it really comes down to ‘How many Wincons do they have vs How many end up with them losing. It’s looking here like they have more Wincons than Roy does.

 

[Armorchompy]

It's less the amount of wincons and more the probability of using their wincons- If I had to guess, advanced PVP meta isn't exactly the core of this sandbox game, and even then that is against fights you know will be very tough, while in here we don't really know how seriously Steve will consider this random enemy- not to say that they won't lead with those, but I don't think it's guaranteed.

 

[Daddybrawl]

As the nature of being a Sandbox game, it’s important to know that it’s impossible to know what a characters first move is. It’s a Player Character. The choices are endless. Heck, Steve could sit there crouching with a shield up and just not fight for all we know. That’s why it’s important to know the amount of Wincons vs The amount of ways to lose (Losecons?). And there are a lot of ways for Steve to win.

 

[Armorchompy]

Fair enough, but I do think that the possibility that Steve goes in for a melee attack is definitely relevant- and that's basically a win for Roy. Overall I do agree Steve wins if Roy has no items, but it's still worth pointing out.

 

[Daddybrawl]

The problem with Melee Attack = Win is that Steve can do any number of things before that. Potions, Bows and Arrows, potentially enchanted weapons or bows and arrows, he could even summon a Snow Golem or Iron Golem. If he has a shield, Melee isn’t even a wincon anymore, with 8-B, likely 7-C Durability to protect him. Overall, pretty much anything except using a melee attack will result in a win for Steve.

 

[Armorchompy]

True, true- though I do think Roy can eventually get around a Shield, no matter its durability, via superior skill.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Superior skill is also iffy. This is the guy who freed a dimension from a Tyrant Dragon with some armor, arrows and a sword, potentially less or more than that. He can defeat waves upon waves of raiding illagers easily. Meanwhile, Roy is an expert tactician, and easily able to threaten several trained swordsman on his own. Neither is anything to scoff at.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah, but Roy does have formal training, and so do the enemies he faces (some of them with decades of it), which is an advantage.

 

[Jinsye]

I don't think defending against Roy's attacks would be a problem. Shields being Low 7-C and all.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, he just has to be able to get past his defenses, a shield's durability is still only good for the blows you actually block with it. It can be High 8-C, Low 7-C or High 3-A, but history teaches us that people holding a shield are not immune from being stabbed.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Steve backscales from 3.53 tons, Roy upscales from 3.14 tons, I think Roy would have the AP advantage though not by too much.

Dunno much about Roy so I'm going off of the profile... Roy really doesn't bring anything to the table in his High 8-C key, he's literally just a swordsman. Steve should have his fair share of battles by iron tier, so he should be skilled in swordsmanship as well to keep up with Roy.

And since swordsmanship is all Roy brings to the table, he's in some real trouble. Assuming the scenarios where the fight stays in melee and their swordsmanship experience is comparable, Roy's AP advantage isn't guaranteed to help him against someone like Steve's hilariously enormous lifting strength advantage, along with s shield that stands unphased by at least 8-B attacks. On top of that, Steve has a massive Mid-level regen rate at his peak physical condition, and it's perfectly possible to have golden apples during the Iron tier stage of Minecraft, increasing his already large natural healing advantage. Potion use will be unlikely, since Steve will only have gotten potions from looting places (in order for Steve to have his own personal custom potions, he needs to craft a nether portal and find a nether fortress to farm blaze powder. Not only will you need a diamond pickaxe to make a nether portal the official way, but in a nether fortress diamonds are a fairly common loot to find, implying Steve would be diamond tier at that point). Therefore, the amount of actual potions Steve will use in the game are more improbable than anything, and potions shouldn't be a reliable wincon.

Iron Golems and Snow Golems only attack entities considered hostile. They are not slaves to Steve and they will not fight for him.

Ender pearls would be useful if used strategically, considering the damage they do early on without a reliable source of protection and feather falling enchants.

Honestly, the only reliable source of weapons Steve would have at this time is a sword, an axe, a shield, bow and arrows, and flint and steel.

That being said, I'll give it to Steve due to his physical stats making it too difficult for Roy to overwhelm Steve, despite his AP advantage. He can recover from damage quickly, unlike Roy, and on top of that, Steve has the range advantage with bow shots, giving him a good percentage of wincons should he choose to fight range, which he can at any time with the use of enderpearls. Those enderpearls can also help with temporarily getting out of the heat of battle to recover with golden apples if necessary.

Steve for Regen and Versatility.

