SMT Revisions 2.0

[Elizhaa]

Yobobojojo, thanks!

The event title is :

JP's Doctor

 

[Elizhaa]

Also, the Protagonist should have information analysis because in verse they can see the strength and weakness of demons, humans, and other beings.

 

[Elizhaa]

All Protagonists should probability manipulation as various abilties they have reward them them abitity

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Sounds about right

 

[Elizhaa]

Our good pal Raidou could sure use an update. Dante as well.

I added them. Raidou's tier got the update since he beat Lucifer who is now at a higher tier.

Dante's tier also got updated since he is comparable to True Demon Demi-fiend who is a higher tier as well

 

[Elizhaa]

I found a High 1-C statement from Devil Survivor 2: https://youtu.be/OSB7R4tXP6g?t=29961

It's is from Chief Doubt's event

 

[DMB_1]

About what you just posted:

1) I am subscribed to that Youtuber

2) I have never seen such a long video ever in my life

3) I have never seen so many ads in a video ever in my life

Now, actually something relevant and important:

4) To my knowledge, we don't treat String Theory (which seems to be what the game is referring to) as High 1-C on this wiki.

 

[Elizhaa]

About what you just posted:
4) To my knowledge, we don't treat String Theory (which seems to be what the game is referring to) as High 1-C on this wiki.

It is a case by case basis judgment. Sometimes, it is treated as High 1-C.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Also

Should we add Skills attainable through fusion to demons?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I also may or may not have found something which implies that demon skills like Drain and Reflect are higher dimensional

 

[DMB_1]

Also
Should we add Skills attainable through fusion to demons?

I mean, don't we already give all Status Effects to pretty much any demon?

 

[Elizhaa]

About the list of skills attainable through fusion to demons - I am not certain and the list. Is it about the racial skills to be specific?


Awesome, I think it would be great to post the evidence for evaluation, Yobobkjojo!

 

[DMB_1]

I mean, skills that are exclusive to the individual demons (per se, "Die for Me!" for Alice, "Morning Star" for Lucifer, etcetera) should be listed in the "Notable Attacks and Techniques" section.

Unless they involve game mechanics, of course.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I also may or may not have found something which implies that demon skills like Drain and Reflect are higher dimensional

What is it.

 

[Elizhaa]

I mean, skills that are exclusive to the individual demons (per se, "Die for Me!" for Alice, "Morning Star" for Lucifer, etcetera) should be listed in the "Notable Attacks and Techniques" section.
Unless they involve game mechanics, of course.

I agree with this point

 

[Yobo_Blue]

It probably only applies to 2-A and up. Give me a sec.

Also, I agree with adding racial skills, but I was more talking about general Demon fusion

 

[Elizhaa]

It probably only applies to 2-A and up. Give me a sec.
Also, I agree with adding racial skills, but I was more talking about general Demon fusion

Take your time!

If the fusion system work like "Demon Whispers" skills in SMT IV, I think it is fair

 

[Elizhaa]

Flynn's updated was apply;

2-B key is 2-A since he defeated Lilith who is now 2-A. At least 2-A is now 2-A, likely High 2-A as he defeated Lucifer has the rating.

 

[Jaakuace44]

Thor could use an update.

Also, might I suggest we have two keys for him? His Nocturne incarnation is clearly more powerful than his other ones. Not even strictly as gameplay thing, since he was canonically able to do battle with a Mid- to End- game Demi-fiend without getting stomped (at least not completely stomped; he's able to survive a number of attacks from him). He should also be somewhat comparable to the Archangels.

Do we know what tier the Four Devas are, currently?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

The Four Devas have a 2-A feat in Devil Survivor.

 

[Elizhaa]

If he has 2-A feat, I think his tiering rating should be updated

 

[Jaakuace44]

Okay, then Thor should perhaps qualify for 2-A. He outranks each of them, being listed as the strongest Kishin in just about every game he's been in, with SMTI being the sole exception.

Unless there are any objections, anyway. Wouldn't want to be too hasty.

 

[Jaakuace44]

I also want to stress that we make that 2-A tiering a separate key if he does. It would really mess with the scaling on SMTI if we didn't, I imagine.

Something like 2-C | At least 2-C, likely 2-A (Shin Megami Tensei I | Other incarnations)

 

[Jaakuace44]

I've noticed we don't have pages for either Ahriman or Noah. It would be cool to get some more demons registered into the Versus Compendium. Are we allowed to create pages for new demons?

 

[DMB_1]

You can, as long as they don't have "too ambiguous" shapes (Mara, Tiamat, etcetera).

Legit, the SMT Wikia has those, yet it's perfectly fine for Fandom, but since this Wiki is much more popular, and we gotta keep it PG13, it would be best to avoid it.

 

[Jaakuace44]

There shouldn't be anything wrong with Ahri and Noah. They're basically clean.

