Some thoughts on Ichibē

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Hello! I've been reviewing Ichibē's profile and noticed a few inconsistencies in how some of his abilities are listed. I believe some of them deserve a closer reassessment.

1. About his Social Influencing​

According to the wiki’s own definition:

Social Influencing is the ability to influence a person emotionally, psychologically, and mentally in general, either to gain an advantage or to make them perform certain tasks. This ability can take various forms, including deception, fear instigation, seduction, coercion, etc.”

It was also noted that, while not directly combat-oriented, this ability can be used to demoralize opponents, manipulate their thinking, stall for time, extract vital information, or shift their strategic approach.

However, this ability was attributed to Ichibē due to:

• Telepathy & Social Influencing (Ichibē can telepathically communicate with a person and can use this power to convince someone to say his name so that he can be revived)

The use of the word “convince” here seems to be an exaggeration. What actually happens in the scene is simply a request made by Ichibē to Ichigo. He asks, and Ichigo freely chooses to comply.

However, none of that occurs in this instance. There’s no sign of emotional or psychological manipulation on Ichibē’s part. Ichigo is not convinced against his will, nor is he led to act in a way that contradicts his own values or reasoning.

In fact, Ichigo could have simply ignored the request — but he consciously chose to respond to it. Therefore, by the wiki’s own definition, there is no psychological manipulation or mental warfare involved. It’s just a request that was fulfilled.

In this way, labeling this as “Social Influencing” appears inappropriate and should be removed from Ichibē’s profile.

2. Other relevant things:​

Limited Time Manipulation, Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure & Immortality Negation (Type 4; With Futen Taisatsuryo, Ichibe gathers and consumes all of the darkness within his surroundings and performs a ritual to create a mausoleum of darkness. By stealing 100 nights from the Soul Society's future, Ichibe uses the darkness on someone's person to crush them into nothingness, destroying them so utterly that they cannot even reincarnate)

That said, I don’t think this scene justifies assigning Type 4 Immortality Negation to Ichibē. The type 4 Immortality involves the ability to exist through mechanisms like resurrection or reincarnation — so in order to negate it, a character must directly interfere with or disable those mechanisms.

But in this case, there’s no indication that Ichibē is targeting or nullifying any immortality system. What actually happens is existential erasure. The target is wiped out so completely that nothing remains — therefore, if nothing is left, there is nothing that can reincarnate.

In basic terms:

Ichibē erases the target → the target no longer exists → the target cannot reincarnate.

This doesn't mean Ichibē bypassed or disabled immortality — it just means the target was destroyed beyond recovery, and therefore couldn't revive. The inability to reincarnate is a side effect of erasure, not evidence of targeted immortality negation.

So, assigning Immortality Negation (Type 4) to Ichibē based on this context is inaccurate. The ability demonstrates existential erasure, not an explicit negation of resurrection systems. This classification should also be removed.


Peace and Love!

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Disagree.

For Social Influencing it has nothing to do with psychological manipulation or mental warfare. This can easily fall under one of the examples listed such as

Social Position and Reputation: Characters who possess a high level of position in society or are heavily respected in their setting, which allows them to control an individual or a group of people. In cases where a character in question with high position or reputation is being used by another person behind the shadows, the character doesn't qualify for having this kind of influencing.

And as the note states its not limited to just the examples listed on the page to gain this ability.

Disagree with type 4 Negation as well. The most basic feature of Blewch is the cycle of reincarnation. When someone dies, Soul Reapers send their souls into the cycle of souls. Its an endless cycle of reincarnation. There is nothing wrong with Ichibei having this since he states that this move specifically will erase you the point where you can't even enter the soul cycle. This is complete and utter destruction of oneself in the context of Bleach.

Just because its EE doesn't mean they're all scaled the same. For example Yamamoto has EE and his doesn't remove you from the cycle of reincarnation lol.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Disagree.

For Social Influencing it has nothing to do with psychological manipulation or mental warfare. This can easily fall under one of the examples listed such as

Social Position and Reputation: Characters who possess a high level of position in society or are heavily respected in their setting, which allows them to control an individual or a group of people. In cases where a character in question with high position or reputation is being used by another person behind the shadows, the character doesn't qualify for having this kind of influencing.

And as the note states its not limited to just the examples listed on the page to gain this ability.