 

[00potato]

I mean Roy is far better trained then anything Steve has faced. He is mostly just fighting mindless goons. I am pretty sure as a fire emblem protagonist Roy fights with and against professional armies so Steve gets smashed in CQC.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

It's also in the possibility for Steve to fight against Zombies with swords, skeletons and drowned with tridents and bows, and most importantly pillagers, who can wield axes and crossbows. He has experience both in the melee and ranged department, and pillagers are not exactly mindless goons.

I'm not saying that Steve is a better combatant, but I'm gonna need some more explanation and evidence that he's going to be badly stomped in combat enough for it to invalidate me saying that Steve is comparable.

 

[00potato]

I know but are pillagers officially trained soldiers or goons with axes? Depends on that.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

They've been able to trap and restrain iron golems, they're an assembled army that constantly goes on patrols and the likes, they've shown capability to know how to get around shields and the likes (actually outright disabling shields in-game), they have their own pillage outposts and the likes so they're not a dumb civilization by any means, etc. It'd be more of an assumption to say that they're not trained in some sort of combat aspect.

 

[00potato]

Guess that’s fair. Voting Steve via close enough skill and good items.

 

[PuasLuisZX]

I think that I bring that on a previous thread, but Roy's profile is too outdated even with his most recent upgrades. This is due the multiples weapons Roy can carry in the battlefield that is missing in his actual profile that allows many changes in terms of overall sustain (Runesword which allows Roy to recover HP after making contact), poison (in Poison Sword that can only be cured via posions and is inflicted via contact) , range options (in Light Brand which can go toe to toe with magical damage and arrows from higher range distances than Steve) and counters to Steve 8-B shield in being able to amplificate the strenght and damage due effective class type. Again, even if this change should be made on a CTR, due the recent announcements, this isn't any different from characters profiles of Marth or Ike, which has the same argument and reasoning.

Also, I have to heavily disagree on Steve skill and strategy being even close to Roy's due the fact that Roy is an adept on the battlefield and strategy managment despite his young age, being able to command an army against multiple soldiers that had far higher experience on the battlefiled, years of perfectioning their respectives techniques and being highly competent in battle, let alone that Roy was outnumbered both in numbers and experience despite both being on similar fields. Literally all, Steve has in these two departments over Roy is survival skill and experience which isn't enough to outlast Roy.

 

[Daddybrawl]

Effective Class Types likely isn’t combat applicable for the same reason we don’t say Rock-Types from Pokemon have increased damage against someone like Portgas D. Ace from One Piece, despite Rock Types having many Rock-Moves and Ace being made of fire. Which is to say, those are weaknesses/strengths explicitly for Fire Emblem, because otherwise you get people like one of the Links being weak to Sword-Based attacks, when it’s clearly not. If anything, FE Advantages are likely just being skilled at taking down foes who employ certain strategies or weapons.

 

[Jinsye]

Steve's shield is Low 7-C anyways so like

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Also, I have to heavily disagree on Steve skill and strategy being even close to Roy's due the fact that Roy is an adept on the battlefield and strategy managment despite his young age, being able to command an army against multiple soldiers that had far higher experience on the battlefiled, years of perfectioning their respectives techniques and being highly competent in battle, let alone that Roy was outnumbered both in numbers and experience despite both being on similar fields. Literally all, Steve has in these two departments over Roy is survival skill and experience which isn't enough to outlast Roy.

(Disclaimer: I'm ignoring the first part of your comment since that's not currently in the profile, I know nothing about the game, and it seems to be countered by @Daddybrawl)

Patrols and raids cause Steve to normally fight against a trained group of fighters alone.

Commanding an army is impressive, but commanding an army is different from fighting. You're comparing checkers to chess. Being good at strategy doesn't mean being good at combat.

So when removing that out of the equation, it seems that both characters have been able to fight outnumbered against trained individuals. Of course, there's more belief to Roy being the better combatant with an actual defining level of training that his enemies went through according to you, but nothing saying Steve cannot be too far behind due to having the skills to fight outnumbered as well.

And still: lifting strength, shield, and regen. Roy's not bypassing Steve's lifting strength, which means he's not gonna manage to steal the shield or anything from Steve, and any minor damage that would normally take down a man would not take down Steve due to being able to fight and regen with arrows piercing his skull.

Edit: The 8-B Key for the shield comes from no-selling attacks from boss mobs, each of whom can super casually break multiple dozens of obsidian and netherite at a time, and those two blocks can no sell an explosion worth 38.5 tons of TNT. Just the start of the scaling chain is 11 times above Roy's caliber, so I'm not too sure about Roy getting past the shield by any AP tactics.