 

[Extreme123dz]

F"$ng ******..., they dont know how to appreciate the art of Kazuma and related, it is unforgivable that cant show Mara in all its splendor here e.e

 

[Jaakuace44]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ahriman_(Shin_Megami_Tensei) Here he is. Make any corrections you see fit.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

BTW, our DeSu 2 profiles are really bad

 

[DMB_1]

... I was about to slightly improve that profile, and even adding his first from, but it was immediately locked...

 

[Jaakuace44]

Tried correcting a few things (mainly regarding the tier; Baal is only listed as 2-A), and accidentally messed up the text formatting. That'll need to be fixed.

 

[Elizhaa]

I locked it. Currently, there are no categories. the powers and category are not in the source editor.

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Abstract Existence (Type 2), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Higher-Dimensional Existence, Immortality (Types 1, 3, and 8. Can return to The Axiom to reform indefinitely), Regenerationn (High-Godly. Capable of regenerating after being erased from nonexistence alongside the entire multiverse across past, present and future), Acausality (Type 4; Demons are naturally born in a world beyond time and do not perceive it linearly, being completely unaffected by the collapse of the multiverse across past, present and future), Non-Corporeal (As a Demon, Ahriman is not a physical being, and is a thought-form made of pure information and data), Reality Warping, Space-Time Manipulation (Demon Gods infinitely inferior to Ahriman are capable of creating entire Universes as extensions of their beings in the Expanse, and freely manipulating them as they please), Life and Death Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Soul Manipulation (Demons are capable of destroying souls with normal attacks, as well as absorbing them and collecting the populations of entire cities to turn them into energy), Fate Manipulation (Far superior to beings such as the Norns, whose influence over Time and Fate bounds even Demon Gods who exist beyond all of time and space. Scaling from Maya, whose illusions are capable of bringing forth entire futures into existence), Illusion Creation, Mind Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation (Should scale from Zelenin, who is capable of brainwashing most of the the population of the entire Planet into mindlessly worshipping God, while purging them of any and all thoughts not related to this, and of erasing the very urges to fight and do war from hearts of all Humans), Energy Manipulation, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Teleportation, Shapeshifting, Elemental Manipulation (Fire, Lightning, Ice, and Wind), Nonexistence Erasure (Scaling from characters of similar power who are capable of destroying nothingness and nonexistent beings with nothing but normal attacks, as well as forcibly unmaking individuals and erasing them from existence; as God of the Void, he should easily have control over the Void), Existence Erasure (His awakening alone was enough to do this to Yuko Takao), Power Nullification, Resistance Negation (Capable of casting Almighty Attacks which bypass all magical defenses and innate resistances), Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation


End-Game Demi-fiend justification should move to Mid-Game where he is 2-A

If you guys still want to help, I an unlock the profiles

 

[Jaakuace44]

The version of Demi-Fiend Ahriman fights is End-game, so I went with that. Also, sorry for forgetting to add categories. I'm... actually a bit new to creating pages, embarrassingly enough.

Edit: Never mind. I forgot End-game meant he fought Kagutsuchi. My bad!

 

[DMB_1]

Yes, for now, keep the new profiles being made (Ahriman and Noah) unlocked, as I'd like to improve them slightly.

Also, by the way, why don't Demons have Magic listed as their abilities? the majority of their attacks/skills are based on magic.

 

[Elizhaa]

The version of Demi-Fiend Ahriman fights is End-game, so I went with that.
Also, sorry for forgetting to add categories. I'm... actually a bit new to creating pages, embarrassingly enough.

End Game Demi is At least 2-A where he fought Kagutsuchi (Shin Megami Tensei)

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes, for now, keep the new profiles being made (Ahriman and Noah) unlocked, as I'd like to improve them slightly.
Also, by the way, why don't Demons have Magic listed as their abilities? the majority of their attacks/skills are based on magic.

True. I think this was overlook. I guess I will add it to their profiles.

 

[Jaakuace44]

Yeah, I only just remembered that. Many of the skills I put on Ahriman come from Uriel's page (namely, abilities common to demons at or above Uriel's level). There's probably a few others missing from it as well.

 

[Jaakuace44]

I probably should have left the page creation to someone else. I ended up making a huge mess of things. Really am sorry about all this.

 

[Elizhaa]

Question: Demi-Fiend is At least 2-A because he fought Metatron (Shin Megami Tensei) and Kagutsuchi (Shin Megami Tensei) who have the rating. Beelzebub (Shin Megami Tensei) is included in his justification for At least 2-A : At least Multiverse level+ (Can defeat Kagutsuchi. Superior to both Beelzebub and Metatro)

I think Beelzebub would be At least 2-A too since he includes in the justification and he is also vastly stronger than all the combined might of the Archangels, below Lucifer, who are 2-A

 

[Jaakuace44]

Changed End-game to Mid-game.