You do realize that Ichibē didn’t coerced Ichigo to say his name, right? He actually just asked him to. So, there wasn’t any coercion or anything like that to justify calling it Social Influence — it was literally just a request from him to Ichigo.

Disagree with type 4 Negation as well. The most basic feature of Blewch is the cycle of reincarnation. When someone dies, Soul Reapers send their souls into the cycle of souls. Its an endless cycle of reincarnation. There is nothing wrong with Ichibei having this since he states that this move specifically will erase you the point where you can't even enter the soul cycle. This is complete and utter destruction of oneself in the context of Bleach.

You’d be right if that cycle of reincarnation still worked even when someone’s erased from existence. But that’s not the case — they only reincarnate because they die, not because they’re erased from existence.

Just because its EE doesn't mean they're all scaled the same. For example Yamamoto has EE and his doesn't remove you from the cycle of reincarnation lol.

I’ve got some thoughts on this too, but anyway… has he actually erased anyone with that? — and by the way, why are you so sure that his doesn't remove you from the cycle of reincarnation as well??

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

You do realize that Ichibē didn’t order Ichigo to say his name, right? He actually just asked him to. So, there wasn’t any coercion or anything like that to justify calling it Social Influence — it was literally just a request from him to Ichigo.

Dude, Ichigo is not the only person that can revive him. He can just order his soldiers to say his name or any Shinigami and it wouldn't be any different.

You’d be right if that cycle of reincarnation still worked even when someone’s erased from existence. But that’s not the case — they only reincarnate because they die, not because they’re erased from existence.

I don't understand what you’re saying here. Ichibei verbatim states his erasure will not allow you to reincarnate. That is all that matters regarding this ability.

I’ve got some thoughts on this too, but anyway… has he actually erased anyone with that? — and by the way, why are you so sure that his doesn't remove you from the cycle of reincarnation as well??

Because his isn't stated too? Why would I assume that Yamamoto’s EE also does this based off nothing? Only Ichibei has that statement.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm fine with removing the Social Influence from his profile: In the specific example given, Ichibe isn't convincing Ichigo to do anything here. It's just him requesting that Ichigo says his name, and Ichigo obliges this request and says his name. Now, it is logically possible that given his position, he could convince others who are specifically enlisted within the Soul Society to do his bidding - However, we never see him do this, and when we assign abilities to people, we usually need a stronger basis outside of what is theoretically possible given a person's capabilities. It's why we don't, for example: assume Ichibe could transmutate someone into water by classifying them as water, and give him Transmutation because of this, despite his ability logically having the capacity to do so. We need actual, substantive indications. Not conclusions logically derivable from the text, alone.

As for the Immortality Negation point: I'll get to this point at a later time as I want to sit down and evaluate everything in depth again, before I provide an argument.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Dude, Ichigo is not the only person that can revive him. He can just order his soldiers to say his name or any Shinigami and it wouldn't be any different.

Well, now you’ve mentioned something I never claimed. But let’s go — we understand that his revival stems from the fact that someone must call his name — and for that to happen, he categorically needs to ask that specific person to say his name.

So, with that in mind, how would someone calling his name — Hyousube Ichibē — at his request be considered social influence? I’m not seeing it… he simply asks someone to call his name, and whether that person fulfills the request depends on their own will — not Ichibē’s.

I don't understand what you’re saying here. Ichibei verbatim states his erasure will not allow you to reincarnate. That is all that matters regarding this ability.

It seems you still don't really get the point. The relevant issue here isn't that Ichibē is interfering with the system — and thus disabling it functionally. It's that the target is being erased from existence.

As I already said — if nothing remains, then nothing can reincarnate — that's basic logic, man. Souls in Bleach only reincarnate because they die, not because they're erased from existence — as far as I know, they've never been put in such a situation to see if they could still reincarnate anyway.

Because his isn't stated too? Why would I assume that Yamamoto’s EE also does this based off nothing? Only Ichibei has that statement.

But the thing is, you don't need to assume that. It's a logical impossibility for someone to reincarnate if they've been erased from existence. Ichibē stating that doesn't change the fact that this effect is merely a consequence of existential erasure.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The OP is really nicely written

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Give me social influencing for asking someone to let me borrow their pencil and they lend me one.

 

[Deceived3596]

After delving into this again, and seeing the evidence from both sides, I find myself agreeing with the OP's conclusions. And my reasoning for this is contingent on understanding how the Cycle of Transmigration functions.

We know that Quincies mess with the Cycle of Transmigration by erasing Hollows from it, which causes imbalances that threaten the very cosmology of the verse. It's affecting it by specifically erasing the Souls of these Hollows - consequently resulting in them not being able to participate in the cycle anymore as they lack the necessary substance to do so.

If we have this prior knowledge of the act of erasing a Soul is what causes them to be unable to Reincarnate again, it logically follows that what Ichibe is doing is something similar to this - merely erasing someones' totality, which results in them losing substance within reality, and then results in them being unable to undergo Rebirth.

Now, I understand why someone would initially consider Ichibe's statement as being very direct given the wording used. But, if we have contextual support for an interpretation over the other, we should assume that statement is under that context instead of supposing a different, less supported one.

I still believe the other interpretation could be potentially true, that Ichibe is specifically limiting Yhwach from Reincarnating, that is external from its ability to erase someone, but I disagree with it being more likely to be true compared to other interpretation presented. And I don't believe the evidence is supportive enough to grant it a "Likely" or "Possibly" rating either.

 

[FinePoint]

These both seem like very logical changes, so I agree.

I do prefer when a profile focuses on the core abilities, and not every possible application of them.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

These both seem like very logical changes, so I agree.

I do prefer when a profile focuses on the core abilities, and not every possible application of them.

 

[Damage3245]

OP seems fine to me.

 

[Rutæhh]

agree with removing both.

the EE is just doing more than what the Type 4 can handle

 

[Nierre]

op looks good

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

So far, three staff members (@FinePoint, @Damage3245, and @Nierre) have already expressed satisfaction with the thread. And adding @Arc7Kuroi most recent thoughts, who also agreed based on my reasoning along with @Deceived3596, that makes the thread more acceptable. With that, the thread is concluded.

 

[FinePoint]

So far, three staff members (@FinePoint, @Damage3245, and @Nierre) have already expressed satisfaction with the thread. And adding @Arc7Kuroi most recent thoughts, who also agreed based on my reasoning along with @Deceived3596, that makes the thread more acceptable. With that, the thread is concluded.

Let us know when you've applied the changes.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Sounds good

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

Let us know when you've applied the changes.

The changes have been made. This thread can be closed.

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

By the way, Deceived, I was also planning to open a thread to remove the justifications for "Negation of Immortality" for the Quincies, but you ended up covering my entire line of reasoning in this analogy.

After delving into this again, and seeing the evidence from both sides, I find myself agreeing with the OP's conclusions. And my reasoning for this is contingent on understanding how the Cycle of Transmigration functions.

We know that Quincies mess with the Cycle of Transmigration by erasing Hollows from it, which causes imbalances that threaten the very cosmology of the verse. It's affecting it by specifically erasing the Souls of these Hollows - consequently resulting in them not being able to participate in the cycle anymore as they lack the necessary substance to do so.

If we have this prior knowledge of the act of erasing a Soul is what causes them to be unable to Reincarnate again, it logically follows that what Ichibe is doing is something similar to this - merely erasing someones' totality, which results in them losing substance within reality, and then results in them being unable to undergo Rebirth.

So, what now... is it still necessary to open a thread to remove it, even though you've already addressed everything?

 

[Deceived3596]

So, what now... is it still necessary to open a thread to remove it, even though you've already addressed everything?

It's ultimately up to your choosing. If you could get those other moderators to come back in and sign off on this, you should be able to remove it without the creation of another thread.

 

[MeiouHades]

Nice thoughts. Musta taken a lot of time to think 'em up

 

[Anypersonburnimagines]

It's ultimately up to your choosing. If you could get those other moderators to come back in and sign off on this, you should be able to remove it without the creation of another thread.

What do you guys think? Is it alright if I do it? @FinePoint, @Damage3245, and @Nierre.

 

[Deceived3596]

What do you guys think? Is it alright if I do it? @FinePoint, @Damage3245, and @Nierre.

Notifying them like this doesn't work. It only works if you're a Moderator. If you wish to actually contact them, so they can review your proposal, you'll have to go to their message walls and directly ask them yourself.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

No need to go to their walls for small changes, theyre in this thread, just quote them all in one post like this

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